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And you have exactly ZERO proof God does not exist. You keep saying that a belief in a higher power is a lie and completely false but you have no proof of that to begin with. And to me there is a common sense to believing in God. Look around you! This universe is so immense and complex, and us Humans are so biologically perfected(I'm not talking about our behaviors, I'm talking about how our body adapts and evolves to an environment.), that I find it hard to believe that all of this could of been created by nothing. There has to be a higher intelligence to have created all of this because nothing can't create something.

And with your CONSTANT use of the Garden of Eden analogy, you have to look at the underlying elements of the story to actually understand it. Satan managed to convince Eve to take the apple and give it to her husband by saying "you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad". Adam and Eve were in a PARADISE. And Satan introduced bad/evil to them. Before that, there was no good and evil. Because you can't call something good if there isn't an evil opposite of the action. God made them leave because they now knew what evil was and would destroy there paradise. Also the Tree of Knowledge had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Scientific Knowledge(why would God not want us to understand his creation?) It was the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The story's basic lesson is: God created Man and Satan gave them evil.

First off. "God" didn't allow humans to eat from the tree of knowledge because he/she feared that humans would become too uncontrollable. But to keep humans under control he sacrificed human freedom which, to me, is the greatest liberty we can hold. Hell, even the US constitution allows the right to freedom of speech, (doesn't mean that it happens but still) and many people agree that to take away freedom of expression, thought and speech is the greatest crime you can enforce onto a human being. So is this humanity's way of rebelling against what many people believe to be the greatest law in all of human history?
Second point: With so many religions crying for attention. Which one is noticed more? All religions will claim to have the closest affinity with their perception of "God" (or "Gods" as the case may be) but surely there can't be a single being (omnipotent or not) listening to more than 100 billion people every day! I'm sure many people will claim that he/she can listen because he/she is omnipotent and just can but surely that's a very childish argument.
Third Ponit: Science is based on an ever evolving knowledge of fact and truth that is right in front of us and provable. Religion is a belief and faith based system where everyone dues it out to see who has the best leader who they have never directly received orders from. The only laws of "God" are told from 2nd or even 3rd hand viewpoints and, like a game of Chinese whispers, these laws can get corrupted to meet the teller's personal needs.

At 6/25/09 03:52 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

1. Keep people ignorant.
Dumbasses are easier to control and since they ignore facts about the world that are even easier to control because they will eat every bullshit you say.

2. It's not me that wants it it is GOD, would you go against GOD ?
The best way to make people do immoral things is to convince them it is in fact good.

So being religious makes you a dumbass? Allow me to state, I am a highly religious person, and my faith supports most of scientific fact. E.G. the big bang theory of creation, explained by Wicca as the one shattering itself to become the many, in an unimaginable explosion, whose job it is to grow and to learn and to achieve the glory of the one (The big crunch maybe?), i'm just saying you can't say that being religious makes people dumbasses.

however, to your second point, Extremists irritate me as well-Not everyone who is religious is an extremist.

At 7/1/09 06:46 PM, onescarydude wrote:

At 6/25/09 03:52 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

1. Keep people ignorant.
Dumbasses are easier to control and since they ignore facts about the world that are even easier to control because they will eat every bullshit you say.

2. It's not me that wants it it is GOD, would you go against GOD ?
The best way to make people do immoral things is to convince them it is in fact good.

So being religious makes you a dumbass? Allow me to state, I am a highly religious person, and my faith supports most of scientific fact. E.G. the big bang theory of creation, explained by Wicca as the one shattering itself to become the many, in an unimaginable explosion, whose job it is to grow and to learn and to achieve the glory of the one (The big crunch maybe?), i'm just saying you can't say that being religious makes people dumbasses.

however, to your second point, Extremists irritate me as well-Not everyone who is religious is an extremist.

I am sorry if I offend you, but would what you just said be attaching your god theory at the end of a scientific theory? That would yield no proof for any sort of divinity because the big bang was never said to be triggered by an omnipotent for, nor does it mention in the Bible that god triggered any sort of big bang. you would be assuming at best.

At 7/1/09 07:27 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote:

At 7/1/09 06:46 PM, onescarydude wrote:

So being religious makes you a dumbass? Allow me to state, I am a highly religious person, and my faith supports most of scientific fact. E.G. the big bang theory of creation, explained by Wicca as the one shattering itself to become the many, in an unimaginable explosion, whose job it is to grow and to learn and to achieve the glory of the one (The big crunch maybe?), i'm just saying you can't say that being religious makes people dumbasses.

however, to your second point, Extremists irritate me as well-Not everyone who is religious is an extremist.

I am sorry if I offend you, but would what you just said be attaching your god theory at the end of a scientific theory? That would yield no proof for any sort of divinity because the big bang was never said to be triggered by an omnipotent for, nor does it mention in the Bible that god triggered any sort of big bang. you would be assuming at best.

Yes I am assuming, in a way. As i've said i'm a religious person. That the big bang was created by a singular being dividing itself is simply my belief, and it just makes sense in my mind. I understand that other people will think "My God (or not) that's a pile of crap," and I respect that. What i'm saying is that being religious doesn't always make you a dumbass. Any also, your bible argument is irrelevant. I'm a WICCAN, not a Christian. It doesn't mention my belief in any of the major holy books to the best of my knowledge.
You are right in that I am attaching my theory of divine beings, emphasis on the plural, to the end of a scientific argument, but i'm not doing it to try and prove that my religion is the correct one, because for all I know, it could all be tha aforementioned pile of crap, but I can backup my religion with science, and I can backup science with my religion. I don't think that makes me a dumbarse. It doesn't make my religion right, but it's what I believe, and I, and you, and everyone else reading this thread, or reading a newspaper, or drinking a coffee or watching TV is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. Unforunately, that's not always a good thing.

At 7/1/09 06:46 PM, onescarydude wrote:

So being religious makes you a dumbass?

It's the other way around actually. Stupid people are more likely to believe in magical people in the sky.

Allow me to state, I am a highly religious person, and my faith supports most of scientific fact. E.G. the big bang theory of creation,

Okay...

explained by Wicca

Who?

as the one shattering itself to become the many, in an unimaginable explosion, whose job it is to grow and to learn and to achieve the glory of the one (The big crunch maybe?), i'm just saying you can't say that being religious makes people dumbasses.

No, but it sure does try to KEEP them being dumbasses, and yes, sometimes if someone starts to really believe in this stupid shit he could make stupid decisions based on a stupid book instead of JUDGEMENT.

Not everyone who is religious is an extremist.

No shit sherlock.

2. You cant prove it
By material science you cant. Religion claims to be beyond it. Thus, its okay. However, material science can be used to point out probabilities and abstract ideas are healthy for the mind and only serve to enhance cognition.

Remember kids, evolution is only a theory!

Why are we worrying about who believes in what? Who CARES if somebody believes in Christianity and someone believes in Buddhism? It doesn't make a fucking difference, except it does happen to separate the population of the world more than should be needed.

Look, I don't believe in the things about "Honor your father" and " Don't do upon them what you don't want upon you" and all that other stuff. I don't believe that there is some being up there who created us from two human beings *which, I have to point out, is pretty gross because who were the children supposed to mate with? Monkeys?* There's no proof that this "God" even exist, so why should we bother praying and worshiping him?

But I do believe that there is some force up there that created us all, or else how could we even cease to exist? Something had to had started the Big Bang when there was nothing there before, but I don't think it was "the almighty God" that most people waste three hours every Sunday worshiping.

Look, most people have different opinions and some people might start back-talking me for creating this post, but I have to wonder WHY we're wasting our time complaining about who believes in what. What we SHOULD be worrying about is whether North Korea is going to blow us up or not.

At 7/1/09 06:46 PM, onescarydude wrote: So being religious makes you a dumbass?

Pretty much yeah.

Allow me to state, I am a highly religious person, and my faith

Woah! Faith? Now ask again being Religious makes you a dumbass.

supports most of scientific fact. E.G. the big bang theory of creation, explained by Wicca as the one shattering itself to become the many, in an unimaginable explosion, whose job it is to grow and to learn and to achieve the glory of the one (The big crunch maybe?), i'm just saying you can't say that being religious makes people dumbasses.

The linky says I can.

On a handier note, you're doing what all the other Muslims, Christians etc are doing. You're interpreting something the way you want and it's so vague you can make it fit with anything.

Find me scripture or religious texts that shows me a physic's equation. Or how about the structure of a cell with details? How about the contents of the sun? Or what about a religious sourced explanation of photosynthesis.

Lastly, the Big bang or the Big Crunch don't have explosions in them and I don't see how they could 'shatter'. One is about rapid expansion the other is vice versa.

Forgot to add, the big crunch isn't as evident as the big crunch. You'd look really stupid if evidence was discovered pointing to another scenario.

At 7/2/09 04:50 PM, Brick-top wrote: Forgot to add, the big crunch isn't as evident as the big Bang. You'd look really stupid if evidence was discovered pointing to another scenario.

Fixed, dramatic effect etc.

Oh the irony!

At 7/2/09 03:22 PM, Xinimater wrote: But I do believe that there is some force up there that created us all, or else how could we even cease to exist? Something had to had started the Big Bang when there was nothing there before,

There was not necessarily 'nothing' there before the Big Bang happened. Look up the Cyclic Model theory, which proposes a universe constantly in a cycle of Big Bang-Big Crunch-Big Bang-Big Crunch forever.

And besides, how do you explain the origins of this magic force?

And why is that more likely than the Christian God? The concept of the Christian God is a construct of a human mind; but then again, so is the 'force' you are proposing. Just because you describe it in terribly vague/ambiguous terms does not make it any more likely.

At 7/2/09 04:50 PM, Brick-top wrote:
Find me scripture or religious texts that shows me a physic's equation.

Find me one physics equation which describes events with 100% accuracy.
Hint: you can find none, because all physics equations are approximations/idealisations of what actually happens.

The best we can get is that it's close enough for practical purposes.

Science is never truth, it's only a first order approximation of it.

At 7/3/09 05:57 AM, RubberTrucky wrote:

At 7/2/09 04:50 PM, Brick-top wrote:
Find me scripture or religious texts that shows me a physic's equation.

Find me one physics equation which describes events with 100% accuracy.
Hint: you can find none, because all physics equations are approximations/idealisations of what actually happens.

Who ever said science in general dealt with 100% of accuracy?

The best we can get is that it's close enough for practical purposes.

Science is never truth, it's only a first order approximation of it.

He said:
supports most of scientific fact.

He has not provided any evidence of this other than overly vague and easily interpreted sentences.

At 7/3/09 08:59 AM, Brick-top wrote:
He has not provided any evidence of this other than overly vague and easily interpreted sentences.

The thing is that a physics formula often stands for an observation that can be made. So if I say that we live on this earth because the earth attracts us, I've restated the law of gravity.

At 7/3/09 10:42 AM, RubberTrucky wrote: The thing is that a physics formula often stands for an observation that can be made. So if I say that we live on this earth because the earth attracts us, I've restated the law of gravity.

To which the Wiccan Religion does not have.

But they do have magic, the afterlife, Gods and Aether.

How very scientific indeed.

At 7/2/09 02:10 PM, H0ARX0R wrote:

2. You cant prove it
By material science you cant. Religion claims to be beyond it. Thus, its okay. However, material science can be used to point out probabilities and abstract ideas are healthy for the mind and only serve to enhance cognition.

Remember kids, evolution is only a theory!

Exept in THAT case theory means FACT.

Evolution is a fucking fact.

At 7/3/09 05:01 PM, Brick-top wrote:
But they do have magic, the afterlife, Gods and Aether.

That's a bit overstated, I think. Or maybe the term Wiccan is misused. There are those people who believe nature itself is a God(ess) and determines the laws under which nature operates (through the laws of Physics e.g.)
The afterlife is seen as a form of good luck/protection granted by people who have died, good will. (arguable if they have more attention to the afterlife part, or rather the protection part of those who have died)
As to witchcraft, it happens, but I'm not really sure if this is all of the Wiccan community that follows this and to what extend this happens. there are ceremonial stuff with calling for the Keepers of the Cardinal Directions (which is more of symbolic thing) and there are ideals of new thought (like the law of attraction)

But one should really be careful in taking symbolism for stupidity.

At 7/3/09 06:47 PM, RubberTrucky wrote: That's a bit overstated, I think. Or maybe the term Wiccan is misused. There are those people who believe nature itself is a God(ess) and determines the laws under which nature operates (through the laws of Physics e.g.)
The afterlife is seen as a form of good luck/protection granted by people who have died, good will. (arguable if they have more attention to the afterlife part, or rather the protection part of those who have died)
As to witchcraft, it happens, but I'm not really sure if this is all of the Wiccan community that follows this and to what extend this happens. there are ceremonial stuff with calling for the Keepers of the Cardinal Directions (which is more of symbolic thing) and there are ideals of new thought (like the law of attraction)

But one should really be careful in taking symbolism for stupidity.

Yes, 'some' however others see both as actual deities. Even some moderate Christians don't see the Abrahamic god as a deity.

Reincarnation is popular in Wicca (as well is the soul which is known as the Aether) and before their souls are shipped to another body they hang out in the otherworld (e,g the afterlife).

So we've got magic, gods, reincarnation and a lounge area. Apparently being more scientific means it's dependant on how less you can bastardise reality and interpret the religion in order to fit the current criteria of knowledge. Hey!! It IS a religion!

Okay, the reason why I believe in God is that there is some force of some sort that is far greater than our existence. Some things happen which even science cannot explain. I have experienced one of these events. Its too complicated and personal to explain but trust me it happened. People see the world in different ways and have different opinions, and this causes people to argue and conflict with each other. It's human nature. As long as there is more than two people in the world, there will be a fight or conflict of some sort. The world will never be free of it.

At 7/10/09 03:38 PM, jasonwilliams wrote: I have experienced one of these events.

This omnipotent creator guy doesn't seem to step in very frequently.

At 7/10/09 03:38 PM, jasonwilliams wrote: I have experienced one of these events.

i was convinced i spoke to God as i looked down on the world from space (out of body experience and everything) in a dream once, but that hasn't stopped me from not believing.