Health/Postal Service Comparison?

[RaptorJesus]

Is it fair to compare a public option to Government Health Care to something like say, our postal system?

Like, there's both the US Postal Service, and private couriers like UPS & Fed Ex, etc... They co-exist just fine yet essentially do the same thing. Could that be a sign a government health care option could coexist with private health care just fine?

They are two completely different services. Plus with the postal service the government option came first followed by private options, where as in our health care, private options came first and (if allowed) a public option would come second.

Discuss.

[SadisticMonkey]

At 9/27/09 03:55 AM, mrgreg846 wrote: They are two completely different services.

Exactly.

And you still have to pay to post things, no?

[TDwizBang]

i think it should be said that the US post office has no real equal because there are certain things only the US post office is allowed to do... when was the last time tou got a post card sent UPS... or what about overnight priority mail... i think it is totally bullshit to compare the act of delivering parcels and the payment for the treatment of a broken leg or cancer... you are going to get some kind of help regardless of how fast that check gets sent through the mail...

[RaptorJesus]

At 9/28/09 04:47 PM, TDwizBang wrote: i think it should be said that the US post office has no real equal because there are certain things only the US post office is allowed to do... when was the last time tou got a post card sent UPS... or what about overnight priority mail... i think it is totally bullshit to compare the act of delivering parcels and the payment for the treatment of a broken leg or cancer... you are going to get some kind of help regardless of how fast that check gets sent through the mail...

Thanks, I forgot to mention that part about letters & postcards in my OP. Also I wanted to add if there's another service where government option coexists healthily with private ones, bring them up too.

This was just the closest thing I could think of even though the USPS isn't quite the same as the private ones.

[Proteas]

At 9/27/09 03:55 AM, mrgreg846 wrote: Like, there's both the US Postal Service, and private couriers like UPS & Fed Ex, etc... They co-exist just fine yet essentially do the same thing. Could that be a sign a government health care option could coexist with private health care just fine?

No, because the U.S. Postal Service operates independent of the U.S. Government without the U.S. Taxpayer Dollars... just like UPS and Fed Ex.

[morefngdbs]

At 9/28/09 05:10 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 9/27/09 03:55 AM, mrgreg846 wrote: Like, there's both the US Postal Service, and private couriers like UPS & Fed Ex, etc... They co-exist just fine yet essentially do the same thing. Could that be a sign a government health care option could coexist with private health care just fine?

No, because the U.S. Postal Service operates independent of the U.S. Government without the U.S. Taxpayer Dollars... just like UPS and Fed Ex.

;;;
All of you need to sit down & watch Micheal Moore's Movie "SICKO"

I'm not a big fan of Moore's, I don't particularly like his 'antic's' in th emovie.
BUT HTAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACTS !

He goes to Canada
& Britian
FRANCE & CUBA... & he BLOWS EVERY BULLSHIT ARGUMENT AMERICAN REPUBLICANS have been using to scare the shit out of the uninformed.

The truth is easily available to you.
You can see, that we are not COMMIE's just because we have Universal Health Care.
You will be shocked, & everything he showed about Canada, I know is the truth, because I live here
I have been involved with my medical system on more than 1 occassion, including getting my 2 fingers reattached on my left hand.(watching that guy on the show who had to choose FREAKED ME OUT )
It never cost me a cent....& there was no one trying to get me to choose which finger I could afford !
I presently am able to walk becuse of several inserted pins, bolts & a plate in my lower left leg !

Believe me, I just seen the movie last night for the first time...
There is truth here about our Countries Health systems &
I think I might move to France !

[gumOnShoe]

It depends on what you want to compare.

Obv there is a need for healthcare, but the need for a postal service is diminishing. So talks about profits and costs of the separate folders would not be very accurate.

However, you could make arguments towards structuring them in a similar manor. If the health care option were required to be independent and "break even," ie have a set amount of money proportional to people it covers in its treasury so that it can statistically cover everyone, in the same way the postal service was and did not take tax dollars you could make an argument for it and compare it to the years of success the postal service had while it provided a useful service.

The point is to make educated arguments. You can't just say, this worked and it was public so this will. And you can't just say, this is clearly failing now so this other endeavor will be a failure too.

So, they can be compared on various points, but you'd have to be educated in how each works.

Making the argument that the public option will use tax dollars, for instance, ignores the actual legislation.

[morefngdbs]

At 10/29/09 10:47 AM, gumOnShoe wrote: It depends on what you want to compare.

;;;;
Instead of making a new topic...I wanted to find one that I could postin with comparison to what I seen last night.

There are a great many comparissons to socialism that are present in America today, that millions of Americans use & it doesn't seem to be weakening your society.
Socialist things like - public libraries !----its free, but paid for with tax dollars !
things like fire protection (ever been asked if you have coverage before the fire fighters show up ? )---No it's free ! ! but paid for by tax dollars .
Police service...can't help you out with that burgler ma'am...your not covered for burgelers ! ---- no problem...it's also FREE ! ! ! except their budget comes out of tax payer coffers.
What about public schooling ( O M G your all secretely closet Commies )

No actually, your being lied to by self serving politicians & the INSANELY HUGE PROFIT Driven Medical Insurance firms...& they're going to fight to retain that golden goose for everything their worth, no matter how many American citizens they have to kill, to keep their profit margins HIGH !

CAN YOU NOT SEE THE FOREST PEOPLE,,,WHAT,,, BECAUSE ALL THE TREE'S ARE BLOCKING YOUR VIEW ?

[hansari]

At 10/29/09 11:27 AM, morefngdbs wrote: CAN YOU NOT SEE THE FOREST PEOPLE,,,WHAT,,, BECAUSE ALL THE TREE'S ARE BLOCKING YOUR VIEW ?

All the services you mentioned are vital and necessary for all in some way.

Except school.

You get done with k-12, but your expected to pay taxes towards it for the rest of your life. I think thats bullshit.

[morefngdbs]

At 10/29/09 01:45 PM, hansari wrote:

At 10/29/09 11:27 AM, morefngdbs wrote: CAN YOU NOT SEE THE FOREST PEOPLE,,,WHAT,,, BECAUSE ALL THE TREE'S ARE BLOCKING YOUR VIEW ?

All the services you mentioned are vital and necessary for all in some way.

Except school.

;;;
Exactly...so is Medical aid for evryone....I'm serious ,watch the movie "SICKO"
IT blew my mind...it really did .

You get done with k-12, but your expected to pay taxes towards it for the rest of your life. I think thats bullshit.

You got something for free, your helping future Americans get the same thing !
When you need assistance, the fire dept or the police dept will show up
You want to go to your local library...your taxes pay for all of that to !

[tony4moroney]

If you consider the healthcare systems of most first world countries with universal healthcare to be relatively successful, than the coexistence of private healthcare and public funded healthcare for America has a strong case as from what I'm aware with few exceptions all first world Universal Healthcare countries also have private health insurance.

Additionally, the case for public funded healthcare on the balance of probabilities should strongly favour the proponents of it. If you look at it from the Stiglitz view, or the neoclassical economic view healthcare was a market failure ab initio. Free market economies dictate market efficiencies occur only if there is profit to be made, negative externalities are considered, and there are sufficient competitors. Based on the fact that Healthcare provincially, can be like telco providers i.e only run by a few, as well as the entire industry being an oligopoly, there was the case that it was immediately flawed. Furthermore when you discuss it from the point of 'negative externalities' there is a conflict of interest in providing healthcare and increasing profits. The Public stake in healthcare is comprehensive cover, whereas the Corporate stake in healthcare is to provide minimum healthcare read: profit maximisation.

This is proven by the inefficiency in healthcare expenditure per capita when you compare it from the U.S to other First World countries, and then again, compare the WHO measurement of overall quality of healthcare provided to demonstrate that for money, America spends more but receives less ROI.

[bcdemon]

I myself consider healthcare to be an essential service, like firefighters and paramedics.

Firefighters: Save lives and keep fires from getting out of hand. Taxes
Police: Save lives and keep crime from getting out of hand. Taxes
Paramedics: Save lives. Taxes
Healthcare: Saves lives. Get it your fucking self, WHAT?

I can't understand why a government would not fund healthcare. If everyone has healthcare, everyone has a chance to stay healthy, staying healthy assists you in going to work and paying taxes.

[Elfer]

At 10/29/09 01:45 PM, hansari wrote: You get done with k-12, but your expected to pay taxes towards it for the rest of your life. I think thats bullshit.

Yeah, there should be no upward mobility in economic classes at all. Poor people are gross.

[gumOnShoe]

At 10/30/09 08:58 AM, Elfer wrote:

At 10/29/09 01:45 PM, hansari wrote: You get done with k-12, but your expected to pay taxes towards it for the rest of your life. I think thats bullshit.

Yeah, there should be no upward mobility in economic classes at all. Poor people are gross.

Hey man, I think he was suggesting that we simply force kids to take out loans until they graduate their higher education, that way there aren't any taxes and people can truly appreciate the value of their education. Also, this gives adults more power as they have the ability to appropriately apply debt as a punishment on people and keep the young indebted to the old. Really, I think its a great idea.

[morefngdbs]

At 10/30/09 09:15 AM, gumOnShoe wrote:

At 10/30/09 08:58 AM, Elfer wrote:

At 10/29/09 01:45 PM, hansari wrote: You get done with k-12, but your expected to pay taxes towards it for the rest of your life. I think thats bullshit.

Yeah, there should be no upward mobility in economic classes at all. Poor people are gross.

Hey man, I think he was suggesting that we simply force kids to take out loans until they graduate their higher education, that way there aren't any taxes and people can truly appreciate the value of their education. Also, this gives adults more power as they have the ability to appropriately apply debt as a punishment on people and keep the young indebted to the old. Really, I think its a great idea.

;;;
Is ti just me ?
Or except for Hansari...the sarcasm is getting really thick !?!

If a Nations Leaders claim it is an entity that is composed of people, who are considered equal , no matter their age , race, sex or social standing...isn't denying anyone of those citizens the right to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness a violation of their rights as citizens ?

What do you call a business, who's profit margins, come before the people who pay into that business, the premiums it needs to be in business in the first place ?
That you have a huge group of politicians who are being lobbied & paid by these lobbiests, to enact laws to protect these businesses that are actually dening treatment...Treatment that in many cases will save the lives of the citizens the Politicians profess to represent, yet they do nothing, or worse make it easier for you to be denied is ludicris.
It actually ,in my mind , is a criminal act & all of those who profit by the suffering and dying of your sick & injured deserve to be stripped of their possessions, & cast afloat to somewhere else... I hear there's a real epidenic going on in Nigeria...set them adrift there.