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Should marijuana be legalized?

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jAk88
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Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 11:34 AM Reply

Lawmakers in the state of California are trying to get an initiative passed in 2010 (voted for by the people of California themselves) that would effectively legalize and regulate marijuana.

They would be the first state to do so.

I've grown progressively more libertarian on this issue over the years, especially after having my own experiences with marijuana and coming to the realization that alcohol is much more dangerous than marijuana, making everyone who drinks alcohol and thinks marijuana is so bad and dangerous a hypocrite.

RubberTrucky
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 11:49 AM Reply

I still feel that I can drink alcohol for the taste of it and can only use marijuana to get high.
Lining alcohol with marihuana would only work when you consider alcohol being used for getting drunk. (which I find stupid)

But I would still say that it can be legalised, only if marijuana is restricted to private use at home.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 01:25 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 11:49 AM, RubberTrucky wrote: But I would still say that it can be legalised, only if marijuana is restricted to private use at home.

;;;
I believe that laws similar to the drinking & driving laws would also work for Marijuana use.

I'm actually very conflicted over 'legalization' & would personally at first like to see 'decriminalization'.

Where persons who grow or have small quantities of the plant cannot be prosecuted or even if they have larger amounts, they cannot be get criminal records for it. I still don't think allowing children to have & smoke pot, tobacco or drink alcohol is at all unreasonable. Until you reach the age of majority children need to be protected IMO.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 04:48 PM Reply

Marijuana still wont be legal for young teens. If it is legalized it will most likely be 18+ or 21+ I'm uncertain of which.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 04:52 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 01:25 PM, morefngdbs wrote:
I believe that laws similar to the drinking & driving laws would also work for Marijuana use.

I'd also add the smoking restrictions.
I don't want to smell ganja when I am about to enjoy my beer.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 04:55 PM Reply

There's no reason that one cannot legalize pot, and then classify it in the same way that we do Alcohol and Tobacco sales, making it where the individual must be a legal adult (so at least 18) with proper ID to purchase and possess marijuana, and related paraphenalia. The ban on it to me just hasn't made huge amounts of sense and the arguments to me are not pursuasive (particularly that "gateway drug" one).

Stop wasting time busting people who use it, grow it, and whatever, and let's just legalize it and create some damn jobs and another revenue stream already. I can't see where responsible legalization would be that much worse then legalized drinking and tobacco smoking.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 05:00 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 04:55 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Stop wasting time busting people who use it, grow it, and whatever, and let's just legalize it and create some damn jobs and another revenue stream already. I can't see where responsible legalization would be that much worse then legalized drinking and tobacco smoking.

Let's not forget the international aspect of this.

By legalizing pot, we can now no longer depend on South American drug lords for marijuana, effectively slowing down the drug cartels and drug trade, which I think the majority of America wants, unless the War on Drugs is considered to be false.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 05:43 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 05:00 PM, BrianEtrius wrote:
Let's not forget the international aspect of this.

By legalizing pot, we can now no longer depend on South American drug lords for marijuana, effectively slowing down the drug cartels and drug trade, which I think the majority of America wants, unless the War on Drugs is considered to be false.

By in large, it is. I mean yes the legalization of marijuana is considered the most common nuisence of it but largly it's seen as an unwinnable war. Also, I think you're overestimating how much of the money catels make comes from marijuana. Yes it will be a bite out out of their profits but will it really be a crippling one?
Also, and I ask this earnestly, would we be using American farmland to grow it?


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 05:48 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 05:43 PM, stafffighter wrote: Also, I think you're overestimating how much of the money catels make comes from marijuana. Yes it will be a bite out out of their profits but will it really be a crippling one?

There's still so many other illegal drugs left.
We would have to legalise them also.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 05:56 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 05:43 PM, stafffighter wrote: Also, I think you're overestimating how much of the money catels make comes from marijuana. Yes it will be a bite out out of their profits but will it really be a crippling one?

It might now be crippling, but it is a start.

It'll also help countries overrun by these drug lords, like Mexico and what not, because the easiest way to kill a capitalistic business is to stop the demand.

Also, VERY INTERESTING.

Also, and I ask this earnestly, would we be using American farmland to grow it?

Well, considering the drug is already grown illegally in some states, possibly.


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aviewaskewed
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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 06:01 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 05:48 PM, RubberTrucky wrote: There's still so many other illegal drugs left.
We would have to legalise them also.

Yeah, the cartels are making the money off the harder to grow shit (the stuff that we've actually taken more steps to stamp out), so that argument doesn't work too well. Something people can grow in their basement if they're willing to put out the financial outlay is not the bread and butter of any criminal organization, or any business at all. The more ability you have to say "this is a specialized thing that we can get you but not everyone else can" the better.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 06:08 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 05:48 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:
At 7/22/09 05:43 PM, stafffighter wrote: Also, I think you're overestimating how much of the money catels make comes from marijuana. Yes it will be a bite out out of their profits but will it really be a crippling one?
There's still so many other illegal drugs left.
We would have to legalise them also.

Here's an idea: legalize all currently illegal drugs, but forbid turning a profit from any of them. No one will distribute if they can't sell, and fewer people will use with less distribution. For those that still use, acknowledge narcotics are still dangerous and provide help.

Thoughts?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 06:11 PM Reply

I wonder who will distribute if he can't make profit from it.
It would be something the government supplies on taxpayers money for the druggies.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 06:23 PM Reply

Legalizing marijuana is not going to cripple drug trade, but it isn't going to help them either. It can however help us as long as there are regulations. Legalizing other harder to come by drugs would not make as much sense considering they are much more dangerous and addictive. I don't see what there is to lose by legalizing marijuana.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 06:37 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 06:23 PM, KidneyThief wrote: Legalizing marijuana is not going to cripple drug trade, but it isn't going to help them either. It can however help us as long as there are regulations. Legalizing other harder to come by drugs would not make as much sense considering they are much more dangerous and addictive. I don't see what there is to lose by legalizing marijuana.

I do wonder how long it will be untill people will use the legalisation of canabis to ask for legalisation of the hard stuff in the same way alcohol and cigs are being used right now.
Besides, some may argue that the bad rep of harder stuff is mostly just a media scare tactic.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 07:11 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 06:08 PM, Dawnslayer wrote:
Here's an idea: legalize all currently illegal drugs, but forbid turning a profit from any of them. No one will distribute if they can't sell, and fewer people will use with less distribution. For those that still use, acknowledge narcotics are still dangerous and provide help.

Thoughts?

Well, how would that work to make them without profit? Like government subsidized cocaine?


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 07:24 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 07:11 PM, stafffighter wrote: Well, how would that work to make them without profit? Like government subsidized cocaine?

That's my point. If you can't sell a product, you don't make it. If you can't make a profit off dealing drugs, you don't deal; and if manufacturers can't distribute the drug, they won't make it. Users would have to make the drug themselves; and considering people would rather buy a drug than make it themselves, they're more likely to quit.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 07:37 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 07:24 PM, Dawnslayer wrote:

That's my point. If you can't sell a product, you don't make it. If you can't make a profit off dealing drugs, you don't deal; and if manufacturers can't distribute the drug, they won't make it. Users would have to make the drug themselves; and considering people would rather buy a drug than make it themselves, they're more likely to quit.

So in short, there's no way to make your plan happen. You're really displaying the steriotypical pot activists oversimplification here.


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 07:53 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 07:24 PM, Dawnslayer wrote:
That's my point. If you can't sell a product, you don't make it.

I fail to see how this is essentially different from prohibition...


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 08:02 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 07:53 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:
At 7/22/09 07:24 PM, Dawnslayer wrote:
That's my point. If you can't sell a product, you don't make it.
I fail to see how this is essentially different from prohibition...

It's different in that it lets him bathe in his correctness about tha falibility of human nature, and get stoned.


I have nothing against people who can use pot and lead a productive life. It's these sanctimonius hippies that make me wish I was a riot cop in the 60's

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 08:10 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 06:08 PM, Dawnslayer wrote: Here's an idea: legalize all currently illegal drugs, but forbid turning a profit from any of them. No one will distribute if they can't sell, and fewer people will use with less distribution. For those that still use, acknowledge narcotics are still dangerous and provide help.

Thoughts?

That would do absolutely nothing to the black market, unless a lot of powerful non-profits sprung up from nowhere.

A better idea would be to put a price cap on these drugs that would allow large, economical producers to turn a profit, but not smaller illegitimate operations.

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 09:18 PM Reply

I say yes. It has been proven that mary jane does less damage to you then beer and you can never od for it. So i say yes anyone else?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 22nd, 2009 @ 10:21 PM Reply

At 7/22/09 09:18 PM, popo9913 wrote: I say yes. It has been proven that mary jane does less damage to you then beer and you can never od for it. So i say yes anyone else?

I also say yes.


~napkin smile!

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 23rd, 2009 @ 02:07 AM Reply

I believe that if people are going to be stupid, America deserves to profit off of them.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 23rd, 2009 @ 02:15 AM Reply

Why exactly do you call them stupid?

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 23rd, 2009 @ 02:30 AM Reply

yeah it should be legalized. alcohol is way worse for people.
but if they legalize it they should make the age 18 and not 21
also just for reference how many people have seen "REEFER MADNESS" the old propaganda film if you haven't google it now


what can I say

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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 23rd, 2009 @ 11:52 AM Reply

At 7/22/09 08:10 PM, Elfer wrote:
A better idea would be to put a price cap on these drugs that would allow large, economical producers to turn a profit, but not smaller illegitimate operations.

I can just imagine it.
A huge building with acres of adjectant green houses and in fancy letters
"Agorrex Canabis Industries"
And then you have all those packs in the supermarket next to the cig "Agorrex extra" "Agorrex regular" "Aggorex fresh flavoured" "Agorrex lite"...


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 23rd, 2009 @ 01:14 PM Reply

I don't like pot, that said, I would still have it legalized.

But, I think buying pot legally should have some strings attached, like you need to get a permit to buy it from authorized sources (Not from some guy named Jed growing it in his basement) and if you are caught driving a car while high or some stupid shit like that than your right to buy pot legally gets taken away, Plus a fine.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 23rd, 2009 @ 01:30 PM Reply

I absolutely think marijuana should be legalized, but before I go throwing out my why's and when's, I wanted to respond to some of the statements I've just lurked through.

At 7/22/09 11:34 AM, jAk88 wrote: [...] making everyone who drinks alcohol and thinks marijuana is so bad and dangerous a hypocrite.

I don't agree. It simply makes them ill-informed. You're lumping alcohol users together the same way the ignorant 'anti-marijuana' crowd lumps pot users together. Substance addiction and abuse is a serious issue and it's dangerous to a differing degree depending on the substance. For alcohol, the effects are rather obvious and pronounced. For marijuana, it's the same deal. Really though, it all comes down to this: moderation is the tell-tale sign of responsible use, regardless of the drug involved.

At 7/22/09 11:49 AM, RubberTrucky wrote: I still feel that I can drink alcohol for the taste of it and can only use marijuana to get high.

How do you explain the invention of devices that employ water-filtration, vaporization, etc.? How do you explain people's tendency to roll marijuana instead of using methods that "waste" less smoke? How do you explain the thousands of different strains, hybrids, quality level, etc. present in the marijuana world? The fact is: even people who don't smoke the shit can identify the pungent odor it produces. There's a taste there, and it's different for different strains and different smoking methods.

You can smoke marijuana for taste... it just isn't accessible enough (thanks to it's illegality) for the lay person to do so.

At 7/22/09 08:10 PM, Elfer wrote: A better idea would be to put a price cap on these drugs that would allow large, economical producers to turn a profit, but not smaller illegitimate operations.

I don't think that's the best way to go with marijuana. I think it'd be far better to foster a sense of community with the trade. Laws should encourage small-time mom/pop businesses cultivating and selling. I don't want to buy pot from 'Kappy's pot farm,' I want to buy pot from 'Aunt Jane's Fine Strains and other wares'. Incidentally, your suggestions at capping the price would ultimately benefit the small-timers much more than the large-scale operations. Why? The cost of moving product all over the country with a cap in the retail price of the substance you're moving would essentially cripple the business. Small-timers, however, have basically negligible costs associated with it. They could maintain a small greenhouse producing only 50-100 plants, a larger production in their backyard garden during the growing season, and the only costs for transportation would be the same ones incurred driving to and from work every day.

At 7/23/09 02:07 AM, Psychophobia wrote: I believe that if people are going to be stupid, America deserves to profit off of them.

That makes you an asshole as well as I can figure. Not to mention one of those stupid people you're apparently decrying. America doesn't profit from stupidity in any sense. No, America profits from education and hard-work. There is a tendency among heavy marijuana users to become apathetic and do little when it comes to societally productive endeavors, but establishing a marijuana trade would likely nullify that greatly.

------------------

Now then, I think marijuana should be legalized, as stated. I know MA has recently submitted a bill for the legalization and taxation of marijuana, and I know that California has something in the works for their state, which is severely strapped for cash. I hope marijuana is legalized. When the decriminalization question was brought up in the past election, MA voters passed the measure overwhelmingly in favor of decriminalization. Weed did better here than Obama did, and he CRUSHED McCain here in MA (obviously).

They should stiffen enforcement for impairment-related unlawfulness, however. Not criminal repercussions, but rehabilitation efforts should be increased. Honestly, I think drugs should be treated like a license to drive is. Recreational drugs are a privilege, not a right. The same way people take driving school classes they should have to take classes to learn about marijuana and it's effects. Once they've passed the state certified test, they have a license to buy and consume. If they're abusing their license to buy to provide it to those without a license to consume: they're stripped of their license to buy (but not to consume themselves). If they're abusing their license to consume by using at work, using while driving (... even though I don't really believe marijuana effects judgment behind the wheel much at all, personal anecdote below), etc. then they lose their license to consume as well.

Compared to underage drinking, how often do you witness or hear about underage driving? Exactly. A licensing system for consumers makes a lot of sense. Personally, I don't mind a little bureaucracy when it comes to things like that. ESPECIALLY compared to prohibition. And if it keeps irresponsible users off the stuff (in public) even remotely as well as current license laws do, then I'm happy. If you're on your own property, or in your own home, however, you should be allowed to do as you please. Same as you can have your 13 year old behind the wheel of your car up and down your driveway and parents can give their underage children a drink in the privacy of their own home you should be able to consume, grow, whatever your own shit on your own property.

Anecdote time: driving down a local backroad with two passengers in the car in an old 240 wagon, stoned out of my fucking mind (all of us). I'm doing 5-10 over the 25 mph speed limit. A deer leaps out in front of the car and I lock up the brakes IMMEDIATELY, still maintaining the presence of mind to steer slight left in order to avoid hitting the deer. I kiss the poor thing's hide with my bumper as the weight of the car sets back from the stop. Stopping distance at that speed is 51 ft, according to this, so I somehow managed to view a deer entering the roadway from the woods, understand that I was about to hit the deer, and slam on my brakes fast enough to reach a dead stop in at least 52 feet, all heavily under the influence of marijuana.


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Response to Should marijuana be legalized? Jul. 23rd, 2009 @ 01:45 PM Reply

At 7/23/09 01:30 PM, Evark wrote:
You can smoke marijuana for taste... it just isn't accessible enough (thanks to it's illegality) for the lay person to do so.

Didn't know that.

A licensing system for consumers makes a lot of sens

This is something I don't get. Driving without proof you can is potentially lethal for yourself and other people. As well as handling guns.
But Marihuana is rather harmless in itself. A license for doing weed is a bit exaggerated, I feel. As far as I'm concerned, if marihuana became legal, it might as well be legal for everyone (no need for a 18+ label even) since there are no real dangers attached to it.
I mean, alcoholism is something that is bad, but I won't be saying that we need to invent a drinking exam and pass for a person to be able to drink beer.

Anecdote time: driving down a local backroad with two passengers in the car in an old 240 wagon, stoned out of my fucking mind (all of us). I'm doing 5-10 over the 25 mph speed limit. A deer leaps out in front of the car and I lock up the brakes IMMEDIATELY, still maintaining the presence of mind to steer slight left in order to avoid hitting the deer.

I wonder if this really gives that marihuanna+driving is better, or that you just got lucky (or you are that good)


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