How would you deal with the BNP?

[AKACCMIOF]

It's a large issue here in Britain, the British National Party, a constitutionally racist gaining support as disillusioned white working class voters turn against the New Labour/ Conservative (Both private schooled middle/ upper class parties) parties and go for the only party which they feel is saying something about Islam which they agree with. I'll say it now: I'm no Islamaphobe. I've had issues, I've dealt with them, I understand whats what, and I read the Koran. It's Islamism that's the issue. An idealism anti-semitic and repressive in nature. But due to such a large misunderstanding every remotely Anti- Islamist party is hijacked by a bunch of, to cut to the chase, twats.

So what would you do? Please, not to alienate, but keep it secular.

[ArmouredGRIFFON]

Qu'ran*

I'd just ignore the BNP, I don't think they'll ever be in a serious position of power.

[Sheizenhammer]

I ignore them, just like every other troll organisation.

Even on the ever-so-slim-chance that they do get any real power, their complete lack of knowledge about how to run a country will ensure they don't keep it for long.

[Austrian-Mats]

I guess the Tories should consider the problems with immigration Britain is facing a little more.
Here in Austria it's pretty much the same... the FPÖ is gaining huge support among voters, becaus it's the only party that even mentions Islam, and the fears the population is having considering it's potential dangers - the situation here is, however, far, faaaar away form the severity in Britain. You hardly see any of these "letterbox ladies" around here.
Although I wouldn't consider the FPÖ rassistic - it's even getting massive support from immigrants from eastern europe, and knows that - it's agenda is somewhat against immigration. I haven't seen much of the BNP so far, but they seem more extreme to me.
Anyways... as long as other parties keep ignoring the themes "islam" and "immigration" in a politically correct way, parties such as the BNP will gain voters.

Oh, and here's a nice Pat Condell video concerning the situation in Britain and a bit about the BNP.

[morefngdbs]

At 9/27/09 06:48 PM, Austrian-Mats wrote: Oh, and here's a nice Pat Condell video concerning the situation in Britain and a bit about the BNP.

;;;
I actually agree with Pat. I believe that if you come to my Country of Canada, its because you are tired or unhappy with where you persently reside...& that's fine come here & join Canada & become a Canadian.
But don't come here in my face & tell me we need sharia law & that women need to be covered, that swimming pools for the public will be closed on certain days of the week so that muslim women can use them ...fuck that. You came here...blend into the population like others have who've come here before you & for those so called politically correct who seem to believe we need to bend over backwards & do everything we can to change our society so these people can feel more at home ...
I have a simpler solution, pack your bags again & go back where you came from !
You will then be right at home & those of us here who chose to live here will be happy & you'll be back where everything is running along the lines of midevil Europe, when it comes to a persons rights & freedoms.
So that will make you happy (but I doubt it, because narrow minded uncompromising persons can never be happy)
I know that this isn't true for all Muslims or persons of any religion, but for those who come here & believe we need to change to accommodate your beliefs ,language, or dress style. Save yourself the trip & stay where you are .
That would make me very happy.

[Jon-86]

At 9/27/09 08:46 PM, morefngdbs wrote: I know that this isn't true for all Muslims or persons of any religion, but for those who come here & believe we need to change to accommodate your beliefs ,language, or dress style. Save yourself the trip & stay where you are .

It isn't true for any Muslims. The only people who think you should change what you do to "accommodate" people, are politicians who want to win votes.

If their are a community of Muslims who build a Mosque to pray, how dose that involve you changing anything or going out of your way? The only people who really are obligated by law to make small concessions are employers. As their employees have rights and they are bound by them. For example, an employer cant fire a catholic for taking Sunday off to go to mass. Same as they can't fire a Muslim for taking a small break to pray.

You as an individual don't need to change or do anything! Thats just BNP propaganda. Don't be fooled by it. When the BNP say "we need to do this or their taking away that right" question one of them in public and ask them to cite the law that is actually their proving their point or claim.

[Lokireloaded]

VOTE FOR THE LIB DEMS!!!!!

only reason in particular i can think of is that you know they wont really actually be elected.

and think about that tax on houses worth over such and such an amount!

[Ledgey]

It isn't true for any Muslims. The only people who think you should change what you do to "accommodate" people, are politicians who want to win votes.

There is undoubtably a splinter group of Muslims who want to bring in sharia law into part of British law. Though these are an extreme minority, they do exist. For my RE course we had Muslim talkers come in all the time, and there were a few who tried explaining why it should be brought in. sfsdgs

Anyway, I'm split on the BNP. They've obviously a racist group but silencing them would be wrong. And Labour are pushing through a ton of letters telling me not to vote BNP, when I'm clearly not going to, since I'm a bloody member. I reckon many major parties are just using scare tactics and are over amplifying the BNP threat, taking light off the recent MP scandal and the economy.

Even so, I definitely don't agree with the BNP as a group, not allowing black members is a clear example of how they haven't 'modernised'. But it's always interesting to hear what they have to say, as disgusting or hilarious it is. Watch Question Time on the 12th (I think) where they're pitting Jack Straw against, I think, Nick Griffin. It's someone from the BNP anyway. Should be highly interesting.

[AapoJoki]

At 9/27/09 06:48 PM, Austrian-Mats wrote: Oh, and here's a nice Pat Condell video concerning the situation in Britain and a bit about the BNP.

Pat Condell points out exactly the reasons why I stopped voting left too.

[Kev-o]

It's interesting how many people say "ignore them", when they're clearly a fascist party with incredibly dangerous views. In fact, that sort of attitude is why Hitler was able to come to power. The BNP need to be physically, and politically confronted. Fascism has to be destroyed at the root, and the spread of their hatred needs to be contained. The people they're winning over need to be presented other alternatives to social/economic problems. Those alternatives will not be found within any political party.
In short, put them in the fucking hospital.

[AKACCMIOF]

Alright! I'm really pleased with the entirely constructive response. The main issue I have with this problem is that, like Jon 86 pointed out correctly in my view, so much of the Islamic community IS trying and succeeding in many ways to assimilate with British culture. In fact I read in the Metro that there are a higher percent of patriotic (for Britain) Muslims than non- Muslims. However, the BNP may be a fascist group, but they're picking up on the British anger at Islamo- Fascism started by the radical thinkers of 1930s Egypt, whereby every man woman and child in every nation MUST CONFROM to every aspect of the purist interpretation of the Koran/ Qu'ran, no change, no freedom. Though this number is microscopic, we have seen the disproportionate pain they inflict.

The issue here is that, like Austrain Mats says, no-one will confront them creating hysteria in the minds of the misinformed, alienated and paranoid. And like Kev-O says we have to confront the BNP one way or another, but with so much ammo what the hell can we do to get the white British working class back? I don't know, but we have to have faith Jack Straw will rip Nick several new ones.

Finally, I'd like to say that whilst there are some real Islamist nuts out there, they aren't the only ones Nick Griffin and crew are taking on.
They have links with groups such as Combat 18 and National Front. They are scum. They are the only "party" to have prominent members in modern days become nail bombers, supporters of domestic violence and photographs of pulling the Nazi salutPr

[morefngdbs]

At 9/27/09 08:54 PM, Jon-86 wrote:

At 9/27/09 08:46 PM, morefngdbs wrote: but for those who come here & believe we need to change to accommodate your beliefs ,language, or dress style. Save yourself the trip & stay where you are .

It isn't true for any Muslims. The only people who think you should change what you do to "accommodate" people, are politicians who want to win votes.

If their are a community of Muslims who build a Mosque to pray, how dose that involve you changing anything or going out of your way?

;;;
Your WRONG ! ! !
I live outside of Halifax & a couple of years ago there was a problem with a local public swimming pool.
Seems someone got the idea that Muslim women wanted to swim but didn't want anyone especially men to see them swimming. They wanted a public swim times for muslim women ,so they can socialize, with out nonmuslim men or muslim men able to see them.

Well that went over like a lead balloon !
people were pissed off that a public pool paid for out of the money from everyones taxes, would have to give up certain slots of time to accommodate these women. Local politicians felt it was the right thing to do.
The majority of the rest of the public said FUCK YOU ! ! !

THe end result was the public swimming remained open FOR THE PUBLIC WHO PAID FOR IT. The Muslims were told there were time slots available to RENT POOL TIME, just like swim clubs & diving clubs do so they can practice their sports as well.
You want something special you pay for it ,like anyone else, muslims attempted to try to put forward that they were being discriminated against, so what, does that mean for years we've been discriminating swimming clubs, diving clubs ,swimming lesson etc ?
No there is designated times for PUBLIC (THAT'S SUPPOSE TO BE ANYONE !) that can come into the pool & go for a swim. by giving up any of these slots to a special interest group, was unfair.
Plus if these people were truely trying to, as they say, become good neighbors ,they should have just gone in & went swimming just like everyone else...but oh no, muslims are special...not in my eyes they're not !
Lets not even go into them attempting to have sharia law inacted in Ontario .... don't come here pissing down my back & tell me Its only bosses that have to make concessions...I can tell the difference between rain & piss, pal !

[AKACCMIOF]

FingDbs: I'll agree. Some Muslim's are completely idiotic. Same for every religion. But the minorities get the piss bottled and thrown by the authorities. Appeasement, it is said, is feeding a monster hoping it will eat you last.

Christian's have campaigned against the legality of abortion, alcohol, adultery and free scientific discussion when the years are added up. It just takes a good secular authority to stop the insanity.

[Jon-86]

At 9/28/09 03:38 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 9/27/09 08:54 PM, Jon-86 wrote:

At 9/27/09 08:46 PM, morefngdbs wrote: but for those who come here & believe we need to change to accommodate your beliefs ,language, or dress style. Save yourself the trip & stay where you are .

It isn't true for any Muslims. The only people who think you should change what you do to "accommodate" people, are politicians who want to win votes.

If their are a community of Muslims who build a Mosque to pray, how dose that involve you changing anything or going out of your way?

;;;
Your WRONG ! ! !

Look instead of throwing a hissy fit like most people do when their local authority do something don't don't like, lodge an objection! If enough people support the objection then you win.

For your specific example of Muslim men wanting a certain day when only women are allowed to use a public pool, then its obvious that since everyone pays for it everyone should be able to use it whenever they want.

You have taken a request made by a religious group (a reasonable request given their beliefs) and turned that into something you feel you can base your notion of "send them back home if they don't like ma country" which is nothing more than discrimination. Did it ever occur to you that maybe these Muslims could have been born in Canada? Theirs nothing stopping any Canadian following Islam, its their own personal choice.

Just be happy that you live in a county where their is a local authority and you can lodge objections and the majority will have their say. Compared to some of those African countries where priests and nuns get killed for believing in Jesus and running their church or nunnery.

So what is your problem? Are you against Islam? Are you against immigrants? Are you just not clued up on how things work in a democratic society and dnot know how to make an objection?

[Jon-86]

At 9/27/09 09:22 PM, Ledgey wrote: There is undoubtably a splinter group of Muslims who want to bring in sharia law into part of British law.

To clear this Islamic law thing up again. The introduction of Islamic (sharia) law into the UK will have ZERO effect on you! You will not be bound by it in any way. It will not effect you in any way. What it will mean if introduced is an option for Muslims.

For example, say a case of adultery is brought to court and the man or woman got caught cheating they may want the case to be judged under sharia law! Note the important point here....this is only if 'both' sides agree to the use of sharia law for the court proceedings. Their is already such a court for Jewish people and their has been for a hundred years or so in the UK, yet nobody says anything about that! Thats all it is, nothing more.

Tell me why you even care if it is introduced if your not a Muslim and theirs always the option to have a trial under Scottish/English law if that particualr person objects to a court hearing under Islamic law.

Even so, I definitely don't agree with the BNP as a group, not allowing black members is a clear example of how they haven't 'modernised'. But it's always interesting to hear what they have to say, as disgusting or hilarious it is. Watch Question Time on the 12th (I think) where they're pitting Jack Straw against, I think, Nick Griffin. It's someone from the BNP anyway. Should be highly interesting.

I heard it was the 22nd but aye, it is Straw vs Griffin. Hopeful Straw has done his homework and tears Griffin apart. "Define a person of native British stock Mr Griffin, what dose that entail?" lol

[morefngdbs]

At 9/28/09 03:52 PM, AKACCMIOF wrote: FingDbs: I'll agree.

;;;
once again for the record, my username is a joke...from several years ago in a religious site many had names like "Heavenly Believer", "True Christian" yada yada yada...I picked MORE FuN GoD BlesS, which I eventually shortened to the letters as you see them. I have had all kinds of 'fun' sayings mostly with 'fuck' in them as well as lots with 'balls' or 'donkey balls' (i kind of find that one amusing) but anyway!

Christian's have campaigned against the legality of abortion, alcohol, adultery and free scientific discussion when the years are added up. It just takes a good secular authority to stop the insanity.

;;;
I'm about as non religious as you can get, got no problem with those who believe in god, gods , or goddess's. As long as their belief doesn't get in my way. So if you want to go to your little club house dressed a certain way whichever day & or time is 'in your opinion' the 'right' time to worship your god ...fine by me, but only as long as I don't have to be bothered by it .
Take your unprovable theories and shove 'em where the sun rarely if ever gets to shine. So please don't think I'm just picking on muslims, I dislike all of them (religions) equally.

I just think that there should only be one legal system, & no church of any type should have any say in it.
I believe that the laws should apply to all , so if I can't go into school with a knife, you can't carry your ceremonial dagger either !
If i can't mask myself & go into a store or bank or drive...then neither should anyone else & I see no reason for exceptions.
If nailing an image of a man nailed to a cross somehow isn't idol worship , I don't see it that way, & it makes you happy... whatever floats your boat.
They should be allowed to have their special clubs/building where they can all go do whatever they seem to think gets gods attention & allows them to face another day knowing they're GOING TO DIE SOMETIME SOON
, BUT AT LEAST THEY'RE GOING TO HEAVEN ! While they all look at people like myself & take comfort that 'I'm going to hell" but they'll be saved by an invisible, never seen, or heard or spoken to by anyone except the mentally infirm & several old dead guy's who were dehydrated & hungry in the desert hundreds if not thousands of years ago.
Great... isn't that nice for them.

I just want to see something done so that absolutely none of them are allowed to have anything to do with the political process, that they aren't allowed to try & form special interest groups or campaigns where they attempt to inflict their (IMO ) stupid prejudices , & religious practices on anyone else.
I also want to see them taxed, if god doesn't like that...god can get ahold of the various revenue tax offices in the different countries around the world & ask for a dispensation. Personally I believe if God does contact them...they should probably restore their tax free status, if he doesn't. then our governments will have a large new revenue stream ;)

[Ledgey]

To clear this Islamic law thing up again. The introduction of Islamic (sharia) law into the UK will have ZERO effect on you! You will not be bound by it in any way. It will not effect you in any way. What it will mean if introduced is an option for Muslims.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree. As long as it is only religiously binding, I really don't mind if it's introduced. Whilst I am very tolerant, I'm also a secularist and believe that noone should be imprisoned in Great Britain for something that they can be lashed for in Saudi Arabia.

For example, say a case of adultery is brought to court and the man or woman got caught cheating they may want the case to be judged under sharia law! Note the important point here....this is only if 'both' sides agree to the use of sharia law for the court proceedings. Their is already such a court for Jewish people and their has been for a hundred years or so in the UK, yet nobody says anything about that! Thats all it is, nothing more.

Lol I'm currently writing an essay on the Bet Din (Jewish Court).

But anyway, you misunderstood me. I was simply replying to your claim that no Muslims want to change the way we live, but there are some who want to make Sharia Law legally binding. It should not be (like the Bet Din isn't) but I don't mind if they introduce it in their own courts, as long as they maintain human rights to the West's standards.

It may not be a direct threat to myself, but if introducing it to override British law is an aim of some, then I'd have to object to it.

Tell me why you even care if it is introduced if your not a Muslim and theirs always the option to have a trial under Scottish/English law if that particualr person objects to a court hearing under Islamic law.

If it's legally binding and people are being subject to it against their decision, then it is a gross violation of human rights and the right to free religion. Otherwise I don't oppose it if it were set up like the Bet Din, in which case I'd support it if the Muslim community wanted it.

I heard it was the 22nd but aye, it is Straw vs Griffin. Hopeful Straw has done his homework and tears Griffin apart. "Define a person of native British stock Mr Griffin, what dose that entail?" lol

Oh yeah, you're right it is the 22nd. :3

[Jon-86]

At 9/28/09 08:02 PM, Ledgey wrote: If it's legally binding and people are being subject to it against their decision, then it is a gross violation of human rights and the right to free religion. Otherwise I don't oppose it if it were set up like the Bet Din, in which case I'd support it if the Muslim community wanted it.

As far as I know this is all Muslims are asking for. And their you go, that's the clear way to go about it. Bet Din is the example of a working system. I see no possible counter argument that someone can make for Islamic law to be implemented differently. Base it on the existing way the Jewish courts are setup.

If it ever came to it thats the campaign people should fight. Thats the point that should be made. No need to "send them home if they don't like it" give that group the option of a compromise. You probably agree. But just making a point to the people who are in favour of deporting their fellow citizens.

[AapoJoki]

At 9/28/09 06:26 PM, Jon-86 wrote: For your specific example of Muslim men wanting a certain day when only women are allowed to use a public pool, then its obvious that since everyone pays for it everyone should be able to use it whenever they want.

They CAN use it whenever they want. There is no "No Muslims allowed" sign at the pool, they're perfectly welcome to use it at the same as everyone else. The fact that they cannot wear traditional swimming wear, or even look at them, is a restriction placed by their RELIGION, not by the society. It's their problem, so they deal with it.

If you have a swimming pool that's open, for instance, 6 days a week, and one of the days is reserved for Muslims, then that's discrimination against all non-Muslims. The pool would open 5 days for everyone, INCLUDING Muslims, and then one day for Muslims ONLY.

You have taken a request made by a religious group (a reasonable request given their beliefs)

No, it's not a reasonable request, it's an outrageous one. If you have neurotic, superstitious fantasies, like religious beliefs then that's your business. It's not up to us to accommodate and encourage them while compromising equal rights.

Muslim swimming pool turns are pure segregation, in its worst, most disgusting form.

[Ledgey]

As far as I know this is all Muslims are asking for. And their you go, that's the clear way to go about it. Bet Din is the example of a working system. I see no possible counter argument that someone can make for Islamic law to be implemented differently. Base it on the existing way the Jewish courts are setup.

I've spoken to others who want iit to be interpreted in British law, albeit an extreme minority will want this. But yeah, just don't go telling them it's based on the Jewish courts... heh. :3

If it ever came to it thats the campaign people should fight. Thats the point that should be made. No need to "send them home if they don't like it" give that group the option of a compromise. You probably agree. But just making a point to the people who are in favour of deporting their fellow citizens.

The BNP and general racists never comprimise. It's always "dey took our jawbs". I had an argument with some people in my politics class who were adament that immigrants should always be put second on the National Health Service. I'm not saying they're racist, but it's such a bleak view to have...

[Austrian-Mats]

Well, I don't believe that in ANY european country there should be the possibility for ANY medieval doctrine to get its own courts.

Well, already a year ago the humble Pat Condell had made a video about Sharia law in Britain, which got flagged, banned, uplaoded hundreds of times and reinstalled by youtube.

[gingermagicman]

Nick Griffin vs Jack Straw. What they failed to mention is that it will be staged in Brixton Academy.

[BioEthanol]

The BNP are silly according to their website they went to try and get the Republic of Ireland back as part of the UK and have a British isles Federation, which seems pointless to me.
Also does anyone know the BNP's position on Cornish Independance.

[Ledgey]

Also does anyone know the BNP's position on Cornish Independance.

Oh I'm pretty sure they're completely 100% for Cornish independance.

[Jon-86]

At 9/28/09 08:42 PM, AapoJoki wrote: They CAN use it whenever they want. There is no "No Muslims allowed" sign at the pool, they're perfectly welcome to use it at the same as everyone else.

I know that... Read what I wrote!

No, it's not a reasonable request, it's an outrageous one. If you have neurotic, superstitious fantasies, like religious beliefs then that's your business. It's not up to us to accommodate and encourage them while compromising equal rights.

"neurotic, superstitious fantasies" lol. I don't believe in any god but I wouldn't go as far as to call it that. And it is a reasonable request. Its not as if they are demanding people be shot if they don't get their way. And while it is a reasonable request it is not practical. Their is no argument. I already agree and have said that because it would not be fair to all, for that reason it shouldn't happen.

I mean c'mon that effin Christianity forces all their holidays on me. I don't want to waste my money buying cards and gifts (and I don't) maybe one day people will return the favour. What if I wanted to work on new years eve and get the money instead?

At 9/28/09 08:49 PM, Ledgey wrote: I've spoken to others who want iit to be interpreted in British law, albeit an extreme minority will want this. But yeah, just don't go telling them it's based on the Jewish courts... heh. :3

Seems the minority want floggings to be introduced and the majority just want their own court system. The minority don't represent the majority, which is unfortunate for the BNP, as then they might actually have something credible to base their claims on.

The BNP and general racists never comprimise. It's always "dey took our jawbs". I had an argument with some people in my politics class who were adament that immigrants should always be put second on the National Health Service. I'm not saying they're racist, but it's such a bleak view to have...

Bleak? Thats just daft. Are we gonna now check everyone coming into A&E to make sure they were born here???

At 9/29/09 05:00 PM, BioEthanol wrote: The BNP are silly according to their website they went to try and get the Republic of Ireland back as part of the UK

Their just after the Irish vote. They think the Irish here have forgiven and forgotten what the British done over their.

[Mr-Pope]

Good to see the discussion has been reduced to a hyperbolic debate over one unsourced, second hand account of an incident regarding Muslims, relayed to us by a borderline illiterate.

u guyz r soooo fukn retarded

[Jon-86]

At 9/29/09 06:10 PM, Mr-Pope wrote: Good to see the discussion has been reduced to a hyperbolic debate over one unsourced, second hand account of an incident regarding Muslims, relayed to us by a borderline illiterate.

People have to base their opinions on something. In this instance it doesn't matter if it happened or not the reaction to it says it all to be honest. Just people fearing what they don't know or understand instead of engaging with Muslims asking them why they want something and then having a sit down to tell them your point of view.

Bigots jump the gun and are already ready to "send them home" same bullshit narrow-minded people use all the time.

[Ledgey]

At 9/29/09 06:10 PM, Mr-Pope wrote: Good to see the discussion has been reduced to a hyperbolic debate over one unsourced, second hand account of an incident regarding Muslims, relayed to us by a borderline illiterate.

Second hand or not, you'd have to be pretty short sighted not to realise these sort of demands are going on, albeit on a minority scale.

u guyz r soooo fukn retarded

Hurr hurr good to see you're contributing something positive to the discussion.

[BioEthanol]

At 9/30/09 01:27 PM, TheAdd wrote: I know what you mean, its just a bunch of racist pricks that can't handle anything more than a white working-class manly man, their tiny neanderthal brains can't cope with seeing anything more complicated than a club. Just do what i do - if they come near you, laugh - laugh and take the piss with your mate's - they soon fuck off :)

What you just wrote made you sound as stupid as the BNP are, what with the frequent insults and all. The BNP are just misguided and also did you know Nick Griffin (BNP leader if you didn't know) went to Cambridge university, so i don't think he is all that dumb.

[Jon-86]

At 10/1/09 01:26 PM, BioEthanol wrote: The BNP are just misguided and also did you know Nick Griffin (BNP leader if you didn't know) went to Cambridge university, so i don't think he is all that dumb.

Explain what subjects they are misguided on? You can be intelligent and ignorant at the same time! Academic people should know better when it comes to equality. But thats not to say smart people will never be racist or never promote discrimination.

up until about 10 years ago you would only get into university if you had the money can came from a certain social class. The system of higher education itself discriminated against who it deemed unworthy or a waste of time. Thank fuck it has change since then.