Music?

[EefOofClock]

I talk of this in the political forum because I think it has a little more to do with politics rather than just the general forum. It's not really political, just more psychologicaly challenging than some of the stuff that is in the general forum.

Do you think that music and the trends they set put kids into a mindset, which allows them to make more evolved thoughts than the people before them, making the society more intellectual, therefore allowing them to form a better government and society? I've often found myself wondering what the government and society will be like in a couple of centuries. Maybe I'm going too deep into the thought of time, but it's interesting.

I guess its just the cycle of evolutionary learning ability growing up and making music that conveys the subliminal message of life through pitch, tone and harmony. I'de like to hear your take on the whole thing.

[EefOofClock]

At 2/4/04 06:58 PM, MichaelBillings wrote: I like music. But modern music is sometimes a problem. Limp Biskit just sucks, and it hurts our ears. If you listen to Beastie Boys it will lower your IQ. Rage Against the Machine will turn you into an anarchist, and Linkin Park, SOAD, and Korn will all make you kill yourself.

But I still like music.

Jesus man! Have you not listened to Beasty Boys in depth?! They are really smart when it comes to music. If anything, the Beastie Boys will make you smarter.

At 2/4/04 06:58 PM, MichaelBillings wrote: Rage Against the Machine will turn you into an anarchist, and Linkin Park, SOAD, and Korn will all make you kill yourself.

Did you ever stop to think that it's "anarchists" who listen to Rage Against The Machine and not Rage Against The machine that turns its listeners into anarchists?

[EefOofClock]

At 2/4/04 07:01 PM, punk_hippy wrote:

At 2/4/04 06:58 PM, MichaelBillings wrote: Rage Against the Machine will turn you into an anarchist, and Linkin Park, SOAD, and Korn will all make you kill yourself.

Did you ever stop to think that it's "anarchists" who listen to Rage Against The Machine and not Rage Against The machine that turns its listeners into anarchists?

This is true, but a lot of them are posers. It's the truely anarchist spirit that is happy with that lifestyle and the people who are posers are the ones who become unhappy with it.

But it's not really the case that Rage turns them into anarchist, but more that they make the realize the usefullness of that kind of mentality, but it all has to do with your spirit.

[mrpopenfresh]

At 2/4/04 07:01 PM, punk_hippy wrote:
Did you ever stop to think that it's "anarchists" who listen to Rage Against The Machine and not Rage Against The machine that turns its listeners into anarchists?

Good point. Music will not turn a redneck into a sophisticated man. Music can only encourage traits someone already posesse's. To use what PH wrote, someone who will show interest in anarchy will listen to what a real anarchist would. It won't transform you into something your'e not.

[EefOofClock]

Hm. Did you ever stop to think that a square is both a rectangle and a rhombus, but neither rectangles nor rhombi are always squares?

I say bah humbug, and good day to you sir.

Dude, shut the hell up.

Does anyone have a serious opinion on the subject matter?

Some go in depth with my question! Haha! Just make it smart.

[Proteas]

At 2/4/04 07:11 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: Does anyone have a serious opinion on the subject matter?

Some go in depth with my question! Haha! Just make it smart.

O.k. How about this? Music effects not only people but culture they live in. It can effect your way of thinking, depending on just what you listen to. Music has the power to elevate and bring down a person's spirit, as well as inspire.

I just wonder what these people who run around as "punks" and "thugs" are gonna do when they hit 70, if they live that long. How do explain a "gang banger" or a "punk rocker" to your grandkids?

[EefOofClock]

At 2/4/04 07:46 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 2/4/04 07:11 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: Does anyone have a serious opinion on the subject matter?

Some go in depth with my question! Haha! Just make it smart.

O.k. How about this? Music effects not only people but culture they live in. It can effect your way of thinking, depending on just what you listen to. Music has the power to elevate and bring down a person's spirit, as well as inspire.
Yes, pretty much reinforcing what I stated about my belief of it.
I just wonder what these people who run around as "punks" and "thugs" are gonna do when they hit 70, if they live that long. How do explain a "gang banger" or a "punk rocker" to your grandkids?

It's all just a fad, which doesn't last the test of time. The only thing that lasts the test of time is pure intelligence. People like Edgar Allen Poe, Shakespear, or The Beatles were able to display a new side of life, which is why they are so well recognized.

At 2/4/04 07:46 PM, Proteas wrote: I just wonder what these people who run around as "punks" and "thugs" are gonna do when they hit 70

Punk isn't a fashion, it's a state of mind. At least that's what it was meant to be.

Oh and to answer your question; Noam Chomsky.

[EefOofClock]

I guess its just the cycle of evolutionary learning ability growing up and making music that conveys the subliminal message of life through pitch, tone and harmony. I'de like to hear your take on the whole thing.

For example. I've been listening to Incubus a lot lately and I have realized that they are just an evolved form of punk and rock. The punk is incorperated into the rock to add a heavier setting, but it's not punk. Plus their DJ really sets the atmosphere for the guitar to play off of. This is all just a show of intelligence when making music, which we can look at and advance in our train of thought. Then I put in this Pearl Jam CD that I havn't listened to in a while (it was one of their later more intellectual albums, binaural) and I realized that they had lived for many more years than Incubus and have formed deeper meaning to their experiences, which is just a more evolved emotional connection that what younger people do. So it's not really what affect they have on people, but the sub-concious teaching it has with their messages.

[Proteas]

At 2/4/04 08:06 PM, punk_hippy wrote: Oh and to answer your question; Noam Chomsky.

Who the hell is Noam Chomsky, and how does it relate to this debate?

[Synesthesia]

Noam Chomsky has interesting views on linquistics and the effects of having most of the networks owned by corporations. Such as how it effects the news...
An interesting question is, How does American music, pop music, effect OTHER cultures. Like countries where people's traditional music has been drowned out by the musical equivalent of mcDonald's hamburgers.
Music for young people can be an outlet for rage, the way aggressive rock and rock (like aggressive Dir en grey) can sooth a person.
Or at least that's how it is with me.

[Thanatopsis]

ok to answer the question i think it depends on the type of music that you listion to listioning to top 40 or aka pop includes some rap some metal and some punk then you dont realy get anything out of it. Because it is meant for the masses but if you listion to stuff out side of the medias eye and quality music then you are more likely to find music with good content that will affect you and move you.

At 2/4/04 08:18 PM, Proteas wrote: Who the hell is Noam Chomsky, and how does it relate to this debate?

You asked what happened to punks that are 70 years old and Noam Chomsky is a fine example of that.

[Proteas]

At 2/4/04 08:25 PM, Synesthesia wrote: Noam Chomsky has interesting views on linquistics and the effects of having most of the networks owned by corporations. Such as how it effects the news...

O.k.... but I still don't see how just mentioning his name answers my question.

An interesting question is, How does American music, pop music, effect OTHER cultures. Like countries where people's traditional music has been drowned out by the musical equivalent of mcDonald's hamburgers.

In France, radio stations have to play at least 40% french music during the day, so some of popular American music doesn't make it to their ears.
In Arab countries, American music (and lifestyle) is usually looked down upon by purists and clerics, and it is considered a crime to even listen or partake in either.
In Afghanistan, after the Taliban was run out, a lot of people celebrated by bring out radio's and tv's and watching (what else?) citcoms. I'm not sure what they listened to.
Seen on Oprah: On a wall in an african village is scribbled the names "Tupac and Biggie." So it makes you wonder what their view of the U.S. is if that's all they know about us.

Music for young people can be an outlet for rage, the way aggressive rock and rock (like aggressive Dir en grey) can sooth a person.
Or at least that's how it is with me.

I've always found classical music to be quite soothing. But it always seemed to me that some forms of rock build up rage in a person over nothing. I don't think it's especially healthy to be mad about nothing.
(I know, I sound like a hypocrite for saying that considering what bands I like)

At 2/4/04 08:32 PM, punk_hippy wrote:

You asked what happened to punks that are 70 years old and Noam Chomsky is a fine example of that.

Example of what? All your implying is that Noam Chomsky is a 70 year old former punk rocker.

[Reverend-Kyle]

I've been a fan of punk since I was 11 or 12 (I guess that's the pattern), and I'm still a fan (I'm 18 now), but I know I'll probably "grow" out of it. Some of it is, to an extent, timeless. Some punk bands actually have something to say (Propagandhi, NOFX), but others are just 'blips' on the radar, if you will (Blink 182 [who I was a big fan of at one point]).

Propagandhi actually got me thinking more. 'Political' bands must help bring out the activist; my views have been shaped, at least.

The music I hear on the radio and see on the music stations just makes me angry. It's so... empty.

I totally agree with what Kyle said, back in the 1960s you couldn't listen to the radio without hearing a song with politicaly aware lyrics.

However, punk has mostly been reduced to nothing less than a product and a social clique.

I could go on and on but I'll just link you to this article written by Bad Religion's singer.

[Synesthesia]

I think a lot of these modern rock bands are just...so... unnessasarily angry and angsty.
The lyrics are uninteresting in songs by Korn and Slipnot and bands like that. It's all, everything's falling away, my life sucks, I'm laying in a hole covered in dirt screaming.
Bleck.
Ooo. Greg Graffin makes some great points in this article. I dislike dogmatic types screaming on people when they step out of line for just a second.

[EefOofClock]

At 2/4/04 09:19 PM, Synesthesia wrote: I think a lot of these modern rock bands are just...so... unnessasarily angry and angsty.
The lyrics are uninteresting in songs by Korn and Slipnot and bands like that. It's all, everything's falling away, my life sucks, I'm laying in a hole covered in dirt screaming.
Bleck.
Ooo. Greg Graffin makes some great points in this article. I dislike dogmatic types screaming on people when they step out of line for just a second.

Yes, I've been aware for a while that bands like that are unnecassarily angry and mad, but they will just die out with time, so don't give your attention away to something so stupid and focus more on the music that betters you as a person.

[MuiKat]

well, history has shown the world in general r becoming more intellectual, creative, and placing higher value on freedom. so i don't think it's the music that's doing it, it's just the way we evolved (natural selection in a sense?).

[mrpopenfresh]

Yeah, punk is really going down the shitter. Good Charlotte and Simple Plan are copntributing greatly to the downfall. How they manage to call themselves "punk" and be able to sleep at night is beyond me. And don't even get me started with Blink 182. Their new cd made me think I was listening to some new age soft rock or something laong the lines of that. The way I think of it, Blink is preparing the younger generation of punk music enthusiast to a long adulthood of lame and emetionless music.

[EefOofClock]

At 2/4/04 09:23 PM, MuiKat wrote: well, history has shown the world in general r becoming more intellectual, creative, and placing higher value on freedom. so i don't think it's the music that's doing it, it's just the way we evolved (natural selection in a sense?).

Good point, the music we listen to is only a display of the evolutional progress we've made so far. The good musicians are the teachers of our age.

I want to be in a band so bad, so I can express myself in a more accepted way! DAMN MY WEAK VOICE!

[MuiKat]

At 2/4/04 10:29 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote: I want to be in a band so bad, so I can express myself in a more accepted way! DAMN MY WEAK VOICE!

hmm..... learn how to play an instrument?

[Synesthesia]

At 2/4/04 10:29 PM, EefOofTheBeefBoof wrote:

At 2/4/04 09:23 PM, MuiKat wrote: well, history has shown the world in general r becoming more intellectual, creative, and placing higher value on freedom. so i don't think it's the music that's doing it, it's just the way we evolved (natural selection in a sense?).

Good point, the music we listen to is only a display of the evolutional progress we've made so far. The good musicians are the teachers of our age.

I want to be in a band so bad, so I can express myself in a more accepted way! DAMN MY WEAK VOICE!

Dude, having a weak voice sure doesn't stop some of these other people.
Just wail and sing with a lot of feeling.
Unless you're tone deaf.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

Being tone deaf didn't stop Wesley Willis.

[bumcheekcity]

At 2/4/04 06:58 PM, MichaelBillings wrote: I like music. But modern music is sometimes a problem. Limp Biskit just sucks, and it hurts our ears. If you listen to Beastie Boys it will lower your IQ. Rage Against the Machine will turn you into an anarchist, and Linkin Park, SOAD, and Korn will all make you kill yourself.

Well I've managed to sit through System of a Down without the feeling that I want to plunge a knife into nmy chest, but I couldn't do that with any rap artist.

[Proteas]

At 2/5/04 02:42 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 2/4/04 06:58 PM, MichaelBillings wrote: I like music. But modern music is sometimes a problem. Limp Biskit just sucks, and it hurts our ears. If you listen to Beastie Boys it will lower your IQ. Rage Against the Machine will turn you into an anarchist, and Linkin Park, SOAD, and Korn will all make you kill yourself.

Well I've managed to sit through System of a Down without the feeling that I want to plunge a knife into nmy chest, but I couldn't do that with any rap artist.

I think it's odd that SOAD is so politically minded in their music, yet no one bothers to pay much attention (other than their fans) because the music they play isn't considered "punk".

What aggravates me to no end are bands that can't seem to play a single song without using a swear in every other verse. I get the idea from the individual song that it is meant to show the singer as being depressed or just pissed off, but using the F word every 5 seconds is just uneccesary.
That is why I like Linkin Park. They get the idea across without once using a swear (except for one instance during H! Vltg3 on the Reanimation album).

[lapslf]

At 2/5/04 08:55 AM, Proteas wrote: That is why I like Linkin Park. They get the idea across without once using a swear (except for one instance during H! Vltg3 on the Reanimation album).

Right. Now all they need is an actual idea and perhaps some variation in their music.

And to answer EefOofTheBeefBoof 's (what a name) question: I don't think the message of a song has much influence on the masses. Most people don't give a hoot about what the musicians sing about. Unfortunately, a big part of this generation listens to pop music, and there isn't really much emphasis on the message in that kind of music. It's eater about negro's hitting naked chicks on their asses, or filthy rich bands playing mainstream rock pretending to be cool and punk (kill Good Charlotte!!! Just fucking kill those motherfuckers!!).

For those who do listen to music with some depth, well they probably already know and love the message in those songs, so they won't really change because of it. I mean, when a punkrocker listens to a punkrock song about how bad a conservative government he won't start thinking, because (in most cases, I have yet to meet a conservative punkrocker) he agreed with the song before he even heard it.

So in conclusion: nope, I don't think music will have much of an effect on people's way of thinking. It's mostly the other way around: people think in a kind of way and the music adapts to it.

[mentalis]

Music can exercise the brain or turn it too mush. It can make you do anything if you let it.

Music is simply an expression of what a person is feeling and/or thinking.

It is up to the listener to interpret what the music is saying.

[EefOofClock]

Right. Now all they need is an actual idea and perhaps some variation in their music.

And to answer EefOofTheBeefBoof 's (what a name) question: I don't think the message of a song has much influence on the masses. Most people don't give a hoot about what the musicians sing about. Unfortunately, a big part of this generation listens to pop music, and there isn't really much emphasis on the message in that kind of music. It's eater about negro's hitting naked chicks on their asses, or filthy rich bands playing mainstream rock pretending to be cool and punk (kill Good Charlotte!!! Just fucking kill those motherfuckers!!).

For those who do listen to music with some depth, well they probably already know and love the message in those songs, so they won't really change because of it. I mean, when a punkrocker listens to a punkrock song about how bad a conservative government he won't start thinking, because (in most cases, I have yet to meet a conservative punkrocker) he agreed with the song before he even heard it.

So in conclusion: nope, I don't think music will have much of an effect on people's way of thinking. It's mostly the other way around: people think in a kind of way and the music adapts to it.

Haha! Linkin Park sucks. And so does Good Charlotte, but they will both die out eventually, since the don't have anything to say.
I guess you're right. The people that are more into music are smart enough to not let the music shape them, but to allow themselves to shape the music for themselves like Mentalis said.

I tend to go deeper into things than I should and sometimes it can get a little out of hand, so keep me in line! Haha! Oh, and Veggiemeal, thanks for being smart about it, haha!