Top Music Schools?

[Mrmilkcarton]

I have one year left of highschool and I need to work on my college apps. I've got my mind set on scoring/composition since I'm not much of a performer. Google hasn't been my friend lately when I type in "Top Music Colleges". I need to start picking schools soon and right now I have no limits.

A little background info: As I stated earlier I'm going to be more of a composer then a performer so I'm not looking for a school known for it's performance. I would REALLY like the school to be open minded to genres. None of that "Classical and Jazz ONLY" crap where they are still stuck in the past. The price right now doesn't matter, location too. I'm really looking for the best school that people will know "Oh he went to ______ college he's our man". Of course SAT/ACT might be a factor but I still have time (I scored a little above average on both but they need to improve).

The schools I've looked into:
Jullairds - The end all be all of music schools it seems. I've only heard stories of performance and some composition but it seems like they are very closed minded. Maybe I overlooked something but they seem like a very strict classical school which I'm not big on.

Berklee (in Boston) - This school seemed really dumb at first when they sent me a flier for a summer program about how "We'll teach you to use garageband to make great songs". So I put them down at first as just another school trying to take my money. I recently looked into this school and it has risen on my choices of colleges. It has good programs and embraces all genres keeping an open mind to the current market.

UC Berkley - I live in California so why not? I visited their campus and the people at the music department were very nice. They left me with papers and told me "All you have to do is get accepted to Berkley and your in". Easier said then done of course... Berkley is a tough school to get into and I really liked the campus. Most my friends don't even consider applying there and they are by far smarter then me in all aspects.

Those are the schools I visited, though I have visited others like Pennstate, Temple, Chico, so on and so forth. I never looked into the music part of those schools as much as the others.

So Newgrounders and your almighty knowledge, what other schools should I take into consideration?

[Envy]

Berklee is really good. It's said that if you graduate from Berklee you're a failed musician, because most people get record deals then drop out or something.

[btriangle]

Hmm the schools you listed are pretty much the best. I would suggest UCLA, since thats a kick ass school in LA, and local.

But you can also go to UC Berkley, thats great too.

[nathanallenpinard]

USC is the only school I would pick, with a decent film scoring program and film composers as teachers.

However, in essence, there is no school out there that will guarantee you a job. Composition is not easily taught, and school IS NOT required in the composition business. No talent agent, director, artist, etc will look at your resume and see that you went to college and get hired. It will be a very small plus.

They will teach you engineering (but not much of it), scoring (technical aspect of writing for orchestra), keyboard harmony, theory, orchestration (which will help you)

But overall they won't really tell you much about actual composition, because there aren't easy ways to "teach" it.

Also, you'll have one of the best college orchestras play your stuff. That's always a good feeling.

[krssvr]

CRAS (conservatory for recording arts and sciences) In Arizona i heard was pretty good

[sarias]

i was in your shoes a year ago and from my travels go to your local state school or a smaller school that still has a good program Im from arizona so i chose ASU heres why USC hates their undergraduates even though thats where i wanted to go like someone recently said they don't care where you studied go to a school that has a good program but doesn't necessarily cost as much Arizona state is costing half as much as USC would have they way i see it go to graduate school get a master in music composition from whatever school you want. maby asu is a good bet they have a great program for just a state school then take that degree and apply to USC or Berkley plus if you get into USC you get to study with RIchard Kraft danny elfman and alan menken's agent he teaches a class over there

[nathanallenpinard]

USC is usually the best choice, not necessarily due to it's education, but it's connections. It's SMACK DAB in the middle of Hollywood, the staff are working film composers, and if you happen to be good at what you do, you'd probably get a lot of good references in studios, composer assistants, hell...maybe even Remote Control.

If you want to make a living composing, it's either movies, TV, albums, or games. All of those jobs require connections.

The only thing is which school is sometimes required for a music job, is teaching.

[ZStriefel]

At 7/31/09 05:58 PM, krssvr wrote: CRAS (conservatory for recording arts and sciences) In Arizona i heard was pretty good

its a damn dirty lie...

[nathanallenpinard]

Recording schools can be a waste of money. The best way to get recording experience is to intern with a studio.

[ZStriefel]

At 7/31/09 07:07 PM, nathanallenpinard wrote: Recording schools can be a waste of money. The best way to get recording experience is to intern with a studio.

I agree 100%

[KgZ]

If you have good enough grades, go into NYU's Clyde Davis School of recorded music program, only 20 or so people are accepted. And you're right in the city, the best place for any media outlet.

[nathanallenpinard]

Depends on the media you're going for. NYC is popular with a variety of performances, but not much in the terms of music media jobs where you create music...unless it's a musical.

[ZStriefel]

LA is the place to be for sure

[nathanallenpinard]

Either that or somewhere foreign (mainly for game development)

I almost had the chance to work in the UK with a huge budget. Man..that would've been sweet. Would've had Tricia Helfer in my studio! :P

[Mrmilkcarton]

Sadly everytime USC is mentioned in my house my mom gives me the eye of "We don't have 50,000 dollars". It's still possible for me to go but sadly the money might keep me from applying.

[krssvr]

At 7/31/09 06:53 PM, ZStriefel wrote:

At 7/31/09 05:58 PM, krssvr wrote: CRAS (conservatory for recording arts and sciences) In Arizona i heard was pretty good

its a damn dirty lie...

why's that?

[Mrmilkcarton]

Also while I'm thinking about it, I always see "Composition" and "Scoring for _____" as separate majors. I figured composing for cinema and tv would be the same as scoring? Whats the difference in these two, when I checked it just seemed like composition was more of the study of theory and the rules of it over actually composing music.

[ZStriefel]

At 7/31/09 08:08 PM, krssvr wrote:

At 7/31/09 06:53 PM, ZStriefel wrote:

At 7/31/09 05:58 PM, krssvr wrote: CRAS (conservatory for recording arts and sciences) In Arizona i heard was pretty good

its a damn dirty lie...

why's that?

well I attended and graduated from there a few months ago. Don't get me wrong its an amazing school. But I think should have stayed in CA and just started interning off the bat. But then again it kinda depends on you. Do you know the basics of operating a DAW? understand basic mic placement and all that jazz then you would be fine going straight into interning cause you're probably gonna be scrubbing toilets your first couple weeks anyways. And some people don't know anything but they want to learn. it might be a good idea for em to go to a recording school like cras. cause they give you all the basics and its great information for anyone. Point is. you never stop learning and every experience is a good one no doubt about it but you get more out of interning.Like I said depends on you.

[nathanallenpinard]

I figured composing for cinema and tv would be the same as scoring?

Well you are forced to write for a given situation or scene of someone else's choosing.

[Mystery-Moon-Pie-Aud]

I've also looked into colleges and universities, which it really is hard to find.

I checked out Los Angeles School of Recording. It's not a college, and it's not a full university, just dedicated to the arts, so I'm skeptical on them.

I also checked Full Sail University in Florida. They look pretty decent, but again, dedicated to arts. But they have all the industries of arts, unlike LA School of Recording, which just have four general choices.

Your choices seem a lot better though. I wouldn't reccomend Julliard just because it seems moreso a classical school, very uptight, and not what we are looking for as far as recording. But they probably do have a program there for that.

[djsumara]

You really don't need schools to learn about music, I have taught my self everything about music with only the internet by my side and me playing around with FL Studio for some time. Its better to learn how to make music but learning the mechanics of your personal DAW and some simple guidelines. I am not a professional but I do know a lot about music and how to make it. The best minds in music are self taught, some have a education in music but most that I know are self taught, for example, Basshunter was self taught into his music, he made all of his music by messing around with some sounds, hes not the greatest artist but it shows that you don't need music school to be professional.

[Mystery-Moon-Pie-Aud]

I don't understand nathanallenpinard. Why would going into and graduating from recording not qualify as a huge bonus. If Universal Studios was hiring, and they look at someone's resume, and see that one guy has no recording education while another has a recording education at Berklee or Julliard, why would the plus be small?

[ImperfectDisciple]

I'm off to Belmont University for Music Composition. Great school for musicians. I mean, MUSIC CITY!!!

-But besides that, the staff is exceptional and qualified. I'm curious to see how this'll work out. It's a great school.

[LightKeeper]

This is interesting for me, because I'm interested in going into the same field. I don't think I could make it personally as a solo artist, but I'm interested in going into this specific field. I have two years left of High School, so I'll definitely pay attention to what this topic has to offer.

[nathanallenpinard]

I don't understand nathanallenpinard. Why would going into and graduating from recording not qualify as a huge bonus. If Universal Studios was hiring, and they look at someone's resume, and see that one guy has no recording education while another has a recording education at Berklee or Julliard, why would the plus be small?

I was more speaking of a composition class like the OP was asking, but recording can be in the same boat. While a recording university may teach the basics, they also miss a lot of things. It's hard for me to say. All I can tell you is that interning is better. Working with a real engineer is tons better, not to mention you get good connections. One particular engineer that I work with in Nightbird Recordings, pretty much tells me those recording classes can be useless. However, for any major beginner, a recording university might be a good idea, but probably too much money for what you'll get out of it. I can't really say with my own experiences.

Now, composition boils down to talent, connections, and networking. Most universities can only get you a few connections, and talent well...it's not necessarily taught. There are quite a few tv/game/film composers out there that don't have one ounce of training in the official matter (Hans Zimmer)

Also, notably even TALENT doesn't have as much as an impact on your career in Hollywood as contacts and networking do. Networking and connections are first, otherwise, no one will even hear your work. There are ways to do this, and probably the biggest one is going to conventions and promoting and whoring yourself out.

[ZStriefel]

you hit the nail right on the head Nathan, For people who have no prior experience it may be a good idea to go to said recording schools because they will teach you the basics. And a big thing to consider while interning is that you will not be the the only intern. And it gets very competitive. cause you're all trying to prove your worth. But you will learn more in the actual studio environment for sure.

[nathanallenpinard]

It's just the question of how much your going to pay, when in fact a job is not guaranteed JUST because you took courses. That almost goes for any field in college. College in itself is not meant to get a job, it's meant to broaden your knowledge.

If you want to learn recording just to know, then that's great. But if you want to learn to get a job in the field, there are many other ways of doing so other than college.

[Mrmilkcarton]

Thanks for the replies. No I'm not going to a recording school, parents won't let me and I myself am not going to do that. I have connections to Berklee right now, but I'm not sure how strong they are (friend of parents). I'm going to e-mail and hopefully meet him later on to talk.

I looked into USC it seems Composition courses are required before one can go into Scoring. USC might just be a transfer rather then a starting college.

I'm not sure where anyone got the idea of recording from but, a good and well known school will generally give you good contacts. Berklee seems to intern to many of the major production companies in the media (IE MTV and the likes). I may gain some good contacts if I were to go there, and I might learn some new stuff.

I don't exactly need help learning my DAW. I've managed to learn quite a few on my own. So yes I realize contacts can make or break the composer which is why I'm looking for a good school to get these.

In the end I will find some I just need to start writing scores ASAP.

[sarias]

i took a music recording class for funsies at the community college and got absolutely nothing out of it also everything i learned was engineering stuff so if you wanna be an engineer then maby recording school is good but if you wanna score then just knowing the basics should be fine dude make sure you have at least 3 pieces to give to them 1 solo, 1 solo with accomp and 1 duet or trio (this is the min) make them contrasting sounding and know your theory

[DavidOrr]

At 7/31/09 04:57 PM, Mrmilkcarton wrote: I would REALLY like the school to be open minded to genres. None of that "Classical and Jazz ONLY" crap where they are still stuck in the past.

If you are serious about going to school studying theory and composition, you're going to have to drop your prejudice. Most strong music schools that I'm aware of will focus on these genres, at least for your first couple years, because this is where music comes from. You absolutely need to learn the fundamentals and history to be the best composer you can be. You can't be a mathematician without learning the formulas, and you can't be a programmer without learning the language.

Even a very contemporary school like Berkley College of Music teaches you theory in more traditional methods using classical and jazz examples. That's one of the reasons why there is a 60% freshman dropout rate there; one because they accept most ANYONE, and two because kids think they can sneak their way around learning theory and history and jam all day (and are sorely mistaken).

Anyway, I have yet to hear about a theory/composition program that teaches theory and orchestration using rock and pop examples. Even if they are out there, I'd avoid them and stick to the tried-and-true.