Québec, why can't it be independent

[jonnyrules935]

Today, June 24th, is the Saint-Jean Baptiste, which is kind of like the 4th of July for Americans. We québécois celebrate our cultural particularity throughout the province. Every year I re-realize how proud we actually are to be so different, and it always brings me the following questions : Why aren't we a country yet ? Why shouldn't we be a country ? What does the Canadian unity bring to Québec that couldn't be gained otherwise ?

So today I ask all the Canadians what they really think Canada as a unity brings to their province.

[killxp]

At 6/24/09 09:43 PM, jonnyrules935 wrote: Today, June 24th, is the Saint-Jean Baptiste, which is kind of like the 4th of July for Americans. We québécois celebrate our cultural particularity throughout the province. Every year I re-realize how proud we actually are to be so different, and it always brings me the following questions : Why aren't we a country yet ? Why shouldn't we be a country ? What does the Canadian unity bring to Québec that couldn't be gained otherwise ?

So today I ask all the Canadians what they really think Canada as a unity brings to their province.

Do you mind letting the rest of us in on the specifics here? I know you are reaching out only to Canadians and I understand why you may do this but you may get more, even quality, feedback if you try to get the rest of us to relate. Also, could you translate the quote in your sig? Thanks in advance. Late.

[Freedomblades]

im gunna answer this with a question... U got the money to start a new country? cuz u aint getting any from canada's pocket.

plus i understand your want to express your diffrence between other canadians but do you see other people wanting to make new countrys just because there diffrent then other inhabitents?

[Bolo]

Not being Canadian myself, perhaps I am not qualified to pass judgment on the issue, but I imagine that Canadians outside of Quebec would have some serious reservations about giving up the St. Lawrence river as an access to the Atlantic, considering the volume of trade that occurs on that waterway. I'm sure that Quebec would give favorable trade status to Canadian traffic if and when it separates from the rest of the country, but having to pass through border customs would severely slow down the progress of goods transportation to the coastline for export, and from the coast for import. Not to mention that Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Labrador would be literally cut off from the rest of Canada, were Quebec to form its own independent nation.

[ForkRobotik]

I'm Canadian, and you're free to separate so long as your people vote that way. However, the Native Americans that live in Quebec have stated numerous times that they will not go with you if you separate, nor let you tear up the treaties to steal their land, which Bouchard himself wanted to do. That's over 90% of your province that wont go with you.

As far as remaining in Canada goes, it's probably in your best interest to do so. Your province actually takes more money than it gives to the federal government, and your party is a shrewd negotiator, especially given the current minority government in power. I for one wish my province had it's own political party..oh wait that's the liberals nevermind ;)

Anyway, Before i go on i wouldn't mind hearing reasons why you would want to separate?...Surely it's not something so material and shallow as you speaking french?

[morefngdbs]

At 6/25/09 02:36 AM, ForkRobotik wrote: Anyway, Before i go on i wouldn't mind hearing reasons why you would want to separate?...Surely it's not something so material and shallow as you speaking french?

;;;;
For many Quebecois, that is exactly why they want to seperate. Plus let us not forget they are still upset about having their asses kicked on the Plains of Abraham. The re-enactment of which was cancelled because of Sovereignists threats of violence , and demonstrations against what they call " The insulting reminder of the humiliating defeat of their ancestors in 1759 " (planned for this years 250th anniversary)

I have friends & family in the Eastern townships of Quebec, Most people there don't want seperation & would fight it if Quebec tried to form their own country. That is as previously mentioned exactly what the Natives of Quebec feel as well. For some reason not readily explained the seperatist Quebecer's seem to think "They Own The Land" .That Somehow It is their Inalienable Right even though the French were defeated & Quebec was conquered by England from France.

I remember before one of the reforendum votes I was in Montreal & the talk on the street was "IF" Quebec won the vote & seperated from Canada, they would continue to use Canadian Currency & co-opperate with the rest of Canada.....W T F ? As a province in this country, that's what your doing now !

What I find really sad is that I have a brother in Korea, a good friend in China, & I know people who are in Vietnam & Thailand...all of them are there TEACHING ENGLISH to the people who want to be able to communicate in English, the language of Business on this planet. While the French seperatists lamely attempt to keep French as the dominant language & those in Quebec who speak only french, are strangers when ever they visit the rest of their own country !

For make no mistake, Quebecers are citizens of Canada, many of them (a minority for sure) seem to believe they are not . That they are citicens of Quebec & its this "Us against Them" attitude that really IMO sucks and does no good for anyone what-so-ever.

Did you know that there is only 1 Bilingual Province in Canada .
That is New Brunswick & for some reason the French & English get along fine there. No one wants to kick out the other, most english people speak french & all the french people i've met there (my girlfriend is from New Brunswick) can speak english. Funny ole world ain't it.

[poxpower]

I've never heard someone smart argue for this, or someone who wasn't a politician.

You'll usually hear it in the same sentence as "fuck the americans" or "fuck the english" or some redneck-like shit.

[VenomKing666]

Honestly I don't really care. I agree that quebec is a different culture and al, but getting a country will not bring significant advantages and more disadvantages.

[jonnyrules935]

I have a few things to answer to, and I hope to clear a few things up :

Although the explenation given by the liberal governement was that

The re-enactment of which was cancelled because of Sovereignists threats of violence , and demonstrations against what they call " The insulting reminder of the humiliating defeat of their ancestors in 1759 " (planned for this years 250th anniversary)

The real thing here is not that some extremists (because they are) enouced these threats, its really the whole insult that Canada comes to my city, and wants to show me again how Her Majesty's army kicked my ancestors' asses 250 years ago. That's kind of like going to Berlin and make a huge parade of how they lost WW2, celebrating the defeat of a nation on their soil is insulting. My point here is that there are so many battles that French-canadians and English-canadians fought alongside that could be reanacted, but the Federal government decided it was still better to insult every French-canadian instead. (By the way, we won the second battle at the plains of Abraham, somehow it was never taken in consideration when they decided to reanact this piece of history)

Secondly, every Québec citizen has the right to vote, so western Montréal and the Eastern Townships will vote 'no' because they are anglophones. (and for the Americans that will read this, these people are the loyalists that ran away when you liberated yoursleves from the British Empire.) Unfortunatly for them, they are within Québec so if the majority of citizens vote yes, they will have to comply. As for Natives, they will have to tell me why they don't want to be within an independent Québec because I have no idea what Canada has done for them, expet putting them into reserves, and not helping them in any way even thought the alcoholism and suicide rate are through the roof.

Thirdly, the main advantage of being a country is not that you can use your own currency, or completely ignore your neighbors, it's that you can make your own laws an no one can say the contrary. Right now, we have many laws put in order to maintain the French language in Québec, because it is declining significantly in any other province, from the time High and Low-Canada was united until now, the percentage of Francophones went from over 55% to below 25%. That means less and less laws are voted at Ottawa for and by francophones. So we are trying to maintain the French culture in Québec with laws that forces citizen to learn and to use it in public areas like work and within the government. (I understand that some other countries are working in order to learn English, but there is a limit between gaining a new culture and forgetting your own.) Unfortunatly, the Canadian diversity laws makes it impossible to apply these French-protecting laws, because anyone who wants to function uniquely in English (either by lazyness or racism) can go to the supreme cournt and they will win, because the federal laws prime over Provincial ones.

Did you know that there is only 1 Bilingual Province in Canada .
That is New Brunswick & for some reason the French & English get along fine there. No one wants to kick out the other, most english people speak french & all the french people i've met there (my girlfriend is from New Brunswick) can speak english. Funny ole world ain't it.

I like this quote, it is a funny world, it is in fact very funny that the Acadians are not doing anything to improve their position, because they are constantly fading in numbers with time and generations, because they live in English so sadly, they forget French. Go and see the statistics and you will notice that there are less and less French-Canadians in Canada.

By the way, no one of you really answered me, what does Canada as a unity bring to your province ?
And don't tell me the Federal government sends money to it, you need to realize they are giving you your taxes back.

[ScytheCutter]

At 6/25/09 09:49 PM, jonnyrules935 wrote:

ancestors in 1759 " (planned for this years 250th anniversary)

(By the way, we won the second battle at the plains of Abraham, somehow it was never taken in consideration when they decided to reanact this piece of history)

No but neither did your Pseudo- FLQ "extremisits" who protested the reenactment

Secondly, every Québec citizen has the right to vote, so western Montréal and the Eastern Townships will vote 'no' because they are anglophones. (and for the Americans that will read this, these people are the loyalists that ran away when you liberated yoursleves from the British Empire.) Unfortunatly for them, they are within Québec so if the majority of citizens vote yes, they will have to comply.

No, confederation was a federal level movement, so it would be up to the Canadian Government ultimately if Ridings that voted "No" would have to comply. Remember if you say you want to seperate, they tell you what you get because it's their land.

:As for Natives, they will have to tell me why they don't want to be within an independent Québec because I have no idea what Canada has done for them, expet putting them into reserves, and not helping them in any way even thought the alcoholism and suicide rate are through the roof.

Bill 101 isn't that appealing either.

Thirdly, the main advantage of being a country is not that you can use your own currency, or completely ignore your neighbors, it's that you can make your own laws an no one can say the contrary. Right now, we have many laws put in order to maintain the French language in Québec, because it is declining significantly in any other province

That's working well isn't it?

:less and less laws are voted at Ottawa for and by francophones.

Because francophones don't represent the entire best interest of Canada

:So we are trying to maintain the French culture in Québec with laws that forcescitizen to learn and to use it in public areas like work and within the government. (I understand that some other countries are working in order to learn English, but there is a limit between gaining a new culture and forgetting your own.) Unfortunatly, the Canadian diversity laws makes it impossible to apply these French-protecting laws, because anyone who wants to function uniquely in English (either by lazyness or racism) can go to the supreme cournt and they will win, because the federal laws prime over Provincial ones.:

Wrong. The tongue police is very active in enforcing the provisions laid out in Bill 101. As a matter of fact, as of the new millenium all English schools in Quebec began the process of switching to Francais Langue Maternal education or Immersion to comply with the National Assembly. "French-protecting laws" (or to borrow a word from you, "racism") are very much alive in Quebec, and all you have to do is compare english schools to french schools.

[Freedomblades]

Really i doubt you guys will ever split off. even if your party does get voted into power do they really have the balls to go through the massive process of making a new country? Unless you wanna have a damned rebellion :/

[VenomKing666]

At 6/26/09 10:17 AM, Freedomblades wrote: Really i doubt you guys will ever split off. even if your party does get voted into power do they really have the balls to go through the massive process of making a new country? Unless you wanna have a damned rebellion :/

No, the Quebec Party does not have the balls to split even if they pretend they will, ti's just to rack in some votes from the remaining faggots that want to split, if we vote, the "NO" will most likely win, easily.

[morefngdbs]

At 6/25/09 11:35 PM, ScytheCutter wrote:

So we are trying to maintain the French culture in Québec with laws that forcescitizen to learn and to use it in public areas like work and within the government.

;;;When your only choice is to FORCE people into learning a language, you've already lost.
You will for the short term SLOW the loss ,but its game over.
(tell me again why people from France find humor with your 'provencial' accent & outdated linquistics)

I believe that the young generation of today will further dilute the french language in Quebec. English & other minority groups are bringiong their languages to Quebec & those languages will continue to be used in the homes , businesses & every day life until we have a dual language useage similar to New Brunswick.

[mikailus]

We wouldn't have this if Canada and her provinces had an elected HoS instead of another country's monarch.

[ScytheCutter]

At 6/26/09 10:12 PM, mikailus wrote: We wouldn't have this if Canada and her provinces had an elected HoS instead of another country's monarch.

Forget about the GG?

[mikailus]

At 6/26/09 10:54 PM, ScytheCutter wrote:

At 6/26/09 10:12 PM, mikailus wrote: We wouldn't have this if Canada and her provinces had an elected HoS instead of another country's monarch.

Forget about the GG?

Same thing.

[SolInvictus]

At 6/26/09 10:12 PM, mikailus wrote: We wouldn't have this if Canada and her provinces had an elected HoS instead of another country's monarch.

how would that help?

[mikailus]

At 6/27/09 12:11 AM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 6/26/09 10:12 PM, mikailus wrote: We wouldn't have this if Canada and her provinces had an elected HoS instead of another country's monarch.

how would that help?

Too broad to detail, but essentially it would be Canadian.

[mikailus]

At 6/27/09 12:11 AM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 6/26/09 10:12 PM, mikailus wrote: We wouldn't have this if Canada and her provinces had an elected HoS instead of another country's monarch.

how would that help?

Because the elected head of state represents ALL Canadians and any Canadian, especially Quebecois, can vote for and be head of state.

[Korriken]

Personally I would find it humorous that Quebec wants to seperate, all over them speaking a different language and being.. well... French.

If it's REALLY that huge of an issue to them, they could just move to France.

I live in Louisiana. You don't hear the french HERE trying to seperate a section of Louisiana from the rest of America. Perhaps the Quebecois could take a lesson from the Cajuns. Just freaking deal with it. If you wanna be french THAT badly, you could always move to France, a country that is overloaded with French culture.

The British (before they turned into a bunch of whiny little pussies) kicked France's ass and took Canada. Then Canada began to pretend to be its own country. Now the French in Canada are trying to break away.and pretend to form their own nation.

Question is, once Quebec pretends to be its own nation, how is it going to raise money to run a country? What does the province have that can bring in enough money to build and repair roads, form their own currency, raise an army, equip an army, pay people to work for the government, etc?

I somehow don't think Canada would allow another nation to use its currency as its own. They wouldn't be able to print Canadian money, because they're not longer Canada. They would have to form their own currency, which would probably be worth little if anything. If they DID print Canadian money, that would most likely be seen as a hostile act by a foreign country.

Or, perhaps, they do start pretending to be a nation, find themselves up proverbial shit creek without a paddle, and begin begging for money from other countries, when they find out that the social leeches are far too numerous and they're not bringing in much tax revenue.

[mikailus]

Let's face it. Apathy is destroying Canada and no one's doing a damned thing!

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/27/09 06:41 AM, mikailus wrote: Apathy is destroying Canada and no one's doing a damned thing!

move to America.

[mikailus]

At 6/27/09 06:52 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 6/27/09 06:41 AM, mikailus wrote: Apathy is destroying Canada and no one's doing a damned thing!

move to America.

Fuck no! I'm not going to let my motherland deteriorate! Nor should any other Canadian!

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/27/09 06:53 AM, mikailus wrote:

At 6/27/09 06:52 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 6/27/09 06:41 AM, mikailus wrote: Apathy is destroying Canada and no one's doing a damned thing!

move to America.

Fuck no! I'm not going to let my motherland deteriorate! Nor should any other Canadian!

Sorry sorry it was just a suggestion...

[morefngdbs]

At 6/27/09 03:04 AM, Korriken wrote: If it's REALLY that huge of an issue to them, they could just move to France.

;;;
They sure could...& they wouldn't have to go to Europe...they could move to St.Pierre or Miquelon they are about 16 miles off the coast of southern Newfoundland & that is French territory.

I live in Louisiana. You don't hear the french HERE trying to seperate a section of Louisiana from the rest of America. Perhaps the Quebecois could take a lesson from the Cajuns. Just freaking deal with it. If you wanna be french THAT badly, you could always move to France, a country that is overloaded with French culture.

;;;
I haven't heard the residents (predominantly french ancestory) of the Magdaline Islands in the Gulf of St. Lawerence crying to seperate either.

The British (before they turned into a bunch of whiny little pussies) kicked France's ass and took Canada. Then Canada began to pretend to be its own country. Now the French in Canada are trying to break away.and pretend to form their own nation.

;;;
Let's be clear, the French in New Brunswick are not trying to break up Canada.
The French in Nova Scotia & we have 2 distinct groups, the Acadians in Southern Nova Scotia, many of them decendants of those who were shipped south to Louisianna. & The French in Cape Breton esp. in the Chetticamp area and there are some more in the Louisburg area as well. I have nevr heard any of them wanting to leave Canada.
To be fair on the vote in Quebec, the MAJORITY didn't want to seperate either !

Having a different head of state wouldn't make any difference. how anyone can be so misguided to think an elected Canadian instead of a Canadian Monarch could make some kind of magical difference is lunacy , plain & simple.

[Korriken]

At 6/27/09 07:20 AM, morefngdbs wrote:

Having a different head of state wouldn't make any difference. how anyone can be so misguided to think an elected Canadian instead of a Canadian Monarch could make some kind of magical difference is lunacy , plain & simple.

its all about perception really. It's kind of like having a black American president. People figured it would change everything. has it? no. Its business as usual in Washington. the only difference is the color of the presidential family's skin.

[mikailus]

You know, the logic behind keeping the Queen is just fucking ridiculous, man.

Plus it's not Obama's fault but the Democrats in Congress that's doing what they can to bunglefuck his efforts. I admit he is an appeaser but it's better than Bush.

Anyways ...

[SolInvictus]

At 6/27/09 02:37 AM, mikailus wrote: Too broad to detail, but essentially it would be Canadian.

k....but Québecers feel they aren't Canadian...

[SolInvictus]

At 6/27/09 12:26 PM, mikailus wrote: You know, the logic behind keeping the Queen is just fucking ridiculous, man.

for fuck's sake; this has nothing to do with keeping the monarchy.

[mikailus]

At 6/27/09 01:10 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 6/27/09 02:37 AM, mikailus wrote: Too broad to detail, but essentially it would be Canadian.

k....but Québecers feel they aren't Canadian...

Because they haven't been treated like Canadians, and they oppose the monarchy. I'm an Anglophone from Saskatchewan and I know this!