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Holy Shit The Debt?

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Mehrdad14
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Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 25th, 2009 @ 10:52 AM Reply

What ever happened to that trillion debt, and when the fuck are they going to pay it to china.

Discuss.


Fate. Strength. Intelligence.

awkward-silence
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 25th, 2009 @ 11:07 AM Reply

At 8/25/09 10:52 AM, Mehrdad14 wrote: What ever happened to that trillion debt, and when the fuck are they going to pay it to china.

Discuss.

China won't call in the debt, they can't. It would be as bad for their infrastructure as it would be for ours. Right now the largest buyer of chinese goods is the united states. If they render us unable to pay for their goods, their economy will fail, and since their central bank is already on the verge of collapse, any additional adverse shocks may send the whole house of cards down.

Additionally, China is in debt themselves (to the tune of 60% of their GDP), not to us, mostly to Europe. Calling in a 1 trillion dollar debt and financially crippling an ecnonomy the scale of the US would trigger a mass recall, in which all nations holding debt will call it in, this means that Germany, France, and the UK which would in turn cripple china's economy and probably start a global depression.

The only option China has is to no longer purchase US debt, which is something they are considering.

morefngdbs
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 25th, 2009 @ 11:23 AM Reply

I read in the BBC today that Obama has reappointed Ben Bernanke to a second term as Chairman of the Federal Reserve ! ! !
So here's a guy who is "supposedly" in charge of the illegal Banking Institution ( as per the U.S. Constitution ) who was part of why everything failed in the first place....but with a 700 billion dollar bail out, that has now balloned to over 3 TRILLION dollars of taxpayers money ( you are now on the hook as tax payers for this debt)
Your President is confident that everything he's done has helped save the failing US economy ! ! ! !

HOLY FUCKIN' SHEEP SHIT BATMAN.... that is extremely fucked up guy's. You have put a group of foxes in charge of the henhouse & the chickens are getting royally FLEECED . If there was a goose that laid golden eggs...this guy & his cronies would have cut it open long ago to see if they could "improve" its laying abilities, even if doing so would kill it !


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ohbombuh
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 25th, 2009 @ 07:55 PM Reply

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think they may be secretly hoping that someone just overthrows the whole beaurocracy and careless acts like the debt was never there. Of course, it would be nearly impossible to pull off, and who really would want to fix all the new problems we have with fixing the economy and health care system, or trying to get a political agreement on issues like abortion and same gender marriage? Seems that we need a "deus ex machina" here (sorry if the spelling is off, I'm bad at literature).


The simple fact is that some people will never be happy, no matter how good their lives are.

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Mehrdad14
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 25th, 2009 @ 09:38 PM Reply

fail more... (to all those gay theories)


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Dawnslayer
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 25th, 2009 @ 11:10 PM Reply

Question: if all the nations of the world agreed to dispose of all fiscal debts owed unto each other, what would be the ramifications (positive or negative)?

hansari
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 12:53 AM Reply

At 8/25/09 10:52 AM, Mehrdad14 wrote: What ever happened to that trillion debt, and when the fuck are they going to pay it to china.

Discuss.

This is how we take care of the debt...

jeffamphetamines
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 02:49 AM Reply

National Debt doesnt really matter because it is money that we owe to ourselves. So even when the federal government just pays the interest on the National Debt it is infusing dollars into our economy

SmilezRoyale
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 08:39 AM Reply

At 8/25/09 11:07 AM, awkward-silence wrote:
China won't call in the debt, they can't. It would be as bad for their infrastructure as it would be for ours. Right now the largest buyer of chinese goods is the united states. If they render us unable to pay for their goods, their economy will fail, and since their central bank is already on the verge of collapse, any additional adverse shocks may send the whole house of cards down.

I don't see why China needs America to consume their goods for them in return for a bunch of IOU's.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

morefngdbs
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 09:34 AM Reply

At 8/26/09 08:39 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
At 8/25/09 11:07 AM, awkward-silence wrote: China won't call in the debt, they can't.
I don't see why China needs America to consume their goods for them in return for a bunch of IOU's.

;;;
China has last I checked almost 10% of US debt owed to it.
The had (a quick look at a gogled website) March 2009 China had control of 768 Billion Treasury Securities.
If China refused to take American Securities or attempted to rid themselves of them by selling them off to others , they would quickly devalue !
THat devaluation would not only hurt China (seeing as they wouldn't be able to get back what they're owed) it would do serious damage to the American Dollar on all World markets.
Recently the Chinese have been pushing for a stable international currency & have been unloading some American Securities/ money by lending it to other Nations & there by securing trade opportunaties & repayment in other meidums (good's , raw matrerials, etc)

This of course doesn't solve the problems of American debt. major financial organizations, businesses, the very wealthy are choosing to put their savings & capital into other forms of wealth besides American Dollars & securities...
See this article...American tax payers pay 450 billion a year just in interest payments on the debt ! ! !
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/03/13/
business/econwatch/entry4864398.shtml


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Toadenalin
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 10:25 AM Reply

At 8/26/09 02:49 AM, jeffamphetamines wrote: National Debt doesnt really matter because it is money that we owe to ourselves. So even when the federal government just pays the interest on the National Debt it is infusing dollars into our economy

This.

You can safely run any level of national debt you like as long as
a) Everyone continues to believe you will pay at some point in the future (otherwise you get massive inflation)
b) You are prepared to accept lower economic growth in the future in exchange for higher growth now (otherwise you're just rolling over the debt)

SmilezRoyale
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 11:09 AM Reply

At 8/26/09 09:34 AM, morefngdbs wrote:
;;;
China has last I checked almost 10% of US debt owed to it.
The had (a quick look at a gogled website) March 2009 China had control of 768 Billion Treasury Securities.
If China refused to take American Securities or attempted to rid themselves of them by selling them off to others , they would quickly devalue !
THat devaluation would not only hurt China (seeing as they wouldn't be able to get back what they're owed) it would do serious damage to the American Dollar on all World markets.

Well yes, China would temporarily experience a bit of a slap in the face for trying to sell those securities. I think in the long run the leaders of China will realize that their people will be better off if America is left out of the loop; once they're finally convinced that those IOU's we call dollars aren't backed by any goods work buying from America now nor in the present.

The only major industries i know of that have grown are the Health, Education, and government sectors.

Once they realize this I think they'll figure out that even if they experience a temporary loss, it's worth getting rid of the dollar NOW as quickly as possible before more debt continues to escalate.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

morefngdbs
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 11:23 AM Reply

At 8/26/09 11:09 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
At 8/26/09 09:34 AM, morefngdbs wrote:
;;;
China has last I checked almost 10% of US debt owed to it.
Once they realize this I think they'll figure out that even if they experience a temporary loss, it's worth getting rid of the dollar NOW as quickly as possible before more debt continues to escalate.

;;;
As I previously mentioned...China is looking for ways out.
One way they have found is they are investing 200 million US dollars in Zimbabwe !
They are goin gto back up this loan by setting up a mining concession with Zimbabwe for about half of its Platinum reserves which are projected at being a pay day to China . The deal will top out at about 5 BIllion American dollars being paid to Zimbabwe by China & they stand to recoup this by getting at least 40 Billion US worth of Platinum !

So China gets rid of 5 billion toxic American securities & gets 40 billion dollars worth of Platinum ( a real asset AKA something of worth )
There's more than one way to skin a cat & I'm will to bet my cutting my dick off, to China looking at other needy 3rd World Countries looking for money , that if they have the raw materials or assets that have 'real' value...China will be more than willing to hand out more of the American Securities !


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Der-Lowe
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 11:55 AM Reply

At 8/25/09 10:52 AM, Mehrdad14 wrote: What ever happened to that trillion debt

Still there, and it is bound to increase by 9-14 trillion in the next 10 years.

At 8/26/09 02:49 AM, jeffamphetamines wrote: National Debt doesnt really matter because it is money that we owe to ourselves.

Erh, not quite. For the government to repay its debts it has to raise more taxes than it normally would. Taxes are "bad" in the sense that they reduce economic efficiency: if we tax, let's say, cheese, then there will be less cheese produced. When the government raises taxes to pay for debt, it hurts the economy.
There is also a negative effect when the govt takes the loan: since the govt competes with all the other businesses for capital, as the govt borrows money, interest rates rise, "crowding out" economic activities which are sensitive to the interest rate, namely, investment.


The outstanding faults of the economic society in which we live are its failure to provide for full employment and its arbitrary and inequitable distribution of wealth -- JMK

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awkward-silence
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 12:31 PM Reply

At 8/26/09 08:39 AM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
I don't see why China needs America to consume their goods for them in return for a bunch of IOU's.

Because by holding onto debt, they keep the dollar inflated, which allows them to sell their goods to their cheif market at a higher price. Since China's Debt is 60% of their GDP (Remember GDP=Cunsumption+Investment+Government Expenditure+Net Exports), killing their largest buyer of chinese goods and largest propoller of chinese industrialization would not be a slap in the face it would be sepuku.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/post/quote /19896872

I did a Thesus paper on the subject last semster at Michigan State.

awkward-silence
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 12:33 PM Reply

^--- but apparenlty I'm still retarded

Here the tab link I meant to copy

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2 009/02/why_china_needs_us_debt.html

hansari
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 02:14 PM Reply

You are all unpatriotic discussing our debt so negatively!!

America NEEDS the money hole!!!

morefngdbs
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 26th, 2009 @ 02:34 PM Reply

At 8/26/09 02:14 PM, hansari wrote: You are all unpatriotic discussing our debt so negatively!!

;;;;
I wonder what art of " I AM A CANADIAN " you don't understand !

Theres lot's of people who come here who are from other places than the USA .

shocking isn't it !

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jeffamphetamines
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 27th, 2009 @ 02:43 AM Reply

At 8/26/09 11:55 AM, Der-Lowe wrote:
At 8/25/09 10:52 AM, Mehrdad14 wrote: What ever happened to that trillion debt
Still there, and it is bound to increase by 9-14 trillion in the next 10 years.

At 8/26/09 02:49 AM, jeffamphetamines wrote: National Debt doesnt really matter because it is money that we owe to ourselves.
Erh, not quite. For the government to repay its debts it has to raise more taxes than it normally would. Taxes are "bad" in the sense that they reduce economic efficiency: if we tax, let's say, cheese, then there will be less cheese produced. When the government raises taxes to pay for debt, it hurts the economy.
There is also a negative effect when the govt takes the loan: since the govt competes with all the other businesses for capital, as the govt borrows money, interest rates rise, "crowding out" economic activities which are sensitive to the interest rate, namely, investment.

I would like to point out on your response that you say that we raise taxes in order to pay for the national debt. Your are obviously mistaken as we use our taxes to do things like cash for clunkers, Stimulus bill (to save jobs of course, and of course for national park fundings) i believe we only spent about 11 percent of it to. But my point being we don't care about national debt it has never ment anything and never will. Our projected national debt is going to be 9 trillion dollars. If it were an issue we would have stopped spending or idk maybe set a budget plan. But with our oh so brilliant president who cannot fail because he is you know THE LEADER OF THE BLACKS believes solving our preexisting overspending by well overspending.

Der-Lowe
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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 29th, 2009 @ 11:55 AM Reply

At 8/27/09 02:43 AM, jeffamphetamines wrote: I would like to point out on your response that you say that we raise taxes in order to pay for the national debt. Your are obviously mistaken as we use our taxes to do things like cash for clunkers, Stimulus bill (to save jobs of course, and of course for national park fundings) i believe we only spent about 11 percent of it to.

That's irrelevant, I'm saying that EXTRA debt means extra interest, and that extra interest has to be paid with extra taxes.

But my point being we don't care about national debt it has never ment anything and never will. Our projected national debt is going to be 9 trillion dollars. If it were an issue we would have stopped spending or idk maybe set a budget plan. But with our oh so brilliant president who cannot fail because he is you know THE LEADER OF THE BLACKS believes solving our preexisting overspending by well overspending.

So first you say it does not matter, but then you say it does? :\


The outstanding faults of the economic society in which we live are its failure to provide for full employment and its arbitrary and inequitable distribution of wealth -- JMK

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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 29th, 2009 @ 12:04 PM Reply

China's debt is good debt as opposed to ours.

America has debt because of our defense and huge social programs.

China has debt but I suspect they are getting ROE(Return on Equity) meaning they are investing their debt rather than throwing it to the wind as Americans do. While they are spending their money building bridges and promoting industry were buying healthcare and giving out handouts to "underprivelaged"

If I could instill any one lesson on the next generation, it would be this.

Learn Mandarin, you'll need it.

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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 29th, 2009 @ 06:44 PM Reply

At 8/29/09 12:04 PM, TheladiesMan47 wrote: China's debt is good debt as opposed to ours.

America has debt because of our defense and huge social programs.

Huge social programs? The US has the most poor welfare programs of the developed world.
The reason for the US debt has historically been war, since it makes sense to have an unbalaced budget when the existence of the state itself is at risk, and more recently, tax cuts.


The outstanding faults of the economic society in which we live are its failure to provide for full employment and its arbitrary and inequitable distribution of wealth -- JMK

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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Aug. 30th, 2009 @ 04:30 PM Reply

At 8/29/09 12:06 PM, Ericho wrote: Heck of a good thing I signed up for getting money from this website.

Hey, I got my first seven cents today! Thanks everybody and may you all do as much as you can to get more people to view your profile.


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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Sep. 7th, 2009 @ 10:28 PM Reply

At 8/26/09 02:14 PM, hansari wrote: You are all unpatriotic discussing our debt so negatively!!

America NEEDS the money hole!!!

Well, even if it is unpatriotic, this debt will come back to us someday, and the solution is probably going to start a newe host of problems.


ADAM ALMIGHTY

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Response to Holy Shit The Debt? Sep. 17th, 2009 @ 10:51 AM Reply

At 8/26/09 11:23 AM, morefngdbs wrote: As I previously mentioned...China is looking for ways out.
& I'm will to bet my cutting my dick off, to China looking at other needy 3rd World Countries looking for money

;;;
Seen here today on the BBC news under the America's section.
China signs a deal to pay Venezuela $16 BILLION American dollars to explore & develope an oilfeild in that Country.
China is moving very quickly to spend off American Dollars, for something that actually has worth !
They have done an about face in reguards to holding large sums of US bonds & securities that have nothing of value backing them up ! ! !


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