We have no free will

[sam144boy]

So the big bang happens, atoms bounce off of atoms and stars are made. It was just chemical reactions that formed the universe, what we are today. All the thoughts in our head, they are just the continuing reactions of that first chemical reaction. Everything we think or do is just the result of atoms bouncing off each other in our head in a predictable manner. We have no choices, we may think we do, but the choice has been made already billions of years ago. So do we really have free will?

[Guest8792]

Metamorphical thinking: Keep it in your head. :)

[MudkipsPiano]

Life sucks.

[bdash1990]

what is this... i don't even...

[JustsTrollingAlong]

Eh, you're wrong... YOU might not have free will

but I do

[sam144boy]

Also if we could make a supercomputer that simulates the big bang and every atom in the universe, theoretically we could predict the future, right?
Fuck dude im high

[peyoteclock]

this kind of heavy philosophical though does not belong on the ngbbs, really, take a look around you and ask yourself if the fucking idiots that populate these boards are capable of comprehending and/or debating that kind of thought

[JustsTrollingAlong]

At 9/16/09 09:56 PM, peyoteclock wrote: this kind of heavy philosophical though does not belong on the ngbbs, really, take a look around you and ask yourself if the fucking idiots that populate these boards are capable of comprehending and/or debating that kind of thought

according to him it wouldn't matter whether "the fucking idiots that populate these boards are capable" because what's going to happen is not changeable by him or anyone else because we are all just watching our lives play out and are really not in control of anything we supposedly do.

The reason this philosophy is even slightly considered by some people (other than being morons) is that it absolves them of any morality or doing what is right as opposed to simply being an evil person since it is so simple to justify with the false argument that the OP stated that evil does not exist and people are only playing out their parts in some greater cosmic w/e.

While you may be able to convince yourself that nothing is in your control, it does not absolve you from reality and all your actions that you choose to do (whether you admit you choose to do them or not) will have consequences.

[kidd25]

big bang said to come from nothign but something must have created it therefore you can't stimulate the big bang becuase something from within can not show something from out side the known universe that it is in.

jsut saying that god exsist.

[halfangelfreak]

At 9/16/09 09:52 PM, sam144boy wrote: So the big bang happens, atoms bounce off of atoms and stars are made. It was just chemical reactions that formed the universe, what we are today. All the thoughts in our head, they are just the continuing reactions of that first chemical reaction. Everything we think or do is just the result of atoms bouncing off each other in our head in a predictable manner. We have no choices, we may think we do, but the choice has been made already billions of years ago. So do we really have free will?

Now, you're missing one thing: Nothing CAN be proven, only accepted. Christianity is almost more believable than the big bang, for example.

Think about it- the was nothing, then an explosion- then everything?

[RandomExploit]

At 9/16/09 10:06 PM, kidd25 wrote: big bang said to come from nothign but something must have created it therefore you can't stimulate the big bang becuase something from within can not show something from out side the known universe that it is in.

jsut saying that god exsist.

Both are theories. Now stop trying to start a religionwar and look smart.

[SearchmanEXE]

Ever try vault mixed with milk?

[DrunkDemon]

Not with me. I control my atoms. I do not bend to their will like a feeble minded simpleton! I am strong. AND NO ONE CAN STOP ME.

[LamboFactor]

So you're saying when we have a choice we're not responsible for our decisions? So i should go through life failing at everything because it was meant to happen?

[Le-Froid]

At 9/16/09 10:06 PM, kidd25 wrote: big bang said to come from nothign but something must have created it therefore you can't stimulate the big bang becuase something from within can not show something from out side the known universe that it is in.

jsut saying that god exsist.

was god around forever? how can a god come out of nothing? If that's possible its just as possible the materials causing the big bang were around forever

[JustsTrollingAlong]

At 9/16/09 10:10 PM, RandomExploit wrote: Both are theories. Now stop trying to start a religionwar and look smart.

One is less ridiculous even from a scientific point thought
option a: There is something beyond your comprehension out there that brought what we understand as existence into it's existance.
option b: There was nothing and then all of a sudden nothing magically exploded and randomly created all this amazing shit. Because everybody knows that nothingness is very combustible and just explodes.

He doesn't have to be very smart to make a choice there.

[MultiCanimefan]

At 9/16/09 10:01 PM, JustsTrollingAlong wrote:

At 9/16/09 09:56 PM, peyoteclock wrote:

The reason this philosophy is even slightly considered by some people (other than being morons) is that it absolves them of any morality or doing what is right as opposed to simply being an evil person since it is so simple to justify with the false argument that the OP stated that evil does not exist and people are only playing out their parts in some greater cosmic w/e.

See below.

While you may be able to convince yourself that nothing is in your control, it does not absolve you from reality and all your actions that you choose to do (whether you admit you choose to do them or not) will have consequences.

It kind of does absolve someone. If something is predetermined, it cannot be blamed. If you're destined to hurt someone, you cannot, in theory, be blamed because it's how you were "programmed" to act in accordance with said predetermined fate. The only way out of this is to say that we ourselves are predetermined to punish someone else's predestination, and that just sounds silly.

[Timmy]

At 9/16/09 09:52 PM, sam144boy wrote: So do we really have free will?

Yes.

While the human mind is a consequence of the evolution of the species, and therefore an indirect consequence of the formation of the universe, consciousness is not still somehow controlled by these origins.

That's like saying that the painting on a canvas was already predetermined by how the paint was made, or where the canvas was manufactured.

The indirect origins of the human mind (the Big Bang) don't impact the present-day decisions being made by that mind.

Unless that mind is thinking about the Big Bang. Woah.

[Michaelas10]

I was saying this for years..

[JustsTrollingAlong]

At 9/16/09 10:17 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: It kind of does absolve someone. If something is predetermined, it cannot be blamed. If you're destined to hurt someone, you cannot, in theory, be blamed because it's how you were "programmed" to act in accordance with said predetermined fate. The only way out of this is to say that we ourselves are predetermined to punish someone else's predestination, and that just sounds silly.

Except his philosophy (which he isn't really his, but the philosophy he posted about) is simply wrong, it's a cop out of responsibility. Which is what I was saying, that he was wrong... I was not delving into theorizing morality if his idea was correct. I was very simply telling him the idea he posted about was incorrect and that it does not absolve him from morality.

[PuRpLe-KusH]

As long as there are choices to be made, you have a FREE will. Also not making a choice IS making a choice.

[bgraybr]

At 9/16/09 09:55 PM, sam144boy wrote: Also if we could make a supercomputer that simulates the big bang and every atom in the universe, theoretically we could predict the future, right?

Woah, that actually makes sense. But a computer that powerful is almost impossible to build... and if we made a slight error the whole simulation would break.

Fuck dude im high

Lol/

[JHaley]

Please, god, no more heavy thinking. I'm already suffering Jet Lag...

[Cericon]

To prove you wrong, I'll do this!
But what if I was supposed to do that?
Agh! No matter, I'll just do this!!
But what if I was supposed to do that too?!

That's all you'll ever get from thinking about free will.

[Rabid-Echidna]

Congratulations on discovering materialism for the first time.

[Sh0T-D0wN]

At 9/16/09 09:52 PM, sam144boy wrote: So do we really have free will?

Philosophy like this is just another way of posing disturbing questions which are too big for anyone to care, or know about. Yes we have free will.

[carnivoracious]

I think the idea behind determinism (no free will) isn't that you can't make choices, but that you can't possibly make a choice other than the ones that you do make. Not that you weren't aware of other choices that could be made but that you actually pick one (or didn't pick as the case may be). You can't go back in time and re-choose you just do what you do. If you choose to base your decisions on morals and/or reason or if you choose to let your emotions control your actions its based on choice, you just can't choose differently once the choice has been made. Doesn't that sound a bit like free will?

I think the only reason don't like thinking of free will and determinism in the same terms is that folks want to make their choices different from the ones other creatures make. For example: Where a dog chooses to pee is a choice the dog makes (no one that owns a dog can tell me differently, seriously a dog can take three times as long choosing a spot than it takes to actually urinate). What irks folks that ascribe to free will (generally) is that this doggy decision is no different than a human decision to troll a webforum (figuratively of course) to the determinist.

The question then becomes not whether we have free will or not, but...
How do we quantify the difference between a human decision and a dog deciding where to pee?

[sam144boy]

At 9/16/09 11:10 PM, carnivoracious wrote: I think the idea behind determinism (no free will) isn't that you can't make choices, but that you can't possibly make a choice other than the ones that you do make. Not that you weren't aware of other choices that could be made but that you actually pick one (or didn't pick as the case may be).

That is exactly what I'm saying

[EternitySpent]

At 9/16/09 11:10 PM, carnivoracious wrote: I think the idea behind determinism (no free will) isn't that you can't make choices, but that you can't possibly make a choice other than the ones that you do make.

Yeah I remember reading a piece by a poet/philosopher last year, I can't remember his name I'm sure it's in my notes somewhere, but I don't fucking care. Anyways this guy summed it up in 3 words: 'character is fate'. Basically our "fate" or "destiny" is intrinsically determined by our character; we are this type of person, so we will lead this kind of life and make these particular choices. In a way everything you do is per-determined because you can't chose or change many of the characteristics that define you as "you", the things that make you who you are, can't be controlled so what results of who you are also isn't really in your control.

Consider this though:

Say you find out by a prophecy, or looking into the future or some other form of magical occurrence, that you will be killed on your way home from work that evening.

So in light of this news you drive home using ROAD B, instead of ROAD A, which you normally take. It doesn't help, while driving on ROAD B, you are involved in a terrible collision and are killed on site.

The question is did you die because you knew of the danger and took ROAD B?... Would the same result occur had you taken ROAD A like normal? Or was it fated all along that the accident was to occur on ROAD B, anticipating that you are the type of person that would try to avoid ROAD A in order to escape potential peril?

The joys of philosophy and recreational drug use.

[carnivoracious]

Crap, I think I just became an existentialist.