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At 8/26/09 05:19 PM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: Its a shame that we have to use logic in everything, because it blinds us from faith and the spiritual.

It is never a "shame" to take the logical path in any kind of situation. If I had a treatable disease, would it be a shame for me to make the logical decision to use medicine rather than rely on some kind of spiritual force to save me from death? No, it's common sense.

It's almost like you're saying that you'll accept logic when it's convenient for you but anything that doesn't really affect your life in any major way can have all this 'faith' and 'spirituality' thrown in for the sake of it. It only suggests that you are insincere in your beliefs.

At 8/26/09 06:17 PM, yurgenburgen wrote:

At 8/26/09 05:19 PM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: Its a shame that we have to use logic in everything, because it blinds us from faith and the spiritual.

It is never a "shame" to take the logical path in any kind of situation. If I had a treatable disease, would it be a shame for me to make the logical decision to use medicine rather than rely on some kind of spiritual force to save me from death? No, it's common sense.

It's almost like you're saying that you'll accept logic when it's convenient for you but anything that doesn't really affect your life in any major way can have all this 'faith' and 'spirituality' thrown in for the sake of it. It only suggests that you are insincere in your beliefs.

I mean it is a shame that humans can not accept certain religions that do not use logic, but use spirituality. Logic is a great thing and I myself base my beliefs completley on logic, and partly on spiritual beliefs. I am just saying that sometimes we need to look into non logical things like hope when it seems impossible, faith when all seems lost, jesus christ when ther is no way a magic man could heal people, a god, e.t.c. It is ok sometimes just to believe.

At 8/26/09 07:37 PM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: I mean it is a shame that humans can not accept certain religions that do not use logic, but use spirituality.

Logic by definition is reliable information. If a religion or ideology or whatever deliberately uses something other than logic to explain things, it is therefore unreliable, which totally explains why people don't accept those sets of beliefs. The majority of people 'accept' other peoples' beliefs in that they tolerate them and support everyone's right to believe whatever they want, but it's unreasonable to expect people to just accept a set of beliefs as having any kind of intellectual value when they are by definition completely unreliable.

I am just saying that sometimes we need to look into non logical things like hope when it seems impossible, faith when all seems lost,

You seem to be mixing up two different things, firstly: Hoping for something unlikely to come true, and secondly: Believing that something unlikely is true. They are not the same thing.

jesus christ when ther is no way a magic man could heal people, a god, e.t.c. It is ok sometimes just to believe.

But isn't that just too easy? If someone genuinely propagates faith then they should lead by example and use faith at every possible opportunity. Would god be ok with his followers only showing faith when it suits them?

At 8/26/09 08:19 PM, yurgenburgen wrote:

At 8/26/09 07:37 PM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: I mean it is a shame that humans can not accept certain religions that do not use logic, but use spirituality.

Logic by definition is reliable information. If a religion or ideology or whatever deliberately uses something other than logic to explain things, it is therefore unreliable, which totally explains why people don't accept those sets of beliefs. The majority of people 'accept' other peoples' beliefs in that they tolerate them and support everyone's right to believe whatever they want, but it's unreasonable to expect people to just accept a set of beliefs as having any kind of intellectual value when they are by definition completely unreliable.

Most people who are truly one with their set of beliefs, if the beliefs are illogical such as christianity, they do NOT look into logic, they look into spiritual evidence and to the bible for backup. Priests ''brainwash'' them into believing that jesus christ is real. They tell them hundreds of things that backup the existence of jesus and god, yet most of them are either from the bible or illogical. Since the bible is extremely misinterpreted, it is technically illogical to believe in it.

What i have come to realize is that, not everything is meant to be logical. We need to open our minds to new ideas instead of being so stubborn. I have talked to many priests and wise old christians many times in the past, and all of them have told me that they truly believe in jesus christ because they dont let the devil, logical thinking trying to convince you jesus isnt real, proove jesus doesnt exsist. The reason being is that they truly have felt his presence, talked top him, felt his love, felt his compassion, learned, gained, helped others, and they are truly happy. This has made me understand that this imaginary figure has helped people in their lives more than any other 'real' thing has. i have come to understand that the reason so many people believe in these religions are because they make them happy. they make them think they actually can communicate with a god, that they actual have a purpose in the universe.

All in all, Id rather believe in the existence of god than not believe at all. ITS LOGICAL TO BELIEVE RATHER THAN NOT. Plus, I use many scientific FACTS to backup the existence of a God. I have even talked to this god, felt his presence, prayed to him and received answers, e.t.c. So I believe in a god, i believe that no one is wrong in their beliefs unless it involves the killing of another man, and I believe. I have faith.