At 8/24/09 06:27 PM, Warforger wrote:
He did, Stalin took the 2nd most amount of casualties in the entire war, thats almost as bad as losing the war in general.
Almost, but then who did lose the war in general? Thats right Hitler.
Yah he learned from his mistakes, in the process losing ALOT of men. Hitler CAN compare with Stalin, Stalin couldn't conquer Finland, while Hitler could conquer most of Europe.
What? Sorry but by 1945 there were a million soviet troops in Poland, Romania, Yugoslavia, Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Hungary, checkoslovakia, Austria and, of course, a nice big chunk of Germany. And guess what? They weren't leaving, oh no, in fact they'd still be there for another 45 years. they might even have taken over France, Italy, the low countries and the rest of Germany if it weren't for the western allies. So, in fact Stalin did take over a vast swath of Europe, and could have taken over a huge chunk more if things turned out differently. But more importantly, that empire lasted, not for half a decade, but for half a century. So I think that, yes, at the end of the day Stalin was more successful than Hitler.
*facepalm* That point has already been shot down.
Care to explain?
No they were. About half the armies invading Russia IIRC were Romanian, or at least a good portion. Please go do your research before sounding like a idiot.
First of all, the only army group where the foreign troops were deployed in the eastern front was army group south, Both army group north and army group centre were almost totally devoid of non-German troops. Second the total number of foreign troops was waaaay less than half, according to my good friend, H.P Wilmott the amount of foreigners involved in the initial invasion was 500,000 compared to 3.2 million German troops, so please don't pull out dumb figures out of your ass like that, makes you look bad. Third, the amount of foreigners involved in Russia increasingly fell as they were reluctant to commit to an increasingly deadly war from which they had nothing to gain, or just fell out of the war altogether(often allying themselves with the allies in fact). Fourth, as i thought i had already made clear to you, but obviously not, they were usually of very low quality compared to the Germans so their battle effectiveness was massively reduced. K?
wtf? Wow go kill yourself. Really. Just do it.
Lol, running out of ammo I see, Don't worry this'll be short and (relatively) painless.
You mean like conscripting the people they liberate?
Meaningless, Whether or not they conscripted non-Russians means nothing when the vast majority of those in their army were native Russians ready and willing to destroy the Nazis.
Not when you severed communication lines.
WTF? You do realize that the Germans, in fact, lost the war, and DIDN'T conquer Russia do you not?
-_- You mean like the American forces did? Yah I thought they won.
Completely out of context but I'll give it a shot. The Americans had a very clear and obvious objective, Drive the Nazis from their occupied territory in northern Europe and invade the country if necessary through the low countries to try to reach Berlin and end the war. On the other hand, in Russia the Germans were Flitting between Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and whatever other place seemed to strike Hitlers fancy on a good day, Resulting in confused and indecisive attacks and an inability to fully exploit breakthroughs. And, at the end of the day, the Americans and Russians could absorb mistakes that the Germans simply could not, their war machine couldn't cope with as many screw up ups as their enemy's. Thus comparing it to the Americans is stupid, they had the resources to focus on three separate fronts all at once and with the maximum of effort, something of which the German leaders could only dream.
To gain more territory and make themselves more proud of there country, not to mention to exploit the lands resources just like everyone had been doing at the time (America, Britain, France, Spain, Japan, Italy and Russia all did this so its not exclusive). If you wanna see this multiplied 10x worse go see the wars before WWI.
Thus it was an unnecessary war which Germany didn't need and gained nothing and lost everything. Hitler lead his country to ruin for a stupid reason (why on earth would Germany NEED lebensraum?, place seems fairly okay without it) and hence he cannot be considered a great leader for taking such an outrageous gamble.