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What is up with the damn crop circles in his head? Maybe he was under some sort of alien mind control.

I Feel A Bit Sorry For Beyonce, She was like "uhhhh" then taylor was just left speechless.

Pwned.

At 9/14/09 10:56 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

I don't even know what necro-rap is, and I'm pretty sure I would never listen to it. I also don't like rap in general, yeah, but I don't mind some rap. I respect rappers like the Rza, Busta Rhymes, Chali 2na

Oh my god. You just wrote Charli 2na. I almost want to end it right there.

And secondly, have you heard Slaughterhouse's new album? 4 of the best emcees formed a group in the last year, they're really good. MethodMan and Redman dropped a new album, Raekwon released OnlyBuilt4CubanLinx2, Wale is dropping mixtapes like hot cakes. There is plenty of new rap to listen that is quality, so don't give me that "old rap is the best" shit.

Regardless, I'm talking about Kanye relative to other rap and hip-hop. I'm not saying that Kanye is shit because it's rap, I'm saying he's shit because he is shit even within his genre.

Man....why do you think he's shit? He's not a good rapper. I never said he was. But for you to say that the beats he makes are not good.....you may not LIKE them but you can't say they aren't good. So you're wrong lol.

At this time, no one was combining those type of sounds and getting it played on mainstream radio. So no, Kanye is not the fucking messiah of rap trends, but he made exceptional music at the time.

If by that you mean he made music that was better than his competition when it came out, then that's just not saying a whole lot. You even said earlier that the genre was flooded with shitty dance garbage, and that's all Kanye had to compete with. I'm sure that if you took that as a still frame in the context of music and put Kanye's stuff next to the other stuff, then yeah, he'd probably seem god, but when you compare him to other musicians and producers within the same genre from earlier/later times, he just doesn't stand out nearly as much.

no. no. no. no. no. I never said the dance music was shitty, I said he changed the standard for what is played in dance scenes. You can't stay away from bias and assume I'm calling dance music shit. God, arguing with you is like arguing with a 5 year old. "NO Im RIGHT NBGFNFB"

You need to separate his personality from his music. Yes, Kanye is a douchebag. I AGREE WITH YOU. But if thousands of people can do what he's doing, why aren't they? Why aren't they making tracks like H to the Izzo, Flashing Lights, Good Life? He happens to be the guy doing it, and these tracks are examples of good production in hip hop. If you don't like it, then I'm sorry lol. Cry me a fucking river.

Flashing lights is the only Kanye song that has a beat that I will admit I enjoy. However, as soon as Kanye's voice is audible, the song goes downhill from there. He managed to ruin his own song just by being in it. If he would just stop doing his shitty fucking vocals and work for someone else who had actual vocal talent, then maybe I'd consider listening to his work, even though I find his music really simple by means of production, rhythm modes, instrumentals, etc. when compared to the music that I actually enjoy listening to. But no, that's not the case, so his average skills as a producer are overshadowed by his insistence upon doing the vocals, which make his music very unpleasant to listen to.

There. You admitted it. You said you like a beat that he made, you ADMIT that the production is good and catchy, even if it is simple (by the way, try making that beat, I doubt you can do it). This argument is here by finished.

Kanye West is the most arrogant Dickhead to ever walk the earth. He has always interrupted fellow musicians when they get their awards. I used to like him, but now, I feel like punching him.

The funniest part is the video he thought should have won is a video of girls dancing to a white background cuz that's musical genius.. in all honesty he was drunk off his ass

If you can't see that this whole thing was staged, you'e a little naive.

Hold up, born in 88'
How old is that? Old enough..

What a tool.

That's my opinion.

At 9/15/09 01:18 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

Man....why do you think he's shit? He's not a good rapper. I never said he was. But for you to say that the beats he makes are not good.....you may not LIKE them but you can't say they aren't good. So you're wrong lol.

At this time, no one was combining those type of sounds and getting it played on mainstream radio. So no, Kanye is not the fucking messiah of rap trends, but he made exceptional music at the time.

If by that you mean he made music that was better than his competition when it came out, then that's just not saying a whole lot. You even said earlier that the genre was flooded with shitty dance garbage, and that's all Kanye had to compete with. I'm sure that if you took that as a still frame in the context of music and put Kanye's stuff next to the other stuff, then yeah, he'd probably seem god, but when you compare him to other musicians and producers within the same genre from earlier/later times, he just doesn't stand out nearly as much.

no. no. no. no. no. I never said the dance music was shitty, I said he changed the standard for what is played in dance scenes. You can't stay away from bias and assume I'm calling dance music shit. God, arguing with you is like arguing with a 5 year old. "NO Im RIGHT NBGFNFB"

Oh yeah, and you're much more mature.
As for changing the dance scene, I haven't noticed much a a change other than his songs being included. When I've gone to clubs, they'd play one or two Kanye songs, but the rest of the night was dominated with other stuff. The standard remains, and Kanye honestly only raised the bar to the point where someone in a dance song might have to change the subject away from fucking bitches while sippin' on sizzurp.

You need to separate his personality from his music. Yes, Kanye is a douchebag. I AGREE WITH YOU. But if thousands of people can do what he's doing, why aren't they? Why aren't they making tracks like H to the Izzo, Flashing Lights, Good Life? He happens to be the guy doing it, and these tracks are examples of good production in hip hop. If you don't like it, then I'm sorry lol. Cry me a fucking river.

Flashing lights is the only Kanye song that has a beat that I will admit I enjoy. However, as soon as Kanye's voice is audible, the song goes downhill from there. He managed to ruin his own song just by being in it. If he would just stop doing his shitty fucking vocals and work for someone else who had actual vocal talent, then maybe I'd consider listening to his work, even though I find his music really simple by means of production, rhythm modes, instrumentals, etc. when compared to the music that I actually enjoy listening to. But no, that's not the case, so his average skills as a producer are overshadowed by his insistence upon doing the vocals, which make his music very unpleasant to listen to.

There. You admitted it. You said you like a beat that he made, you ADMIT that the production is good and catchy, even if it is simple (by the way, try making that beat, I doubt you can do it). This argument is here by finished.

I said I liked a beat in one of his songs. A SINGLE BEAT. I'm not so close minded as to find a beat appealing until I find out Kanye was involved and then deny my own tastes and simply change my mind and say "nevermind, I hate that beat now that I know Kanye made it". At least I'm fucking MATURE ENOUGH TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, YOU RETARD.

Also, one good beat does NOT make a good song, nor does it make a good producer or artist. If your standards for producers are at the point where Kanye is something special to behold and his beats are all something you consider good and difficult to make, then the music you listen to is either terribly non-diverse or you just have really low standards for your music. I happen to hold higher standards of the musicians I listen to than Kanye could ever satisfy, unless he suddenly introduces complex polyrhythmic sound structures, good vocals, and lyrics that don't make me want to cringe, then that would be a different story.

Here is the basic gist of what I've been saying: Kanye is a horrible musician/vocalist, and an industry-average rate producer. When you combine his awful vocals with standard production, it brings down the total threshold of the song's quality to the point where average production skill can't save it.

The fucking NG Audio portal has artists on it that orchestrate much better music than Kanye does with a production budget of almost nothing.

I loled when I saw him with the Booze or whatever it was that he had the night of the show ( No I wasnt there ). So his drunkness Enhanced his gayness.

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

I'm not gonna try with you anymore, because I won when you admitted he made a good beat.

The fucking NG Audio portal has artists on it that orchestrate much better music than Kanye does with a production budget of almost nothing.

Really? Why aren't they signed to Rocafella?

At 9/15/09 04:02 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

I'm not gonna try with you anymore, because I won when you admitted he made a good beat.

So if I make one good beat, I am suddenly a producer on par with Kanye?
boy am I glad that's not flawed logic now I can be famous too

The fucking NG Audio portal has artists on it that orchestrate much better music than Kanye does with a production budget of almost nothing.

Really? Why aren't they signed to Rocafella?

Because the music industry is a bureaucratic clusterfuck full of politics and cheats where connections are more important than musical ability, and a lot of the people who submit to the audio portal are younger people who aren't in the music industry formally.

At 9/15/09 04:12 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

At 9/15/09 04:02 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

I'm not gonna try with you anymore, because I won when you admitted he made a good beat.

So if I make one good beat, I am suddenly a producer on par with Kanye?
boy am I glad that's not flawed logic now I can be famous too

You said he was a shitty producer. Then you admitted to liking one of his beats. Therefore, you can no longer say that he is terrible. I'm sure if you listened to others you'd probably secretly like those too.

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

Here is the basic gist of what I've been saying: Kanye is a horrible musician/vocalist, and an industry-average rate producer. When you combine his awful vocals with standard production, it brings down the total threshold of the song's quality to the point where average production skill can't save it.

No it doesn't. That's what remixes are for. Anyone can jump on his beat and record their own verse. If the RZA, who you claimed to like despite his sub par lyrical ability, recorded a remix of flashing lights, you would like it. Therefore, his production is good, it compliments any skilled emcee and is catchy, as well as being melodic.

I'm going to the gym, feel free to keep spewing bullshit, I'll knock down whatever you post.

Kanye looked like he wanted to cry when Jay Leno asked him about his momma.

At 9/15/09 04:18 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

At 9/15/09 04:12 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

At 9/15/09 04:02 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

I'm not gonna try with you anymore, because I won when you admitted he made a good beat.

So if I make one good beat, I am suddenly a producer on par with Kanye?
boy am I glad that's not flawed logic now I can be famous too

You said he was a shitty producer. Then you admitted to liking one of his beats. Therefore, you can no longer say that he is terrible.

What the fuck are you talking about, that's not true at all. One good beat doesn't mean he isn't terrible. I've heard at least 24 Kanye songs, and I liked the beat alone on one of them. That means that from what I've heard, I've liked the beats of about 5% of his music. That's a pretty horrible percentage. Hell, he doesn't even come up with a lot of his beats, most of his sampling is of beats.

I also said he was a terrible MUSICIAN AND RAPPER, and I said he was an INDUSTRY AVERAGE producer, not a shitty producer. That averages out to terrible overall.

I'm sure if you listened to others you'd probably secretly like those too.

I HAVE listened to PLENTY of his other stuff, and I seriously disliked it.

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

Here is the basic gist of what I've been saying: Kanye is a horrible musician/vocalist, and an industry-average rate producer. When you combine his awful vocals with standard production, it brings down the total threshold of the song's quality to the point where average production skill can't save it.

No it doesn't. That's what remixes are for. Anyone can jump on his beat and record their own verse.

That's exactly why Kanye is only an aveage producer. If he was good, he'd leave himself out of the vocal mix and use only talented people. A good producer not only needs to be able to mix and make beats, he also needs to have good judgment when making songs to make them as good as possible. By insisting upon doing the vocals, he makes his songs worse as a whole because of his ineptitude with vocals.

If the RZA, who you claimed to like despite his sub par lyrical ability, recorded a remix of flashing lights, you would like it.

Because the Rza is a better producer than Kanye, as well as a better rapper. The Rza did the music in Tarantino's Kill Bill. That had some great stuff in it, better and more versatile than anything Kanye could ever do.

Therefore, his production is good, it compliments any skilled emcee and is catchy, as well as being melodic.

I'm going to the gym, feel free to keep spewing bullshit, I'll knock down whatever you post.

You are such a fucking cunt. You know, before this whole argument, I had a neutral opinion of you, but now that you're sprinkling your argument with insults to escalate it (I was keeping it fairly civil at the beginning, but you started throwing out bigger and more direct insults just to piss me off) and adding arrogant footers like "I'm going to the gym can't talk now lul" and fucking PMing me last night with some sad little taunt, it's obvious that you're just an absolute cocksucking piece of shit. You can listen to all the Kanye West you like, it's your own time and money you're wasting by patronizing that hack.

At 9/13/09 10:03 PM, tobi0 wrote: Kanye West is a gay fish.

Informative post is informative.

And at the EMA's were he went on stage and embarrassed JUSTICE.LINK

Ah, shut your mouth, there are people, far worse and Kanye's crime is only entertaining us with hits you fucking critic!

See, the way your calling him, your making him sound like this

At 9/15/09 04:33 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

At 9/15/09 04:18 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

At 9/15/09 04:12 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

At 9/15/09 04:02 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

I'm not gonna try with you anymore, because I won when you admitted he made a good beat.

So if I make one good beat, I am suddenly a producer on par with Kanye?
boy am I glad that's not flawed logic now I can be famous too

You said he was a shitty producer. Then you admitted to liking one of his beats. Therefore, you can no longer say that he is terrible.

What the fuck are you talking about, that's not true at all. One good beat doesn't mean he isn't terrible. I've heard at least 24 Kanye songs, and I liked the beat alone on one of them. That means that from what I've heard, I've liked the beats of about 5% of his music. That's a pretty horrible percentage. Hell, he doesn't even come up with a lot of his beats, most of his sampling is of beats.

I find that really hard to believe...you like Flashing Lights, which is pretty similar to most of his other songs but you hate ALL of those other songs....

I also said he was a terrible MUSICIAN AND RAPPER, and I said he was an INDUSTRY AVERAGE producer, not a shitty producer. That averages out to terrible overall.

I'm sure if you listened to others you'd probably secretly like those too.

I HAVE listened to PLENTY of his other stuff, and I seriously disliked it.

That's fine. But that doesn't mean it's bad lol.

At 9/15/09 03:20 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

Here is the basic gist of what I've been saying: Kanye is a horrible musician/vocalist, and an industry-average rate producer. When you combine his awful vocals with standard production, it brings down the total threshold of the song's quality to the point where average production skill can't save it.

No it doesn't. That's what remixes are for. Anyone can jump on his beat and record their own verse.

That's exactly why Kanye is only an aveage producer. If he was good, he'd leave himself out of the vocal mix and use only talented people.

But him rapping on his own beats does not make his beat bad....I'm talking strictly production and you keep going back to his vocals. I have said at least once now that he is a horrible rapper. I guess you need any sort of example to fuel your argument, even if it doesn't relate.

A good producer not only needs to be able to mix and make beats, he also needs to have good judgment when making songs to make them as good as possible. By insisting upon doing the vocals, he makes his songs worse as a whole because of his ineptitude with vocals.

If the RZA, who you claimed to like despite his sub par lyrical ability, recorded a remix of flashing lights, you would like it.

Because the Rza is a better producer than Kanye, as well as a better rapper. The Rza did the music in Tarantino's Kill Bill. That had some great stuff in it, better and more versatile than anything Kanye could ever do.

RZA is not a better producer, there styles are entirely different (although interestingly, Kanye has said before to be highly influenced by RZA's productions). RZA is all about that grimey New York sound, Kanye is pretty much mainstream poppy (but good) rap producer. You think RZA is better....good for you lol.

Therefore, his production is good, it compliments any skilled emcee and is catchy, as well as being melodic.

I'm going to the gym, feel free to keep spewing bullshit, I'll knock down whatever you post.

You are such a fucking cunt. You know, before this whole argument, I had a neutral opinion of you,

LOL. Aww....now I feel bad...

but now that you're sprinkling your argument with insults to escalate it (I was keeping it fairly civil at the beginning, but you started throwing out bigger and more direct insults just to piss me off)

I don't like when people say ignorant things and honestly believe they know what they're talking about. You fall into this category.

and adding arrogant footers like "I'm going to the gym can't talk now lul" and fucking PMing me last night with some sad little taunt,

Yeah good times

it's obvious that you're just an absolute cocksucking piece of shit.

obviously

You can listen to all the Kanye West you like, it's your own time and money you're wasting by patronizing that hack.

k, will do, thanks

At 9/15/09 08:00 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

I find that really hard to believe...you like Flashing Lights, which is pretty similar to most of his other songs but you hate ALL of those other songs....

I just like that one synth beat and the particular sound that the synth uses. I haven't heard it in any of the other songs he's done that I have heard, which is why that that is the only song that I would venture to say has good things to it.

I also said he was a terrible MUSICIAN AND RAPPER, and I said he was an INDUSTRY AVERAGE producer, not a shitty producer. That averages out to terrible overall.

I'm sure if you listened to others you'd probably secretly like those too.

I HAVE listened to PLENTY of his other stuff, and I seriously disliked it.

That's fine. But that doesn't mean it's bad lol.

The point I'm making is that I didn't just listen to 3 Kanye songs once on the radio and decide to hate him just for the hell of it, I have actually heard many of his songs multiple times and come to a personal conclusion.

But him rapping on his own beats does not make his beat bad....I'm talking strictly production and you keep going back to his vocals. I have said at least once now that he is a horrible rapper. I guess you need any sort of example to fuel your argument, even if it doesn't relate.

I never said it made the beat bad, I said it made the song bad. The beat in Flashing Lights is a redeeming aspect. The song as a whole sounds bad to me because Kanye does the majority of the vocals. It does relate to the argument at hand, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

A good producer not only needs to be able to mix and make beats, he also needs to have good judgment when making songs to make them as good as possible. By insisting upon doing the vocals, he makes his songs worse as a whole because of his ineptitude with vocals.

If the RZA, who you claimed to like despite his sub par lyrical ability, recorded a remix of flashing lights, you would like it.

Because the Rza is a better producer than Kanye, as well as a better rapper. The Rza did the music in Tarantino's Kill Bill. That had some great stuff in it, better and more versatile than anything Kanye could ever do.

RZA is not a better producer, there styles are entirely different (although interestingly, Kanye has said before to be highly influenced by RZA's productions). RZA is all about that grimey New York sound, Kanye is pretty much mainstream poppy (but good) rap producer. You think RZA is better....good for you lol.

The Rza can do more than just grimy New York sound, and the Kill Bill soundtrack is the best example I can give you. It's quite diverse, and a really great soundtrack. The Rza can depart from his New York sound, which is probably where he is most comfortable, and still produce the soundtrack to a 2 part movie consisting of vastly different sounds than he is usually accustomed to and make it really good. THAT is the mark of a good producer. Once Kanye can do that, or something else of that scale, then I'll say he's above average.

Therefore, his production is good, it compliments any skilled emcee and is catchy, as well as being melodic.

I'm going to the gym, feel free to keep spewing bullshit, I'll knock down whatever you post.

You are such a fucking cunt. You know, before this whole argument, I had a neutral opinion of you,

LOL. Aww....now I feel bad...

but now that you're sprinkling your argument with insults to escalate it (I was keeping it fairly civil at the beginning, but you started throwing out bigger and more direct insults just to piss me off)

I don't like when people say ignorant things and honestly believe they know what they're talking about. You fall into this category.

So you just launch into arguments with them? That's pretty swell

Listen, I obviously know something about what I'm talking about, or else I would have run out of things to talk about after 2 or 3 posts. Shit, I've named at least as many supporting examples for my argument as you have, if not more.

Of course, me not knowing what I'm talking about happens to be how I disagree with your taste in music and my dismissal of Kanye's "talent" as a musician. You said that liking his music is based on opinion, and so is your view that Kanye is good. Both are opinions. Then you assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Not only is it rude to dismiss someone right off as not knowing what they're talking about, it's pretty subjective to label someone like that right away, making it about as solid as an opinion.

My Ex-girlfriend loves him.

Noticed I said EX.

He's not racist.

Relevant picture thrown together.
Well...relevant-ish

At 9/15/09 09:08 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

At 9/15/09 08:00 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

I find that really hard to believe...you like Flashing Lights, which is pretty similar to most of his other songs but you hate ALL of those other songs....

I just like that one synth beat and the particular sound that the synth uses. I haven't heard it in any of the other songs he's done that I have heard, which is why that that is the only song that I would venture to say has good things to it.

Most of graduation uses similar synths...

I also said he was a terrible MUSICIAN AND RAPPER, and I said he was an INDUSTRY AVERAGE producer, not a shitty producer. That averages out to terrible overall.

I'm sure if you listened to others you'd probably secretly like those too.

I HAVE listened to PLENTY of his other stuff, and I seriously disliked it.

That's fine. But that doesn't mean it's bad lol.

The point I'm making is that I didn't just listen to 3 Kanye songs once on the radio and decide to hate him just for the hell of it, I have actually heard many of his songs multiple times and come to a personal conclusion.

Okay. You don't like him, But he's not a bad producer. Admit that. You don't like him, but he's not bad. A bad producer would be Soulja Boy or something. I mean christ, his beats are poorly orchestrated and he uses cheap sounds.

But him rapping on his own beats does not make his beat bad....I'm talking strictly production and you keep going back to his vocals. I have said at least once now that he is a horrible rapper. I guess you need any sort of example to fuel your argument, even if it doesn't relate.

I never said it made the beat bad, I said it made the song bad. The beat in Flashing Lights is a redeeming aspect. The song as a whole sounds bad to me because Kanye does the majority of the vocals. It does relate to the argument at hand, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

Right, so in terms of him being a producer for that song, when you take away the vocals, you have a good beat. We both agree that he is not a good rapper, but in terms of that beat (and many others), he has done a good job.

RZA is not a better producer, there styles are entirely different (although interestingly, Kanye has said before to be highly influenced by RZA's productions). RZA is all about that grimey New York sound, Kanye is pretty much mainstream poppy (but good) rap producer. You think RZA is better....good for you lol.

The Rza can do more than just grimy New York sound, and the Kill Bill soundtrack is the best example I can give you. It's quite diverse, and a really great soundtrack. The Rza can depart from his New York sound, which is probably where he is most comfortable, and still produce the soundtrack to a 2 part movie consisting of vastly different sounds than he is usually accustomed to and make it really good. THAT is the mark of a good producer. Once Kanye can do that, or something else of that scale, then I'll say he's above average.

That's ridiculous. The argument is about being a good producer......for HIP HOP. If I were to compare Quincy Jones to Kanye right now I might as well shoot myself in the dick. RZA's side project for the Kill Bill soundtrack has nothing to do with HIP HOP (and by the way, if you're trying to tell me that THIS is better than this..... you can gtfo right now lol. We might as well give up with the RZA comparison right now because you and I both know that RZA's style is an ACQUIRED TASTE and has made quite a few shit beats that most PRODUCERS would scoff at.

I don't like when people say ignorant things and honestly believe they know what they're talking about. You fall into this category.

So you just launch into arguments with them? That's pretty swell

yes, otherwise who is going to tell they're wrong? Other newgrounds-regulars who have no idea what the are talking about either haha?

Listen, I obviously know something about what I'm talking about, or else I would have run out of things to talk about after 2 or 3 posts. Shit, I've named at least as many supporting examples for my argument as you have, if not more.

For every bullshit example you have posted, I've gutted that bitch in her clit and thrown her into a vat of my boiling gizz.

Of course, me not knowing what I'm talking about happens to be how I disagree with your taste in music and my dismissal of Kanye's "talent" as a musician.

You don't have to like him, just don't say he's not a good HIPHOP producer. That's an ignorant statement.

You said that liking his music is based on opinion, and so is your view that Kanye is good.

Wrong. Saying that Kanye's production is good is based on a standard of a music genre (hiphop). Just as RZA is a part of that standard(I did not say anything about RZA being shitty until YOU BROUGHT HIM UP AS a "good" example). In terms of hiphop, Kanye's production is sonically....good! He uses clean samples, he has a background in other music genres (digging for a variety of records since he was a teen), his drums are clean and compliment the sample/instruments and he is efficient in utilizing overdubbing techniques. And he has creative ideas. The samples he finds are usually old gospel soul records that had little chart success when they were first released (not always, see Daft Punk on Stronger, a song I dislike). Through technology and editing, Kanye can bring these samples to life, much like the Avalanches, but where he differs with The Avalanches is that he does not use only samples, he has instruments play over them, which is certainly more resourceful and creative .

Both are opinions. Then you assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Not only is it rude to dismiss someone right off as not knowing what they're talking about, it's pretty subjective to label someone like that right away, making it about as solid as an opinion.

I'm not going to go back and check what you said that started said debate, because I don't care that much, but I recall that you came off as a snotty douche who said some ignorant shit and assumed no one was going to call you out on it because you're on NewGrounds.

P.S: Check out this site in order to get informed.

P.P.S: Off topic question, what do you think of Dr.Dre and his production work, lyrics aside? Choose your words wisely....

At 9/15/09 09:59 PM, Bladezguy wrote: He's not racist.

Oh what a great point, I'm glad you backed it up.

...

At 9/14/09 10:17 PM, Digital-Terror wrote: I loathe Kanye West for shitting all over Daft Punk.

I seriously will be glad when he dies. Hopefully violently.

Did you know Daft Punk approved his song "Stronger"? I like that song. It's catchy, and unlike what Luxury-Yacht has said, he does have a good voice. As for the lyrics, they're nothing special, but they're also not bland and obvious. While my experience in this genre is limited, I've heard way worse.

At 9/15/09 10:32 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

At 9/15/09 09:08 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

At 9/15/09 08:00 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

I find that really hard to believe...you like Flashing Lights, which is pretty similar to most of his other songs but you hate ALL of those other songs....

I just like that one synth beat and the particular sound that the synth uses. I haven't heard it in any of the other songs he's done that I have heard, which is why that that is the only song that I would venture to say has good things to it.

Most of graduation uses similar synths...

I didn't think so. Something about it was different from the rest of the album.

Okay. You don't like him, But he's not a bad producer. Admit that. You don't like him, but he's not bad. A bad producer would be Soulja Boy or something. I mean christ, his beats are poorly orchestrated and he uses cheap sounds.

Well, yeah, I'm not going to argue that he's worse than Soulja Boy. If Kanye is an average producer, Soulja Boy is pretty much rock bottom. Awful sound/audio quality, repetitive and oppressively dull beats, etc. Kanye is better than Soulja Boy, obviously, but that's not much of an achievement, since basically anyone is better than THAT mess. Soulja Boy is probably just working out of a basement recording studio or something.

But him rapping on his own beats does not make his beat bad....I'm talking strictly production and you keep going back to his vocals. I have said at least once now that he is a horrible rapper. I guess you need any sort of example to fuel your argument, even if it doesn't relate.

I never said it made the beat bad, I said it made the song bad. The beat in Flashing Lights is a redeeming aspect. The song as a whole sounds bad to me because Kanye does the majority of the vocals. It does relate to the argument at hand, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

Right, so in terms of him being a producer for that song, when you take away the vocals, you have a good beat. We both agree that he is not a good rapper, but in terms of that beat (and many others), he has done a good job.

Well, beats are pretty subjective to opinion. The thing is, as I have listened to more music and expanded my tastes, I still remain picky as to what I consider a good beat, and I rarely allow a single good beat and/or riff carry an entire song. For example, Led Zeppelin's Trampled Under Foot. I like Led Zep a lot, and the riff to that song is quite good, but there's a problem: that riff is used for the vast majority of the song, and even though I like it, it just gets old before the song is over. My point is, it takes more than one riff or beat to make a song good.

RZA is not a better producer, there styles are entirely different (although interestingly, Kanye has said before to be highly influenced by RZA's productions). RZA is all about that grimey New York sound, Kanye is pretty much mainstream poppy (but good) rap producer. You think RZA is better....good for you lol.

The Rza can do more than just grimy New York sound, and the Kill Bill soundtrack is the best example I can give you. It's quite diverse, and a really great soundtrack. The Rza can depart from his New York sound, which is probably where he is most comfortable, and still produce the soundtrack to a 2 part movie consisting of vastly different sounds than he is usually accustomed to and make it really good. THAT is the mark of a good producer. Once Kanye can do that, or something else of that scale, then I'll say he's above average.

That's ridiculous. The argument is about being a good producer......for HIP HOP. If I were to compare Quincy Jones to Kanye right now I might as well shoot myself in the dick. RZA's side project for the Kill Bill soundtrack has nothing to do with HIP HOP

I'm talking about his talent in general, not just in hip hop. Kanye hasn't really shown me that he is capable of producing anything more than a few songs with passable beats, while the Rza has produced an entire soundtrack.

(and by the way, if you're trying to tell me that THIS is better than this..... you can gtfo right now lol. We might as well give up with the RZA comparison right now because you and I both know that RZA's style is an ACQUIRED TASTE and has made quite a few shit beats that most PRODUCERS would scoff at.

I won't argue with you on that one, since I haven't listened to enough of his stuff to make a sound decision.

I don't like when people say ignorant things and honestly believe they know what they're talking about. You fall into this category.

So you just launch into arguments with them? That's pretty swell

yes, otherwise who is going to tell they're wrong? Other newgrounds-regulars who have no idea what the are talking about either haha?

It's happened before.

Listen, I obviously know something about what I'm talking about, or else I would have run out of things to talk about after 2 or 3 posts. Shit, I've named at least as many supporting examples for my argument as you have, if not more.

For every bullshit example you have posted, I've gutted that bitch in her clit and thrown her into a vat of my boiling gizz.

That is highly debatable. BUt I'm not taking THAT fucking bait.

Of course, me not knowing what I'm talking about happens to be how I disagree with your taste in music and my dismissal of Kanye's "talent" as a musician.

You don't have to like him, just don't say he's not a good HIPHOP producer. That's an ignorant statement.

You said that liking his music is based on opinion, and so is your view that Kanye is good.

Wrong. Saying that Kanye's production is good is based on a standard of a music genre (hiphop). Just as RZA is a part of that standard(I did not say anything about RZA being shitty until YOU BROUGHT HIM UP AS a "good" example). In terms of hiphop, Kanye's production is sonically....good! He uses clean samples, he has a background in other music genres (digging for a variety of records since he was a teen), his drums are clean and compliment the sample/instruments and he is efficient in utilizing overdubbing techniques. And he has creative ideas. The samples he finds are usually old gospel soul records that had little chart success when they were first released (not always, see Daft Punk on Stronger, a song I dislike). Through technology and editing, Kanye can bring these samples to life, much like the Avalanches, but where he differs with The Avalanches is that he does not use only samples, he has instruments play over them, which is certainly more resourceful and creative .

Both are opinions. Then you assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Not only is it rude to dismiss someone right off as not knowing what they're talking about, it's pretty subjective to label someone like that right away, making it about as solid as an opinion.

I'm not going to go back and check what you said that started said debate, because I don't care that much, but I recall that you came off as a snotty douche who said some ignorant shit and assumed no one was going to call you out on it because you're on NewGrounds.

People get called out all the time. This is the internet. It's the nature of the beast. You don't have to take it upon yourself to debate anyone who doesn't look like they know what they're doing, you'd never have eough time to do so.

P.S: Check out this site in order to get informed.

P.P.S: Off topic question, what do you think of Dr.Dre and his production work, lyrics aside? Choose your words wisely....

I'm kind of ambivalent towards Dre. I've heard some decent stuff, but the I've also heard some of his stuff that I really just didn't like. I don't have a healthy enough opinion to give you.

I'm just gonna say two things.

1. Kanye West isn't that big of a deal. It's not like he beat her up or anything, which would be a grievous crime and punishable by law. I'd like to know who's job it was to prevent the wrong person from getting onstage and why they still have their job.

2. Luxury comes across as more respectable in this recent dick-wagging.

At 9/15/09 11:09 PM, Luxury-Yacht wrote:

I'm kind of ambivalent towards Dre. I've heard some decent stuff, but the I've also heard some of his stuff that I really just didn't like. I don't have a healthy enough opinion to give you.

Nor do you have a healthy opinion on RZA!

but

okay. That's fair.

I'm done being aggressive towards you. Sorry. Have a nice rest of your week.

At 9/15/09 11:22 PM, kikomannnn wrote:

Nor do you have a healthy opinion on RZA!

but

okay. That's fair.

I'm done being aggressive towards you. Sorry. Have a nice rest of your week.

okay you too