Be a Supporter!

Astronomy.

  • 1,358 Views
  • 42 Replies
New Topic Respond to this Topic
EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Astronomy. 2004-02-05 19:59:12 Reply

I'm sure some of you are interested in Astronomy and I don't mean the mathematical aspect, but the observing and philisophical aspect of it.

What do you think about the thought of different dimensions and how they have collided to form the physics we all know and love today? That is why we have directions (the 3 dimensions, 3D) and time. If you set two parallel lines in the universe they will eventually run into each other through hyperspace, which isn't of the 3D dimension! BWAAAAAH!

And what do you guys think of the concpet of our universe only being a tiny blip in the way that our universes work on our dimension. Because when you think about it, you can break time down into so many sections, like the time it takes for a neutrino to appear and then disappear or into a mellinium. Humans have only been evolving for a couple of thousands of years, but our solar system has been around for a shit load longer than that. In a couple of thousand of years we'll be so fucking evolved that we will have to eventually leave Earth for another planet. Kind of sounds like Scientology haha!

crazyguy832
crazyguy832
  • Member since: Nov. 23, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 06
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-05 22:32:19 Reply

Wow. Never seen a post like that before. U sure ure on the right board for this kind of post though? Personally, I believe that there is multiple demensions and that there are an infinite amount of variations happening in parrallel universes all around us.

A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
  • Member since: Dec. 11, 2002
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-05 22:33:49 Reply

You should read Flatland, It's by something A. Abbot. It is almost required reading for understanding hypergeometry.

NEMESiSZ
NEMESiSZ
  • Member since: Apr. 13, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 45
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-05 22:35:13 Reply

At 2/5/04 10:33 PM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote: You should read Flatland, It's by something A. Abbot. It is almost required reading for understanding hypergeometry.

We had to read flatland in geometry class in my high school, it's not bad, and it's a quick read.

EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-05 22:43:21 Reply

I don't know. I don't really think it's all that smart of a topic or anything.

I've just been getting more aware of how to live my life and I'm picking up a lot of things about humanity, that everyone else seems not to see somehow and people think I'm some smart guy. I'm just evolving and growing up. It sucks though because nobody goes to my school or anything that acknowledges as much as I do about life, so I pretty much have to dumb myself down to talk to people.

I'm starting to get the understanding of the importance of knowing the history of our universe. The universe is the origin of fucking existance for Jesus/Ala/God whoevers sake! Why not know how existance evolved and form what we are today. We are the origin of the universe! I guess I'm just evolving to the plane of being an alien. Haha! Or maybe I'm just growing up.

A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
  • Member since: Dec. 11, 2002
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-05 22:47:06 Reply

I think that it has been established before that the Politics Forum covers far more than Politics, including Philosophy, Ethics and Culture. Science is linked to Metaphysics, which is a subclass of Philosophy, so this topic is in the right place.

EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-05 22:52:04 Reply

At 2/5/04 10:47 PM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote: I think that it has been established before that the Politics Forum covers far more than Politics, including Philosophy, Ethics and Culture. Science is linked to Metaphysics, which is a subclass of Philosophy, so this topic is in the right place.

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that it wasn't as smart as I have seen people be before. I'm lucky to have an extremely brilliant man as an astronomy teacher. It's weird because I'm 16 and I understand more than pretty much every other teen I encounter, I have to be around more grown up smart people. Haha! But there are some cool kids around my school.

yuromechei
yuromechei
  • Member since: Feb. 18, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 02
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 00:22:35 Reply

how can we guess at something we've never seen before? For all we know, outside of our visible range is a big poodle, which is really the universe. haha. or maybe our entire existance is based of one asshats dream.lol. i dont like talking about this kind of stuff, but its all pretty lame sounding. Personally, i want to grow up, and die. screw the universe.

lol. just playin. Can anyone explain the idea of the time space continum?

BWS
BWS
  • Member since: Jun. 5, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 24
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 00:28:20 Reply

It is interesting to learn about the Universe. If you take higher level astrophysics classes you learn that the Universe actually has a critical density (Im pretty sure this was the term used). You see gravitational forces act on mass. The Universe has a mass, and it has an aggregate density as well. When a star goes into nova(?), you have it expanding because the outward pressure from the explosion is greater than the gravity. This fluctuates and so it expands and fission(maybe fussion, im not a major in this) takes place. Now the matter is denser and the gravity increases thus it contracts again. This happens over and over until it finally explodes. The Universe is like this. Scientists have tried to estimate the critical density of the Universe so that we can determine something very important: will it continue to expand for ever in at "constant" rate, will it exponentially expand and eventually "hyperexpand" upon itself, or will it simply hit its maximum and recollapse? This is quite interesting as it leads us to understand the geometry of space. I think that Hubbles Law is somewhat used to calculate this rate, and of course vector calculus is used as well. The strange thing is that the geometry is much different; I think its non-euclidean geometry. Anywho, im probably making people get headaches now, so ill stop, but this is in fact some interesting shit.

BWS
BWS
  • Member since: Jun. 5, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 24
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 00:35:49 Reply

At 2/6/04 12:22 AM, yuromechei wrote: lol. just playin. Can anyone explain the idea of the time space continum?

Without understanding crazytalk math language and physics, probably not. Its like this, kind of:
You have an equation that relates to space and its rate of change. Now the variable "time" is part of the equation. As the equation changes, the time flows as well. Now, it is supposed to be continous and so they flow together at a constant rate of change.

Disclaimer: yes, this is a very crude example, but hey, whatcha exspect hommie! Also, string theory/quantum physics/crazy-talk complicates the shit out of this because of many many reasons.

bumcheekcity
bumcheekcity
  • Member since: Jan. 19, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 27
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 12:27:59 Reply

At 2/5/04 07:59 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: If you set two parallel lines in the universe they will eventually run into each other through hyperspace, which isn't of the 3D dimension! BWAAAAAH!

By defenition then, they aren't parallel.

A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
  • Member since: Dec. 11, 2002
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 13:39:43 Reply

At 2/6/04 12:27 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: By defenition then, they aren't parallel.

I guess you are right, but I think he means that lines that look parallel are actually planes that intersect in a different dimension .

Once you leave the safe world of Euclidean geometry things that you thought were definitions were just special cases of a broader category.

In eliptical geometry, basically geometry where instead of a flat plane you are on a sphere, there are no parallel lines, and in hyperbolic it's even weirder.

EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 16:48:39 Reply

At 2/6/04 12:27 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:
At 2/5/04 07:59 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: If you set two parallel lines in the universe they will eventually run into each other through hyperspace, which isn't of the 3D dimension! BWAAAAAH!
By defenition then, they aren't parallel.

Yeah, I'm saying that that isn't part of our three dimensions. A good example of that is if you set two lines on the Terra and let them go then they will eventually run into each other because of the curvature of the Terra.

A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
  • Member since: Dec. 11, 2002
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 16:59:10 Reply

The Parallel postulate that applies to eliptical geometry states that there is no line that fulfills the following conditions.
1. It passes through a given point
2. The shortest distance from one line to the other at any point is always the same.

Basically parallel lines are not possible on a sphere.

EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 17:00:45 Reply

At 2/6/04 12:28 AM, BWS wrote: It is interesting to learn about the Universe. If you take higher level astrophysics classes you learn that the Universe actually has a critical density (Im pretty sure this was the term used). You see gravitational forces act on mass. The Universe has a mass, and it has an aggregate density as well. When a star goes into nova(?), you have it expanding because the outward pressure from the explosion is greater than the gravity. This fluctuates and so it expands and fission(maybe fussion, im not a major in this) takes place. Now the matter is denser and the gravity increases thus it contracts again. This happens over and over until it finally explodes. The Universe is like this. Scientists have tried to estimate the critical density of the Universe so that we can determine something very important: will it continue to expand for ever in at "constant" rate, will it exponentially expand and eventually "hyperexpand" upon itself, or will it simply hit its maximum and recollapse? This is quite interesting as it leads us to understand the geometry of space. I think that Hubbles Law is somewhat used to calculate this rate, and of course vector calculus is used as well. The strange thing is that the geometry is much different; I think its non-euclidean geometry. Anywho, im probably making people get headaches now, so ill stop, but this is in fact some interesting shit.

Yay! It's BWS my knowledge hero!

A star will throw all of its matter outward when it is about to die in an attempt to save itself from pressure and heat, but it will eventually just go nova on its ass.

It wouldn't make sense for "our" universe to keep expanding into hyperspace for eternity, because you can connect that to the spiritual aspect that nothing lasts forever. The way I think about it is that you can connect things through the mind, spirit and body. So a great inner lesson will also teach you about physics. It sucks that I have such a shitty math teacher or else I would get more into it, which would help out my astronomy.

I think we should look at our universe on a much larger scale, in the sense that our universe is only a tiny blip in time compared to the whole picture, it's just we percieve normal time at a steady pace, kind of like Terra being the right distance away for all three forms of water to exist on "our" planet.

I also like to look at our solar systen as just a normal particle of energy floating about, until it meets another atom and fuses with that. And that our different dimensions collide when everything is connected. It's like in Animal House when they smoke weed and the professor projects the idea that the atoms in our body are merely universes, but we percieve them as atoms.

When you think about it we are only made of electricity and chemicals, so it is possible that there is other life on every other planet, even the sun, but our understanding of life is only how we are and not how the chemicals are placed on the other planets. We just can't percieve the electricity and chemical reaction on other planets.

But this is all just me talking, only a man.

A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
  • Member since: Dec. 11, 2002
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 17:03:30 Reply

Sorry, I think I prased that really poorly, here's a link that explains the whole thing.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ParallelPostulate.html

For plane geometry:
Given any straight line and a point not on it, there "exists one and only one straight line which passes" through that point and never intersects the first line, no matter how far they are extended
For eliptical geometry:
Given any straight line and a point not on it, there "exists no line which passes" through that point and never intersects the first line, no matter how far they are extended
For hyperbolic geometry:
Given any straight line and a point not on it, there "exist at least two lines which pass" through that point and never intersects the first line, no matter how far they are extended

Hope this makes more sense.

EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 20:03:27 Reply

At 2/6/04 05:03 PM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote: Hope this makes more sense.

Dude, simple math that was made for Earth is a lot different than astrophysics.

A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot
  • Member since: Dec. 11, 2002
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 12
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-06 20:55:54 Reply

At 2/6/04 08:03 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote:
At 2/6/04 05:03 PM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote: Hope this makes more sense.
Dude, simple math that was made for Earth is a lot different than astrophysics.

How so, astrophysics uses the same math, the only difference is all stable orbits have chaotic periods (I know that makes no sense, but if the orbit has a stable period, harmonic motion will knock it out of orbit)
Anyway non euclidean geometry is neccessary because in certain conditions the universe does not have zero curvature.

bumcheekcity
bumcheekcity
  • Member since: Jan. 19, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 27
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-07 03:55:58 Reply

At 2/5/04 07:59 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: I'm sure some of you are interested in Astronomy and I don't mean the mathematical aspect, but the observing and philisophical aspect of it.

Why did we get into the areas of hyperphysics then?

EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-07 10:54:19 Reply

Why did we get into the areas of hyperphysics then?

Because some other turd started talking about math.

RedSkunk
RedSkunk
  • Member since: Sep. 13, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 32
Writer
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-07 21:59:54 Reply

I'm a Gemini...


The one thing force produces is resistance.

BBS Signature
EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 00:16:44 Reply

At 2/7/04 09:59 PM, red_skunk wrote: I'm a Gemini...

Congratulations, that's astrology you moron.

RedSkunk
RedSkunk
  • Member since: Sep. 13, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 32
Writer
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 00:59:00 Reply

At 2/8/04 12:16 AM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: Congratulations, that's astrology you moron.

Congratulations, you posted a topic about astronomy on a politics forum. Makes perfect fucking sense.


The one thing force produces is resistance.

BBS Signature
BWS
BWS
  • Member since: Jun. 5, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 24
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 03:28:27 Reply

At 2/8/04 12:59 AM, red_skunk wrote: Congratulations, you posted a topic about astronomy on a politics forum. Makes perfect fucking sense.

Yes, it actually does. This forum is more-or-less a forum that deals with intelligent issues (or attempts to) and so he has every right to post this here. Dont bash him simply because his thread isnt a political one. I, along with others, find this to be rather interesting. Would you rather have another Bush thread (if you say yes, you lose)?

RedSkunk
RedSkunk
  • Member since: Sep. 13, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 32
Writer
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 03:31:58 Reply

Oh, I dunno, just in the mood for romance I guess, and skunks get very territorial and aggressive...


The one thing force produces is resistance.

BBS Signature
BWS
BWS
  • Member since: Jun. 5, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 24
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 03:59:29 Reply

At 2/8/04 03:31 AM, red_skunk wrote: Oh, I dunno, just in the mood for romance I guess, and skunks get very territorial and aggressive...

I have to solution!!!
Solution
Go into General.
Explain, in depth, that you in fact do have a magical penis.
Justify reasons for others to kill themselfs.
Insist that your logic is air tight and that they automatically lose.
Stand behind reasoning no matter what.
Have a blast.

I love my ideas!

RedSkunk
RedSkunk
  • Member since: Sep. 13, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 32
Writer
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 04:47:51 Reply

lol, I know, I'm beginning to see the light in flaming general =P


The one thing force produces is resistance.

BBS Signature
JudgeDredd
JudgeDredd
  • Member since: Aug. 18, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 37
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 10:27:31 Reply

At 2/5/04 07:59 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: "and I don't mean the mathematical aspect, but the observing and philisophical aspect of it."

To make progress in metaphysics you have to pose the most important of questions to find the best methodology that would in turn offer a fast-track to the heart of the greatest mysteries that the Universe itself has chanced to pose us ..and without which, the mere existance of such far-off phenomenon would remain otherwise totally inconsequential..

Ponder this as a basic example;

"would it be better use of one's time to design a time-machine or a near light-speed spacecraft? which & why?"

bumcheekcity
bumcheekcity
  • Member since: Jan. 19, 2003
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 27
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 10:47:44 Reply

At 2/8/04 10:27 AM, Judge_Dredd wrote: "would it be better use of one's time to design a time-machine or a near light-speed spacecraft? which & why?"

Near-Light Aircraft, because a time-machine is impossible to build. *Phew* something I understand!

EefOofClock
EefOofClock
  • Member since: Nov. 5, 2001
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 23
Blank Slate
Response to Astronomy. 2004-02-08 12:13:07 Reply

Yes, it actually does. This forum is more-or-less a forum that deals with intelligent issues (or attempts to) and so he has every right to post this here. Dont bash him simply because his thread isnt a political one. I, along with others, find this to be rather interesting. Would you rather have another Bush thread (if you say yes, you lose)?

OH SHIZZZZZZZNAT! YOU JUST GOT TOLD BY BWS!

What do you's guys think the Keiper Belt originated from? I would have to guess it was an early planettesimal if anything, one that collided with another one to make a bunch of cosmic debree and it just got caught in the orbital resonance or Jupiter and the Sun.

Does anyone else also find a strange attraction to Nebula? I've always thought that they were the most beautiful things ever. Nebula and galexies. Nebuli are the starting point for creation pretty much, forming stars and solar systems. Then galexies are the most evolved form of a system. It's like you look at the smallest form of a community, an atom, with protons, electrons and neutrons, then you keep going up until you get to a galaxy.