Obama

[TheShrike]

Love him or hate him, he's a hell of a lot better than Bush. He's also a liar and much softer than you wanted him to be. I believe he wants change, but I also believe he's suddenly found himself on top of the world, and it appears that shock may have set in, or he has stalled or entirely forgotten the wave that brought him to where he is.

Proceed to flame each other and myself endlessly.

[Nick2292]

He may be better then Bush, but i really don't think he's anything special. I really want to know why so many people thought he was going to do so much better for us? He made great speeches and had great ideas, OK that's great but how the fuck is this helping me get a job? I really feel like he hasn't helped anything.

[LazyDrunk]

Boy, he sure was a great campaigner!

And keeping Biden & Pelosi around as numbers two and three? Brilliant.

Once he signs away US sovereignty to either the UN or newly founded North American Union (Amero anyone?) his quest for change will be complete. One world, one people. Sieg heil.

[FlyMusik]

I think that Obama has great potential. He overall fits the job very well. I do think that he is overestimating his abilities, and everyone else is too. He's not only expected to save the US, now he's expected to save the world. Thus, he's trying to fix the economy with another bail out (which didn't work), he's trying to provide universal health care, stop the war in Iraq and send troops into Afghanistan all at the same time. That's way too much to expect of one person, even if they are the president. And check this out, now people quite literally worship him. He's only human. I'm all in favor of him, i voted for him, but i think he's over his head.

[SuperSuperKLC]

Obamanation = Abomination

[TheShrike]

At 7/20/09 07:13 AM, LazyDrunk wrote: Once he signs away US sovereignty to either the UN or newly founded North American Union (Amero anyone?) his quest for change will be complete. One world, one people. Sieg heil.

Except only lunatics believe shit like that. One of my more right-wing friends told me he was planning to cancel the fourth of July- permanently.

He's not a facist, and if he tried going down that road, he wouldn't get far. Charisma can only take you so far.

At 7/20/09 08:06 AM, FlyMusik wrote: I think that Obama has great potential. He overall fits the job very well. I do think that he is overestimating his abilities, and everyone else is too.

My point, actually. But then again, just how ready is any honest person for that particular job?

He's only human.

Exactly.

[All-American-Badass]

I personally don't like Obama and i didnt have much of a problem with Bush but i think he(Bush) screwed himself over after Katrina hit. What i dont like is how much money Obama is approving the spending of. Plus how much he's expanding government (Auto Bailouts, Cap and Trade, and other bills that may be passed).

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/20/09 06:41 PM, All-American-Badass wrote: I personally don't like Obama and i didnt have much of a problem with Bush but i think he(Bush) screwed himself over after Katrina hit. What i dont like is how much money Obama is approving the spending of. Plus how much he's expanding government (Auto Bailouts, Cap and Trade, and other bills that may be passed).

A lot of the spending people are bitching Obama did is basically the exact same kind of stuff you were getting with Bush as he left, and probably would have gotten with McCain anyway. I don't expect any real physical responsibility out of either party at this point. But my biggest problem is we were promised honesty and transparency on this stuff and we haven't been getting that, or things like the GM bailout which didn't really help since GM still had to enter bankruptcy and pull itself out that way.

Also welcome home Shrikey :)

[Memorize]

At 7/20/09 10:05 AM, TheShrike wrote:

He's not a facist, and if he tried going down that road, he wouldn't get far. Charisma can only take you so far.

NEWSFLASH: "In the news Today, Obama has announced his intention to have the government take control over General Motors and give it another $40 billion in federal aid on top of other federal aid given by Bush..."

... No, he's not a facist...

lol, sorry, it was begging to be said.

[BillyShakes]

At 7/20/09 08:10 PM, Memorize wrote: NEWSFLASH: "In the news Today, Obama has announced his intention to have the government take control over General Motors and give it another $40 billion in federal aid on top of other federal aid given by Bush..."

... No, he's not a facist...

Actually that would make him a socialist...

Anyway, I'm not envious of the situation he has taken over. G.W. left behind a cluster fuck. I think Obama intends well. And I have faith that he will try to address some of the key issues he ran on. He is already addressing health care and energy. He is attempting to address the economy. I personally believe he is going about ti the right way (I studied Keynesian economics in school), however is walking a think line.

I do not approve of the way he has handles certain issues and is not as transparent as his campaign would have lead us to believe. I still have faith, but he has a lot to prove.

However, if he only turns out to be a mediocre president, he will still be leaps and bounds ahead of the previous administration.

Right now, I would like to issue a complaint to Obama critics. Not that you shouldn't criticisize him, by all means if you have a complaint say it. You cannot, however, blame the economy on him. The economy was fucked while he was still only a candidate, and consistanly said things would't look better until 2010 (which many forcast place as early as september). You can't expect him to wave a magic wand and create 1,000,000 jobs. Correcting the economy is much like steering an oil tanker. You make an adjustment and you have to wait to see how the market reacts. It is not an instant fix, there is a lot and I mean A LOT of lag.

[Korriken]

At 7/20/09 09:08 PM, BillyShakes wrote:

Right now, I would like to issue a complaint to Obama critics. Not that you shouldn't criticisize him, by all means if you have a complaint say it. You cannot, however, blame the economy on him.

perhaps not, but the blame can be pinned on his party, which shut down the hearings on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and blatantly LIED about there being problems there, despite the warning of economists "There are no problems here!" "I'm pissed off that we're even here!"

of course, no one remembers that, all they remember is that Bush was in office when it happened, so it HAD to be his fault and none other. Naturally enough the dems covered up their role in it and hammered it into every sheep's tiny brain that bush directly caused the collapse.

the amount of passes that Obama has gotten to date is mind boggling that ANY administration can avoid criticism like he can. This man is completely reliant on his teleprompter in order to give a good speech.Naturally, this is covered up. Every time Bush made a gaffe, it was headline news. When Obama gaffes, its covered up.

and of course, Obama and many many others rode in on a massive wave of "zomfgnotbush". It didn't help that the dems more or less put anyone who went against obama on a chopping block. Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher is one such victim of his cronies. They went in and made headline news of his life story, luckily the cow didn't get away with it and is now being sued for it.

They also made Sarah Palin out to be an idiot, which she is not. Because she doesn't speak with one of them posh northern boring as pigshit accents, and the fact that she has some survival skills, must mean she is an inbred hick and a dumbass. Irony is, if society came tumbling down, people like Obama would be doomed to perish while "Stupid inbred hicks" like Palin would actually survive. but I digress.

I just hope people wake up before 2010 and manage to throw out enough liberals (from both parties) to give the congress some semblance of balance. When things get thrown off too far (like it is now) that opens the floodgate for 1 party to trump the other and pass whatever they want and laugh at the oppositions vain attempts to stop them, which causes trouble.

[GrammerNaziElite]

At 7/20/09 11:17 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 7/20/09 09:08 PM, BillyShakes wrote:

Every time Bush made a gaffe, it was headline news. When Obama gaffes, its covered up.

To be fair, Bush's mastery of the English language is comparable to that of a dog's.

[BillyShakes]

At 7/20/09 11:17 PM, Korriken wrote: perhaps not, but the blame can be pinned on his party, which shut down the hearings on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and blatantly LIED about there being problems there, despite the warning of economists

It would be narrow minded to pin this whole financial crisis on the democrats because Barny Frank didn't believe there was an issue back in 2004. It was after all a republican controlled house by nearly 30 seats. Many key factors you could point to are the abolishment of rental credits in favor of getting every american into a home, deregulation of financial systems, the revamping of bankruptcy code, keeping rates artificially low for too long after 9/11, and making it so the only asset an person can legally leverage is a home have all lead to a massive housing bubble. Nearly all of that happened under strict Republican control.

Naturally enough the dems covered up their role in it and hammered it into every sheep's tiny brain that bush directly caused the collapse.

The dems had there role in it as well. it would be ignorant to assume otherwise. Personally I blame free market capitalists. To assume that any man made system is benevolent on its own fruition is lunacy, especially when all its operations are made by flawed men.

the amount of passes that Obama has gotten to date is mind boggling that ANY administration can avoid criticism like he can.

Now you are just making things up. I remember being told to leave the country for criticizing Bush in October 2001. That man had a fanatical following after 9/11. it took 6 years of concentrated effort to go from the countries most beloved president to its most hated. And the comment that Obama's gaffes get covered up is also not true. they appear on the daily show just as Bush's had.

They also made Sarah Palin out to be an idiot

She didn't need much help. Seriously, did you watch the Katie Couric interviews? She may be intellegent. But she did a piss poor job of conveying that.

I just hope people wake up before 2010 and manage to throw out enough liberals (from both parties) to give the congress some semblance of balance. When things get thrown off too far (like it is now) that opens the floodgate for 1 party to trump the other and pass whatever they want and laugh at the oppositions vain attempts to stop them, which causes trouble.

Here is the cycle of a two party system. The democrats had control for a good long period in the 30's-60's but became just as corrupt as the republicans are now. This lead to the rise of repuiblican party with Nixon,Ford,Reagan,Bush,A congressional Majority thoughout most of Clintons administration, and W. After 30 years of control and the shit storm we are in now, we want to be fucked over by someone new.

[bdash1990]

His own party has forgone him.
What does that say?
Congress said NO to the new healthcare plan.
Congress said NO to the Stimulus package.

The Country is OUT OF MONEY.

[BillyShakes]

At 7/21/09 05:08 AM, bdash1990 wrote: His own party has forgone him.
What does that say?
Congress said NO to the new healthcare plan.
Congress said NO to the Stimulus package.

What sources do you have? There was no vote over healthcare reform. The bills(there are three of them are still being and debated.) They expect to have something to vote on by August.
And as for he stimulus package... they said YES. And it was passed a long time ago. If you are talking about a second stimulus package it has been talked about. But not even proposed. Since as only half of the first package has been spent.

[Memorize]

At 7/20/09 09:08 PM, BillyShakes wrote:

... No, he's not a facist...

Actually that would make him a socialist...

Government control with Private Ownership isn't socialism.

[BillyShakes]

At 7/21/09 11:00 AM, Memorize wrote:

Government control with Private Ownership isn't socialism.

Socialism:#a political theory advocating state ownership of industry
# an economic system based on state ownership of capital
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

[Memorize]

At 7/21/09 01:21 PM, BillyShakes wrote:

At 7/21/09 11:00 AM, Memorize wrote:

Government control with Private Ownership isn't socialism.

Socialism:#a political theory advocating state ownership of industry
# an economic system based on state ownership of capital
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Economic Facism

It is true that fascist systems permitted property ownership, while socialist ones did not. However, fascist "property rights" were only nominal: A businessman (such as Oskar Schindler) would retain legal title to his goods, but he would not retain any control over them.

For instance: GM could have a CEO or several as well as being owned by an individual(s), but the government can mandate what they can and can not do or build, or could come in to take away that property.

[BillyShakes]

At 7/21/09 01:35 PM, Memorize wrote:

For instance: GM could have a CEO or several as well as being owned by an individual(s), but the government can mandate what they can and can not do or build, or could come in to take away that property.

However, since the government has a majority share in the company (60%). Thus is not owned privately and cannot be economically fascist by definition.

[Memorize]

At 7/21/09 02:26 PM, BillyShakes wrote:

However, since the government has a majority share in the company (60%). Thus is not owned privately and cannot be economically fascist by definition.

Not much different from a fascist government using its control to assume more ownership.

[Ericho]

I like the image at the start where it looks like a negative perhaps reflecting his negative image of Bush or the fact that he's black.

Seriously though, I think he's pretty good. That's really it.

[All-American-Badass]

At 7/20/09 11:17 PM, Korriken wrote: I just hope people wake up before 2010 and manage to throw out enough liberals (from both parties) to give the congress some semblance of balance. When things get thrown off too far (like it is now) that opens the floodgate for 1 party to trump the other and pass whatever they want and laugh at the oppositions vain attempts to stop them, which causes trouble.

People are actually starting to wake up but despite obama's approval rating dipping below 60 % the republican party is still in a mess and voter apathy will probally give them a fair amount of ground in congress. so it will be a clusterfuck in 2011

[TheShrike]

Economic facism is a made-up term, probably recently, probably by a neo-con.

Facism is a political ideology. "economic facism" is a weak renaming of socialism/communism.

Believe it or not, Obama is not a facist, and we do not live in a facist state.

[Bacchanalian]

At 7/20/09 08:06 AM, FlyMusik wrote: That's way too much to expect of one person

I'd just like to note... there are other people running this country too. And then even more people working toward initiatives set out by the people who are running this country.

[Memorize]

At 7/25/09 10:54 AM, TheShrike wrote: Economic facism is a made-up term, probably recently, probably by a neo-con.

Awe, did something crawl up your ass?

lol, not a surprise there.

Believe it or not, Obama is not a facist, and we do not live in a facist state.

No, but he does have the same withdraw from Iraq as Bush and he did keep the warrant-less wiretapping and made the government immune from any lawsuit.

Not to mention he's expanding Bush's idea of "compassionate conservatism" of government takeover of the healthcare industry under the claim of "we must help the uninsured".

[AapoJoki]

At 7/25/09 10:54 AM, TheShrike wrote: "economic facism" is a weak renaming of socialism/communism.

Why bother, though? I would have thought that the words socialist and communist are strong enough a label to discredit someone in the USA.

No wait... let me guess. The word fascist can be used to appeal to a liberal audience more effectively than socialist/communist, if you want to alienate them from someone. Kind of like calling George W. Bush a socialist rather than a fascist, when talking to a conservative audience.

[TheShrike]

At 7/25/09 11:46 AM, Memorize wrote:

At 7/25/09 10:54 AM, TheShrike wrote: Economic facism is a made-up term, probably recently, probably by a neo-con.

Awe, did something crawl up your ass?

lol, not a surprise there.

I'm not certain how you could possibly misconstrue what I said as an attack, or even something said in a menacing tone. But I am familiar with your tendency to do so, so...

lol, not a surprise there.

Not to mention he's expanding Bush's idea of "compassionate conservatism" of government takeover of the healthcare industry under the claim of "we must help the uninsured".

I love this thing you do. They should make a name for your logical fallacies. Oh. Wait. lol, not a surprise there.

[Korriken]

At 7/21/09 05:28 PM, All-American-Badass wrote:

People are actually starting to wake up but despite obama's approval rating dipping below 60 % the republican party is still in a mess and voter apathy will probally give them a fair amount of ground in congress. so it will be a clusterfuck in 2011

its the perfect time for a 3rd party to make a huge push and perhaps actually win something, even if it is just a few seats in congress. The way things are set up in government makes it damn near impossible for a minor party to rise up. We the people should raise enough money for a 3rd candidate to run and do what we can to promote him/her/it.

now THAT would be historic, to get enough people nationwide together to tell the media to "go fuck themselves, there are more than 2 parties, even if you keep them off the air, we'll promote him ourselves!" and tell the government "We're tired of your shit!"

sadly, Americans today are apathetic so it would be very hard to accomplish, but I figure it would be worth a shot.

[RedSkunk]

Don't feel sad, Shrikey. What's that line about satisfying some people some of the time? Obama has exceeded my wildest expectations. Has anyone here stayed up with their parents and watched the news? Seen the Dow? The economy is not in death spiral, kamikaze mode anymore. There's a turn around in sight, somewhere. Just imagine McCain suspending his presidency so he could focus on the economy, or Bush bleary-eyed, sucking his thumb in Crawford. Everyone is underestimating the value of having adults back in the White House over just these past few months. Without a steady hand, things would - guaranteed - be much worse.

Meanwhile he's fulfilled (given political realities) numerous campaign promises (gitmo's time is near, end of fed raids on legal pot suppliers, IRAQ) and is actually successfully pushing through substantial healthcare reform. I never expected that to become a reality. What makes Obama successful as a campaigner is making him successful in office. He's using the bully pulpit. He's got popular support, and I love how it's making all the nut jobs squirm.

[Memorize]

At 7/25/09 12:18 PM, TheShrike wrote:

I love this thing you do. They should make a name for your logical fallacies. Oh. Wait. lol, not a surprise there.

They got a name for you too.