John Cage's 4:33 remix competition!

[Quarl]

First, read this then read this.

I know copyrighted songs or unoriginal work aren't allowed, but perhaps I should ask first whether or not any sound constitutes music. What do we upload to newgrounds? Are we uploading music or sound? Do we have any sort of "intellectual rights" over anything we produce if we don't legally credit the people that came before us to influence it in the first place? Intellectual property is just as subjective as the music we claim to own. What it comes down to is whether or not the rules of the institution your following dictate if something is ok. Then it comes down to how you as an individual choose to follow or break those rules.

So with that said I bring to you the first ever JOHN CAGE 4:33 REMIX COMPETITION!

© Cory C. Macniven Wednesday July 8th 2009

Special thanks goes out to Rig for being the first person to remix the original 4:33 here on newgrounds and giving me the idea for the competition in the first place. Special thanks goes out to my mom for making me which eventually led to this contest. Special thanks goes out to god/ the big bang for making everything else that eventually led up to this contest. Special thanks goes out to whatever created god/ the big bang. I'll be keeping track of anyone who wants to be a judge and any submissions I get. And to any mods looking to lock this thread on the basis of the old remix debate, how do you know this entire thread isn't just a sarcastic ploy to get people to talk about creative commons/ remixes/ copy rights/ ethics/ creativity in general?

May the best environment win :P

[nal1200]

Can we use samples from the original 4:33 in our remix?

lul

[sorohanro]

how can you prove that you're not using samples from the original work ?
If I catch someone using those, I'll ban them myself >:(((

[Quarl]

At 7/8/09 07:51 PM, nal1200 wrote: Can we use samples from the original 4:33 in our remix?

lul

Ask the John Cage trust! Or ask Tom Fulp. Ask rucklo? I wish you could ask John Cage because he's the only representative of John Cage that ever was and ever will be John Cage. According to the judge that resided over the case "how can you prove anything was stolen?"

[meneldil]

Can we use samples from the orchestrated version?

someone post the link, i'm too lazy to look for it

[statueofdiveo]

Is there a length rule?

[EmperorCharlemagne]

Forget you.

I'm going to remix Gyorgi Ligeti's 0'00" instead.

Who's with me!?

[Quarl]

At 7/8/09 08:44 PM, meneldil wrote: Can we use samples from the orchestrated version?

someone post the link, i'm too lazy to look for it

There never was an orchestrated version.

If your gonna post something thats irrelevant to the discussion or irrelevant to the competition it better be really funny.

At 7/8/09 09:13 PM, statueofdiveo wrote: Is there a length rule?

Perfect example. And to answer your question, no. The piece can be however many measures you want. Just make sure it has a beat I can dance to in my head.

[SymbolCymbal]

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  4:33 Remix Competition {child} by SymbolCymbal

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took me a while but i hope this wins the competition

[joshhunsaker]

At 7/8/09 09:39 PM, SymbolCymbal wrote: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/2 53707
took me a while but i hope this wins the competition

It was incredible and I left you a review.

[Quarl]

At 7/8/09 09:39 PM, SymbolCymbal wrote: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/2 53707
took me a while but i hope this wins the competition

Welp, now that we have a submission we better get a few more or else it will become an advert thread. Come on guys, let's hear some environment.

[vanguard182]

too hard

seriously though 4:33 is not silence, it's true ambience

for seriously

[Quarl]

At 7/8/09 10:30 PM, vanguard182 wrote: too hard

seriously

Record something! Do it in a mall or something. "4:33 as performed in a church" for shock value. It's only as hard as you make it.

[vanguard182]

At 7/8/09 10:42 PM, Quarl wrote:

Record something! Do it in a mall or something. "4:33 as performed in a church" for shock value. It's only as hard as you make it.

actually that's a very intriguing idea. i don't have a mic, but it's something i may want to explore in the future

[Quarl]

At 7/8/09 10:47 PM, vanguard182 wrote:

At 7/8/09 10:42 PM, Quarl wrote:

Record something! Do it in a mall or something. "4:33 as performed in a church" for shock value. It's only as hard as you make it.

actually that's a very intriguing idea. i don't have a mic, but it's something i may want to explore in the future

Like I said, it's only as hard as you make it. With that in mind, the original piece was about "the environment." 4:33 Remixes can be recordings of places if you have field recorders. Do it. I'm half serious about the comp. At the moment I'm testing the waters. If we get pieces, it will be curious how they'll be judged. If I get any takers on judging, I'll only be taking the people I feel will take the judging position seriously based on your stats/ posts. If all I get are lols, then great. We all benefited from a few extra laughs. If someone has something to say about anything, say it. John Cage, 4:33, contemporary standards, the evolution of music/ sound, any thing that seems relevant is open topic. Let's see what happens.

[loansindi]

Now that I think about it, I'm tempted to do this, as a performance piece as much as anything else. Get a buddy with a guitar, go to the mall or somewhere public, set up my computer and start recording, as we sit there and just don't play.

Interesting.

[sorohanro]

Orchestra version, live.
John Cage "4'33"
Chamber ensemble, also live.
GVSU New Music Ensemble
And the piano version.
John Cage - 4'33" by David Tudor

[Quarl]

At 7/9/09 05:35 AM, sorohanro wrote: Orchestra version, live.
John Cage "4'33"
Chamber ensemble, also live.
GVSU New Music Ensemble
And the piano version.
John Cage - 4'33" by David Tudor

ohhhhh, I thought he was referring to sound fonts and midi. I had no idea he meant those.

The amount of people that showed up to that first video was amazing. The coughing was a little strange though. I wasn't too happy about the static from the second video either. I guess it's a part of MY environment, but regardless I really wanted to hear what was in theirs...

The responses are really great though. Even after 50 years it continues to be a controversial piece. I love it when individuals claim to "know" what music is when they can't even realize that the person standing right next to them hears the world in a completely different way. To a deaf person, music is depressing. Or if it's bassy enough, music is a vibration you can feel. If your ignorant, music is only one genre and everything else sucks. There's a saying though that "ignorance is bliss." Perhaps the people that are ignorant have the right idea... but if we all remained ignorant out of the will to be happy who would create the music to be enjoyed? If there was no music, there would still be sound and arguably that's all music really is.

Discuss/ contribute to the comp. I'd rather not risk a lock over a thread that can be viewed as a +1 post count. This is serious business.

Judges?

[Khuskan]

At 7/8/09 09:39 PM, SymbolCymbal wrote: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/2 53707
took me a while but i hope this wins the competition

You've got it all wrong!

The point of 4:33 is that the sounds around the listener make the music, if you put any sounds in the remix at all, you're doing it wrong.

[Envy]

What if im in a steel metal cube that blocks all sound from the outside? Unless I cough I'm afraid there would be no music 8(

[SolusLunes]

At 7/9/09 11:19 AM, Envy wrote: What if im in a steel metal cube that blocks all sound from the outside? Unless I cough I'm afraid there would be no music 8(

Are you sure?

"In 1951, Cage visited the anechoic chamber at Harvard University. An anechoic chamber is a room designed in such a way that the walls, ceiling and floor absorb all sounds made in the room, rather than reflecting them as echoes. They are also externally sound-proofed. Cage entered the chamber expecting to hear silence, but he wrote later, "I heard two sounds, one high and one low. When I described them to the engineer in charge, he informed me that the high one was my nervous system in operation, the low one my blood in circulation."[12]

There has been some skepticism about the accuracy of the engineer's explanation, especially as to being able to hear one's own nervous system. A mild case of tinnitus might cause one to hear a small, high-pitched sound. It has been asserted by acousticians that, after a long time in such a quiet environment, air molecules can be heard bumping into one's eardrums in an elusive hiss (zero dB, or twenty micropascals). Whatever the truth of these explanations, Cage had gone to a place where he expected total silence, and yet heard sound. "Until I die there will be sounds. And they will continue following my death. One need not fear about the future of music."[13] The realisation as he saw it of the impossibility of silence led to the composition of 4'33"."

[Steven-Polley]

Uhmmm... yeah. I copyrighted the sawtooth waveform. None of you can use it.

[sorohanro]

I copyrighted tinnitus, now all of you should pay me money.

[Nechura]

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  4:33 Remix Comp by Nechura

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helo evry1. dis is my remix. i stoled it from the birdies that r outside my window. they say it okay i make song from their chirpy chirp noiz.

Don't worry, I didn't understand what I just said either.

[Envy]

At 7/9/09 04:19 PM, SolusLunes wrote:

At 7/9/09 11:19 AM, Envy wrote: What if im in a steel metal cube that blocks all sound from the outside? Unless I cough I'm afraid there would be no music 8(

Are you sure?

Wow. Thats actually incredibly interesting. I kind of want to try it now o.o

[FlamingFirebolt]

At 7/9/09 11:19 AM, Envy wrote: What if im in a steel metal cube that blocks all sound from the outside? Unless I cough I'm afraid there would be no music 8(

You cough music?

Intresting

[stargroup100]

I appreciate fellow musicians who can understand Cage's genius, but this competition is really pointless except for the fact that many new people will be introduced to this song. haha

[DanceNation]

I don't get it, "4'33" is a silent song, so how can we call this a "remix" because, there is nothing to remix, but... silence. Are we supposed to remix the background sounds, like we have silence, then someone quietly coughing? i don't really get it

[Quarl]

At 7/11/09 11:40 AM, DanceNation wrote: I don't get it, "4'33" is a silent song, so how can we call this a "remix" because, there is nothing to remix, but... silence. Are we supposed to remix the background sounds, like we have silence, then someone quietly coughing? i don't really get it

Did you even read the first post?

At 7/8/09 07:44 PM, Quarl wrote: how do you know this entire thread isn't just a sarcastic ploy to get people to talk about creative commons/ remixes/ copy rights/ ethics/ creativity in general?

Like I said, what do you know? When it comes right down to it, nothing. You don't know what I' m thinking, so you can't be an objective judge as towards whether or not this contest has any relevance. No one can be.

Tom's gonna have to write a new rule about objectivity/ subjectivity. He's dealing with a shit ton of artists...

[architecture]

you have no idea how long i have been waiting to do this?

is Pierre Schaffer and Stockhausen up for the challenge as well? You have no idea how much I want to do a dancehall reggae remix of Willams mix by John Cage.