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At 2/16/04 04:56 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: I wonder why the Jews can't SHARE their land with the Palestinians? </commonsense>

Eh, not alot of land to share...
Anyways, I dont think Islamic terrorists like compremising that much

At 2/25/04 11:14 PM, Cutmecow wrote: Eh, not alot of land to share...
Anyways, I dont think Islamic terrorists like compremising that much

There's more than enough land to go around, if there woeren't guys bombing themselves and soldiors shooting innocenta all the bloody time.

At 2/26/04 02:52 AM, bumcheekcity wrote: There's more than enough land to go around, if there woeren't guys bombing themselves and soldiors shooting innocenta all the bloody time.

But there are. They hate eachother, there is absolutely nothing we can do about that, they are ultimately the only ones who can stop it.

At 2/17/04 04:52 AM, bumcheekcity wrote: I was kinda IMPLYING that they should, you know, put an end to all the bombing and shit...

And since when has anyone over there shown ANY common sense? Acted responsibily? Like they are truly commited to peace?

More evidence points towards a zionist extreemist group commiting 9/11 than muslims.

ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPS, Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Time Magazine, NewsWeek, People Mag, US News and countless other media + Hollywood companies have a Zionist CEO, News Chief or owned by a conglamorate which has a Zionist CEO.

They pretty much have a stranglehold on usa media.

as for bin laiden..

The only evidence linking him to 9/11 is a covenience 'confession tape' 'found' lying around in afganastan. The guy posing as osama doesnt even look like the real guy when you pause the tape. The poser mumbles words that islamic countried cant even translate, yet the cia has their own translation saying what they want. Officially osama denied having anything to do with 9/11.

As for the evidence of the zionist extreemist group..
(summary)

All isrealis working i nthe trade centre were given warnings of the attackes in advance by anonomous internet messages. An entire isreali company working in the tower moved out just in time to avoid the attacks. No isrealis died in the towers. A day before the attack, in india (i think it was there or france) several isrealis were claiming they were muslim preachers on their way to america, identity checks exposed them as isrealis, they were allowed to leave to america anyways. The muslim hijacker identities that were released are stolen from living people in afganastan who arent terrorists and never died flying planes into building, theyre trying to get answers but the cia's just ignoring them.

The references and hard evidence on these things can be found in the Underground 9/11 Report. It can be downloaded (pdf.) at http://www.threeworldwars.com/

Being persecuted in ww2 sucks i bet, but its no excuse to slaughter muslims in isreal. Id bet theyre pissed off into bombing isreal because the isreal occuping the little space the palastinians still have.

At 2/26/04 08:12 PM, Adun wrote: More evidence points towards a zionist extreemist group commiting 9/11 than muslims.

A small point to note, but Bin Laden actualy CLAIMED he made the 9/11 attacks. Didn't you see the tape?

At 2/15/04 11:41 PM, launderedculture wrote: The world would be a better place without it. For that matter so would the Matrix movies.

AMHEN!

At 2/27/04 01:54 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 2/26/04 08:12 PM, Adun wrote: More evidence points towards a zionist extreemist group commiting 9/11 than muslims.

A small point to note, but Bin Laden actualy CLAIMED he made the 9/11 attacks. Didn't you see the tape?

Haha.

I just said that the tape is obviously fabricated (FAKE), find a recording of it on the internet or something (or better find someone who taped it) and compare the face with a still photo of bin laiden, they look completley different.

Would bin laiden make a confession tape and lay it in the desert for the army after denying being involved?

Read what I said, more than the first line before you way something like that. To me you just look like a retard for saying that.

At 2/27/04 05:10 PM, Adun wrote: I just said that the tape is obviously fabricated (FAKE), find a recording of it on the internet or something (or better find someone who taped it) and compare the face with a still photo of bin laiden, they look completley different.

In your opinion, it's fake. To me, a conspiracy theory freak, it's real. You merely refuse to accept my belief that it is real, and cling to your conception [which may or may not be right] that it is fake. You then flamed me. I accuse the photo of Bin Laden of being fake.

At 2/27/04 06:16 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 2/27/04 05:10 PM, Adun wrote: I just said that the tape is obviously fabricated (FAKE), find a recording of it on the internet or something (or better find someone who taped it) and compare the face with a still photo of bin laiden, they look completley different.

In your opinion, it's fake. To me, a conspiracy theory freak, it's real. You merely refuse to accept my belief that it is real, and cling to your conception [which may or may not be right] that it is fake. You then flamed me. I accuse the photo of Bin Laden of being fake.

I wont flame you if you believe its real, what pissed me off is that it seemed that you didnt read anything else I said.

Are you saying that every other photo of bin laiden OTHER than the tape is fake? Theres not really 'the' photo, i doubt theres an offican photo.

Read my whole post, the part where i explain the theory of the isreali involvment. The evidence of zionists far outweighs the one tape that says bin laiden did it.

Seriously dont believe media like cnn, even if they werent all owned or run by zionists they pretty much become state-run during 'wartime' (which has been going on since 9/11).

But honestly, how could you believe the tape? How can you believe that bin laiden told the world he didnt do it and then make a tape of himself mumbling thats the cia translates into a confession that he did it and leave it in the desert?
Remember that islamic countries couldent even trans;ate the mumbling.

At 2/27/04 07:33 PM, Adun wrote: Are you saying that every other photo of bin laiden OTHER than the tape is fake? Theres not really 'the' photo, i doubt theres an offican photo.

I did actually get a copy of the tape osama confessed to on it, and he looks good enough for me. It's a bit grainy, but I reckon he's Osama.

Read my whole post, the part where i explain the theory of the isreali involvment. The evidence of zionists far outweighs the one tape that says bin laiden did it.

Just because of one website that claims all the Isrealis were warned... Do you have a link to the PAGE that claimed that. I'm hoping that the page shows me how they came to the conclusion. If I see something along the lines of An Islamic Business, operating in the twin towers was warned and evacuated quickly, it's not impressive.

Seriously dont believe media like cnn, even if they werent all owned or run by zionists they pretty much become state-run during 'wartime' (which has been going on since 9/11).

Can't fault you there.

But honestly, how could you believe the tape? How can you believe that bin laiden told the world he didnt do it and then make a tape of himself mumbling thats the cia translates into a confession that he did it and leave it in the desert?

I believe Bin Laden did it mainly for two facts.

1) He made a tape claiming to do it.
2) He hates the US because the US act like shit to anyone who doesn't give them money.

By the way, America SUPPORTS Isrealk. It's not common to bomb your allies, is it?.

Zionism : National Socialism for Jews

The Jewish people have never had a friend in both fair and foul weather. Our allies have betrayed us, deserted us in our hour of need, and killed us in unprecedented numbers using crematoria and poison gas. To be Jewish is to know that wherever you go, you'll always have to watch your back.

Unless we take a stand.

This whole thread is just a big bad joke, if you have something against zionism, go to the official thread, there you would be abel to say the stupid things you want. Besides, this whole topic is stupid for the fact that it says absolutely nothing exept for the fact "I hate Zionism". Asshole!

At 1/5/06 09:35 AM, Lidov wrote: This whole thread is just a big bad joke, if you have something against zionism, go to the official thread, there you would be abel to say the stupid things you want. Besides, this whole topic is stupid for the fact that it says absolutely nothing exept for the fact "I hate Zionism". Asshole!

Oops, sorry, my mistake, i didn't see the date on this topic, I never thought it was bumped. I am just going to get back to the Israel Related and live there alone :-(

At 2/17/04 10:26 AM, Slizor wrote: Urm.....the Israelites didn't come from Israel by their own admission. They moved in to it from Egypt.

FAIL.

Abraham is from what is today the region near Basra.

At 2/16/04 04:56 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: I wonder why the Jews can't SHARE their land with the Palestinians? </commonsense>

Fuckin A. Those evil fucks keep starting wars trying to steal more land and kill all those nice ole Palestinians.

Oops.

At 2/16/04 04:26 AM, bumcheekcity wrote: "Birthplace" of the Jewish people? What are they on? How can a 'people' hae a birthplace?

The fuck? Your right.

Fuck those damn Injuns. America isnt the birthplace of their people. Its just a place. Fo real.

At 2/16/04 04:56 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: I wonder why the Jews can't SHARE their land with the Palestinians? </commonsense>

Umm...because we bought, were given by treaty or conquered the land, dumbass? And they're terrorists who will kill, lie, cheat, steal, rape, pillage, hijack and demand what they don't have without being willing to compromise. Plus, Palestinians have no right to have what they haven't bought, weren't given by treaty or conquered.

How about this? Israelis supported the US in it's darkest hour, while the Palestinians are cheering to the death of 3,000 Americans (during 9/11).

At 1/5/06 04:02 AM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: Zionism : National Socialism for Jews

Lol, I always wondered whether or not that site was a joke. I mean: "Of all the people who have ever dealt with Jews, Rabbi Meir Kahane and Adolf Hitler were the only two honest ones. " But I have little enough faith enough in humanity to think that the makers of that site were actually serious. Morons.

Anyways, Kahanism differs only on little details from National Socialism. Zionism itself can be interpreted to a less radical extent, although it does always share the focus on race, with Lebensraum in the Urheimat Israel with nazism. Zionism however doesn't have to include the lack of value of non-Jewish life, which Kahanism does like Goldstein and the Kach movement have shown us.

At 1/5/06 09:35 AM, Lidov wrote: go to the official thread,

It's about the ideology Zionism, not about Israel. Although they are closely connected they're still seperate subjects.

At 1/5/06 07:58 PM, mackid wrote: Plus, Palestinians have no right to have what they haven't bought, weren't given by treaty or conquered.

Oh for fuck's sake, their ancestors lived there for at least 700 years until the land was conquered by or given to mere immigrants.
I mean what right did the Polish have to claim Poland after Adolf Hitler legally took their land? What right did the Kuwaitis have to claim Kuwait after Saddam's morally upstanding show of force? Why are the Tibetans still whining about China's righteous conquest of their land? Does this make sense to you?

Might does not make right.

Zionism is simply the jewish desire to return to the place where their civilization - one of the oldest in the world - origionated. If you don't oppose black people wanting to live in africa, then why shouldn't you like jews wanting to go back to Israel?

Hell i'm in favour of Zionism. Due to varying reasons. The holding of the Holy Land by a stable government that won't destroy history, a strong sensibile government in a sea of chaos, and the fact that i have an interest in archeology, this is a god send.

At 1/5/06 08:37 PM, fenrus1989 wrote: Hell i'm in favour of Zionism. Due to varying reasons. The holding of the Holy Land by a stable government that won't destroy history, a strong sensibile government in a sea of chaos, and the fact that i have an interest in archeology, this is a god send.

In fact, I agree with you. Having a pro-western government in Israel will greately increase the chances of westerners having acess to the wealth of historical receasources in cannan.

At 2/16/04 04:26 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 2/15/04 09:07 PM, MarijuanaClock wrote: Who hates it? Lol, this should be good. And of course, I do.

"Zionism is the Jewish national movement of rebirth and renewal in the land of Israel - the historical birthplace of the Jewish people"

"Birthplace" of the Jewish people? What are they on? How can a 'people' hae a birthplace?

That's not the worst of it. Technically, Jews living in Israel is against Judaism itself. The very existence of that state is heresy. But, that's what happens when you get a group that just changes the beliefs as it sees fit to suit its own benefit.

At 2/17/04 10:31 AM, Dr_Irony_Fist wrote:

At 2/17/04 10:26 AM, Slizor wrote:

The Jews fought the Canaanites out of what is known as Israel. If kicking someone out of an area makes it yours, maybe the euro-Canadians should be telling the First Nations to quit "complaining".

It matters whay you go on. For the bible, or jewish scripture(which is incredibly accurate for that time period) The Jews already lived on that land when Abraham immigrated to it, so in essence it's ensestral land.

Anyways the palestinians just moved in there when the diaspora and other event happened to the jews.

My point: Israel is no more the land of the Jews than Canada is the land of the Europeans.

Uh oh... does this make me racist?

At 1/5/06 08:43 PM, Jerconjake wrote: That's not the worst of it. Technically, Jews living in Israel is against Judaism itself. The very existence of that state is heresy. But, that's what happens when you get a group that just changes the beliefs as it sees fit to suit its own benefit.

Wow, so not true. God gave Israel to the Jews.

Also, read these words:

We were given the Holy Land by G-d in order to be able to study and practice the Torah without disturbance and to attain levels of holiness difficult to attain outside of the Holy Land. We abused the privilege and we were expelled. That is exactly what all Jews say in their prayers on every Jewish festival, "Umipnay chatoenu golinu mayartsaynu" - "Because of our sins we were expelled from our land".

We have been forsworn by G-d "not to enter the Holy Land as a body before the predestined time", "not to rebel against the nations", to be loyal citizens, not to do anything against the will of any nation or its honour, not to seek vengeance, discord, restitution or compensation; "not to leave exile ahead of time." On the contrary; we have to be humble and accept the yoke of exile. To violate the oaths would result in "your flesh will be made prey as the deer and the antelope in the forest," and the redemption will be delayed.

This comes from True Torah Jews Against Zionism.

At 1/5/06 08:30 PM, Quanze13 wrote: Zionism is simply the jewish desire to return to the place where their civilization - one of the oldest in the world - origionated. If you don't oppose black people wanting to live in africa, then why shouldn't you like jews wanting to go back to Israel?

I have no problem with blacks migrating to Africa. I also have no problem with blacks migrating to land which their ancestors hadn't controlled for about 2000 years, and in which their ancentors' people hadn't been the majority for at least 700 years. But I do however have a problem when they claim the right to have an independent state on this land, instead of these other people, based on their so-called 'birthright'.

At 1/5/06 07:58 PM, mackid wrote: Umm...because we bought, were given by treaty or conquered the land, dumbass? And they're terrorists who will kill, lie, cheat, steal, rape, pillage, hijack and demand what they don't have without being willing to compromise. Plus, Palestinians have no right

Wow, you're a total bigot; you talk about Muslims as if they were no better than dogs.

I guess it's okay though, since Jews are allowed to be fanatically racist in a negative manner.

Lapis, the "palestinians" never controlled an independent state there either. They were given the chance. They said no and started a war!

Then they lost, and now you cry for them. The fact was, they didn't want Jews there at all. They lost.

At 1/5/06 09:34 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: Lapis, the "palestinians" never controlled an independent state there either. They were given the chance. They said no and started a war!

But they had always inhabited the land, whereas the Jews were mere immigrants. The fact that they had not been independent before is irrelevant, they had only been part of larger empires but their lasting presence in the region cannot be denied. They were given the chance to accept an unrighteous proposal, but they rejected. They had the honour to not settle with only about 70% of the land they deserved, they wanted all of what was theirs, and they were right to choose so. They lost in the war, but they were still the moral victor. They started a war, but only when provoked.

Then they lost, and now you cry for them. The fact was, they didn't want Jews there at all. They lost.

Lol, crying. I just speak out against those who try to justify theft of land. Like I speak out against Stalin taking over Eastern Europe after WW2, the only difference is that there aren't people trying to justify the latter. Some however still choose to attempt to give some justifications to the act of crime called the founding of Israel, in some cases I can understand this (Lidov), but others seem to have their judgement clouded by ethnic ties. Pity.
And the Arabs didn't want Jews in their land? They didn't want an independent Jewish state on their land. Arabs and a small minority of Jews had been living in harmony in Palestine for hundreds for years, it was Zionism and Zionism alone that started the hatred in the early 20th century.

At 1/5/06 10:00 PM, lapis wrote: But they had always inhabited the land, whereas the Jews were mere immigrants. The fact that they had not been independent before is irrelevant, they had only been part of larger empires but their lasting presence in the region cannot be denied. They were given the chance to accept an unrighteous proposal, but they rejected. They had the honour to not settle with only about 70% of the land they deserved, they wanted all of what was theirs, and they were right to choose so. They lost in the war, but they were still the moral victor. They started a war, but only when provoked.

Lets start off with the fact that it is, as I said before, a lot more connected to the Israel thread, it is about Zionism no more. To answer your arguement, the Palastinians weren't always there, the Jews were always there. Although the Jews weren't a majority for a long time, they could have been if the Palastinians would have let them in. Since when is the fact that you settle in a land, which is not yours and don't let the rightful owners of it the chance to go there makes the land yours? If I broke into your house and wouldn't let you in, would it make the house mine?About "getting all that was theirs" thing, i believe that you just refuse to understand they not all really was theirs! They did not settle in most of the places which were given to the Jews by the UN, they didn't even do anything there. From the other hand, the Jews settled in the places which were unwanted by the Palastinians and wuilt houses there, grew vegetables or in short, worked things out in there. The land of Israel which you see today is not the Israel which was once like that. The only limits for it were the limit from Lebanon's side (which belonged to France) and from the sea. They didn't have the clear shape of Israel as it is today. They wanted lands which they did not settle in at all, no one even showed interest in those lands (exepct for the Jews) until the seperation program was suggetsed. There was nothing to connect the lands which was given by the UN to the Jews which the Arabas, besides the fact that they lived near it.

Lol, crying. I just speak out against those who try to justify theft of land. Like I speak out against Stalin taking over Eastern Europe after WW2, the only difference is that there aren't people trying to justify the latter. Some however still choose to attempt to give some justifications to the act of crime called the founding of Israel, in some cases I can understand this (Lidov), but others seem to have their judgement clouded by ethnic ties. Pity.

Well, I would have to say that you are exaggerating so much that it makes me angry, and you know that I don't get angry easily in debates. Compairing the foundation of Israel to a theft of land and to the take over Eastern Europ is just stupid. Firstly, the UN, which was the rightful owner of this land, was the one to say that the two nations (if you can call the Palastinians a nation) should share the land. So it is not a crime at all, calling it a crime makes baby Jesus cry. Secondly, we are the rightful owners of some of the land not only by the UN but by the laws which were made by the Turkish for this land "A settle for more than 50 years in a piece of land makes it yours". Thirdly, we were given only the parts of lands which weren't settled by the Palastinians, but were settled by Jews only. We were given Swamps and deserts which no Arab ever settled in or thought of doing it even as a joke. Fourhtly, the Arabs blew up their chance for a country, it is their fault, we said yes, they are the criminals for starting a war and refusing a UN law

And the Arabs didn't want Jews in their land? They didn't want an independent Jewish state on their land. Arabs and a small minority of Jews had been living in harmony in Palestine for hundreds for years, it was Zionism and Zionism alone that started the hatred in the early 20th century.

Well, I now see what confused you all this time, you see the palastinians here now and you think that it has been like that for "hundreds of years". well, I hope that by hunderds you mean a very few hundreds of years. In fact, Israel conained more Jews than Arabs most of the time, the Arabs only came and were a majority for less than 400 years (as it was in 1947). And yet, the Jews were still a big majority in some places, like Tveria, Tzfat, Hevron etc. so why giving those to them? Not only that, but they didn't settle in some of the places at all, they didn't settle in most of the places. It was the Palastinians who didn't welcome new comers, and they alone who started the harted in the early 20th century.