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I read some of the replies which try to make good of buddhism. Several problems with buddhism-

1. You cannot discipline your mind to the point of stopping desire. In order to reach nirvana you have to stop desire and get rid of false notions of self (annata doctrine). Desire is physically forced upon you. Unless you remove Dopamine and Serotonin and the Mesolimbic and Striatum regions of your brain, your gonna desire something.

2. The buddha taught that the self does not exist. We are 5 senses and we have a mind. All of these change, therefore we cannot accurately claim identity or "I". However, our identity is our mental concept of identify with our body. Yes our body changes. But our concept of identifying with our body, our one brain, never goes away until death.

3. With no permanent self, there is no reason to even attempt to reach nirvana. Why? Because you will automatically reach nirvana when you die because your "I" or ego will never be reborn into another fetus. Orthodox buddhism denies a soul. It teaches the annata doctrine (no-self doctrine).

4. The buddha taught his philosophy but at the same time claimed that you should reject it if it does not apply to your logic. The problem is that he basically claims and hints around in texts that those who do not apply to his doctrines are ignorant and will suffer in their next rebirth again and again.

5. Karma is superstitious and stupid. The reason why buddhists act "moral" is to avoid bad karma.

6. Buddhists are really selfish (which goes against buddhism). First of all, they act good in order to earn good Karma for themselves. Second, they try to help others out in order to fit the role of a bodhistiva (someone who delays their enlightenment to help others which increases your own chance of attaining nirvana in the future.) Buddhist monks are likely not aware they are selfish and repress all this in their mind.

If you are a western buddhist you need to wake up. The reason why westerners drop out of buddhism so much is because they were not brainwashed with these ridiculous doctrines at a young age. Thus, they have common sense. Theres no reason to join buddhism to live a moderate life (something good buddhists dont do. they have their identity torn apart). It is not because easterners are superior.

At 6/27/09 10:27 AM, lVlad wrote:

My Criticism of Buddhism-

1.

2.

3.

4.

It sounds to me like you just can't handle it.

At least there isn't any such thing as fundamentalist/radical Buddhists who kill and terrorise other societies. This is why I respect their religion, even if it may be hypocritical. It is a valid religion of which I have no right to dismiss.

I think buddism is a cool religion. I like the idea thats its passive and everything. Unlike some other religions were if they dont agree with each other they just strap a bomb to their chest and blow each other up.

At 6/29/09 10:21 AM, JarrodK wrote: At least there isn't any such thing as fundamentalist/radical Buddhists who kill and terrorise other societies. This is why I respect their religion, even if it may be hypocritical. It is a valid religion of which I have no right to dismiss.

There isn't???

http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/ne ws/exec/view.cgi/1/1557

At 6/29/09 10:11 AM, lVlad wrote:

1. You cannot discipline your mind to the point of stopping desire. In order to reach nirvana you have to stop desire and get rid of false notions of self (annata doctrine). Desire is physically forced upon you. Unless you remove Dopamine and Serotonin and the Mesolimbic and Striatum regions of your brain, your gonna desire something.

Again, you confuse "wants" with survival needs. Desiring water when your thirsty or food when hungry doesn't go against Buddhism, it's common sense. You can discipline your mind to stop wanting crap you don't really need, which is what it's all about.

2. The buddha taught that the self does not exist. We are 5 senses and we have a mind. All of these change, therefore we cannot accurately claim identity or "I".

And? Psychologists today actually agree with this precept of Buddhism because it's true. We don't really know, even today, where exactly the "self" or "I" is.

However, our identity is our mental concept of identify with our body.

It's a concept we MADE UP ourselves.

Yes our body changes. But our concept of identifying with our body, our one brain, never goes away until death.

Yes.

3. With no permanent self, there is no reason to even attempt to reach nirvana. Why? Because you will automatically reach nirvana when you die because your "I" or ego will never be reborn into another fetus. Orthodox buddhism denies a soul. It teaches the annata doctrine (no-self doctrine).

Read this: as you're confused on what the annata doctrine actually means. From the Wiki:

"The anatta doctrine is not a kind of materialism. Buddhism does not deny the existence of "immaterial" entities, and it (at least traditionally) distinguishes physical states from mental states. Thus, the conventional translation of anatta as "no-soul" can be confusing. If the word "soul" simply refers to an incorporeal component in living things that can continue after death, then Buddhism does not deny the existence of the soul. Instead, Buddhism denies the existence of a permanent entity that remains constant behind the changing corporeal and incorporeal components of a living being."

4. The buddha taught his philosophy but at the same time claimed that you should reject it if it does not apply to your logic. The problem is that he basically claims and hints around in texts that those who do not apply to his doctrines are ignorant and will suffer in their next rebirth again and again.

If they do not believe in his doctrine, then they will not suffer.

5. Karma is superstitious and stupid. The reason why buddhists act "moral" is to avoid bad karma.

Actually, Karma makes a Hell of a lot more sense than anything else I've come across. It seems perfectly rational and logical that what you put out into the world, you'll eventually get it back.

6. Buddhists are really selfish (which goes against buddhism). First of all, they act good in order to earn good Karma for themselves.

And you act good because you want to avoid feeling guilty and to aid survival. Difference? NONE.

Second, they try to help others out in order to fit the role of a bodhistiva (someone who delays their enlightenment to help others which increases your own chance of attaining nirvana in the future.)

Your definition of selfishness here is baffling as well as frightening.

Buddhist monks are likely not aware they are selfish and repress all this in their mind.

You jump from regular Buddhists to Buddhist monks, two entirely different classes of Buddhists. Buddhist monks don't "repress" their selfishness in their minds, they attempt to overcome it.

If you are a western buddhist you need to wake up. The reason why westerners drop out of buddhism so much is because they were not brainwashed with these ridiculous doctrines at a young age.

They drop out? Evidence please, with charts and graphs showing the Buddhist population in this country, the United States of America.

Thus, they have common sense.

What?

Theres no reason to join buddhism to live a moderate life (something good buddhists dont do. they have their identity torn apart).

But you can join Buddhism and live a moderate life. It's MODERATION that is key.

It is not because easterners are superior.

Oh my God, what?

Hows is that any different from nuns not being able to have sex? All religions make you sacrifice things.

At 6/29/09 10:11 AM, lVlad wrote: I read some of the replies which try to make good of buddhism. Several problems with buddhism-

1. You cannot discipline your mind to the point of stopping desire. In order to reach nirvana you have to stop desire and get rid of false notions of self (annata doctrine). Desire is physically forced upon you. Unless you remove Dopamine and Serotonin and the Mesolimbic and Striatum regions of your brain, your gonna desire something.

You can't, But others can, Your soul controls your body though your mind, thus you control the mind, and you should be able to balance it.

2. The buddha taught that the self does not exist. We are 5 senses and we have a mind. All of these change, therefore we cannot accurately claim identity or "I". However, our identity is our mental concept of identify with our body. Yes our body changes. But our concept of identifying with our body, our one brain, never goes away until death.

The psychical body does exist, but you misinterpreted it, life is within the soul, not body and the individual soul doesn't exist, we are all connected kind of like radios are, thus what ever the radio plays doesn't just exist in that radio, It's kind of hard to explain

3. With no permanent self, there is no reason to even attempt to reach nirvana. Why? Because you will automatically reach nirvana when you die because your "I" or ego will never be reborn into another fetus. Orthodox buddhism denies a soul. It teaches the annata doctrine (no-self doctrine).

Again you misinterpret, your soul isn't perfect, but the "kingdom of god" or "higher self" or "Logos"
exist within your soul, your ultimate goal is to reconnect with god, and execute the ego that keeps you from having true wisdom.

4. The buddha taught his philosophy but at the same time claimed that you should reject it if it does not apply to your logic. The problem is that he basically claims and hints around in texts that those who do not apply to his doctrines are ignorant and will suffer in their next rebirth again and again.

He probably meant if this don't make sense to you, your misinterpreting it, or you don't have the willpower to defeat your "Inner Demons", or the "Devil" within you this life time.

5. Karma is superstitious and stupid. The reason why buddhists act "moral" is to avoid bad karma.

That is your personal opinion, just because you don't believe it exist, doesn't mean it does not exist

6. Buddhists are really selfish First of all, they act good in order to earn good Karma for themselves.

How could you say what their motives are? are you god? thinking like this has dragged the civilizations on this planet down for Many years

Second, they try to help others out in order to fit the role of a bodhistiva (someone who delays their enlightenment to help others which increases your own chance of attaining nirvana in the future.)

How Does helping others make them selfish? They get closer to their "Inner light" while other do, everyone wins.

Buddhist monks are likely not aware they are selfish and repress all this in their mind.

you have a long ways to go, you confuse yourself with a god, that many times in the past is proven deadly.

If you are a western buddhist you need to wake up. The reason why westerners drop out of buddhism so much is because they were not brainwashed with these ridiculous doctrines at a young age. Thus, they have common sense. Theres no reason to join buddhism to live a moderate life (something good buddhists dont do. they have their identity torn apart). It is not because easterners are superior.

You my friend need to wake up, before taking needles out of others eyes, take them out of yours.

:At 6/29/09 01:02 PM, I-RULE-OVER-ALL wrote:

stuff

By the way, I'm a Christian Gnostic, It is VERY Similar to Buddhism, just different names for stuff, The church today Doesn't represent Christ True teachings, they watered it down for it to be acceptable to more people, thus the Church has more political power.

Gnosticism is VERY similar to Buddhism, some things just have different names.

At 6/27/09 10:27 AM, lVlad wrote: 1. Buddhism tries to abolish desires. The problem is that this goal is impossible. You cant do it! Why? Our brains our hardwired to desire things because we have a chemical called dopamine in our brain which activates pleasure and craving PHYSICAL REGIONS in our brain. Unless you surgically remove these regions and that chemical,

Right but what you don't understand about Buddhism is that it redefines the parameters of desire. The preliminary for dopamine to be given out varies from person to person. A depressed person receives significantly less dopamine, the main basis of antidepressants is to increase the level of dopamine absorbed by the brain. A man living in a small shack in Africa does not crave as much as me or you. It is all subsequent to who you are. Buddhists can supress their cravings to the point where they are virtually non-existent. How? Through tireless training in monasteries.

2. Buddhism is a cult. If your a real buddhist, you realize the ultimate goal is to achieve nirvana. Even unconciously, you may desire this, thus your mindfucking yourself to desire a state which is achieved with no desires. Your life is heavily controlled because you are told an invisible force called Karma will screw you over if you do anything outside of buddhist principles (8 folded path, 4 noble truths, if your a monk, woh shit you got alot of stuff to follow). So, there is a carrot dangling in front of you and you cant ever get to it and your mind is basically in a straight jacket.

By those standards every religion is a cult. And you don't realize that Buddhists don't desire MATERIAL THINGS. They live on bare necessities. Of course they desire Nirvana, but they are also patient and awaiting in their endeavor to achieve such a task While I might not agree with the religious aspects of Buddhism, I am interested with the levels that one who has practiced Buddhism can manipulate their mind. Did you remember when a Buddhist monk set himself on fire during a protest? That is because they wield this ungodly power to completely ignore all pain. There is even a yearly or so festival in which they insert sharp objects into their skin. The name alludes me though.

3. It wastes your life. If your only made of 6 senses in buddhism, then when you die, your senses are not going to travel over to a fetus. Your senses come from your brain and they die. Buddhists deny the soul, you cant be reborn with senses that come from your brain because your brain dies.

Everything is a waste of life. Might as well enjoy it while you can. I can criticize a religion but I can't criticize a religion that comes across as more of a lifestyle, and that's exactly what Buddhism is. A lifestyle with religious aspects.

4. The real explanation for buddhas enlightenment. If he did in fact achieve this state where he was overjoyous, it was the result of extreme stress on his brain. He was clearly enjoying this nirvana since he was dancing for days and days according to Theravada texts. The buddha wasnt really in his impossible state. He was delirious and he died soon after.

I'm sure that Buddha's story is complete bullshit. You couldn't survive without food and water for 2 weeks, let alone 20 years. Yet your explanation is also bullshit, as you fail to take this into account. It's just mythology, and nothing more than that.

At 6/29/09 01:10 PM, I-RULE-OVER-ALL wrote:

At 6/29/09 01:02 PM, I-RULE-OVER-ALL wrote:

stuff

By the way, I'm a Christian Gnostic,

Really? Me too! *high-fives*

I'm only going to start with your first point, which I assume is your major premise (i.e. desire is part of human nature, therefore we can't just eliminate it).

Firstly, any philosophy or worldview is not a blueprint of what the end result is. It is a lens by which we distill ourselves until we attain a level closer and closer to what we desire, with the aim of reducing the undesirable elements of the past.

Secondly, the argument from biological determinism in humans is weak. Yes, we do have our biological instincts, but we also have minds. The fact that we can restrain our desire and greed stands against the notion of purely delving into this "because of my genes" mentality.

For example, say a hot woman goes by. Biological determinism says that an average heterosexual man will get a chubby looking at her. That is biological fact. But this desire will not necessarily manifest itself as sex - he won't just go about raping her, because society practices restraint. Remember that enlightenment is not a function of raw strength, but a matter of willpower.

At 6/27/09 10:51 AM, lVlad wrote: Thats the bad part of buddhism. They tell you to just do little by little and in your next life you will be closer to nirvana. Its the stupid carrot on the stick with the donkey trick. Wake up people!

Their teaching the middle path, that you have to use moderation, how is that bad?

At 6/28/09 08:17 PM, lVlad wrote: th which I did mention is the same thing as the middle way. The 8 folded path is a way of living which is designed to quiet your mind and change your moral values. I am not against this but life is not as much fun with highs and lows. Also, it is extremely narrow minded to strictly follow the 8 folded path. The 8 folded path is combined with the 4 noble truths.

Eight fold path

I hope I remember this

Right mind
Right speech
Right effort
Right work
Right intent
Nope don't remember them all have to copypast
Right Action
Right concentration
Right view

So in which one contains the middle way ? None do, the middle way is to be used a a guide when walking this path, contrary to what you read that is what the middle path means to do so in moderation

The 4 noble truths employ a common cult tactic. They break down your identity.

Four noble truths simplified
There is suffering
Suffering is caused by attachment
there is a way to end the suffering
The eight fold path is that way

How does that break you down?

In orthodox buddhism, your self doesnt really exist. Your just a combination of senses, the annata doctrine.

Two problems- without a permanent self, your consciousness cannot be reborn

Well hears a problem you're only using one sect of Buddhism, it's like saying Christianity's BS because Latter Day Saints have a belief that doesn't makes sense to you. Also I was lead to believe the annanta doctrine states that your conciseness is not permanent because it changes it does continue existing but not as the same conciseness you had when you died.
(in essence it's the belief your soul is not a part of you its part of the world & constantly evolving)

your ego or "I" is always there from the time you are born. your mind changes but you always identify with this body.

I assume by ego/I you refer to ones sense of self that being said I still don't understand your' point.

At 6/28/09 08:24 PM, lVlad wrote:

At 6/28/09 08:19 PM, Ragnarokia wrote: You havent been a buddist just read some shit about it.

Thats as bad as the muslims saying that apostates were never true muslims. It appears all these western "buddhists" cannot keep their anger under control. Why? You need to be brainwashed from an early age for it to be completely effective. I am willing to debate over PM.

Uhm no if your raised in it your not brainwashed, brainwashing implies you eliminate the preexisting mind to build a new one if your young it's more accurately indoctrination. You are indoctrinated into certain beliefs regardless of the environment you're raised in this is simply do to the fact we're social creatures.

At 6/29/09 10:11 AM, lVlad wrote: I read some of the replies which try to make good of buddhism. Several problems with buddhism-

1. You cannot discipline your mind to the point of stopping desire. In order to reach nirvana you have to stop desire and get rid of false notions of self (annata doctrine). Desire is physically forced upon you. Unless you remove Dopamine and Serotonin and the Mesolimbic and Striatum regions of your brain, your gonna desire something.

Attachment is a better term & it refers ones attachments to the material world, you can train your mind to a degree to lessen these attachments. Really christianity teaches against materialism as well though to a lesser extent but I'm sure it's a common spiritual belief in most religions & many philosophies.

2. The buddha taught that the self does not exist. We are 5 senses and we have a mind. All of these change, therefore we cannot accurately claim identity or "I". However, our identity is our mental concept of identify with our body. Yes our body changes. But our concept of identifying with our body, our one brain, never goes away until death.

To my understanding (I may be wrong) the concept of no-self is in essence that there is no permanent self, rather one's self changes frequently yes we have but one body (per life?) but the body & mind change frequently that's why there is no self, it's in essence the answer to an old question "are you the same person you were 5 minutes ago?" the answer is always no you are constantly changing & thus you have no permanent self , also you forget that the mind extends beyond life

3. With no permanent self, there is no reason to even attempt to reach nirvana. Why? Because you will automatically reach nirvana when you die because your "I" or ego will never be reborn into another fetus. Orthodox buddhism denies a soul. It teaches the annata doctrine (no-self doctrine).

That would depend on how you define soul , if you allow a definition that would fit an ever changing consciousness then the budhist do believe in a soul.

4. The buddha taught his philosophy but at the same time claimed that you should reject it if it does not apply to your logic. The problem is that he basically claims and hints around in texts that those who do not apply to his doctrines are ignorant and will suffer in their next rebirth again and again.

Yes Gautama Buddha taught one should hold there own lamp, I can think of a number of reasons for doing so one being the possibility that the eightfold path is not the only path, & the texts don't hint it the cycle of rebirth if you fail to reach nirvana you'll be reborn & have to suffer. Also you keep referring to Buddha with out giving the name of the buddha which implies the first Gautama Buddha, My problem with this is that no accounts were written of Gautama Buddha for centuries after his death. Let allone by him as you seem to imply.

5. Karma is superstitious and stupid. The reason why buddhists act "moral" is to avoid bad karma.

Well if I told you the reason you act moral is because of the police, I think you'd take offense, for the most part people are moral by nature (also amoral by nature) also the whole reaching nirvana thing is another incentive even if it is superstitious. To be honest I liken this argument to saying "they only want to sell the cure for cancer to make money" who cares why they do it if there being moral their motivations aren't really the issue.

6. Buddhists are really selfish (which goes against buddhism). First of all, they act good in order to earn good Karma for themselves. Second, they try to help others out in order to fit the role of a bodhistiva (someone who delays their enlightenment to help others which increases your own chance of attaining nirvana in the future.) Buddhist monks are likely not aware they are selfish and repress all this in their mind.

Okay so doing good things & helping others is selfish now? Is it just because they follow a doctrine that states being unselfish is rewarded?

If you are a western buddhist you need to wake up. The reason why westerners drop out of buddhism so much is because they were not brainwashed with these ridiculous doctrines at a young age. Thus, they have common sense. Theres no reason to join buddhism to live a moderate life (something good buddhists dont do. they have their identity torn apart). It is not because easterners are superior.

You know I know someone who converted to Buddhism at 15 he's 29 still Buddhist, westerners probably drop out of Buddhism so much for the same reason we drop out of Christianity or any other religion so much, were not all to keen on following another's path, we all wish to hold our own lamps. Yes if were not indoctrinated into it we're more likely to drop out that's true for any religion or any intellectual or spiritual pursuit.

At 6/29/09 12:39 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 6/29/09 10:11 AM, lVlad wrote:

Again, you confuse "wants" with survival needs. Desiring water when your thirsty or food when hungry doesn't go against Buddhism, it's common sense. You can discipline your mind to stop wanting crap you don't really need, which is what it's all about.

I am assuming that you believe in science. We have an area of our brain called the frontal lobe. It is where we think about things. Our frontal lobe stores memories of our wants and also our needs. Dopamine releases into the pleasure regions which coincidentally also happen to be the craving regions of our brain (striatum for example). Dopamine is responsible for desiring wants and needs. Thats why people with severe depression who have lower levels of dopamine have trouble even getting the energy to go get some food. I understand buddhists try to selectively eliminate wants. The problem is that you really cant do this. And even if you were to lower the dopamine in your brain, you dopamangeric receptors would increase in sensitvity, causing you to crave things again and again (think antipsychotic medication for example).

And? Psychologists today actually agree with this precept of Buddhism because it's true. We don't really know, even today, where exactly the "self" or "I" is.

That is very misleading. First of all, if a permanent self does not exist in our life, then that would mean we would eventually stop identifying I, as thats a mental concept of ourselves. I dont care if you like it or not but "I" is our brain saying my body.

3. With no permanent self, there is no reason to even attempt to reach nirvana. Why? Because you will automatically reach nirvana when you die because your "I" or ego will never be reborn into another fetus. Orthodox buddhism denies a soul. It teaches the annata doctrine (no-self doctrine).

Read this: as you're confused on what the annata doctrine actually means. From the Wiki:

"The anatta doctrine is not a kind of materialism. Buddhism does not deny the existence of "immaterial" entities, and it (at least traditionally) distinguishes physical states from mental states. Thus, the conventional translation of anatta as "no-soul" can be confusing. If the word "soul" simply refers to an incorporeal component in living things that can continue after death, then Buddhism does not deny the existence of the soul. Instead, Buddhism denies the existence of a permanent entity that remains constant behind the changing corporeal and incorporeal components of a living being."

Actually, the annata doctrine teaches that your self does not exist. It acknowledges that we have a false concept and claims that this is really false. Zen western Buddhism on some site claimed it was like untieing a shoelace, getting rid of false concept of self. The oldest school of buddhism alive today, Theravada, denies the soul. Theravada is basically orthodox. A soul is considered a permanent self, therefore, you cant be buddhist and believe in one.

5. Karma is superstitious and stupid. The reason why buddhists act "moral" is to avoid bad karma.

Actually, Karma makes a Hell of a lot more sense than anything else I've come across. It seems perfectly rational and logical that what you put out into the world, you'll eventually get it back.

There is no invisible force that says oh you gave that kid a candy bar, well i am gonna make sure your left eyeball doesnt fall out like i was planning on making it.

Your definition of selfishness here is baffling as well as frightening.

Wake up! They try to "help" others (bodhistava) in order to really help themselves. They try to act good in front of karma to help themselves.

Buddhist monks are likely not aware they are selfish and repress all this in their mind.

You jump from regular Buddhists to Buddhist monks, two entirely different classes of Buddhists. Buddhist monks don't "repress" their selfishness in their minds, they attempt to overcome it.

Buddhism is really designed for monks. The best laymen can hope to do is get reborn again (oh wait, it wouldnt fucking matter because you have no self you wouldnt really be conscious in your next life).

One of the most idiotic ways rebirth was explained to me by a buddhist forum is that its like one candle lighting another and the original one being blown out. Hello, thats not the same candle/fire anymore.

At 6/28/09 08:19 PM, Ragnarokia wrote: You havent been a buddist just read some shit about it.

He doesn't want to be, and after reading his argument, I can see why!

But people have given up their desires before. You place too much faith on a misunderstanding of scientific knowledge (chemicals in the brain you understand little about), and it does not seem to me like you understand any of the Buddha's message.

I don't put much stock in its practices, but I don't think your reasons are all that valid.

Buddhism is just another way of traveling the path of life. Life isn't a road, its an open field. You can travel in any direction in that open field and you will never travel in the "wrong" one, its just about what you feel is important. Do we need to have "good" ways and "bad" ways to live? or can we not just accept what life is and understand that we ourselves must discover which direction we want to travel? Not even logic or virtue takeplace in all of this, for logic and virtue differ from person. What may seem logical to one person will seem illogical to another person or there might be several logical ways to accomplish a task.

One word: Nihilism.

At 6/29/09 05:37 PM, lVlad wrote:

At 6/29/09 12:39 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 6/29/09 10:11 AM, lVlad wrote:

I am assuming that you believe in science.

I do.

I understand buddhists try to selectively eliminate wants. The problem is that you really cant do this.

That's because material things are stuffed into our faces each and everyday, constantly. Of course it's very difficult, but it's not impossible.

And even if you were to lower the dopamine in your brain, you dopamangeric receptors would increase in sensitvity, causing you to crave things again and again (think antipsychotic medication for example).

So people can't choose to not eat a certain food they enjoy and every minute of every day they must dream of it and slobber at the thought of it? Or they can just block it out all together and find a more healthy snack. Same with eliminating desire; just decreasing your want for a nice piece of clothing doesn't translate to wanting it even more and you find a reasonable substitute, the layperson or monk decides to substitute this desire and craving with fruitful meditation or doing something else that is constructive.

That is very misleading. First of all, if a permanent self does not exist in our life, then that would mean we would eventually stop identifying I, as thats a mental concept of ourselves.

Why would we stop identifying "I" if Buddhists don't deny the existence of a permanent corporeal being?

I dont care if you like it or not but "I" is our brain saying my body.

I understand that, but solely because our brain says something doesn't mean it's true.

The oldest school of buddhism alive today, Theravada, denies the soul. Theravada is basically orthodox. A soul is considered a permanent self, therefore, you cant be buddhist and believe in one.

Buddhism may not believe in a permanent soul, but it does believe in a corporeal entity like I've pointed out. I think semantics are beginning to come into play.

There is no invisible force that says oh you gave that kid a candy bar, well i am gonna make sure your left eyeball doesnt fall out like i was planning on making it.

Karma isn't conscious, it just "is." Depending on how you look at it, Karma is very visible.

Wake up!

No need to talk to me like I'm some kind of brainwashed sheep, sir.

They try to "help" others (bodhistava) in order to really help themselves. They try to act good in front of karma to help themselves.

A bodhisatva is a person reincarnated in complete, unselfish compassion. In fact, Buddhists call Christ one.

Buddhism is really designed for monks.

Only in it's strictest sense.

The best laymen can hope to do is get reborn again (oh wait, it wouldnt fucking matter because you have no self you wouldnt really be conscious in your next life).

You're not supposed to be conscious of it because it would interfere with your current life, although it's possible to recall a past-life in hypnotic regression. Look up how they determine the next Dalai Lama, that should explain it.

One of the most idiotic ways rebirth was explained to me by a buddhist forum is that its like one candle lighting another and the original one being blown out. Hello, thats not the same candle/fire anymore.

It's the same concept.

fuck Christians, fuck Muslims, fuck Jews and most certainty fuck Buddhists. Its a religion its all bullshit, FACT. side why are you guys whining about religions? are you a Buddhist? No? then fucking stop trying to find ways to fight each other you sad bastards.

At 6/29/09 07:17 PM, MrPercie wrote: fuck Christians, fuck Muslims, fuck Jews and most certainty fuck Buddhists. Its a religion its all bullshit, FACT. side why are you guys whining about religions? are you a Buddhist? No? then fucking stop trying to find ways to fight each other you sad bastards.

Coming from the guy who just took a stance on this subject.

Yeah I was into Buddhism for a few years. Then I decided the idea of getting rid of all desire and suffering was kind of stupid. I don't mind desiring things, nor do I mind suffering too much. They make life more interesting and sometimes more enjoyable. So I've decided to Just Keep Livin. L-i-v-i-n. Thank you Matthew Mcconnahalastnamespelledsomewayhey.

I think you're taking certain things out of context and only pointing out some bad things.
I take aspects of the buddhist religion and apply it, but I don't follow it strictly.
Some of it is good advice.

At 6/29/09 07:19 PM, zero-gravity wrote:

Coming from the guy who just took a stance on this subject.

yes because I have seen to many people complain even though they have nothing to do with the subject and yet they reply to try and get the upper hand because of what a nerd they are

At 6/29/09 07:17 PM, MrPercie wrote: but I have a pretty good feeling that a bunch Newground assholes are gonna flame this

fuck Christians, fuck Muslims, fuck Jews and most certainty fuck Buddhists. Its a religion its all bullshit, FACT. side why are you guys whining about religions? are you a Buddhist? No? then fucking stop trying to find ways to fight each other you sad bastards.

Looks like your prediction came true. Also good job for not contributing anything to the thread except bad grammar.

At 6/29/09 07:11 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

So people can't choose to not eat a certain food they enjoy and every minute of every day they must dream of it and slobber at the thought of it? Or they can just block it out all together and find a more healthy snack. Same with eliminating desire; just decreasing your want for a nice piece of clothing doesn't translate to wanting it even more and you find a reasonable substitute, the layperson or monk decides to substitute this desire and craving with fruitful meditation or doing something else that is constructive.

thats not what im saying at all. im saying that you cannot eliminate all of your material desires, something which is needed to reach nirvana. and...buddhists will say oh just wait until your next life...they keep delaying the fact it wont happen

At 6/29/09 12:33 PM, lVlad wrote: There isn't???

touché

So, you're NGman's successor?

My maths teacher is a buddhist. He says that all he ever does to do with the faith is meditate for about 15mins every week. He's not a perticularly religous person I guess...

just saying that youve read a bunch of shit about buddhism isnt going to make anyone think your points are any more valid

I see your facts, but you are way too critical. The trained mind is possible of anything really. Ever seen the pictures of the rbelling Buddhist monks who set fire to themselves? They just sat down meditating as they burned to death. True, buddhism may not be the real religion, but what's to say it isn't? Christianity may or may not be, as well as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, it's all very much the same. The idea of Buddhism, is to be at peace. One may crave something at some point, but they may be forgiven. Like sinning in any of the Abrahamic religions, they can be forgiven.