Overpopulation and peak oil.

[butsbutsbutsbutsbuts]

Inevitably we will run out of fossil fuels and population will reach the earth's carrying capacity. What will the world be like then? What standard of living could the ordinary person expect? Humanity will probably be spending 10000s of years like this after all, it doesn't look like we're going to discover cold fusion and start colonizing other worlds.

[Der-Lowe]

At 6/28/09 05:18 PM, butsbutsbutsbutsbuts wrote: Inevitably we will run out of fossil fuels and population will reach the earth's carrying capacity. What will the world be like then?

Oil will cost a shitload of money, and people will substitute it for other fuels (bio fuels, solar, or whatever the technology allows at the time) or simply walk/cycle. That would mean that transportation will be quite expensive: trade will suffer, there will be an inversion in the globalization process: smaller firms, less concentration. Food, if it is used as fuel, will be a lot more expensive as well, throwing billions into poverty.

What standard of living could the ordinary person expect?

what's ordinary? Me and you chatting over teh interwebs? You living in your 1st world country? Meh.
Africa will be (more) screwed. Every single economy will enter a stagflation, inflation + recession. Incentives to develop newer technologies will be HUGE, though, so expect every single tech company develop it. It'll probably come from the US, so those companies will make a lot of money, at least in the US, since the 3rd world will ignore the patent. Income distribution will suffer since there will be a small group of winners and a large majority of losers. Expect political distress and more government intervention in the economy, ie, the return of the Welfare State, 90% tax rates to rich people.

Humanity will probably be spending 10000s of years like this after all, it doesn't look like we're going to discover cold fusion and start colonizing other worlds.

Do not underestimate the power of the price system.

[KidneyThief]

In my personal opinion, I think it would make more sense to start tunneling underground and create residential districts there as opposed to flying out into outer space and living in zero G and a boring (albeit a visually stunning) environment. Underground we could harness geothermal energy (we wouldn't have to rely on oil for energy), we might have to worry about collapsing tunnels or other structures, but it would be like a new form of natural disaster. This is considering that underground we wouldn't be effected by tornadoes and hurricanes an such. Although on that note earthquakes would be a lot more dangerous....... just a thought.

[spikedude101]

At 6/28/09 06:06 PM, KidneyThief wrote: In my personal opinion, I think it would make more sense to start tunneling underground and create residential districts there as opposed to flying out into outer space and living in zero G and a boring (albeit a visually stunning) environment. Underground we could harness geothermal energy (we wouldn't have to rely on oil for energy), we might have to worry about collapsing tunnels or other structures, but it would be like a new form of natural disaster. This is considering that underground we wouldn't be effected by tornadoes and hurricanes an such. Although on that note earthquakes would be a lot more dangerous....... just a thought.

At first this seems like a good idea, but when you get right down to it, flying out into space and living in a space station would be safer than tunneling underground due to the fact that earthquakes, collapsing tunnels (plus it's visually boring :P), but then again in space if something goes wrong everyone would be sucked into the vaccum of space.

[butsbutsbutsbutsbuts]

sorry i didn't reply, I had to go and in fact I have to go again in like a minute xD

I will provide you with an intellectually stimulating debate soon

brbness..

[Ericho]

We'll just have to go back to religion giving us comfort. Ha ha.

[SolInvictus]

At 6/28/09 06:06 PM, KidneyThief wrote: Underground we could harness geothermal energy

or we could harness geothermal energy from the surface...

[butsbutsbutsbutsbuts]

At 6/28/09 05:47 PM, Der-Lowe wrote: Oil will cost a shitload of money, and people will substitute it for other fuels...

what's ordinary? Me and you chatting over teh interwebs? You living in your 1st world country? Meh.

Do not underestimate the power of the price system.

Some countries will control overpopulation so they can use their agriculture for biofuels and have a decent standard of living but more backwards countries will continue to breed unrestricted until all the land has to be used to feed people and next time there is a drought people starve. At this point the countries which are not overpopulated will either have to let immigrants in from these countries and become overpopulated themselves or say "F U, you brought this on yourselves, we don't owe you anything". Things could get ugly.
I don't see how the price system will work because we need oil to get into space and it will be extremely expensive like you say.

At 6/28/09 06:06 PM, KidneyThief wrote: In my personal opinion, I think it would make more sense to start tunneling underground and create residential districts there as opposed to flying out into outer space and living in zero G and a boring (albeit a visually stunning) environment....

I think people will live on earth but send people or robots underground, underwater or into space. If there is one technology that is advancing rapidly it is electronics, computers and software.

At 6/30/09 12:59 PM, HecticCircleCrap wrote: "I'm going solar, motherfucker" is my plan for when this happens.

You will have to live in a desert or something.

At 6/30/09 02:53 PM, Ericho wrote: We'll just have to go back to religion giving us comfort. Ha ha.

Probably the overpopulated areas will revert to a renaissance level of technology and there will be religious wars and crusades. Apart from the low standard of living those areas will be pretty awesome with crusades, ninjas and pirates and things.

[majormario]

Overpopulation needs to become the most important issue today. We are wasting valueable rescources on people and countries who don't lift a finger to help themselves. Lets use Africa for an example. You've seen all the comercials about the little kids in Africa right? How they are starving, how you should sponsor a kid to make them healthy? Well we need to forget about them. Let them rot in the piss-poor villages they created. Gee! Lets have tons of kids, then whine to the U.S.A about how we can't feed them!
Ever read the Shadow Children books? Well we need a population police like the one in the books. Either that or we should start droping bombs on the heavily populated areas like China, Africa, and India.

[All-American-Badass]

If that happens I'm getting a diesel truck and converting it into biodiesel.

[nehemiah135]

by the time we run out of oil we will have other ways of transportation and fuel. if we do not then im sure it'll get done as soon as possible. as for over population by that time we will make another planet/moon so that we can live on it. i forgot what this term is called. and maybe there will be oil on there but at that point we will probably use that only for materials that require it like plastic and oil will be hella cheap.

[SolInvictus]

given that we have food production surplus and mass waste, i don't see how population is the problem with the world.

[Ericho]

At 7/16/09 08:55 PM, nehemiah135 wrote:

I assume that with fuel with the end of oil, things like ethanol will simply become mandatory and scientists will focus every bit of their work on perfecting it so I have faith in them.

[butsbutsbutsbutsbuts]

At 7/11/09 03:56 PM, majormario wrote: Either that or we should start droping bombs on the heavily populated areas like China, Africa, and India.

Everyone will have nukes by that time, countries with population controls will probably just not allow immigration from countries without them.

At 7/11/09 04:32 PM, RelicKylias wrote: Obliviously we shouldn't start executing people.

I don't think it will get to that point, more likely the ppp per capita across the globe will slowly decrease and one by one countries will implement population controls and shut their borders to end the encroaching poverty.

At 7/11/09 11:30 PM, All-American-Badass wrote: If that happens I'm getting a diesel truck and converting it into biodiesel.

Biodiesel is a lot more expensive, you probably won't be able to afford to run it unless you do something economically productive with it.

At 7/16/09 08:55 PM, nehemiah135 wrote: by the time we run out of oil we will have other ways of transportation and fuel.

There is helium-3 on the moon and uranium but no oil because no trees or plankton have grown on the moon.

At 7/17/09 01:14 AM, SolInvictus wrote: given that we have food production surplus and mass waste, i don't see how population is the problem with the world.

Population can't grow forever so overpopulation will happen eventually. The countries that are starving now are regionally overpopulated and depend on foreign imports even though they have nothing to trade in return, yet their populations continue to grow. That's not sensible, either we wait until we're overpopulated and can't give food to them anymore or we stop doing so now so they learn not to have kids they can't support.

At 7/16/09 08:55 PM, nehemiah135 wrote:

I assume that with fuel with the end of oil, things like ethanol will simply become mandatory and scientists will focus every bit of their work on perfecting it so I have faith in them.

Ethanol comes from sugar cane and corn, we will have to face a choice between a huge population where everyone lives like medieval peasants or a low population where people can afford to use agriculture to fuel their cars and enjoy a high standard of living.

[Ericho]

At 7/17/09 11:15 AM, Ericho wrote: I assume that with fuel with the end of oil, things like ethanol will simply become mandatory and scientists will focus every bit of their work on perfecting it so I have faith in them.

I just found out that ethanol uses a lot of water that could be wasted. Silly me.

[SlayerX3]

suddenly NUKES every where