RE: "Portal Defenders is shit"

[rolentogrenades]

I got this link from MindChamber's signature yesterday. Never noticed it before.

http://www.thebackalleys.com/forum/index .php?showtopic=6482&hl=Portal+defenders

These two comments from it struck me immediately...

:"It's pretty good for the internet I guess,"
:"It's better than mindchamber's stupid NG Rumble tho that was really gay"

For all I know, these guys could be friends of his and this could be an inside joke. But either way, it gets me to thinking how much I despise freeloader kids that take everything for granted. My sign up date may say 2007 or whenever, but I started using Flash in 1998 and Newgrounds in 2000. Like everyone else, I tried my hand at animating and at game programming. After being humbled by how long it takes to even make half-way decent single scene animations, I began to develop a respect for the people that really devote themselves to this shit.

Newgrounds is still the launching pad of all serious Flash game development as far as I'm concerned. You can't re-write history, they were first. And action scripting, as all developers know, isn't easy. It's as boring as PHP development. There's nothing to keep you going other than passion for this or copious amounts of caffeine. I guess what I'm trying to say is, fuck these bastards that complain about "free flash games" not meeting their degrading 3D standards. Now the guy in that post, I have no idea of his actual skills, but I have browsed a few of his threads and they all consist of unimportant rants about cheeseburgers and Wall-E. Not exactly high credentials when taking on a monster talent like MindChamber or Luis or anyone with half an idea of what Flash is SUPPOSED to accomplish.

Sorry for the rant, but hell son, it had to be said.

[bgraybr]

You're right, stupid brats don't realize how much effort it takes to make even a crappy game in flash.

[pyromaniac616]

This is a very good thought, OP, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I hate that some people think that they should all be playing free high quality games like Crysis online. Grr.

One anecdote I have, is that a friend of mine said "How come there are no good stratergy games on the internet?" To which I replied "What about Mastermind:WC? Warfare 1944? Warfare 1917?" and he just said "Yeah, but they don't count. I'm talking about good games, one that are 3D and shit like that."

To this I just walked off.

[KidneyThief]

Once you start animating and actually understand what a decent animation requires and how to animate, you really appreciate other peoples work a lot more. I find it easy to laugh off those kinds of comments though considering those kinds of people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

[rolentogrenades]

Yeah, I'd agree that Flash development is very painstaking. That is why when I'm anxious for someone to release a project, I don't get angry when they have delays. It's understandable. After an hour working in the Flash interface, it's hard to coordinate yourself to the car and drive down the street. Flash is energy-draining for some reason. And even with tablets and advantages, it's still draining. I sometimes can't even imagine how some of these frame by frame solo projects ever get done. But these guys have all my respect, even if their drawings are "amateurish." Animating, drawing, programming. Hell, one guy doing the job of three. It's mind boggling really. I'm glad collabs were created, because without them, I don't think a lot of artists would have been able to get out their vision.

At 7/1/09 03:54 PM, KidneyThief wrote: Once you start animating and actually understand what a decent animation requires and how to animate, you really appreciate other peoples work a lot more. I find it easy to laugh off those kinds of comments though considering those kinds of people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

[SoulMaster71]

Someone doesn't know about The Back Alleys. They're mostly elitists who hate anything popular just because it's popular, and that includes Portal Defenders and Newgrounds Rumble. A lot of them there, such as the founder and admin rtil, are so insanely awesome with Flash that they can get away with it (if you don't like this you're gay), and almost everyone there is at least some good with Flash, but there's a lot of spammers and ex-spammers in there (including a good share of their best: rtil himself was once in the Star Syndicate, same with f0d and I think Zekey's in there too), people who generally don't like the Newgrounds community or administration.

[SuspiciousPenguin]

I love portal defenders yeah alright it's pretty hard but that doesn't make it a bad game it's just a good challenge

[rolentogrenades]

I assumed it was something to that effect. And this isn't a personal jab at everyone on that site. I'd find it even more absurd for someone like rtil to bash a good Newgrounds artist/animator, since he's one himself. Just wouldn't add up. It was mostly in response to Billy's moronic tirade, but also to the dozens of blammers out there that can't wait to put down months of effort with a single click.

At 7/1/09 04:42 PM, SoulMaster71 wrote: Someone doesn't know about The Back Alleys. They're mostly elitists who hate anything popular just because it's popular, and that includes Portal Defenders and Newgrounds Rumble. A lot of them there, such as the founder and admin rtil, are so insanely awesome with Flash that they can get away with it (if you don't like this you're gay), and almost everyone there is at least some good with Flash, but there's a lot of spammers and ex-spammers in there (including a good share of their best: rtil himself was once in the Star Syndicate, same with f0d and I think Zekey's in there too), people who generally don't like the Newgrounds community or administration.

[ripoffhitman]

When I got the free trial for Adobe Macromedia Flash Prof, instead of learning to do this incredibly long and hardy form of art, I just got an appreciation for animation in general. People don't know just how long it takes.

It can takes hours to make a simple stick animation.

Games are a completly different thing, it takes so much time that people wouldn't even believe the number of hours it takes for 1 person to make a descent game for NG.

Appreciate what you got, an almost endless selection of pure hard work.

[PorkytheHedgehog]

But Portal Defenders is pretty bad.

Sorry, Luis.

[LDAF]

At 7/1/09 05:13 PM, PorkytheHedgehog wrote: But Portal Defenders is pretty bad.

Sorry, Luis.

Nah, it's just the difficulty that gets people angry. But like everyone is saying, they have no idea how much effort it takes to make flash games. Didn't NG Rumble take 2 years to make? That's the same time a console game would take to make!!

[PorkytheHedgehog]

At 7/1/09 05:22 PM, LDAF wrote: Nah, it's just the difficulty that gets people angry. But like everyone is saying, they have no idea how much effort it takes to make flash games. Didn't NG Rumble take 2 years to make? That's the same time a console game would take to make!!

The difficulty is created due to the problems with the game.

[bgraybr]

At 7/1/09 05:24 PM, PorkytheHedgehog wrote: The difficulty is created due to the problems with the game.

Your only submission is a screen capture of a game you played...

[PorkytheHedgehog]

At 7/1/09 05:28 PM, bgraybr wrote: Your only submission is a screen capture of a game you played...

I never said I was any fucking genuis in flash. I can animate simple things and program simple games but that's it.

[HandsomePete]

It's the launch pad for other games, in that people come from other professional sites to Newgrounds, because it has higher traffic and because it lets you make money from ads, and they spam up the portal with their 092908-95784-984-4405ewr=234dfljvsdkqeg-
349-965-2345 games every day. And then they always pass, no matter how shitty or unoriginal they are. It's funny how many people bitch about Spam crews, when these buttknockers do the exact same thing, without the charm or subtle wit.

[zonination]

I'm kind of a newbie here, so bear with me. I've been around Newgrounds for a while, but I've only recently registered and gotten involved a bit.

I've never done flash before, and it's really hard to say I know how it's made. But I know that it's art, and all art takes time (unless you're a God like Bob Ross).

My point is that even when I blam, I keep in mind the amount of work that someone must have put into it. I have high standards, but being a douche bag about it is not my priority when I lay down my reasoning, and that asshat who posted in the forums can learn a thing or two about it.

This is really just another example of how people's obliviousness can piss off a community that's based around an arcane type of knowledge.

[RandomExploit]

They're basically saying "I CAN DO SOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTUR TAN DAT DAWG LOLOLOLOLLLOLOL"

I'd like to see those retards try.

[rolentogrenades]

Yeah, I don't get involved in any of the secret handshake circle jerks that go on all over the internet. In any culture you'll have to adapt to that culture's rules or be ostracized forevermore. Life is too short for that and is one of the main reasons I like Newgrounds. You've got a melting pot of styles here, so there's something for everyone.

Like Pete mentioned, the rating system isn't without its flaws and there's probably a ton of disingenuous flash that should be shipped to the graveyard. But even despite that, I still see a lot of promising young blood doing what the previous generations of NG users did . Getting their shit out there instead of dreaming about it. Newgrounds still makes that possible in a very unique way. So I'll never really agree with the opinions of the people who have sites that leech off of this one in the first place, but somehow feel justified in casting stones after they've made a name here. Some of it is in good fun, fair enough. But you know who I'm referring to and deep down, you loathe them too.

At 7/1/09 05:34 PM, zonination wrote: I'm kind of a newbie here, so bear with me. I've been around Newgrounds for a while, but I've only recently registered and gotten involved a bit.

I've never done flash before, and it's really hard to say I know how it's made. But I know that it's art, and all art takes time (unless you're a God like Bob Ross).

My point is that even when I blam, I keep in mind the amount of work that someone must have put into it. I have high standards, but being a douche bag about it is not my priority when I lay down my reasoning, and that asshat who posted in the forums can learn a thing or two about it.

This is really just another example of how people's obliviousness can piss off a community that's based around an arcane type of knowledge.

[Luis]

this should be in the thread devoted to that game, but considering people are actually putting thought into their posts i guess i wont lock it up.

I think opinions on how bad or good the game are are perfectly valid. As an animator/flash game developer you develop a skin in taking all kinds of criticism, (even the shallow ones)
So i actually think its fine that theres people who find it to be shit. Making games is like this never ending puzzle of trying to figure out how to appeal to a wide range of players, be it hardcore enthusiasts to very casual gamers, and everything in between. So even when you get the leg up on one spectrum you inevitably begin irritating another.

You also have to just make games kinda expecting for most people to not know the amount of work/love that goes into it so it makes no sense for me to get bent out of shape about it. In the end, people see the end product and not the process it took to get there or the neverending string of failed ideas to get to that point. They shouldnt need to consider that anyway, its better to get a harsh sobering review that your game needs work than have a review thats giving you a pitty fuck just cause they know you worked hard etc.

In the end, you just filter the reviews in your brain, you whipe the ones you cant learn anything from off the table and you keep ones that were negative that you can apply action to and you keep the ones that provide reinforcement of things that worked well that you should keep in the next go round.

[bagle]

Portal defenders is a smooth, fun, well put-together game. The graphics and artwork were very clean and neat looking. The mechanics were very loose and fun to play with and discover new techniques and how to manipulate the game itself and really take control as each individual character. The background was always the same which got some what repetitive and bland, but you were mostly too focused in the actual game play to care that much.

Each enemy had its own technique and strategy to defeat them and were each fun to play. The achievements were addicting to get and a really good idea, considering it kept you playing. The music was superb but also got annoying at some points, it was just a loop and also got some what repetitive. Overall the game was enjoyable, with a nice touch of strategy.

That's my opinion on the game, although it sounded more like a review. Oh well, those are my thoughts.

[Luis]

locking this up. Future feedback can goto the original multi-page PD thread