My Philosophical Beliefs. *Discuss*

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

Before you read this really really long post, please pay attention to the fact that this is a serious discussion thread so if you dont feel like being serious right now, then you probably wont want to waste your time reading below. I felt like making this topic because I have been studying philosophy for some time now and feel the need to discuss my beliefs with a group of people. I am no expert, but I love discussing these things.

*ahem*

Starting in 2001, I went to a camp in Arkansas called "Camp Ozark" It is a christian camp based on Jesus christ as our savior and lord. I became interested in religion as a small child, mainly thinking this man with a large beard was the best guy in the universe. The camp taught from the bible, grabbing verses and backing them up with logical thinking and evidence... or what we would think would be logically since we believed as true christians that a man did have the power to heal the blind with a touch of the forehead. So yes, we believed in the supernatural and treated it as logic, as most christians do. *Just the belief in jesus is the supernatural so thats why i say "most" christians"

I went there from 2001 to 2008. I loved that camp and still do, not because they insisted that we believed in jesus christ but because it taught me some MASSIVE things about religion and a persons path in it. For instance, I was told over and over again that I would go to hell if i didi not believe in jesus christ. This made me believe in him, just as it does to every other christian. I mean jeez if I have to worship this guy wearing sandals in order to avoid a firery pit of doom for all internity, sign me up! Actually, if you do go by the bible, heres something to think about: No where does the bible talk about hell being a torturous place of fire and excruciating pain. The only thing even close to that is it mentioning brimstone,which symbolizes death. The bible says hell is basically a separation from God. Even so, when I leanred this I still wanted to believe in Jesus bcause this God guy seemed like a marvelous man to be around. So I was told to believe in Jesus if I wanted to be with God. Personally I think thats the worst thing I was ever told...

The reason is because after my final year at camp ozark in 2008, I began my journey to using all of the things I had been taught to believe and start being closer to God. Let me tell you, I felt fantastic. I felt like I could pray for anything and god would answer. Everytime I was depressed I prayed and i felt better. I would ask for signs and whenever one was given I felt closer. I looked for a religious group to join, i did not and still do not believe in church because the churches near me all are corrupt, so I decided to join a cult. Yes thats right, a cult. When you hear the word "cult" you think OH THATS BAAD. It isnt, trust me. Some cults are bad yes, but this one was.. just incredible. The leader was a 60 year old man who believed he was the 7th deciple. My NG buddy Andrew *spikevallentine*, and two other guys and girls were in the group. The leader would talk to us one by one, teaching us about God and many things that gave me a very close spiritual presence with God. This man was one manipulative wise man... I cant even begin to explain how he convined you everything he was saying was true. I always have been a logic man and hell, everything he said sounded logical. I was in my room one night and I actually saw a large blue face hover over my bed. He told me I would see some sort of very large and obvious sign leading me into gods arms. This completley freaked me out... I was so so so happy. Sadly... I realized I was blind.

I slowly began to realize that everything I was being taught was a form of brainwashing. Its what all cults do. He did not mean any harm, I am convinced he is a very good man, but he was still brainwashing me into believing certain things. I dont want to go too much into detail, but basically i believed i could jump in front of a bullet and god would protect me. I realized I was blindly believing in signs and something called numberism. *looking for numbers leading to signs which get you closer to god, like the number 7*

To make a long long long long long story short that I will slowly begin to explain to various people in this thread throughout the discussion, I set a few certain beliefs in stone.

1.) There was a man known as Jesus way back when, he was extremley wise and knew much science that people did not know about back then. He developed medicne that would cure wounds, he did surgery that made people see again, e.t.c. He believed he was the son of god, as many many many people have in the past. The difference was that he wasnt crazy. He was one of the most brilliant men to ever live. He was basically the king of all priests, spreading his beliefs of religion and philosophy. However, he was not the son of god. He did not save us from our sins. The reason so many people believe that he did is because prreachers tell us we will go into excruciating pain and fall into hell if we do not believe in this man. We become frightened and scared. We believe in Jesus as our savior.

2.) God does exsist. He.she/it whatever god is, is an all knowing spiritual powerful force within the universe that makes everything work. It would not be possible for everything to work perfectly in nature without some sort of force, known as God. For example, you know what a tree is right? That log that purtrudes from the ground with some grees leaves on top? Yeah that thing. Look a bit closer. You see some bark. Get a microscope out and look at the bark. you see thousands of cells on this 2 by 3 inch piece of bark. Look deep into one cell. You see a system or microscopic organs that make one living cell work. Get an electron microscope. Now you see more componets of organs composed in one organ. Look deeper. You see more and more things making one part of an organ of an organ work. Look deeper far beyhond anything you can see. You would see something called an atom. An atom is very VERY VERRYY SMALL. There are about 100 billion atoms inside this period --> . Thats about 15 times the size of earths population. Which is A LOT. Say you looked deeper. You would see some electrons, neutrons, and protons. First electrons. Look MUCH DEEPER you would see the nucleus, composed of protons and neutrons. *its like a pin in the middle of a baseball stadium, the baseball stadium being the atom and the pin the nucleus* Look even deeper. You see particles that make up those particles called quarks, photons, upper quarks, tons and tons of little things so small.. there are about 100000000000 trillion of them in this period -----> . *probably much more* Look even deeper. You dont know what you would see. You would have no idea. No one would. Why? Because we dont know. What I am getting at is that just one incy tiny weeny bit of space is so complex that is is nearly impossible for even a simple string of hair to maintain its structure functionally without ripping apart and going in and out of the dimensions of time and space. Life is so so so so so so so complex, that for all of these things to work together is.. is just incredible. I believe that there is a god because of this.

3.) I believe that this "God" that every religion worships in mono or multiple forms rather it is a spirit, a god of war, a cow, e.t.c. is basically the same thing. The reason is because, every god has one thing in common. It/she/he is something/someone that a person believes in to be guided through life by an all knowing power. It gives humans the sense that we actually have a purpose in this universe. That we mean something. You know how children have imaginary friends and believe in Santa Claus? See the look on their face during christmas when they think some fat man broke into their house and gave them gifts? Thats pure joy. That joy is what we get if we are truly close to whatever god we believe in. The joy is "God" *yes i am saying to a child santa is their god.*

***continue reading below***

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

4.) Every religion is right. The main purpose for religion is to create a set core of beliefs that one uses to be guided through life and what its difficulties. It sets a certain "perspective" about the universe around one and all in all makes one fill spiritual. It doesnt matter what you believe in the end, because every belief is believed because one likes the belief! *UNLESS IT IS FORCED ON ONE, AS IN UR PARENTS BEAT U FOR NOT BELIEVING SOMETHING. THAT IS NOT RELIGION.* If you truly believe in something, like on a simple scale that you like cookies, then your gonna go and eat a cookie! If one truly believes in god, its because he/she likes God!The indians dont believe in cows as gods just as some sick cruel joke, they truly believe that they are gods because they grew up with a certain set of beliefs that gave them the perspective that cows are gods. Satanists believe in satan as their god, and i know some satanists that are trully happy. They are not bad people. Noone is bad for their religion. The only thing i can think of as a bad religion is wanting suicide to be closer to god... although, it makes one happy in the end.

You know when i said i was truly happy when i was believing in jesus and was truly close to god? There was no problem with it, but my belief was that I was being blinded by it and not focusing on getting by in every day life, like making money. My dream is to become a game designer and I would not have gotten anywhere with those beliefs. I would have become a preacher, which is not a bad thing at all, I just wanted it a different way! It doesnt matter what you believe... ITS ALL UP TO YOU AND WHATEVER GOD YOU BELIEVE IN. Dont let ANYONE tell you your beliefs are wrong, EXCEPT FOR YOURSELF. You will know if something is going awry in your beliefs when YOU realize it, not when someone says HEY DONT BELIEVE THAT.

In the end, you will develop a unique set of beliefs with yourself and your god. If you belief t because you were raised that way, so be it. Go for the belief the best you can. If you beleif it because a preacher taught you things throughout your life, belief if you want to! In the end, it will help you through life and give you a certain sense of purpose. You wouldnt be better off without religion because your happy and thats all that matters. *you become happy once you truly believe in your god*

*whew*

ALRIGHT DEBATE DEBATE DEBATE!

[Digital-Terror]

I'll admit I was getting bored with this thread until I read "spikevallentine".

At 8/22/09 12:36 AM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: 2.) God does exsist. He.she/it whatever god is, is an all knowing spiritual powerful force within the universe that makes everything work. It would not be possible for everything to work perfectly in nature without some sort of force, known as God.

Well, as logical a person as you seem to be, I have to disagree with you. Would it make more sense if the universe was driven by several distinct forces, known as physics, or by some guy, known as God?

For example, you know what a tree is right? That log that purtrudes from the ground with some grees leaves on top? Yeah that thing. Look a bit closer. You see some bark. Get a microscope out and look at the bark. you see thousands of cells on this 2 by 3 inch piece of bark. Look deep into one cell. You see a system or microscopic organs that make one living cell work. Get an electron microscope. Now you see more componets of organs composed in one organ. Look deeper. You see more and more things making one part of an organ of an organ work. Look deeper far beyhond anything you can see. You would see something called an atom. An atom is very VERY VERRYY SMALL. There are about 100 billion atoms inside this period --> . Thats about 15 times the size of earths population. Which is A LOT. Say you looked deeper. You would see some electrons, neutrons, and protons. First electrons. Look MUCH DEEPER you would see the nucleus, composed of protons and neutrons. *its like a pin in the middle of a baseball stadium, the baseball stadium being the atom and the pin the nucleus* Look even deeper.

Seems mostly good so far.

You see particles that make up those particles called quarks, photons, upper quarks, tons and tons of little things so small.. there are about 100000000000 trillion of them in this period -----> . *probably much more*

Actually, it's probably no more than a few billion in that period. A trillion quarks could fit into a grain of salt, but that;s ONLY if they were side by side, compressed at the rate of a neutron star would.

Just so you know, you CANNOT comprehend 1 trillion. 1,000,000,000,000 is just too much for your mind to handle.

Look even deeper. You dont know what you would see. You would have no idea. No one would. Why? Because we dont know. What I am getting at is that just one incy tiny weeny bit of space is so complex that is is nearly impossible for even a simple string of hair to maintain its structure functionally without ripping apart and going in and out of the dimensions of time and space. Life is so so so so so so so complex, that for all of these things to work together is.. is just incredible. I believe that there is a god because of this.

It could just be a massive coincidence. Like two charged particles of space dust coming together, Life could have just happened by chance.

Of course, there are other theories, like frozen. microorganisms coming to this planet via comets. I suggest you look into that.

I don't have much more to say. I suggest you try to find a few people taht share your beliefs and build on your theories.

[Gortag]

Out of curiosity,how long did it take you to write this?

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

At 8/22/09 12:47 AM, Digital-Terror wrote: I'll admit I was getting bored with this thread until I read "spikevallentine".

Well, as logical a person as you seem to be, I have to disagree with you. Would it make more sense if the universe was driven by several distinct forces, known as physics, or by some guy, known as God?

Yes. The reason being, physics backs up my statement. The probability of Physics working correctly is still MASSIVE. Physics is even more complex than what I described about atoms! Its just crazy how it all works, and for it to be CREATED is way behyond my understanding. The big bang happening is insane to think about.

Seems mostly good so far.

You see particles that make up those particles called quarks, photons, upper quarks, tons and tons of little things so small.. there are about 100000000000 trillion of them in this period -----> . *probably much more*

Actually, it's probably no more than a few billion in that period. A trillion quarks could fit into a grain of salt, but that;s ONLY if they were side by side, compressed at the rate of a neutron star would.

A Quark can supposably go in and out of dimensions along with photons and other micro particles. It gets pretty complex with the whole String Theory. Plus, quarks are so small we dont even know if they actually exsist. *though technically we dont even know if molecules exsist, we just call all the tiny masses that make chemisrty and certain physical laws work correctly molecules.*

Just so you know, you CANNOT comprehend 1 trillion. 1,000,000,000,000 is just too much for your mind to handle.

Yes i completley agree, and there are particles that small. Thats why I think life is just so incredibly amazing. *I do believe I was exaggerating a bit when explaining quarks, but it still is a HUGE number*

....stuff stuff stuff

It could just be a massive coincidence. Like two charged particles of space dust coming together, Life could have just happened by chance.

See now THATS illogical. Thats like putting a corvett in a car crusher and it coming out without a scratch, when the car crusher was working fully functionaly and the car was crunched up and somehow uncrunched to near perfection. The probability of that happening is just like.. NO WAY.

So how were those particles of space dust created? That space dust is matter and we really dont even know if matter exsisted, we just develop theories of how it all began.

Of course, there are other theories, like frozen. microorganisms coming to this planet via comets. I suggest you look into that.

I have seen those and think they are fascinating. I dont think that has to do with what I was talking about though.

I don't have much more to say. I suggest you try to find a few people taht share your beliefs and build on your theories.

Well thanks a lot for the respond. I love discussing philosophy with my friends.

[Digital-Terror]

Yes. The reason being, physics backs up my statement. The probability of Physics working correctly is still MASSIVE. Physics is even more complex than what I described about atoms! Its just crazy how it all works, and for it to be CREATED is way behyond my understanding. The big bang happening is insane to think about.

I personally don't agree with the big bang theory. It's unlikely that there was just some explosion that made all the matter in to universe, even if it was produced in a quantum vacuum.

However, we still understand the fundamentals of physics well enough to effectively use it.

A Quark can supposably go in and out of dimensions along with photons and other micro particles. It gets pretty complex with the whole String Theory. Plus, quarks are so small we dont even know if they actually exsist. *though technically we dont even know if molecules exsist, we just call all the tiny masses that make chemisrty and certain physical laws work correctly molecules.*

Anything on the quantum scale should be able to achieve quantum tunneling, which is when they "jump" around. But, you're right; we don't really know if quarks actually exist or not.

We're pretty certain that molecules exist. Molecules are atoms bond together, either in a covalent or ionic bond. Are you sure you're certain about molecules? We're able to see atoms, so clearly we're able to see molecules.

It could just be a massive coincidence. Like two charged particles of space dust coming together, Life could have just happened by chance.

See now THATS illogical. Thats like putting a corvett in a car crusher and it coming out without a scratch, when the car crusher was working fully functionaly and the car was crunched up and somehow uncrunched to near perfection. The probability of that happening is just like.. NO WAY.

Well, no... You see, there are an estimated 9 quintillion stars in the universe, which is:

9,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. Within that many stars, it's totally possible that life happened through chance, or most likely, more than once.

So how were those particles of space dust created? That space dust is matter and we really dont even know if matter exsisted, we just develop theories of how it all began.

Space dust and interstellar gas are atomic particles that were ejected into space through a supernova or a hypernova. After they break free of the gravitational pull of the solar system, they just float around in space.

Of course, there are other theories, like frozen. microorganisms coming to this planet via comets. I suggest you look into that.

I have seen those and think they are fascinating. I dont think that has to do with what I was talking about though.

It's just a possibility that could coincide with your theory, if you put some thought into it.

Well thanks a lot for the respond. I love discussing philosophy with my friends.

Friends?

... :D

[TacticalShoe]

Believe what you wanna believe as long as it doesn't bother me.

Enough for me.

[pikmints]

Yes I see what you are getting at. I too theorized at one point that everything that the human race praises is merely their interpretation of the same idea. To those that believe cows are sacred (not gods, sacred, there's a difference) they see that a creature that eats an extremely common plant and produces milk, meat, tools (bones), clothes (leather), life, and is not naturally violent as a gift from the supernatural being. Any gift from him must be revered. Also when you mentioned everything is composed of something, your right. Logic states that everything is composed of something, and that would be an infinite loop had we not the knowledge of god. You have used your logic wisely, don't keep constantly trying to make up new logical theories because somewhere down the line, lets just say problems will occur. Just make theories as they come to you, don't induce them. Now I have a question for you, why do I feel so distant from him. I go to church, I pray often, I try to spread his word, I went to a catholic school most my life, I revere him above all else, and yet I feel that he is giving me too many burdens for me to bear. I've been suicidal for years now and I feel that way mostly because, I believe he's all powerful, can change anything in an instant, even our will and still have it be our will, and yet 90% of the events and details of my life are negative, and those that are positive aren't even worth the other 90%. He could have made me happier as well as keep me the way I am today, Why does he not want me to be happy. Is there a chance he wants me to commit suicide?

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

I personally don't agree with the big bang theory. It's unlikely that there was just some explosion that made all the matter in to universe, even if it was produced in a quantum vacuum.

I dont really care for the big bang theory because honeslty we wont ever truly know what happened. No matter how it happened, it happening is still amazing.

Anything on the quantum scale should be able to achieve quantum tunneling, which is when they "jump" around. But, you're right; we don't really know if quarks actually exist or not.

Ahh quantum physics... even MORE complex. See where im getting at? Its just so beyond our comprehension!

We're pretty certain that molecules exist. Molecules are atoms bond together, either in a covalent or ionic bond. Are you sure you're certain about molecules? We're able to see atoms, so clearly we're able to see molecules.

We cant actually see atoms, there is not one picture of an actual atom in detail. We only predict what they look like based off of many scientific models, which went to one agreed by the scientific community of an atom havin electron clouds surrounding a very small nucleus. The pictures taken of what they say are atoms are no where near close enough to see the actual atoms or even molecules. A lot of scientific "facts" about microscopic things such as atoms and molecules are developed through what the scientific community agree on as the molecule structure and atomic structure.

Well, no... You see, there are an estimated 9 quintillion stars in the universe, which is:

9,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. Within that many stars, it's totally possible that life happened through chance, or most likely, more than once.

Well yes, but you have to think from everything happening by chance from the very begginning. I dont think the begginning just randomly happened. I do believe that because of so much space in.. space, that tons of things happen just by chance. I am talking about the BEGGINNING though, not if life was created by chance on one of 9 quintillion stars.

So how were those particles of space dust created? That space dust is matter and we really dont even know if matter exsisted, we just develop theories of how it all began.

Space dust and interstellar gas are atomic particles that were ejected into space through a supernova or a hypernova. After they break free of the gravitational pull of the solar system, they just float around in space.

But how was the supernova created? e.t.c e.t.c.

Of course, there are other theories, like frozen. microorganisms coming to this planet via comets. I suggest you look into that.

I have seen those and think they are fascinating. I dont think that has to do with what I was talking about though.

It's just a possibility that could coincide with your theory, if you put some thought into it.

Well thanks a lot for the respond. I love discussing philosophy with my friends.

Friends?

... :D

OH LOL. I mean I enjoy discussing philosophy, as I do many times with my friends here at home. LOL.

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

At 8/22/09 12:53 AM, Gortag wrote: Out of curiosity,how long did it take you to write this?

about 45 minutes, I was interested in starting this and had nothing to do. ;)

At 8/22/09 01:14 AM, pikmints wrote: Now I have a question for you, why do I feel so distant from him. I go to church, I pray often, I try to spread his word, I went to a catholic school most my life, I revere him above all else, and yet I feel that he is giving me too many burdens for me to bear. I've been suicidal for years now and I feel that way mostly because, I believe he's all powerful, can change anything in an instant, even our will and still have it be our will, and yet 90% of the events and details of my life are negative, and those that are positive aren't even worth the other 90%. He could have made me happier as well as keep me the way I am today, Why does he not want me to be happy. Is there a chance he wants me to commit suicide?

I to have been suicidal for years and very depressed. A relative question, do you take Streterra? if so I can easily explain why you feel that way. If not, it is difficult but I will try my best.

Basically you need to look at the positive side of life. Even if your life does suck, your surroundings can completely vanish if you wish to become truly close to God. When you are truly close to god, it doesnt matter if your life sucks. This power will basically create a bubble of happyness around your sad thoughts. You till will be sad from time to time, everyone is, but you will be able to "talk" to this god every night and gain strength to push on because you truly BELIEVE he is there. You dont doubt him. Faith is the right word to go for.

God does not want you to commit suicide. If nature "chooses" you as a scapegoat for the next person to die to make way for a new life, you would have been killed by nature. This is when you would come into gods arms when he meant for you to. AND EVEN IF YOU DONT, YOU WILL DIE BELIEVING YOU WILL! PURE PURE JOY!!! You will never even know if you DIDNT get into his arms, because if there is no life after death at least you would experience a last moment of such wonderful joy because you had a passionate belief in your god. I would strongly recommend talking to a preacher, he can help you become closer to god with beliefs from the bible. The cool thing is, the bible provides tons of backup evidence to help guide you. *even if it is written by man, many believe in it because it makes them happy and guides them like every religion does*

IF you believe he wants you to commit suicide.. then I have no say in the matter. I dont recommend suicide because in the end you will gain so much from life. So much wisdom. Life is a blessing, dont waste it. Some people are born into terrible conditions and life is AWFUL for them. Yet you see them, india is a prime example, start believing in a "god" and they are happier than they ever would have been without one. THEY GAIN STRENGTH. Even in Africa!! Children dying from aids is just a part of nature, it might be considered a bad thing but death is a part of LIFE. Disease occurs, because it is the cycle of life. These atoms bonded together to form viruses and such to lower the population of each organism. Every organism can get some sort of disease or infection and die. Its so a new one can be born.

If you want to go into the Jesus christ road and try to become spiritually inclined with christianity, which makes you truly happy for a period of time if you continue to believe in jesus and that god answers prayers, then I recommend talking to SpikeValentine and if you are comfortable, ask to speak with Brother Daniel. This is the cult I was speaking of. It is kind of weird at first, but damn this guy is good. Real good. Feel free to turn him down as well, he is a very nice guy and will fully understand.

Hope this helps. :)

[REDSPADES]

You've got a pretty good view of religion, it seems you have a really acceptable view of things to do with religion, its refreshing to see someone who isn't a bitching whingey atheist loser on the BBS.

I for one believe there is a god out there, but i dont think i should be sticking to concrete rules of a singular religion, and denouncing others but more accepting them.

I believe that when you die you start anew, like a dream, when you die or your heart stops you have about 12 minutes of brain activity, and the average person dreams for about 2-3 seconds, that is REM recorded sleep, but when you think about dreaming, it seems to last for hours on end. Maybe those 12 minutes are a whole other lifetime.

I like to think of it when you're a baby who doesn't remember the first few years of living, but then you get used to it, just like when you dream, it takes you a little while before you realise you're having a dream but when you do you go along for the ride.

How's your brain btw? Are you alright?

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

At 8/22/09 01:59 AM, REDSPADES wrote: You've got a pretty good view of religion, it seems you have a really acceptable view of things to do with religion, its refreshing to see someone who isn't a bitching whingey atheist loser on the BBS.

Thanks. I still am no where near where i should be, however. I have a lot a lot alot of growing up to do. I havent even experienced college yet! I am still young and nieve and need to understand life a bit more.

I for one believe there is a god out there, but i dont think i should be sticking to concrete rules of a singular religion, and denouncing others but more accepting them.

Exactly. I tried a bit of Buddhism, now thats a nice religion.

I believe that when you die you start anew, like a dream, when you die or your heart stops you have about 12 minutes of brain activity, and the average person dreams for about 2-3 seconds, that is REM recorded sleep, but when you think about dreaming, it seems to last for hours on end. Maybe those 12 minutes are a whole other lifetime.

I know what you mean. Dreaming is a magical thing and is truly one of the coolest experience I ever have had. Onetime I dreamt what seemed almost a year... i woke up feeling very drowsy thinking i had been asleep forever. It was 10 o clock in the morning, my usual time to wake up.

I like to think of it when you're a baby who doesn't remember the first few years of living, but then you get used to it, just like when you dream, it takes you a little while before you realise you're having a dream but when you do you go along for the ride.

I have that SAME idea! My baby years flew by.. exactly like a dream! Man thats deep.

How's your brain btw? Are you alright?

Im fine thanks for asking! The tumor was benign and harmless. two plates in my skull shifted up against eachother causing a slight bump in the back of my head. I dont even need to remove it. :)

[Smokey651]

At 8/22/09 01:59 AM, REDSPADES wrote: its refreshing to see someone who isn't a bitching whingey atheist loser on the BBS.

They give us atheists who have actually read holy books and searched for beliefs and decided they didnt believe in any god a bad name.

I decided to become an atheist after questioning my previous beliefs as well as others beliefs. I also read a decent portion of The Bible, Torah, and Book of the Dead. (And want to read the Quran)

So, since I have found my true beliefs in questioning my original ones, I would like to convince you to question yours. (which it sounds like you have to a certain degree, but not on a high enough level in my opinion)

Have you specifically looked at the bible and the christian religion only? Or have you exposed yourself to other beliefs? Have you ever thought about looking at other religions? Or possibly reading the bible from a non religious view?

If your willing to question what you believe I would strongly suggest the following:

Reading the bible in a non religious way (This is something hardly anybody does.. you have to sit down, and treat it like any other book. And then look at how it was written, was the story told well? Did it get it's point across (All writing is persuasive)? Was the information consistent? Do i believe this is fiction or non fiction?)

Read the book of the dead (Written by the ancient egyptians 2500 years or more before the events of the bible occurred. Concentrate on the story of Horus and look for similarities between Horus and Jesus)

Read the torah (If you read the bible, you've pretty much read the Torah, all it is, is the old testament minus a book or two... basically)

If you get a chance, touch on the Quran, and get an understanding of what Islam teaches.

I can't say I've completely done all of the things i just listed, but I have for the most part looked at the bible, torah, and book of the dead.

(I really encourage christians to read the book of the dead simply because of the incredible similarities between Horus and Jesus... it suggests plagiarism in the bible)

So here is what I believe:

I believe that there is DEFINITELY no Jesus
I believe that there is no god (There is a chance i could change my opinion on this.. but it is highly unlikely. I do consider myself an atheist rather than an agnostic. But if i did change my opinion, i would believe in judaism, not christianity.)
I believe in evolution
And for the most part i believe in metaphysical naturalism.

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

At 8/22/09 02:39 AM, Smokey651 wrote:

At 8/22/09 01:59 AM, REDSPADES wrote: its refreshing to see someone who isn't a bitching whingey atheist loser on the BBS.

They give us atheists who have actually read holy books and searched for beliefs and decided they didnt believe in any god a bad name.

Indeed. They teach that if you do not believe in god, you are a bad person. It is also a sort of society belief since many people believe it is a bad thing. In reality, it isnt. At all.

I decided to become an atheist after questioning my previous beliefs as well as others beliefs. I also read a decent portion of The Bible, Torah, and Book of the Dead. (And want to read the Quran)

I to want to read the quran, it is a fantastic book says my friend and I am planning on strting on it sometime this weeken, if i have the time.

So, since I have found my true beliefs in questioning my original ones, I would like to convince you to question yours. (which it sounds like you have to a certain degree, but not on a high enough level in my opinion)

Are you asking me this question or red? Even so ill answer. And I question my beliefs every single day, evolving them into better and more senseful ideas. :)

Have you specifically looked at the bible and the christian religion only? Or have you exposed yourself to other beliefs? Have you ever thought about looking at other religions? Or possibly reading the bible from a non religious view?

I am not a fundamentalist because the bible has many things that are misinterpruted, plus has some very questionable stories and versus... for example, when noah got on land after the flood, he became extremley drunk and passed out. When his son woke him, he got angry and sold the son into slavery. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?!

I have, however, discovered the basic beliefs of many different views and religions because I know many people with multiple beliefs. I have sat down and had conversations with them about their opinions in the world and for religion. Throughout each of these beliefs I have formed my opinion that not one religion is wrong, which you may have read about above.

If your willing to question what you believe I would strongly suggest the following:

Reading the bible in a non religious way (This is something hardly anybody does.. you have to sit down, and treat it like any other book. And then look at how it was written, was the story told well? Did it get it's point across (All writing is persuasive)? Was the information consistent? Do i believe this is fiction or non fiction?)

I did that actually. This is when I realized that many of my christian beliefs were simply illlogical, although i was happy at the time so i probably should have just stuck to it... but i am still gaining much wisdom through this experience of the current views i have now. I still believe that we can communicate with God.

Read the book of the dead (Written by the ancient egyptians 2500 years or more before the events of the bible occurred. Concentrate on the story of Horus and look for similarities between Horus and Jesus)

Yeah, many religions have a certain jesus like character, and everyone thinks that that character is jesus so we say many other religions talk about jesus as well, which I think is complete BS.

Read the torah (If you read the bible, you've pretty much read the Torah, all it is, is the old testament minus a book or two... basically)

If you get a chance, touch on the Quran, and get an understanding of what Islam teaches.

I can't say I've completely done all of the things i just listed, but I have for the most part looked at the bible, torah, and book of the dead.

(I really encourage christians to read the book of the dead simply because of the incredible similarities between Horus and Jesus... it suggests plagiarism in the bible)

They probably shouldnt do that if they want to keep their christian beliefs. IF THEY TRULY BELIEVE, however, then they wont ever question their beliefs. You want to know why preachers are preachers? Cause they do not question the word of god. They are still happy and they are very nice people, nothing wrong with it at all.

So here is what I believe:

I believe that there is DEFINITELY no Jesus
I believe that there is no god (There is a chance i could change my opinion on this.. but it is highly unlikely. I do consider myself an atheist rather than an agnostic. But if i did change my opinion, i would believe in judaism, not christianity.)
I believe in evolution
And for the most part i believe in metaphysical naturalism.

Thats very nice! You do not have to burden yourself with the difficulties that come with religion. Keep believing and this nature will guide you through life on your perspective. You might try harder at something than anyone else because you dont believe god will do it for you, like many athletes believe and it gives them strength to fight, but for you you would train yourself to fight for yourself!

[Piss]

I wonder how many stupid, sarcastic posts were deleted in this thread.

I wonder if this post is going to get deleted.

Let's find out.

[lilfozzy]

At 8/22/09 02:39 AM, Smokey651 wrote:

At 8/22/09 01:59 AM, REDSPADES wrote: its refreshing to see someone who isn't a bitching whingey atheist loser on the BBS.

They give us atheists who have actually read holy books and searched for beliefs and decided they didnt believe in any god a bad name.

I decided to become an atheist after questioning my previous beliefs as well as others beliefs. I also read a decent portion of The Bible, Torah, and Book of the Dead. (And want to read the Quran)

So, since I have found my true beliefs in questioning my original ones, I would like to convince you to question yours. (which it sounds like you have to a certain degree, but not on a high enough level in my opinion)

Have you specifically looked at the bible and the christian religion only? Or have you exposed yourself to other beliefs? Have you ever thought about looking at other religions? Or possibly reading the bible from a non religious view?

If your willing to question what you believe I would strongly suggest the following:

Reading the bible in a non religious way (This is something hardly anybody does.. you have to sit down, and treat it like any other book. And then look at how it was written, was the story told well? Did it get it's point across (All writing is persuasive)? Was the information consistent? Do i believe this is fiction or non fiction?)

Read the book of the dead (Written by the ancient egyptians 2500 years or more before the events of the bible occurred. Concentrate on the story of Horus and look for similarities between Horus and Jesus)

Read the torah (If you read the bible, you've pretty much read the Torah, all it is, is the old testament minus a book or two... basically)

If you get a chance, touch on the Quran, and get an understanding of what Islam teaches.

I can't say I've completely done all of the things i just listed, but I have for the most part looked at the bible, torah, and book of the dead.

(I really encourage christians to read the book of the dead simply because of the incredible similarities between Horus and Jesus... it suggests plagiarism in the bible)

So here is what I believe:

I believe that there is DEFINITELY no Jesus
I believe that there is no god (There is a chance i could change my opinion on this.. but it is highly unlikely. I do consider myself an atheist rather than an agnostic. But if i did change my opinion, i would believe in judaism, not christianity.)
I believe in evolution
And for the most part i believe in metaphysical naturalism.

i believe in evolution infact the bible if you look at it a serten way even promotes that
cus if god can be in eny form and if he made us in his image also he could of made us in his image over a long time and also how do you say it wen a rock star in wrote a book on drugs i think his name ais ricky 6 or something like it but i read it and he states both in the book and out of the book that there is a god he wrote it after he o.d on drugs and got a shot of adrenaline to the heart and was vary lucky to get his heart started again

[misterchees0]

God goes against every law of nature, avery law of physics.. everything.

But still, people continue to believe in the scam.

I mean, for fucks sake, some people 2000 years ago decided that they wanted to become powerful, so they started to say:

Pray for god, you'll go to heaven,
Don't pray, and you're going to hell, buddy.

Threatening eternal suffering (based on what?) was bad enough, so people decided to follow.

I believe Jesus was a good man, but he wasn't holy or supernatural. People wrote a book, probably over-stating everything.

They used people, based on mystery. Since no one knew (or knows), what happens after death, they all got afraid, and then christianity spread.

That's how religion is a scam.

I should write a book sometime :D

[lilfozzy]

i am a unemist witch is just a name i made for it im most likely the only one that thinks my way

i believe in pure peace but through death and in the end for this world thats all there is i am no communist or socialist altho many have sed i am before hearing my full statement i believe that the only way the world will have peace is if some one conquers it and if no one will then there will forever be borders and it world not just be the human race but factions that are looking for there next big score

2 to the unemist
this is no religion nor is it a government it is a mind set and i believe that every religion should be respected no matter what they believe and if this world uses nukes and destroys itself in world war 3 it just proves to my fact and what also proves unemist is that the nazis took over EURIPE and that the romans took over almost all the known would at there time but the thing is that the leaders of them wore not looking out for the people they conquered

this is all i really feel i want to sum up rate now cya round

[Ericho]

Dude, that is fantastically brilliant! You should make a YouTube video talking about this or something. You can even respond to my video View, rate, comment, and subscribe!

[Aughiris]

PETER, GET MA SHOTGUN BOY

WE AV ANOTHER GOD BELIEVAH

FAKKING DUMSACKS

[lilfozzy]

what do you mean and did you say that to me and dude please in your video put some cloths on

[Smokey651]

At 8/22/09 11:47 AM, lilfozzy wrote:

i believe in evolution infact the bible if you look at it a serten way even promotes that
cus if god can be in eny form and if he made us in his image also he could of made us in his image over a long time and also how do you say it wen a rock star in wrote a book on drugs i think his name ais ricky 6 or something like it but i read it and he states both in the book and out of the book that there is a god he wrote it after he o.d on drugs and got a shot of adrenaline to the heart and was vary lucky to get his heart started again

It's very difficult for me to read that, but if i'm not mistaken, you are trying to convince me that there is a god because this ricky guy was on the brink of death and then was brought back to life (and claims himself that there is a god)?

If that is what you are trying to tell me, then what do you call it when someone is perfectly fine and drops dead? Is that proof that there is no god?

I apologize if that is not what you were stating earlier

[Smokey651]

At 8/22/09 11:36 AM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote:

At 8/22/09 02:39 AM, Smokey651 wrote: Read the book of the dead (Written by the ancient egyptians 2500 years or more before the events of the bible occurred. Concentrate on the story of Horus and look for similarities between Horus and Jesus)

Yeah, many religions have a certain jesus like character, and everyone thinks that that character is jesus so we say many other religions talk about jesus as well, which I think is complete BS.

Well, if you read the book of the dead. You'll see that horus isn't just a jesus like character. It's "Jesus". It's harder to find differences between horus and jesus than it is to find similarities.
It REALLY suggests that the story of jesus was plagiarized and that he didn't exist.

The reason I will never be christian is because of the book of the dead.

[lilfozzy]

well eny thing is better then being a atheist at-least anything im a unemist and if you read my thread on this page then you know that i have to hold myself to my mind set but im just saying that ive read many many books on these types of things and watch many programs on religion but hey i mean im not vary angry at eny other infact i understand the reason of muslims and even those that still worship thor and Zeus

but hey the only thing i truly hate in this world is scientology its a vary bad religion that the guy that made it was just looking to make money of his false cause

[Digital-Terror]

Perhaps later I can move on to your other ones.

At 8/22/09 01:25 AM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote:

Anything on the quantum scale should be able to achieve quantum tunneling, which is when they "jump" around. But, you're right; we don't really know if quarks actually exist or not.

Ahh quantum physics... even MORE complex. See where im getting at? Its just so beyond our comprehension!

Over time, we will learn. At the rate scientific knowledge is expanding, I wouldn't be surprised if they can unlock a few more secrets within our lifetimes.

We cant actually see atoms, there is not one picture of an actual atom in detail.

We can use a scanning electron microscope to see atoms, but you're right in the sense that we haven't seen the nucleus.

However, I think it would be possible to look at protons, like if you can take the electron away from a hydrogen atom.

We only predict what they look like based off of many scientific models, which went to one agreed by the scientific community of an atom havin electron clouds surrounding a very small nucleus. The pictures taken of what they say are atoms are no where near close enough to see the actual atoms or even molecules.

I think I agree here.

:A lot of scientific "facts" about microscopic things such as atoms and molecules are developed through what the scientific community agree on as the molecule structure and atomic structure.

Well, we can definitely see molecules with a scanning electron microscope. We can also tell which atoms are which because of how many electrons they have.

Hey, if you like, you could even use a spectroscope to see what atoms are in whatever you're looking at. This is how we have been able to tell what the composition of stars are like, because we know what the spectral pattern of atoms are.

Well, no... You see, there are an estimated 9 quintillion stars in the universe, which is:

9,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. Within that many stars, it's totally possible that life happened through chance, or most likely, more than once.

Well yes, but you have to think from everything happening by chance from the very begginning. I dont think the begginning just randomly happened. I do believe that because of so much space in.. space, that tons of things happen just by chance. I am talking about the BEGGINNING though, not if life was created by chance on one of 9 quintillion stars.

I'm not talking about the beginning here, but what happened eventually, a few billion years after the beginning.

It's totally possible that some "God" fellow is going around in the Multiverse placing these little orbs that will explode and send a whole bunch of atoms everywhere, but you could say it's just as likely that the space between universes is a pure quantum vacuum, and that they just pop out over the eternity...

Of course, that last paragraph was just speculation. It could be possible, but I'm likely wrong.

So how were those particles of space dust created? That space dust is matter and we really dont even know if matter exsisted, we just develop theories of how it all began.

Space dust and interstellar gas are atomic particles that were ejected into space through a supernova or a hypernova. After they break free of the gravitational pull of the solar system, they just float around in space.

But how was the supernova created? e.t.c e.t.c.

When a supergiant/hypergiant star reaches the end of their life, they implode, then they explode and send all their matter into space, which creates a nebula. This is how our sun, Sol, was created.

Well thanks a lot for the respond. I love discussing philosophy with my friends.

Friends?

... :D

OH LOL. I mean I enjoy discussing philosophy, as I do many times with my friends here at home. LOL.

:3

[FatKidWitAJetPak]

At 8/22/09 11:50 AM, misterchees0 wrote: God goes against every law of nature, avery law of physics.. everything.

On the contrary god MADE every law of physics, every law of nature, everything, or at least in my belief.

But still, people continue to believe in the scam.

It is not a scam. If it was a scam do you really think that such a large population of people would be christians? It is a way of life and people enjoy it, so they continue to believe in their god to give them strength to fight for their lifes and push forward, reaching their goals and dreams. Even people who do not believe in god have a passion for their belief, and it gives them a certain perspective on life in which helps them push forwared. Read what I said to the atheist earlier in this post.

I mean, for fucks sake, some people 2000 years ago decided that they wanted to become powerful, so they started to say:

Sicne man exsisted we have wanted to believe we have a purpose in life and that we can actually communicate with teh heavens in the form of spirituality. So we have formed thousands of different sets and forms of beliefs to help us in life.

Pray for god, you'll go to heaven,
Don't pray, and you're going to hell, buddy.

I agree that forcing someone to believe this brainwashing belief is an awful thing because it takes a long time to shake the feeling that you are going to hell when you quit Christianity, however it still keeps many christian which gets them closer to their lord.

Threatening eternal suffering (based on what?) was bad enough, so people decided to follow.

They said this because you will suffer a great deal when you do not believe anymore, as you would if you quit ANY belief! You will feel remorse for stopping believing and become depressed. They made it seem like you are trailing away from god and it is a bad thing, it is not a bad thing.

I believe Jesus was a good man, but he wasn't holy or supernatural. People wrote a book, probably over-stating everything.

Dont even get me started on the bible...

They used people, based on mystery. Since no one knew (or knows), what happens after death, they all got afraid, and then christianity spread.

That's how religion is a scam.

I should write a book sometime :D

Maybe you should READ a book sometime such as focusing on other religions rather than thinking religion is a bad thing. You choose to not believe in religion, when we all should have some sort of belief in religion to help us push forward. Your looking at it like mankind made the terrible atrocity known as religion... when in reality, rteligion helpes people every single day.

[ChaDMcBaDD]

i completely agree with you on point #2

[igott]

1) TL;DR.
2) I'm surprised that a few people care about your preachings.
3) You're not going to convince an atheist to become a Christian. You're making yourself look intolerant and closed-minded.

[TheSovereign]

At 8/22/09 12:36 AM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: 1.) There was a man known as Jesus way back when,

No, to assert this is ridiculous. It was 100 years AFTER anything was recorded about Jesus. Not only that, Jesus pretty much fits the archetypical prophet or saint which was set in place by earlier religions.

2.) God does exsist. He.she/it whatever god is, is an all knowing spiritual powerful force within the universe that makes everything work. It would not be possible for everything to work perfectly in nature without some sort of force, known as God.

Well, to be honest with you, you clearly aren't very observant of the universe. While you where trying to remember bible verses when your science teacher was attempting to teach you something. Everything in the universe is chaotic. On an atomic scale, atoms are fusing and reacting and changing. In the wild, every life form is struggling day and night to get ahead. On a universal scale, super novae are going off, black holes are swallowing up existence itself. This doesn't seem like the creation of a logical or loving being. Besides, for every scientific mystery, we've never had to come up with a supernatural explanation. Through science humanity didn't have to attribute the sun rise, the formation of planets, the formation of a solar system, or even the formation of a galaxy to a supernatural explanation. Science has a good track record of explaining things. And as of yet, there is absolutely no need for a god.

3.) It gives humans the sense that we actually have a purpose in this universe. That we mean something.

Sorry, but we don't have a purpose beyond reproducing. While the evolutionary path we took has allowed us to do what other animals can't, it doesn't really mean we're special. Just because some of us can read and write and do a bit of math, it doesn't mean we are the masters of the universe. If you really need to believe that you and the rest of humanity is the spawn of an all mighty creator you are not only weak minded but arrogant. It is this belief that has allowed man to trash the earth; the only life bearing vessel we know of.

Anyway, you may believe you're beyond those who follow organized religion, but that doesn't change the fact that you pulled all this out of your ass. You are still just as delusional as you where before.

[yurgenburgen]

At 8/22/09 12:36 AM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: 2.) God does exsist. He.she/it whatever god is, is an all knowing spiritual powerful force within the universe that makes everything work. It would not be possible for everything to work perfectly in nature without some sort of force, known as God.

I disagree with that. You're basically just saying "I can't explain how everything works, so god must have done it". I can't explain how everything works in nature either, but that doesn't mean we have to go jumping to conclusions like that. It just seems like you're trying to convince yourself that god is real for personal reasons rather than for an actual explanation for the universe and nature and so on.