Back to the Future 3 plot hole

[MonkeyV]

So today my friend and I were discussing whether or not a certain part of the movie Back to the Future III was actually a plot-hole.

The event in question is when Marty shows Doc the letter at the beginning of the movie. Doc then knows that he is eventually going to be in the old west working as a blacksmith. Doc and Marty later find out that Doc is going to be murdered in the old west. Doc sends Marty to the past in an attempt to warn future doc who is in the past.

This is a plot-hole. The Doc who is in the old west should already know that he is going to be murdered, considering that he is the Doc of the future (I think we can assume that his memory isn't that bad.)

Of course, all of this is assuming that we completely bypass the fact one cannot travel through time or effectively make a time travel movie, being that if someone correctly traveled back in time to change something, there wouldn't actually be any reason to (if you don't get this now, think hard about it for a strong feeling of mental satisfaction).
We should also forget about the whole "fading words on gravestone picture" thing.
Why would there be nothing written on the tombstone of a an empty grave?

Anyway, the whole conversation is now settled and it has been determined that I was right XD.

Here is a diagram to explain it to any of you who are confused:

[kikomannnn]

I don't think the writers thought anyone was going to really care about such a minor detail because they assumed fans would be waiting for the next hover scooter scene.

[TheWolfe]

I stopped caring about that movie the second it ended.

[igott]

Your diagram was fucking confusing. FIX IT.

[KeyboardCat]

That diagram confuses me.

[milinko959]

You cant travel through time. That should settle your argument.

[kiljoy96]

I'm finding it very difficult to read your graph chart thing.

[MonkeyV]

At 7/24/09 10:01 PM, kikomannnn wrote: I don't think the writers thought anyone was going to really care about such a minor detail because they assumed fans would be waiting for the next hover scooter scene.

Minor detail??? That "minor detail" changes the entire story.

At 7/24/09 10:04 PM, igott wrote: Your diagram was fucking confusing. FIX IT.

Stop being a pussy and read that diagram LIKE A MAN.

[TOEZ]

Marty gets sent back into the time before Future Doc dies and since the Doc from 1955 didn't go back to 1885 (it was the 1985 Doc) we can assume that Doc didn't know he was going to die until future Marty shows up and tells him.

The letter Marty gets in 1955 dates about a week before Doc dies (around September 1885), and it said he was happily living there since January 1, 1885.

I know I need to add something here.

[MonkeyV]

At 7/24/09 10:09 PM, milinko959 wrote: You cant travel through time. That should settle your argument.

I said that in my post.

EDIT:
I wrote the post a long long time ago, months to a year ago. My views have since slightly changed and I now think that time travel makes logical sense under the right conditions.

[wittyusernamehere]

...what?

[igott]

At 7/24/09 10:04 PM, igott wrote: Your diagram was fucking confusing. FIX IT.

Stop being a pussy and read that diagram LIKE A MAN.

But there's so many errors because the start is not logically in place with the future, and then you transport them after the letter was received.

[MonkeyV]

At 7/24/09 10:19 PM, igott wrote:

At 7/24/09 10:04 PM, igott wrote: Your diagram was fucking confusing. FIX IT.

Stop being a pussy and read that diagram LIKE A MAN.

But there's so many errors because the start is not logically in place with the future, and then you transport them after the letter was received.

Ok so technically everything after the point marked "present" is the future and everything before it is the past. Just ignore such minute details.

[TOEZ]

Here's my sketch of things, just the dates, if this clears any confusion.

[Kuoke]

When Marty encounters the Doc of 1955 he skews the timeline, meaning the doc of 1985 has no memory of it seeing as how he's from a completely different line.

[Joe]

At 7/24/09 09:58 PM, MonkeyV wrote: The event in question is when Marty shows Doc the letter at the beginning of the movie. Doc then knows that he is eventually going to be in the old west working as a blacksmith. Doc and Marty later find out that Doc is going to be murdered in the old west. Doc sends Marty to the past in an attempt to warn future doc who is in the past.

This is a plot-hole. The Doc who is in the old west should already know that he is going to be murdered, considering that he is the Doc of the future (I think we can assume that his memory isn't that bad.)

Nope. Alternate timeline.

The Doc that was sent to the old west is still living his life based on his original timeline. In that timeline, Marty was never there to give him the letter. Time travelers' memories are not effected themselves by changing events in their past. Just like how Marty returns to 1985 at the end, and is shocked to see all of the changes (his father's success, siblings' success, parents relationship, Biff's failure) because his memories are still based on the original timeline he lived through.

Their actions may change their surroundings and position in the altered future, and everyone outside of the time traveling experience sees no change and just knows everything that occurred in their timeline, but a time traveler will not get a sudden rush of information to make their memories up to date according to the new timeline.

Sorry, your friend was right.

[Dewmann]

It's a movie about TIME TRAVEL. You know there are going to be some holes in it.

Although just for the sake of the thread, here are a lot more of them for you to discuss. Enjoy

[Twilight]

Never seen the movie.

I want to now.

[Seatbeltnazi]

What is this I don't even.

[Sportsboy]

Its a MOVIE of course there are gonna be plotholes.

[ghostxero]

oh we wanna talk about plot holes huh? ok.................

the terminator, how do u know your not about to send your father back in time to pound ur mom in a hotel room and with a killer cyborg on the loose?

fast and the furious 4, han says there is some crazy shit going on in japan...so is fast and the furious right before tokyo drift?

and other weird movie things.....how is it that both michael biehn and that chick that plays john conners step mother are in both a terminatot film and aliens? both done by james cameron....

[MonkeyV]

At 7/24/09 10:52 PM, Joe wrote: Alternate timeline

Oh come on. Why would Marty care about a Doc that was in an entirely different timeline?

[Shakyjake]

You seem to be forgetting their miraculous ability to time travel with no light-speed travel or wormhole-based-travel-with-exotic-matter -with-reference-to-Casimir-effect.

Totally a major plot hole.

And if you haven't figured out by now that I'm being sarcastic; IT'S FUCKING FICTION!

[MonkeyV]

At 7/25/09 12:17 AM, MonkeyV wrote:

At 7/24/09 10:52 PM, Joe wrote: Alternate timeline

Oh come on. Why would Marty care about a Doc that was in an entirely different timeline?

Wait... I think I'm starting to see what you're saying. Gonna need to draw up some more diagrams.

[JadeTheAssassin]

STOP RUINING ONE OF THE BEST THINGS ABOUT MY CHILDHOOD!

lalalala i can't hear you lalalala it's the perfect movie allalalala

:3

[MonkeyV]

Christ, suddenly time-travel is a lot more complicated than I thought when I add in multiple time lines...

[MonkeyV]

Ok this is what I've got.
This is a representation of the 5th-dimensional plane, made of 4th-dimensional time lines.

Blue = Doc
Red = Marty
Green = Letter
"O" = Birth
"X" = Death

I've got some problems...
The Marty that has traveled to the third time line now needs to travel back to a spot in a time line before the spot where Doc dies, and in a different time line than one where Doc dies, after reading the newspaper clipping about doc dying in the past.
Also, I'm not sure what happens to second doc in the third time line, which is why his line just kind of goes half way and nothing happens. I don't believe he will be traveling back in time in this time line, because that would just reinforce the plot hole, but somehow there needs to be a time line in which Marty can travel to to save Doc.

Help please?

[goldentank50]

shit they got us"lets make like a tree and get outa here"

[someone-else]

No, the biggest plot hole is in the 2nd movie, where Old Biff goes back in time to give Young Biff the sports almanac. Technically, the instant he gave Young Biff the almanac, the timeline should of skewed at that point, making it impossible to return the time machine to Marty and Doc when they were in the future.