Forum Topic: Is it Rape?

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Eddyking

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:03 PM

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Which ones constitute rape?

Scenario A: A woman goes to the local bar alone, has a number of drinks while flirting with a man there, and agrees, intoxicated, to go to a motel with him. At the motel the two fool around, making out and engaging in oral sex. The woman provides a condom, but as the man gets ready to have intercourse with her, she finally passes out from intoxication. The man, also drunk, but fully aware of her state, decides to proceed with intercourse anyway. Is it rape?

Scenario B: Two young guys who have been going out for awhile, and they're both a bit smitten. One of them is new to dating and wants to take things slow, and they have had explicit conversations about what is and isn't okay at this point. In spite of that, guy A, who has much more experience, gets really heated while they're fooling around and ends up holding down guy B and performing oral sex on him until he orgasms, though guy B has said this is past his comfort zone and tells him to stop. Afterward, guy A apologizes but says he was "caught up in the moment" and he knew that it would make guy B feel good if he'd just loosen up and let him do it. Is it rape?

Scenario C: Two women in a long-term relationship are living together. They have company over for dinner, and everyone has enough wine that they decide it's best to stay the night. After retiring to bed, woman A tries to initiate sex, but woman B makes it clear that she is not in the mood. They start fighting (verbally) about it, and woman A gets louder and angrier, making physical threats. Woman B, afraid to be embarrassed in front of the house guests and have them witness her partner's bullying, gives in and allows woman A to have sex with her, though she doesn't participate. Is it rape?

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simple-but-sandy

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:07 PM

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All scenarios are rape, so you better find yourself a better defence council.

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blakemo

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:10 PM

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Rape:
1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

They all seem to be rape.

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AluminumNads

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:13 PM

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A: Not rape because they are both intoxicated. It doesn't make a difference who produced the condom
because of this.

B: Is rape because the guy DID say he didn't want his dick sucked, plain and simple.

C: Not rape because she DID consent eventually. However, I am sure something is wrong with it.

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InsertFunnyUserName

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:14 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:03 PM, Eddyking wrote: Scenario A:

Yes, because unconscious people can't consent regardless of what they said while they were still conscious unless the explicit agreement was "If I become unconscious, still continue."

Scenario B:

Yes. By holding him down, guy A is forcing sex on guy B, thus rape.

Scenario C: Two women in a long-term relationship are living together. They have company over for dinner, and everyone has enough wine that they decide it's best to stay the night. After retiring to bed, woman A tries to initiate sex, but woman B makes it clear that she is not in the mood. They start fighting (verbally) about it, and woman A gets louder and angrier, making physical threats. Woman B, afraid to be embarrassed in front of the house guests and have them witness her partner's bullying, gives in and allows woman A to have sex with her, though she doesn't participate. Is it rape?

Yes. It's not physical, but the woman is still being forced to have sex. The threat of embarrassment is a threat nonetheless.

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D3NTATUS

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:16 PM

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All are non-consensual or forced, and therefore rape. Scenario A is a bit of a loophole, but it's still intercourse without explicit consent from receiving end, so it's rape.


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AlphaCentauri

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:16 PM

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Yeah, it is all rape, and if the person wanted to could probably win a case.

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Chillee

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:17 PM

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I love how you put homosexual relations just to seem politically correct. You are truly the definition of a liberal.

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Timmy

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:18 PM

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Any sexual contact without Expressed Consent is usually rape. There are loopholes, of course, but that is a general rule of thumb.

At 9/27/09 04:03 PM, Eddyking wrote: Scenario A:

The drunk guy is aware that the woman is passed out and that she never gave express consent to have sex before passing out. Even if the woman doesn't say "No" doesn't mean she said "Yes".

Scenario B:

Clearly rape. It doesn't matter whether the rapist was "caught up in the moment" or "trying to break the ice" - if the person undergoing the sexual contact doesn't fully consent then it is rape.

Scenario C:

I would call this a gray area, simply because it is unclear whether the potential victim gave her consent for sex in order to end the argument. I feel like she would have said something like, "Ok Ok - just keep your voice down. We'll have sex."
If the potential rapist on the other hand said, "I will keep hollering and embarrassing you until you have sex with me," and her partner just acquiesced, then it might be deemed rape.

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citricsquid

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:22 PM

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InsertFunnyUserName

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:24 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:17 PM, Chillee wrote: I love how you put homosexual relations just to seem politically correct. You are truly the definition of a liberal.

Yeah, I was expecting there to be some tie-in between the scenarios and mention of homosexuality, but there wasn't.

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ChocEliteBar

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:26 PM

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Good lord, the first isn't rape but the other two are.


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Timmy

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:31 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:26 PM, ChocEliteBar wrote: Good lord, the first isn't rape but the other two are.

Dear god man. Having sex with a girl while she is passed out is clearly rape. What's wrong with you? D:

Personally, I don't even have sex with a drunk girl. If she wakes up with buyer's remorse and her blood alcohol level is elevated when they do the tests, I might as well start walking to prison.

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Conspiracy3

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:32 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:03 PM, Eddyking wrote: Which ones constitute rape?

Scenario A:

She wouldn't have provided a condom if she didn't consent to sex.

Scenario B:

Did the guy being held down tell the guy on top to stop? Unless you wan't to get into the trend of having to sign a contract before sex it isn't rape.


Scenario C:

She consented to it, and she wasn't under duress in any way. Why would you throw someone in prison for rape just because the partner was nervous about what someone else in a nearby room might think?


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Conspiracy3

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:34 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:31 PM, Timmy wrote:
At 9/27/09 04:26 PM, ChocEliteBar wrote: Good lord, the first isn't rape but the other two are.
Dear god man. Having sex with a girl while she is passed out is clearly rape. What's wrong with you? D:

Personally, I don't even have sex with a drunk girl. If she wakes up with buyer's remorse and her blood alcohol level is elevated when they do the tests, I might as well start walking to prison.

What if you were drunk too? Couldn't you argue to the court that she raped you?

What is it with our culture that thinks that only men can be rapists and only women can be victims?


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citricsquid

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:35 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:32 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote:
Scenario A:
She wouldn't have provided a condom if she didn't consent to sex.

She may have consented to sex while she was concious, but once she is unconscious she can't consent and therefore it is rape. Whether or not he'd get convicted, eh, but it definitely is rape in the legal sense of the word.


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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:36 PM

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Conspiracy3

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:44 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:35 PM, citricsquid wrote:
At 9/27/09 04:32 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote:
Scenario A:
She wouldn't have provided a condom if she didn't consent to sex.
She may have consented to sex while she was concious, but once she is unconscious she can't consent and therefore it is rape. Whether or not he'd get convicted, eh, but it definitely is rape in the legal sense of the word.

You need to provide consent, but you don't have to shout yes every three seconds during sex. If she said yes before they had sex then she consented.


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Timmy

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:51 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:34 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: What if you were drunk too? Couldn't you argue to the court that she raped you?

It doesn't matter how drunk/drugged up or insane you are - you will still be in the wrong here. And an unconscious girl is not going to rape you.

What is it with our culture that thinks that only men can be rapists and only women can be victims?

A woman's word will always win out over a man's word when it comes to rape cases. It's just where case history has led us.

At 9/27/09 04:44 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: You need to provide consent, but you don't have to shout yes every three seconds during sex. If she said yes before they had sex then she consented.

Not according to our legal system.

I think you are underestimating how easily it is to be convicted of rape in this country.

I don't care if the girl signs an affidavit before you go into the bedroom, stating that she wants to have sex. If she passes out before, or during, sex - then you have to stop or you are a rapist.

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citricsquid

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Posted at: 9/27/09 04:55 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:44 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: You need to provide consent, but you don't have to shout yes every three seconds during sex. If she said yes before they had sex then she consented.

So if she says "Yes let's have sex!" and then I punch her in the face and she becomes unconscious I'm only guilt of assault and not rape because she said yes to an entirely different act? An unconscious person cannot consent.


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KennyD

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Posted at: 9/27/09 05:00 PM

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yes.

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Eddyking

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Posted at: 9/28/09 10:22 AM

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At 9/27/09 04:17 PM, Chillee wrote: I love how you put homosexual relations just to seem politically correct. You are truly the definition of a liberal.

Well thank you, I try my best?

Anyone else got thoughts?

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zee666

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Posted at: 9/28/09 10:28 AM

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Stop, all this rape-talk is giving me a hardon!

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Asalraalaikum

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Posted at: 9/28/09 10:38 AM

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Scenario B and C, in A the woman would have sex anyways.

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Alphabit

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Posted at: 9/28/09 11:00 AM

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At 9/27/09 04:03 PM, Eddyking wrote: Which ones constitute rape?

Scenario A

I don't think it would constitute rape because the woman provided the condom knowing full well what was going to happen. There is no evidence of her not wanting the intercourse. Had she not given the guy the condom, then yes, it would have been rape because she wouldn't have expressed her intention to have sex with him.

Scenario B

It depends on whether that second guy stopped after he was told to do so. If he didn't then yes, I guess it is rape; but then again, that all depends on whether or not personB would like to press charges.

Scenario C

Not rape. Being publicly embarrassed doesn't constitute duress... Unless maybe that second girl explicitly threatens the first girl...

I guess this reminds me of analogy about the corrupt police officer... Picture this:
You are driving over the limit and under the influence; a police officer pulls you over and is about to give you a fine; if you tell him "I'll give you $100 right now if you don't penalize me" then if that police officer is not corrupt, then you will be penalized for bribery on top of your DUI charge.

But if you go about it differently and say "It would be nice if we could settle this on the spot while looking through your wallet" then that police officer cannot prosecute you for bribery because it
s really poor evidence; maybe you were just looking for your licence, maybe by 'settle on the spot' you meant 'let's be quick about this' etc... So in that case you avoid jail and if the officer is corrupt and they get where you're going with your statement, then you might get off the hook without the risk!

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wreckages

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Posted at: 9/28/09 11:03 AM

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they're all fucking rape.


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RoxskyDevil

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Posted at: 9/28/09 11:08 AM

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what is rape? XD all of this is rape of course


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Idocreating

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Posted at: 9/28/09 01:10 PM

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All are technically rape, although in a court of law, Scenario A would be nigh impossible to prove as the male could simply claim the woman was too drunk to remember the intercourse, rather than she was asleep.


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Jercurpac

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Posted at: 9/28/09 01:16 PM

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At 9/27/09 04:13 PM, AluminumNads wrote: A: Not rape because they are both intoxicated. It doesn't make a difference who produced the condom
because of this.

Thanks bro', you've cleared a lot up for me. I can't wait to try out this defense in court one day. "Your honor, I can't be held responsible for any actions I may have committed upon the passed out woman. I was pretty fucking wasted myself."

Also works equally well in cases of murder.

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Mismo

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Posted at: 9/28/09 01:20 PM

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Scenario A: Rape

Scenario B: Didn't B gave te blowjob? The one how was against having sex?

Scenario C: It wouldn't hold up in a court but it's kind of rape.


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