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Panning Fowards and Backwards?

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SessileNomad
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Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 17:46:27 Reply

im pretty sure we all know how to pan from left to right. automations, panning tools in the FL piano roll w/e

do any of you know if there its possible to pan the music to sound like its actually in front or behind you?

i think it would really only be audiable(sp?) if you had headphones on, but it would be a really cool effect, especially if you combined it with left and right panning, to make the music "circle" around you

if anyone knows how to pull it off, if its even possible, please let me know

Thank you

unowned
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 17:56:27 Reply

automate the volume, maybe add reverb or some effect when its lower

SessileNomad
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 17:58:22 Reply

At 9/10/09 05:56 PM, unowned wrote: automate the volume, maybe add reverb or some effect when its lower

im not really convinced that would pull it off to its full potential

i mean when i hear volume being automated, i dont get the illusion that its going forward or behind me, it just feel like its getting quieter or louder

unowned
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 18:03:47 Reply

well i dont know about that, maybe you want a doppler vst
i like this song as an example of dimension
Grateful Dead - [Anthem Of The Sun #01] That's It For The Other One

if you use fl you can use that panomatic or whatever, does it all at once

Phoog
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 18:04:02 Reply

There is an option on the Sytrus synth I found a long time ago that gives that effect.
But as for the samples, audio and other instruments, I wouldn't have a clue.

I've only really known of this being done with microphones, when recording a sound source. I don't see how you could pull it off synthetically (probably the wrong terminology but blehyou)...

I'm keeping an eye on this thread, though. This sounds interesting :)

Mich
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 18:04:32 Reply

Googled up a vst : If you're willing to spend 80 bucks on it ;) http://freemusicsoftware.net/en/plugins/
imaging_panning_spatial/3d_panner_motion _effects-652.html

Rucklo
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 18:07:47 Reply

At 9/10/09 05:46 PM, SessileNomad wrote:
i think it would really only be audiable(sp?) if you had headphones on, but it would be a really cool effect, especially if you combined it with left and right panning, to make the music "circle" around you

yes, this is correct. you will need microphones that are specialized that you actually place in your ears. that way you will have a full spatial sound, but the illusion will only work in headphones.

here's the wiki info about binaural recording.


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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 18:12:15 Reply

well, theres still 3d sound from listening to speakers, ambient music with that texture is great

loansindi
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 18:30:51 Reply

At 9/10/09 05:46 PM, SessileNomad wrote: do any of you know if there its possible to pan the music to sound like its actually in front or behind you?

The only way to make sound come from behind the listener is to put a speaker there.

Generally louder sounds tend to be more 'forward', that is, closer to the listener, but not everyone perceives it that way.

InvisibleObserver
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 18:41:37 Reply

You can generate a pretty convinving forward/back sweep using a few effects and automation. It is a fair bit of tweaking of knobs and automation though for what might be just a few seconds worth of audio. I'd say its rather fiddly to do.

The effects being used are stereo separation, faint reverb, volume, and a high freq filter.

Its a layer of effects, when the 'sound' is suposed to be behind you, its a bit more quiet, bit of reverb, no stereo seperation, and the filter is letting the higher sounds pass.

As the sound gets closer, raise the volume, lower the reverb, begin to add a bit of stereo seperation, and lessen up on the filter pass.

When the sound is supposed to be basically right on you, full stereo seperation, high folume, no reverb, and no filter.

For when the sound is supposed to be infront of you, lessen the stereo seperation, maybe lower the volume a bit, keep reverb off, and keep the filter off too.

While this will be fiddly, and not be your 100% golden solution, it mimics the effect quite well. Keep in mind the reverb and filter should be subtle changes, noticeable, but not like hemoraging your ears obvious that their there.

Hope this helps.


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SessileNomad
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-10 19:23:30 Reply

thanks for all the input guys, il be sure to give the reverb/filter/stereo sep. approach a try, even though im not quite sure it will work

ill be sure to post a demo or somthing with my results

and if all else fails, ill have to burn $80 :(
InGenius
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-11 03:13:19 Reply

http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/Prod uctInfo.aspx?productid=36-CWSF3.31-10EI

39.99$ from Sonitus, does the same thing as Mich's suggestion for cheaper. I've used the whole Sonitus line for over a year now, though I don't use it much now because I have no call for Surround, and the other plugins I've better quality analogs to, ie. Sonnox, Sonalksis, etc.

Otherwise, the stereo sep/reverb/filtering method is a sound, industry standard method used on non-surround targeted audio.

InvisibleObserver
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-11 03:37:00 Reply

Its key to remember that regardless of stereo system being used, humans have two auditory inputs, and we primarily pick sounds up clearest when in front of us. Its really not difficult to mimic the change in how we hear sounds from behind and in front of us.

I had a look at the VST's being linked here and frankly their both wastes of money. (Assuming you are a budget musician such as myself.)

Double checked what I stated earlier, it works perfectly with the proper adjustments to fit the speed and sound your doing the effect to.


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blackduckie
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-11 03:40:31 Reply

You can achieve a 3D effect with just stereo headphones, but I don't know how. I think for something to be in front of you, you need the volume quieter, and maybe have less stereo separation. Higher and lower sounds kind of correspond to ... er, literally higher and lower sounds, so you can get a feeling of altitude by adjusting filters.

There's a nice 3D effect at 3:40 in this song:

  • Helix - No. 6
    Helix - No. 6 by Helix6

    Click to listen.

    Score
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    Type
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    30,541 Views


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Quarl
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Response to Panning Fowards and Backwards? 2009-09-11 17:33:42 Reply

Surround sound?


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