Reconciling the Musicians Burden

[Bjra]

The vast, VAST majority of people have absolutely no idea what a chord progression is.

The vast majority of musicians do.

we make a song with a generic chord proggression, leave it, then make a song with a more original chord proggression, and like the latter

you forget about those for a year, look back and the generic chorded song is at 4.4 with 2000 votes, while your other song is at 2.3 or some shit

but whenever you make a bunch of generic chorded songs in a row, you garner a shitload of hate from musicians, but gain alot of respect from listeners, ironicly.

Is there any way to reconcile this

[la-yinn]

You need to ask yourself if you see yourself as an artist or as a basshunter.

[Bjra]

At 9/20/09 09:34 AM, la-yinn wrote: You need to ask yourself if you see yourself as an artist or as a basshunter.

I ask though, who is getting laid more, er played more, the thousands of legitimate artists or basshunter.

is there any way to be both, have the fame and makes moving works of art

[MJTTOMB]

At 9/20/09 09:39 AM, Bjra wrote:

At 9/20/09 09:34 AM, la-yinn wrote: You need to ask yourself if you see yourself as an artist or as a basshunter.

I ask though, who is getting laid more, er played more, the thousands of legitimate artists or basshunter.

is there any way to be both, have the fame and makes moving works of art

Which is more important to you?

[Bjra]

At 9/20/09 09:41 AM, MJTTOMB wrote:

At 9/20/09 09:39 AM, Bjra wrote:

At 9/20/09 09:34 AM, la-yinn wrote: You need to ask yourself if you see yourself as an artist or as a basshunter.

I ask though, who is getting laid more, er played more, the thousands of legitimate artists or basshunter.

is there any way to be both, have the fame and makes moving works of art

Which is more important to you?

Well I wanna be as popular as basshunter, and many musicians here also look upon basshunter, which we are using as the example with envy.

When you make Generic songs that become popular, in a similar vein to bass hunter, musicians, "artists" come out of the woodwork with envy and disgust for you.

My question still stands, how do you reconcile this. If I mad3 30 songs in a row with ripped melodies and generic chord progressions, become famous, and get millions of fans, can I prevent the wave of indignation that will rise against me,

[la-yinn]

Meh, compare Pendulum to Noisia. Noisia's pretty famous and they did it their own way. Add your own twists and get out there. You'll have a slightly less mainstream fanbase, but you get yourself some hardcore respect, $$$ and pusseh.

[MaestroRage]

no, no matter how you play it as you go to one extreme the other will hate you. If you made the most amazing original songs you would still be hated by musicians who envy your talent. If you made generic songs and made millions of fans you would be hated by musicians who envy your popularity.

If you get nowhere fast and are constantly on the uphill battle all you need to do is listen closely to the chanting.

one of us... one of us... one of us.

[sorohanro]

Best solution:
Get a girl singer, she should be cute, sexy, with a sensual voice and shocking appearance, you should be quite mysterious (wearing a mouse huge head...sorry, that's taken already... then some mask...or crap) and you can make whatever music you want (let's say D'n'B in a 11/8 time signature).

Lyrics about smoking weed and saving tropical forest would help also (in same song).
Also anti-globalization lyrics seems popular.

Having those you'll have fans, liberty of being original and you'll get respect of fellow musicians.

[TakeTheBait]

Yeah, it kind of sucks. If you are a really good artist and make original music, then you will probably get a decent fanbase of people that appreciate the creativity of your music, and it really depends on the genre, some genre's fanbases crave really generic basic music (Dance is an example, mainstream hip hop). Armin van Buuren once said that, unless you are a world leader in your music genre, "You need to make music that sounds like other artists' in order to get DJ's to play your songs"

[LogicalDefiance]

This is actually a vast subject for discussion. I personally think original pieces are more interesting because they are more signature and tell you more about the artist. Also there's not 3 million other versions of the song. In my opinion, music should never be an attempt for popularity, but for many people music is their career not just their life. My advice, stick with your passion, and if your passion is to be known, or if your passion is for generic sounds, then bring it on. but...

Don't forget music is an art.

[EoD696]

At 9/20/09 12:36 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: Don't forget music is an art.

Bullshit. The mainstream music industry destroyed the art of music. As a result, the masses like stupid, simple ass chord progressions. No matter what way you go with it, someone will hate you. Someone will always hate you...you can't please everybody, so in the end, you just have to please yourself, mwuahaha! Not masturbating...i mean, make music for whatever purpose and justification you find fulfills your desire to make music. If all you want is to get laid, fuck the fuddy duddy's who say your music is too simple. If you want to make an impact on the direction of the music industry, don't plan on fame and fortune, plan on making a difference.

[LogicalDefiance]

At 9/20/09 12:40 PM, EoD696 wrote:

At 9/20/09 12:36 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: Don't forget music is an art.

Bullshit. The mainstream music industry destroyed the art of music.

mainstream music industry does not define music, it simply creates and plays it.

[nal1200]

At 9/20/09 09:39 AM, Bjra wrote:

At 9/20/09 09:34 AM, la-yinn wrote: You need to ask yourself if you see yourself as an artist or as a basshunter.

I ask though, who is getting laid more, er played more, the thousands of legitimate artists or basshunter.

is there any way to be both, have the fame and makes moving works of art

I think you're neglecting to realize that while Basshunter has a lot of fans, all of them are a bunch of shits that you probably wouldn't want to hang around anyway.

This guy's a fucking douche. NSFW.

[EmperorCharlemagne]

At 9/20/09 12:40 PM, EoD696 wrote:

At 9/20/09 12:36 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: Don't forget music is an art.

Bullshit. The mainstream music industry destroyed the art of music. As a result, the masses like stupid, simple ass chord progressions.

You know that's been going on for a lot longer than the music industry has been around, right?

[Bjra]

At 9/20/09 03:24 PM, nal1200 wrote: This guy's a fucking Banging a chick in this picture smugly proclaiming his musical fame.

see hes famous AND getting laid. why do musicians hate him so much!

[EmperorCharlemagne]

At 9/20/09 04:01 PM, Bjra wrote:

At 9/20/09 03:24 PM, nal1200 wrote: This guy's a fucking Banging a chick in this picture smugly proclaiming his musical fame.

see hes famous AND getting laid. why do musicians hate him so much!

"What is this shit"

[S3C]

Quit the amateur conspirator bullshit theories and make both if you want to garner both the fame from pop culture as well as respect from more "intelligent" musicians :P

[loansindi]

Are you asking anything different than the many, many threads before about how 'popular' music is generally relatively simple?

[KgZ]

There's a big difference between a [b]good[/b] chord progression and an [b]original[/b] chord progression.

The problem is most people here don't know how to resolve back to the beginning, or how to transition properly without sounding completely awkward.

[ProudAardvark]

I think it is much, much harder to make something "generic" sound good than you are giving credit for.

People like listening to simple melodies and progressions. I tend to write pieces for "me" and then work hard on simplifying things for general listeners. Complexity isn't a good thing most of the time; it's like the sculptor who said that the piece was done when there was nothing left to take away.

Making something elegant in its simplicity is a great challenge.

[mikkim]

At 9/20/09 03:24 PM, nal1200 wrote: I think you're neglecting to realize that while Basshunter has a lot of fans, all of them are a bunch of shits that you probably wouldn't want to hang around anyway.

You shit! what did you just call me? "a shit that you wouldn't want to hang around with"? WELL YOURE ONE TOO!

[Bjra]

At 9/20/09 05:33 PM, loansindi wrote: Are you asking anything different than the many, many threads before about how 'popular' music is generally relatively simple?

nah its mroe how do I become a generic prick whos all famous and shit without alienating musicians everywhere

[KgZ]

I still think people don't give enough credit to mainstream artists. For as bland as you think their music may be, they know how to make a great hook- something that is "very" difficult to do.

And you know you lost the battle when you start getting that "bland" song you hate so much stuck in your head.

[iHeartQuistis]

At 9/20/09 09:39 AM, Bjra wrote:

At 9/20/09 09:34 AM, la-yinn wrote: You need to ask yourself if you see yourself as an artist or as a basshunter.

I ask though, who is getting laid more, er played more, the thousands of legitimate artists or basshunter.

is there any way to be both, have the fame and makes moving works of art

No offense, but that is a stupid argument. I s'pose that for someone that doesn't get to fulfill that desire very often, it becomes another conquest. Try finding a woman that'll actually stick around longer than your next paycheck or even show and then tell us what real love and sex feels like...

As for the entire complexity vs. simplicity argument, there are plenty of musicians that have had the best of both worlds and achieved extremely high numbers of fans. Dream Theater, Between the Buried and Me, Andy McKee, Arcade Fire, Opeth, hell even video game composers like Nobuo Uematsu have a deeper fan-base than "basshunter".

You don't have to go mainstream to be successful. And I think it's very ridiculous to conform to either "one or the other". Just balance it out and whoever likes your talent - likes your talent. Try to actually be famous for the right reasons at that...

[JohnnyFrizz]

Hey folks!

I just saw this while passing by, and I think I can help answer your question.

I think the Basshunter example was a great idea to prove your point, but I don't believe that you should necessarily choose a side (just as la-yinn mentioned).

As KgZ said, mainstream musicians should be credited for being able of hooking the most ppl and that is also an important talent in the musical scene, but that's not just it...

Here's one of the biggest myths I've heard around NG:

"If you wanna succeed in music (or in NG) you gotta be a commercial bitch"

That is completely ridiculous, in my opinion here's what you have to do if you wanna be successful and respected among other musicians:

- Pick a genre (or a couple of them).
- Experiment around it.
- Define your sound.
- Excel at it! Be the best you can be and put the most effort you can on your tracks.
- Make a name of yourself (preferably a sell-able name).
- And finally! Innovate, keeping your music and style fresh is the key to success, while at the same time try to keep that sound that defines you on every track =)

Now, you might ask, who am I to tell you what to do? I'm not really famous, or a commercial mainstream artist, I'm not even signed! Well, lets take an example.

One of the biggest examples imo is Infected Mushroom, I can pretty much bet my ass you've listened too at least a track or two from them.

Now, they are a Psychedelic Trance/Goa music group which last year got on the Top 10 rank of DJMag, and now that was something never seen b4 until they got there, but seriously before them, how many of you, or a better question would be, how many of your friends knew that Psytrance even existed? And how did they make it up there? Having a defined sound, a neat quality in the production of their tracks and making the most badass beats they could think off!

Now, believe it or not, THIS! was the track that made them famous, and not because it was the most commercial track they had, but simply because its neat and awesome!

It isn't really that hard to tell why they become zillionaires is it?

Another important matter is to notice which kind of crowd is gonna listen to your music, most NGers like cheesy dancey shit, now if you happen to be good at making various genres, submit the songs that you think will suit best for NG (like I do for example) and leave the ones you know will end up buried below the surface out, and try other websites (preferably musically oriented websites) that appreciates the type of music you are into.

One of the genres I've seen more and more underrated here is Trance (and I don't mean the NG type of trance) I mean the good original quality trance. Trance folks, seriously, stop uploading your tracks to sites that won't appreciate it! Seriously, guys like xkore, Kazm0, zircon, TerraNation, Karco, move on already and stop wasting your talent!

Nuff Said!

I hope this was helpful Bjra, see ya around!

[Aisarene]

There are two types of stardom, mainstream and non-mainstream. You need to find the right crowd. I've had this problem in my work. A lot of people view my music as "not good" because it's not the type of electronica they like. I tend to get more Basshunter fans- it just depends on where you set yourself at for recognition.
Good luck.

~Aisarene

[Calamaistr]

At 9/20/09 09:39 AM, Bjra wrote:

At 9/20/09 09:34 AM, la-yinn wrote: You need to ask yourself if you see yourself as an artist or as a basshunter.

I ask though, who is getting laid more, er played more, the thousands of legitimate artists or basshunter.

is there any way to be both, have the fame and makes moving works of art

Yesterday during a airplane trip i read in some magazine something about a widely yet unknown musician saying that eventually we all want to have an audience, however it is that the audience should be given the oppertunity to hear, let me say it in my own words 'more shades of the rainbow.

Its up to those that have musical insight to present a bigger world to the listener, lets not bother with matters of the ego, its not about the one who makes the music, its about the music.
Look whos talking i say to myself, because i too am often frustrated by lack of just that musical insight in most people, and there are enough discussions on the internets about the difference between underground and commercial music, but lets not hide somewhere with our music, lets not be afraid to be put in a corner with what some people do or do not like, times change, peoples level of understanding music grows, there are many stupid people, but hardly any incapable of getting smarter.

Regards. ~Calamaistr.