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Should marijuana be legalized?

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Ceratisa
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-29 21:18:21 Reply

At 1/29/13 09:10 PM, Light wrote:
At 1/29/13 08:47 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/29/13 08:42 PM, Light wrote:
At 1/29/13 08:40 PM, Ceratisa wrote: Why does he need to even justify his mention of wasted talent, when anyone who is being honest will admit to the mental fog that overtakes users.
I'd like to think I'm honest, and honestly, my mind is as sharp as ever. Most people who don't smoke the drug day in and day out would be inclined to agree.
Oh look, people who abuse a substance claiming it doesn't have negative effects, big surprise.
Oh look, someone disregarding the point someone is trying to make for trivial reasons. You may have just committed an ad hominem attack there, buddy.

Well, take a look at these studies.
Address my other points then, i'd feel to better about the already out of control pot use in my state.
And what points would they be?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11576028
So, it fucks with your head after you use it. Oh wait, we knew that..

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57501243-10391704/smo king-marijuana-regularly-as-a-teen-may-lower-iq-scores-as-an -adult/ How does this one help you?

And the alcohol vs pot thing isn't a valid point.

On a note, if you can't even read the thread, are you sure you are as sharp as ever? My post is quite visible.

Iron-Hampster
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-29 21:25:15 Reply

At 1/29/13 06:33 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
There is nothing good about marijuana that would warrant the effort necessary to make the large changes it would take to create a legal system of marijuana. In other words, legalization is a waste of time and resources (marijuana has that effect on... well... everything.)

so we already made the mistake of illegalizing it and forcing injustice over everyone who makes a personal choice, well we better do the lazy thing and hold course, even though there are pretty high long term costs to this law following no good reason to implement it to begin with.

as for the good it does, it creates jobs, it frees up the economy, it will create investment opportunities for everyone. All in all, legalization will reduce strain on the budget and reduce the labor surplus that makes it so hard to have a decent secure job these days. Topping that, the increased supply will lower the price which heavily weakens the main incentive for people to move on to harder drugs.


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Ceratisa
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-29 21:29:35 Reply

According to drug control logic. Limit supply to decrease abuse. So don't legalize marijuana, or we could agree both are ineffective and enforce or change current laws.

Should =/=
15% of my state is far too much, it is breaking my states back to pay for the drug counseling of young children. Can you tell me how increased supply will help the children in my state? Or will more people with a legal supply be able to sell it to some kids looking to get high?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-30 02:32:09 Reply

Ideally, if marijuana is legalized, it should only be sold in dispensaries where one will need to have proper identification and be of age to purchase marijuana.

So basically no real way to stop the resale.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-30 13:19:46 Reply

All I was trying to illustrate is that recreational users of marijuana don't necessarily harm others. This is purely anecdotal evidence, but I've been using marijuana recreationally since I was in ninth grade. I'm by all means a productive member of society as an adult. There's plenty of similar examples throughout this thread.

The burden of proof here is on you. I only need one person to prove that not all (as in 100%) users of marijuana have a negative impact on society. Now show me that the majority of users do have a negative impact, or at least that the number is high enough to justify a ban.

If you don't think that's a valid argument, let me know. If I misinterpreted your arguments I can assure you that it wasn't intentional.

At 1/29/13 08:17 PM, Ceratisa wrote: But an actual debate doesn't work like that. The only possible real argument other then "freedom" is the decreased costs on the legal system if we made marijuana legal.

My argument is freedom. My argument is that recreational users of marijuana don't deserve to go to prison if they haven't harmed anyone with their use, which is at the very least possible.

My state, the first to decriminalize marijuana has some of the highest % of young children in drug counseling. And it costs a lot of money. Even lobbyists for marijuana don't deny the negative impacts it causes, even more so on children.

The question you be asking is whether or not drug abuse is a cause of social ills (which you seem to believe) or a symptom.


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Ceratisa
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-30 13:56:59 Reply

"Victimless" crime of smoking pot (debatable) is still a crime. Your "freedom" to get high should not have the impact it would on others.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-30 14:03:24 Reply

At 1/30/13 01:56 PM, Ceratisa wrote: "Victimless" crime of smoking pot (debatable) is still a crime.

If it's debatable then debate it.
Explain why these victimless users should still be considered criminals along with harmful users.

Your "freedom" to get high should not have the impact it would on others.

What other people choose to do when they get high is not my problem just because I share a habit with them.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-30 15:44:08 Reply

At 1/30/13 02:03 PM, DickChick wrote: Explain why these victimless users should still be considered criminals along with harmful users.

That's why I say it should be like Washington was before they passed their recent law. Less than an ounce is merely ticket. A ticket is still a pentaly and a deterrent to the use of the drug, but it does not label one a criminal for merely possession it for personal use.

At 1/29/13 08:23 PM, Light wrote: Laziness does the same thing. We should obviously outlaw laziness then.

You can't outlaw a trait. It is both unethical and 100% impossible to really enforce.

Because most people drive while high.

So? That is no reason we should spend millions of dollars to make a sweeping change and put numerous people at risk.

Please tell me what talent is wasted with marijuana usage.

How many people do you know (I know, you're still a minor) who have used marijuana regularly and actually gone places? I can think of about 4, out of a total of over 100 people I knew that used it. That's well below that average for those who did not use marijuana. I've seen near genuis level people fail out of college due to incessant marijuana usage. I've seen intelligent high school folks who never made it to college because they spent all of their time smoking marijuana.

Everything in moderation. If used in moderation(as everything should be), then it won't result in neglect of responsibilities and duties.

And how has that worked out so far? Not well.

I smoke the drug in moderation and I maintain a 3.89 gpa in school. I don't seem to be fucking up in life.

And I have seen people who can drive extremely well after 6 beers. That doesn't mean we should legalize drinking and driving, now does it?

I've also seen cases where people took heroin to cover pain because they couldn't afford properly prescribed oxy, and till be able to live a normal life. That doesn't mean we should legalize heroin.

The evidence of 1 person being able to handle it, or even half of the entire marijuana smoking population being able to handle it is hardly reason to make it legal. Because if only half can handle it that means half cannot. Why open up more people to not handling it?

Besides its numerous medicinal uses and proven ability to relieve stress as well as its demonstrated recreational value.

Medicinal use is completely different and doesn't belong in the complete legalization debate.

Recreational value does NOT warrant legalization. ALL recreational drugs have recreational value, but again that does not mean we should legalize all drugs. Whether or not somebody 'likes to do something' has about zero bearing on whether it should be legal.


I've already disproven your point, so there's not much to say here.

You've disproven nothing. You have not made a case as to why we should change the status quo here.

Ceratisa
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-30 22:39:46 Reply

So basically no real way to stop the resale.
If we restrict sales to those 21 and older, it'll help a lot.

I said resale, do you understand the idea of buying or growing marijuana for recreational use then reselling it to kids for more?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-30 22:49:54 Reply

At 1/30/13 10:39 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
So basically no real way to stop the resale.
If we restrict sales to those 21 and older, it'll help a lot.
I said resale, do you understand the idea of buying or growing marijuana for recreational use then reselling it to kids for more?

what stops us from doing that with Alcohol?


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Ceratisa
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-31 10:11:45 Reply

At 1/30/13 10:49 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:
At 1/30/13 10:39 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
So basically no real way to stop the resale.
If we restrict sales to those 21 and older, it'll help a lot.
I said resale, do you understand the idea of buying or growing marijuana for recreational use then reselling it to kids for more?
what stops us from doing that with Alcohol?

IT HAPPENS WITH ALCOHOL! and even more people don't even confirm age!

That is my point you ignorant tool, it already happens with these substances! Why do you think it would be any different?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-31 12:47:16 Reply

easy answer - "no." it's so damn simple to just never do a single drug in your entire lifetime and never drink.. yet almost the entire population besides myself does it.


rules aren't what keep me in abidance.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-01-31 14:18:02 Reply

At 1/31/13 10:11 AM, Ceratisa wrote: That is my point you ignorant tool, it already happens with these substances! Why do you think it would be any different?

At least there'd be some age regulation. Drug dealers never card anyone.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 03:30:14 Reply

At 1/31/13 10:11 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/30/13 10:49 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:
At 1/30/13 10:39 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
So basically no real way to stop the resale.
If we restrict sales to those 21 and older, it'll help a lot.
I said resale, do you understand the idea of buying or growing marijuana for recreational use then reselling it to kids for more?
what stops us from doing that with Alcohol?
IT HAPPENS WITH ALCOHOL! and even more people don't even confirm age!

That is my point you ignorant tool, it already happens with these substances! Why do you think it would be any different?

When I was 15 and all the way up till I was 18 it was easier to buy bud than alcohol. It has always been the case. The reason for this being is that a drug dealer doesn't care about age. A drug dealer cares about monetary benefit. The cool thing about dealers is that they also don't care about quality. I have heard many a time about dealers spraying fly spray on their weed either because they think it will make people higher (dealers often aren't the smartest of folk) or they want to replicate the look of the crystals you see on bud so that you know it is high quality. More crystals more active ingredients.
So we have this system this broken as fuck system where dealers can deal what ever they want to impressionable young people who don't know what they are looking for or what to not get. Whereas if we legalized (which mark my words is going to happen) we could have systems in place for drugs not getting into the hands of young people. Sure it would happen from time to time just like I used to get alcohol when I was fifteen. But the reason so smoeked more in my teenage years than drank is because getting a fake I'd to get booze was such a hassle. Y not just get some weed?

Also Portugal decriminalized a few years back. In fact they decriminalized all drugs not just weed and they found a significant decline in drug usage across the board.

Also the reason there are so many kids in drug counselling is because when they are to court about their marijuana possession charges they are offered two choices. One, go to juvie. Two take drug counselling and go on probation. Take a guess what most kids take......


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 03:51:05 Reply

Here in new Zealand (I'm actually in Australia but I'm a new zealander and all this applies to Aussies too) you would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't smoke weed.
I smoke and I may not be the most stunning example of a person who contributes to society that is my fault not the drug that I use from time to time.
My friend adam is in medical school. He passed in Med school last year with an A average. Weed hasn't hindered his progress.
My brother has a six figure salary. He smokes. He works in biofuels.
My friends mum is a lawyer she smokes.
My friends mum is a social worker. She smokes and does all sorts of other drugs.
My friends dad is a psychologist. He smokes like a fucking chimney.

I could go on. These are all anecdotal but so are yours. You say you only know 4 people who were succesfull. I think the reason for this is because you don't hang out with smokers. The only smokers you see are the people whos lives are smokding. You know the kids with weed leaf patches all over their clothing and bandanas with weeds leafs and they have dreads and they are about as stereotypical as your can get.
I hate those motherfuckers they make people like you think we are all like that. New Zealand has the highest rate of pot smokers in the world. Its around 60%. You would think with such a highs percentage of smokers we would be beseiged with health problems and our country would be like Zimbabwe. But no. Our country is in a beter position that yours is. We have less debt. More public services and less unemployment.
Australia is the same. Their smoking rate isnt as high because of religion but it is still well ingrained in their society.
Their. Country is one of the richest in the world.
Weed doesn't impact on success. If weed wasn't there those people would still be useless because its not the drug its the person.

Prohibtion of alcohol didn't work and gave rise to organised crime which we still have to deal with. Have you seen how many people are killed or detained yearly because of the drug war? Because are routinely beheaded in Mexico and south America because of the powers your fucking drug war has given them.
Your prohibition is directly responsible for millions of dead. Its because of you that this shit keeps going on. We have a historical precedent for why outlawing. Substance doesn't work and you still think its a good fucking idea? How can you be so deluded?

Also decriminalization sucks. It means that the drugs are still impure because the drug production is still in the hands of criminals who don't care about you and the money they get given goes the the murder and assault we all love so very very much.
What does it say about a law when the criminals dont want legalization and the cops don't want legalization? Sort of makes for strange bedfellows no?


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 05:36:58 Reply

At 2/1/13 03:30 AM, svenisgod wrote: When I was 15 and all the way up till I was 18 it was easier to buy bud than alcohol. It has always been the case.

This is probably true for minors anywhere. I know it was extremely easy for me and my friends.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 09:35:16 Reply

I can't say I stand on either side of this debate. I'm told things by so many people, but since I've never done drugs myself I really don't know which side has more true/important facts. While I've always supported the U.S' War on Drugs I know many people myself that do a shit ton of drugs and some are high profession people. I do not think Marijuana should be legalized however, because while some people can do a bunch of drugs and come off clean, some people can just get a little bit of dope in there system and turn absolutely berserks.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 12:04:45 Reply

At 2/1/13 03:30 AM, svenisgod wrote:
At 1/31/13 10:11 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 1/30/13 10:49 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:
At 1/30/13 10:39 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
So basically no real way to stop the resale.
If we restrict sales to those 21 and older, it'll help a lot.
I said resale, do you understand the idea of buying or growing marijuana for recreational use then reselling it to kids for more?
what stops us from doing that with Alcohol?
IT HAPPENS WITH ALCOHOL! and even more people don't even confirm age!

That is my point you ignorant tool, it already happens with these substances! Why do you think it would be any different?
When I was 15 and all the way up till I was 18 it was easier to buy bud than alcohol. It has always been the case. The reason for this being is that a drug dealer doesn't care about age.

But this is all my point, we may be making opportunities for otherwise clean folks to screw over children. If it is already so easy there is no way you can convince me increasingly supply is good for children.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 13:43:09 Reply

At 2/1/13 12:04 PM, Ceratisa wrote: But this is all my point, we may be making opportunities for otherwise clean folks to screw over children. If it is already so easy there is no way you can convince me increasingly supply is good for children.

Minors have a much easier time getting their hands on illegal substances than they do obtaining regulated substances like alcohol. I think that's his point. So, regulating pot may do the same.


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Ceratisa
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 14:02:24 Reply

At 2/1/13 01:43 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:
At 2/1/13 12:04 PM, Ceratisa wrote: But this is all my point, we may be making opportunities for otherwise clean folks to screw over children. If it is already so easy there is no way you can convince me increasingly supply is good for children.
Minors have a much easier time getting their hands on illegal substances than they do obtaining regulated substances like alcohol. I think that's his point. So, regulating pot may do the same.

No because kids will still want it. Making the substance could very well just make more opportunistic dealers. And consider, just consider for a moment the increased supply at home kids may have access to.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 22:42:29 Reply

At 2/1/13 02:02 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
At 2/1/13 01:43 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:
At 2/1/13 12:04 PM, Ceratisa wrote: But this is all my point, we may be making opportunities for otherwise clean folks to screw over children. If it is already so easy there is no way you can convince me increasingly supply is good for children.
Minors have a much easier time getting their hands on illegal substances than they do obtaining regulated substances like alcohol. I think that's his point. So, regulating pot may do the same.
No because kids will still want it. Making the substance could very well just make more opportunistic dealers. And consider, just consider for a moment the increased supply at home kids may have access to.

Funny that. When weed was decriminalized in Portugal teenage pot smoking rates went down because it wasn't illegal and cool anymore.

I think you still have missed the point. We have told you from our experience (and many others because this is the case all over the world) keeping pot illegal makes it easier for kids to get.
How do these oppurtunistic dealers come about? What changes them from the dealers now?

Your reply wasn't really well explained but I'm going to try decipher your point. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Your point is if we legalized people would grow plants at home and kids at home would have more access via their parents?
OK well. If that is your point the same reasoning could be made for alcohol. My parents have an alcohol cabinet which they kept tabs on when I was young. They made sure that if I was taking from it I would be punished. And when I was older they opened it and showed me how the drink responsibly in a good safe environment. When I started really drinking myself I had already some experience on how to not be a piece of shit drunk.
That doesn't happen with weed. You buy trash from criminals who don't care about you. You never learn responsible use because you can never tell your parents there are no authority figures who will teach you proper usage.
If it were legal kids with problems with the drug could talk about it regularly and they could do it n a situation that wouldn't mean they would have to associate with piece of shit humans.

Sure weed would be closer to them but do you think it makes it easier to get? Fuck no. Parents should be able to mediate the use of their personal weed stash and would be responsible to ensure proper safe usage.
Also its not as if supply could really increase at this point. Weed is everywhere. Shittons of people grow it. I know a school teacher who grows in his roof. He's a really good and responsible teacher too.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 22:51:18 Reply

At 1/31/13 10:11 AM, Ceratisa wrote:

what stops us from doing that with Alcohol?
IT HAPPENS WITH ALCOHOL! and even more people don't even confirm age!

That is my point you ignorant tool, it already happens with these substances! Why do you think it would be any different?

if it already happens with alcohol, then you have 2 choices to keep your opinions consistent, either prohibit alcohol, or legalize marijuana. what's it gonna be, bub?


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-01 23:31:33 Reply

That is my point you ignorant tool, it already happens with these substances! Why do you think it would be any different?
if it already happens with alcohol, then you have 2 choices to keep your opinions consistent, either prohibit alcohol, or legalize marijuana. what's it gonna be, bub?

Hahahaha boom. I'm excited to see what he says to that.

probably the same thing he said before

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-02 03:22:07 Reply

At 7/22/09 04:48 PM, scarneck wrote: Marijuana still wont be legal for young teens. If it is legalized it will most likely be 18+ or 21+ I'm uncertain of which.

How about medical?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-02 11:16:54 Reply

I believe Barrack Obama said that he was inititally against gay marriage, but he did a pretty poor job at it, as more states legalized it during his first term than any other presidential term. He has of course come out now. He initially said he was against marijuana (despite the fact that he admitted to using it) so he may have changed his mind on that too as two states have legalized it (a gram at least). To be far, legalizing a kind of marriage is probably better worth fighting for than legalizing drugs.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-02 19:11:49 Reply

At 2/2/13 11:16 AM, Ericho wrote: I believe Barrack Obama said that he was inititally against gay marriage, but he did a pretty poor job at it, as more states legalized it during his first term than any other presidential term. He has of course come out now. He initially said he was against marijuana (despite the fact that he admitted to using it) so he may have changed his mind on that too as two states have legalized it (a gram at least). To be far, legalizing a kind of marriage is probably better worth fighting for than legalizing drugs.

Actually if you ask me about this, Government should simply leave Marriage alone, let alone let people get married regardless of the reasons, even then people are already seeing Marriage as a bond instead of a devotion, if people want devotion, they should treat religion as a private club of loyalty & devotion.

Again marijuana should be re-legalized along with hemp, this is after all the Land of the Free, if marijuana is re-legalized then police in turn will focus more towards better things such as murder, robbery, even reckless driving (in fact people need to replace the term of drunk driving and replace it with reckless driving, not all drunk drivers drive reckless through that's an entirely different issue onto itself).

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-02 19:14:09 Reply

At 2/2/13 07:11 PM, Thecrazyman wrote: Actually if you ask me about this, Government should simply leave Marriage alone, let alone let people get married regardless of the reasons, even then people are already seeing Marriage as a bond instead of a devotion, if people want devotion, they should treat religion as a private club of loyalty & devotion.

My apologizes, I should in fact add onto this comment (newgrounds really needs an Edit button sooner or later) that "let people get married regardless of the reasons so as long such individuals are willing to get married". that's what I should of added on that last post.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-02 21:48:34 Reply

i know this is about weed, but this post can sum up my feelings about a lot of things, including weed

The government does not have a job to protect people from themselves.

"Wah, I started gambling and now I'm addicted".

Yeah? Some people CAN gamble responsibly. Why should we take away their right to gamble because some fucktard can't control themselves?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-02 22:22:10 Reply

Yes it should how is it any different from cigarettes and alcohol? An intoxicating drug; an aspect of our personal lives that should be a personal decision.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? 2013-02-03 00:01:22 Reply

At 2/2/13 10:22 PM, ubc56950 wrote: Yes it should how is it any different from cigarettes and alcohol? An intoxicating drug; an aspect of our personal lives that should be a personal decision.

Too bad your personal decisions effect others when you get high.

And once again mentioning cigarettes is invalid because of the difference in what it does to your body. And bringing up what alcohol does to one's mind isn't a pro marijuana argument. It is an anti alcohol argument. People who keep bringing up alcohol must have the mentality of a first grader.

Because X is acceptable why can't I do Y? That doesn't really make any sense here.

Being Intoxicated effects more than just you, I'm not sure how selfish one would have to be to not understand that.