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At 8/20/09 08:08 PM, fli wrote: We shouldn't make him suffer, but we should keep him in prison until he dies.

Thats compassion that I can agree with. Keep him in prison...allow his family to be flown in and visit him if they want.

At 8/20/09 07:12 PM, hansari wrote:

At 8/20/09 06:33 PM, Mr-Pope wrote: Also fair play to the Scotch, not bowing to Yank pressure.

Dipshit. Obama did not instill any pressure. He even said the man deserves "house arrest" showing just how out of touch he is on this terrorist attack.

Hilary Clinton made a last minute phone call to the Scottish Justice Secretary urging him to change his mind, calling his release "utterly wrong", pretty certain that could be classified as "Yank pressure".

Dipshit.

At 8/20/09 08:10 PM, hansari wrote:

At 8/20/09 08:08 PM, fli wrote: We shouldn't make him suffer, but we should keep him in prison until he dies.

Thats compassion that I can agree with. Keep him in prison...allow his family to be flown in and visit him if they want.

Indeed.

He wanted to die on his native soil? we could have made everyone happy by taking him back to his home country, then putting a bullet in his head. That way, he could have exactly what he wanted, and he wouldn't be able to inspire a new generation of jihadists.

At 8/20/09 06:59 PM, Sweeper128 wrote: We have his pride, but give him what little dignity he has left.

As someone who is genetically predisposed to prostate cancer and watched as his own grandfather died from it... he doesn't have any dignity left at this point, and if he does, he certainly won't for very long.

That being said, he could have just as easily died in prison as he could have at home.

We don't need an American backlash due to an understandable, yet unpopular choice chosen by MSP Kenny McAskill.

Well, then you should have thought of that before letting the guy loose. You're going to reap what you sew now.

At 8/20/09 08:41 PM, Mr-Pope wrote:

Dipshit.

Hmmm...

At 8/20/09 05:11 PM, Proteas wrote: I don't know if you've seen the news, but that guy was able to get off the plane under his own power with a modicum of assistance from guards. He's still physically viable to a point, and barring the cancer having gotten into his brain, probably still mentally viable as well. As such, he's still a threat. Might not be one for much longer, but I think he should only have gone home if he had to be CARRIED out of that plane with a ventilator tube shoved down his throat so he couldn't talk.

I seriously doubt he's going to be planning and executing an attack in his last three months. It's not enough time to get a plan and co-conspirators together, and he's certainly not fit to help with anyone else's plans.

It's also worth noting that his case was under appeal (the primary evidence came from a shopkeeper who only identified him after reading an article in which his name was connected to the bombing), but the appeal was dropped once they found out that he was going to get compassionate release.

I believe the sentence was life in prison, was it not?

So unless he's being moved to a Libyan prison or prison run hospital, how exactly is this a promise kept?

He was given something called a "life sentence." Under Scottish law, there is a provision for a life sentence to be deferred on compassionate grounds if the prisoner is terminally ill.

It's pretty hard in most countries to lock someone up with no chance of being released for any reason ever. Even in TMNT 4 for the SNES when Master Shredder banishes the Turtles to a time warp from which he claims they will never return, they still make it back to the present after beating him up.

Really? I could have swore you at one point in time said they were supposed to rot and ruminate over your actions. Somebody who frequents this board on a regular basis did.

I don't think I ever said that a life sentence was intended to be a fate worse than death (although in some cases it definitely could become that), but if I ever did, I believe I was wrong.

At 8/20/09 08:41 PM, Mr-Pope wrote: Hilary Clinton made a last minute phone call to the Scottish Justice Secretary urging him to change his mind, calling his release "utterly wrong", pretty certain that could be classified as "Yank pressure".

Did you fail reading comprehension? "Urging" someone is one thing. "Pressuring" someone is another thing.

ex. Clinton asked the Scottish to please reconsider their decision. Clinton "urged"/ asked them nicely.

ex. Reagen told PATCO he would fire them if they did not end their strike. Reagen "pressured" them/ threatened them.

Do you get the difference now? ......Dipshit.

At 8/20/09 11:22 PM, hansari wrote:

ex. Reagen told PATCO he would fire them if they did not end their strike. Reagen "pressured" them/ threatened them.

That was due to the contract they signed, thereby breaking the law.

At 8/20/09 10:48 PM, Elfer wrote: He was given something called a "life sentence." Under Scottish law, there is a provision for a life sentence to be deferred on compassionate grounds if the prisoner is terminally ill.

He did not commit some white-collar crime... he was a mass murderer. (he gave up his appeal, to walk free. Seems he's less concerned with his family name being associated with "terrorism", and more receptive to being cheered by his countrymen.)

If I see one more person utter the word 'dipshit' to someone else in this thread I'm getting out my ban stick.

*Glares at hansari and Mr-Pope*

On the topic at hand, to be quite honest, him going back to Libya is probably putting him in a worse state than he would be in Britain. Medical treatment isn't as good, I doubt he's got the money to actually pay for the drugs he needs himself. So his lfie is gonna be made worse by the fact he's back in Libya AND Britain no longer has the cost of keeping the guy comfortable and alive.

This might not be 'justice' in the legal sense of him leaving Prison, but to be quite honest there is a certain amount of poetic and karmic justice about this, and to be quite honest I'm happy with that. The guy is going to spend the last days of his life in a shit hole of a country with a shit medical system which will cause him more pain and suffering than he ever would have had in Britain. In a way, by being compassionate to the guy, the Scots have kicked him in the crotch whilst he's on his death bed.

I dont care if people justify it by saying he has pancreatic cancer, and will die really painfully and slowly. Good, he deserves dying painfully and slowly, and why not add to it by keeping is cancerous ass in jail for those last 3 months of his life? He showed no mercy to all those people who were killed, and has yet to state even a fake apology, so why not show no mercy on him, and leave in a cell til he dies of cancer

At 8/21/09 09:56 AM, dudewithashotgun29 wrote: He showed no mercy to all those people who were killed, and has yet to state even a fake apology, so why not show no mercy on him, and leave in a cell til he dies of cancer

Well, there is also the fact that there's a distinct possibility that he didn't even do it. At least some of the families who were affected by the Lockerbie bombing have said they don't think he did it, and the guy was due for an appeal which was supposed to demonstrate how he didn't do it.

But of course which such things as this, rationality and reason are usurped by a lust for vengeance and idiocy.

The dude is dead in 3 months give or take. What difference does this actually make at all? Apart from, I dunno, improving relations with Libya consideirng the Libyan government has praised the ' brave decision' that was taken. The only negative thats plausible is that people mght hail him as a martyr, guess what, if he actually did do it, then chances are he's going to be martyr regardless of whether or not he got let out to die, or died in jail so him being let out has had no affect.

At 8/21/09 09:56 AM, dudewithashotgun29 wrote: He showed no mercy to all those people who were killed, and has yet to state even a fake apology, so why not show no mercy on him, and leave in a cell til he dies of cancer

;;;
We had a guy here in Nova Scotia, who served 11 years in prison for murder.
A murder he didn't commit.
He always said "I didn't kill him" He refused to admit it in prison & without admitting it he wasn't going to be eligible for parole ,so he would do the whole life sentence of 25 years minimum. If we had a death penalty there's the chance he would have been killed/executed.
Well He was proven to be telling the truth, the real killer was caught & he was let out of prison ! ! !

In checking out this story , seems this guy also refuses to take any blame & has always stated he wasn't involved, and new evidence has been found which seems to back up his story.
BBC News is where I found this this morning.
IF the Nova Scotian man I'm talking about was found to be innocent, isn't it possible this man could be as well ?

At 8/20/09 11:20 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: The guy has terminal prostate cancer. The rest of his life is going to be a very slow and painful death. And by the rest of his life I mean the 3 months that he's estimated to have left.

Do they perhaps feel that having him die a slow, painful death would be worse than executing him?

At 8/21/09 10:08 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Apart from, I dunno, improving relations with Libya consideirng the Libyan government has praised the ' brave decision' that was taken.

Is everyone just glossing over the part where I say Libya has claimed responsibility for the attack but never apologized for it? (cause they believe it was right)

I didn't realize the Western world was suddenly in the mood to form friendships with actualterrorist states. Why not North Korea, Iran or Hamas in Gaza then?

At 8/21/09 05:50 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Libya is probably putting him in a worse state than he would be in Britain. Medical treatment isn't as good, I doubt he's got the money to actually pay for the drugs he needs himself. So his life is gonna be made worse by the fact he's back in Libya AND Britain no longer...

You don't think concessions for him won't be made? He is being hailed a hero... and heroes are always treated well.

If he only has 3 months to live that's all the more reason not to release him. If these Muslim extremist blow themselves up when they have a whole life ahead of them imagine what one whos about to die either way will do.

At 8/20/09 10:48 PM, Elfer wrote: It's not enough time to get a plan and co-conspirators together, and he's certainly not fit to help with anyone else's plans.

And you're how many hundreds of miles away from me, yet we can talk to each other in an instant with the most minimal of efforts?

It's also worth noting that his case was under appeal (the primary evidence came from a shopkeeper who only identified him after reading an article in which his name was connected to the bombing), but the appeal was dropped once they found out that he was going to get compassionate release.

I would think the fact that his lawyers gave up the appeal sooner than clearing his name would be more interesting, but to each his own.

It's pretty hard in most countries to lock someone up with no chance of being released for any reason ever.

Then why call it a "life sentence?" Just call it what it is; prison detention of an indeterminate amount of time. That's fair, isn't it? You take somebody's life with premeditation on the act, and you get... 8 years? 10? 20? Sounds fair to me.

At 8/21/09 05:50 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Medical treatment isn't as good, I doubt he's got the money to actually pay for the drugs he needs himself. So his lfie is gonna be made worse by the fact he's back in Libya AND Britain no longer has the cost of keeping the guy comfortable and alive.

I hope everyone reading this realizes that the "3 months to live" statement is only given in the best of circumstances when medical help is readily available. If this guy is terminally ill to the point that the best medicine can offer is three months, he's fucked without medical treatment. I give him a month, month and a half at the most. Less than that if it's already metastasized through one of his lymph nodes or another major organ.

In a way, by being compassionate to the guy, the Scots have kicked him in the crotch whilst he's on his death bed.

I am conflicted, because on the one hand I wouldn't wish a death like that on my worst enemy. But on the other hand... I like the way you think.

At 8/21/09 10:10 AM, morefngdbs wrote: IF the Nova Scotian man I'm talking about was found to be innocent, isn't it possible this man could be as well ?

Anything's possible, but ask yourself; if you did commit the crime, wouldn't you deny involvement all the way to the grave just to put the doubt into people's minds? Make them feel guilty? Just generally FUCK with them? It's not like you've got anything else to do, might as well.

"But these are the kind of things I think about when I'm sitting at home alone during an electrical storm waiting for the parole officer to give me a call. And these ideas, these ideas just come floating in, just floating right in... UNBIDDEN... I'm not asking for these things. I'm a vessel, a mere vessel... WHOOSH... in comes these thoughts. And some of them are off-beat, I'll grant you that." - George Carlin, RIP.

At 8/20/09 08:56 PM, Korriken wrote: He wanted to die on his native soil? we could have made everyone happy by taking him back to his home country, then putting a bullet in his head.

What's the point? He'll be dead within 3 months anyway.

That way, he could have exactly what he wanted, and he wouldn't be able to inspire a new generation of jihadists.

That's a really stupid thing to say. Killing someone in no way guarantees that they won't inspire anyone. I mean, did you seriously just say that? Haven't you ever heard of the concept of Martyrdom?

well none of that matters anymore he's dead, but i still belive if you take a life then your's should be taken as well

We welcome home our murderers and call them heros (The British army) so I don't know why people think this is insensitive to be perfectly honest. I admit I do not agree with him blowing up a plane with civilians in it, but I do not agree with our army bombing civilians either.

What I want to find out is the reason behind the Lockerbie bombing, the motive and intention, but I've no had time to look into it!

At 8/22/09 03:03 AM, iceman143751 wrote: well none of that matters anymore he's dead, but i still belive if you take a life then your's should be taken as well

Does that apply to Soldiers, Cops, Executioners, and people who kill in legal self-defense?

You've got to be particular, or alot of people are going to get killed. Ironic considering that little law of yours is made to prevent people from being killed.

I don't see why they couldn't have just put him in a prison infirmary and let him die there.

At 8/22/09 03:42 AM, Jon-86 wrote: What I want to find out is the reason behind the Lockerbie bombing, the motive and intention, but I've no had time to look into it!

There you go...

I'd see no reason not to retaliate, but Libya chose civilian targets. And for that, they can go fuck themselves.

Sure, its easier than going up against military targets, but really, if thats the mentality then why not just attack schools/orphanages/hospitals as well. (Western babies would put up even less of a fight. Plus it would be so much more traumatizing...)

At 8/22/09 09:27 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: this typical UK mentality people. there so left and politically correct why do you think its going to hell?
personally I belive the guy should have rotted in prison. but of course the UK is to worrried because they always give in to the muslims because they dont want another 7/7 bombing incident.

What kind of ignorant arse are you? If you actually took a second to google what peoples reactions were you would see people are against that as much as people in America! Further more the British government do not "give in to Muslims" what do you base that on? Do you honestly think 7/7/ was anything? in the 80s and 90s the IRA had a bombing campaign that also caused many deaths on the UK mainland as a direct result of the war in Ireland. This is nothing new for the UK or the people living here!

Also know that Islam as a religion is not our enemy and neither are the people who follow it! Its a religeon that preaches peace just like Christianity preaches forgivness and both religeons have fundamentialists who interprate their respective bibles their own way and use that to justify murder!

My own personnel opinion is I am glad the Scottish government (my government) stuck to its decision and didn't bend to the will of the American or British governments. We all give a heroes welcome to our respective army personal when they come home. I see the Lockerbie bombing as a war crime by Libya and both the UK and US have killed more during the 'war on terror' yet we still support it and call them heroes.

If your a part of an organisation whose primary goal is to kill your no hero, your a pawn. And thats not just the opinion of a civilian, that's the opinion of people I know who have served both in the British army for many years and so called terrorist organisations in Ireland. None of them are happy about what they have done and both of them know the governments they serve do not care what they have done. As long as they win.

At 8/22/09 12:55 PM, hansari wrote:

At 8/22/09 03:42 AM, Jon-86 wrote: What I want to find out is the reason behind the Lockerbie bombing, the motive and intention, but I've no had time to look into it!

There you go...

Cheers

At 8/22/09 03:48 PM, Jon-86 wrote: What kind of ignorant arse are you? If you actually took a second to google what peoples reactions were you would see people are against that as much as people in America!...

Those people need to run toward a television crew fast then. The way the American media is painting the situation, US victims = outrage, UK victims = forgive/forget.

At 8/22/09 03:48 PM, Jon-86 wrote: My own personnel opinion is I am glad the Scottish government (my government) stuck to its decision and didn't bend to the will of the American or British governments. We all give a heroes welcome to our respective army personal when they come home. I see the Lockerbie bombing as a war crime by Libya and both the UK and US have killed more during the 'war on terror' yet we still support it and call them heroes.

I agree, but the "war on terror" focuses on militant extremists. Innocent civilians have always been considered collateral damage.

Libya on the other hand deserves to be branded a terrorist state in this instance. The targets are not military, but deliberately civilian.

At 8/22/09 03:48 PM, Jon-86 wrote: If your a part of an organisation whose primary goal is to kill your no hero, your a pawn. And thats not just the opinion of a civilian, that's the opinion of people I know who have served both in the British army for many years and so called terrorist organisations in Ireland. None of them are happy about what they have done and both of them know the governments they serve do not care what they have done. As long as they win.

FFS. Your profile says your "male"? Damn it all.... (I was drawing hearts on my monitor and everything...)

At 8/22/09 10:08 PM, hansari wrote:

At 8/22/09 03:48 PM, Jon-86 wrote: My own personnel opinion is I am glad the Scottish government (my government) stuck to its decision and didn't bend to the will of the American or British governments. We all give a heroes welcome to our respective army personal when they come home. I see the Lockerbie bombing as a war crime by Libya and both the UK and US have killed more during the 'war on terror' yet we still support it and call them heroes.

I agree, but the "war on terror" focuses on militant extremists. Innocent civilians have always been considered collateral damage.

Libya on the other hand deserves to be branded a terrorist state in this instance. The targets are not military, but deliberately civilian.

Thats an entire debate on its own, you could argue the US targeted Japanese civilians when it dropped the atomic bomb. But if the reasons behind the Pan AM flight being bombed are along the right lines, then this is a revenge attack. Nothing to do with terrorism, no objective can be achieved from it, its revenge pure and simple!

FFS. Your profile says your "male"? Damn it all.... (I was drawing hearts on my monitor and everything...)

That was an unexpected reaction lol, if only you were a lassie...

Whether he has cancer or not is completely irrelevant. He deserves to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison. Instead they've let him go home to a hero's welcome.