USA gives israel to much suport ?

[Brazilman]

i dont know i think on most occasions the us is to much suportive of israel take that last gaza ofensive israel end up kiling more civlians by most reports, and the us says ...be careful but realy i dont know

[PowerRangerYELLOW]

Noone can really own land but according to the bible. Israel belongs to the jews.

[Korriken]

At 6/24/09 06:24 AM, PowerRangerYELLOW wrote: Noone can really own land but according to the bible. Israel belongs to the jews.

that really has nothing to do with anything considering the bible isn't the law of the land over there, and the Jews study the Torah, not the bible, which still isn't the law of the land.

land belongs to whoever has a strong enough military to prevent another military from taking it over.

[PowerRangerYELLOW]

At 6/24/09 06:35 AM, Korriken wrote:

At 6/24/09 06:24 AM, PowerRangerYELLOW wrote: Noone can really own land but according to the bible. Israel belongs to the jews.

that really has nothing to do with anything considering the bible isn't the law of the land over there, and the Jews study the Torah, not the bible, which still isn't the law of the land.

land belongs to whoever has a strong enough military to prevent another military from taking it over.

yes but this would explain a lot about why isreal and the Iraqi are fighting over isreal aka. the holy land.

[Mr-Miyamoto]

Israelis have much sway in US politics, there would have a lot of trouble for US officials who stopped supporting Israel.

[zoolrule]

There is no too much support for the good guys.

[yinyangman]

OMG, can it be that supporting the poor, like Israel, is the answer to the economy's detrimental state?

[simonshragna]

@PowerRangerYELLOW The Iraqi aren't in the holy land (like that term, it's neutral, i'm using it too), but the Palestinians

@zoolrule There isn't one good or bad, first of all, you think the Israelian are good, because it has been said to you, and you accepted it, second of all according to the Palestinians the Israelians are bad, and so thinks the entire Middle-East.

@yinyangman The Israelians aren't poor, they're very rich, so if you would support the poor, you'd be supporting the Palestinians.

[D2Kvirus]

You just noticed this now? They've had Minorah-tinted glasses for the last, I don't know, 60 years?

[zoolrule]

At 6/24/09 02:28 PM, simonshragna wrote: @zoolrule There isn't one good or bad, first of all, you think the Israelian are good, because it has been said to you, and you accepted it, second of all according to the Palestinians the Israelians are bad, and so thinks the entire Middle-East.

No, i know Israelis are good because i've studied the situation further than reading The Independent's/The Guardian's totally unbiased reports, and studied it further than 2 years back.

According to the Palestinians who were brainwashed for decades that the Israelis are the devil on human form? Yea, because the middle-east is full of democratic countries like Israel who are totally fair in their judgment. Yea, the Arab education is so neutral and not full of disgusting lies - that are the actual and only reason why we haven't got peace yet.
Thankfully, some Arab countries have realized that lying to themselves and to their civilians doesn't get them anywhere, and omg, unbelievably "ACCEPTED ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO EXIST, AND OMG WITH THEIR AMAZING KINDNESS DIDN'T DECLARE A 6TH WAR AGAINST ISRAEL IN ORDER TO DESTROY IT".

Israel are the good guys.

[simonshragna]

First of all, i also did some research about this.
Second of all, every country on the world accepts Israels right to exist, and every country except Israel accepts Palestinas right to exist.
And yes, i agree in that the hamas is to extreme, but the times (there were multiple) that the other Islamitic tried to protect the Palestinian, Israel just conquered land from those countries, and didn't give it back, even though the UN ordered it them, and Israel does a lot of those tricks, the only reason that they didn't get consequences for it, is because the USA supported them, and I'm happy Obama isn't all Israel, it's a great step forward.

[zoolrule]

At 6/26/09 03:52 AM, simonshragna wrote: First of all, i also did some research about this.

No you didn't.

Second of all, every country on the world accepts Israels right to exist, and every country except Israel accepts Palestinas right to exist.

Israel recognized Palestine in the 1994-2000 Oslo accords, that were simply Israel in unilateral way simply pushed for peace, and we all know what happened next - Palestinians refused and declared second intifada. They don't want peace. They want to TALK ABOUT PEACE, and then continue with their known agenda since 1948. (BTW - I put my fucking life that you have no idea what Oslo accords are. You have no idea on the second Intifada and on the Palestinians betraying, again, Israels trust - Giving the Israeli right-wing more points)

And by the way, countries who do not recognize Israel :
Algeria, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Somalia, Sudan, Tunisia, Bolivia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Afghanistan ,Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives, Pakistan, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia.

And yes, i agree in that the hamas is to extreme, but the times (there were multiple) that the other Islamitic tried to protect the Palestinian, Israel just conquered land from those countries, and didn't give it back, even though the UN ordered it them, and Israel does a lot of those tricks, the only reason that they didn't get consequences for it, is because the USA supported them, and I'm happy Obama isn't all Israel, it's a great step forward.

A bit extreme? They are super fanatic Islamofascist terror organization, supported by the Palestinians.

Tried to protect Palestinians?
Do you mean in 1948, when Jews accepted the two state solution, Palestinians and Arabs refused and declared the first bloody war that caused all of the shit we had in the last 60 years? All they had to do is accept Israel's right to exist. They didn't.
Or maybe in 1956? They conquered Sinai, gave it back to Egypt, just so Egypt would declare another war against them in 1967, when they conquered Sinai again? Yea, they protected them so much.

Israel conquered these lands, in a war declared against them - In order to destroy them 5 fucking times.
And what did Israel do with them?
GAVE LAND FOR PEACE WITH EGYPT.
GAVE LAND FOR PEACE WITH JORDAN.
But they can't do it anymore, they will not be suckers.

And yea, i'm very happy with OBama too. (In my opinion Obama is much more Pro-Israeli than Bush, but never mind)

[ohbombuh]

I know it's basically bumping, but there are enough topics on Israel and I think this thread is a good indicator of the turnaround. The U.S. administration wants Israel to give up a chunk of land that may or may not bring peace (let's face it, Palestinians don't want them to have ANY land), and Egypt, a temporary ally, has reopened trade to Gaza, with the brunt of the risks falling on Israelites. It seems like everybody's starting to turn their backs on the Jews again. I'm not trying to imitate Elie Wiesel, but does anyone else think we're gearing towards a second holocaust?

[Camarohusky]

At 5/26/11 11:30 PM, ohbombuh wrote: I'm not trying to imitate Elie Wiesel, but does anyone else think we're gearing towards a second holocaust?

Hahaha! No.

[aviewaskewed]

At 6/24/09 07:02 AM, PowerRangerYELLOW wrote: yes but this would explain a lot about why isreal and the Iraqi are fighting over isreal aka. the holy land.

If this was the crusades and the churches were more powerful and had more authority, then yes, it probably would (though it wouldn't be the whole truth I'm sure). But they don't, and their influence has faded. Pure and simple it's about making money. America makes a good amount of money supplying Israel guns and other aid. They also make money doing the same to other regimes in the Middle East, plus if ANY American president can negotiate a lasting peace in the middle east it'd be THE foreign policy get. Politics is not a simple thing, that's why most people don't understand it.

[Halberd]

Well I do feel a bit bad for Israel, even though they shouldn't have even been given that land in the first place ("We've killed Hitler and we feel bad for your Jews, you want some land?") they are pretty much hated by Muslims and without the US wouldn't be they kind of fucked?

[LordZeebmork]

At 5/27/11 02:17 AM, FurryDemon wrote: Well I do feel a bit bad for Israel, even though they shouldn't have even been given that land in the first place

nation-states are a Good Thing

[SmilezRoyale]

At 5/27/11 06:45 AM, LordZeebmork wrote:

At 5/27/11 02:17 AM, FurryDemon wrote: Well I do feel a bit bad for Israel, even though they shouldn't have even been given that land in the first place

nation-states are a Good Thing

Saying that a group of people with a common racial, religious, cultural [etc.] background are more happy on average than those in mixed societies is a far cry from making the normative claim that

States predicated on some racial or religious heritage can claim land that was not the private property of any of their present individual members nor was even legitimately owned by common standards of law and justice by the individuals [the british], and thus it was not even theirs to give.

Right wing media mocks the fact that Obama wants to take Israel back to its 1967 borders, claiming historical and cultural changes have made such a change impractical and unfeasible. Did anyone mention at the outset of this grandiose scheme for a Jewish State in the mandate of palestine that trying to return to the borders of at least several centuries past was unfeasible, as it ignored cultural and historical changes that have occured between when "The Jews" owned "Jerusalem" and the end of the second world war?

And I put those two words in quotes to point out that both of them are mostly metaphorical terms.

The very concept of state owned property is anti-social at it's core.

[Camarohusky]

At 5/27/11 03:49 AM, RightWingGamer wrote: It's sickening how many people would want to see the Israelis forced from their homes and slaughtered by fanatics, rather than simply give this nation the simple support it deserves.

And sentences like this are why the vast majority of Americans just want rid of Israel ties. I am sick and tired of having two categories. If I'm not supporting 100% and more of Israel's actions I become mini-Hitler who rejoices in the evisceration of baby Jewish children.

Yeah, sorry. The crazier people like this make their bullshit rhetoric the more and more Israel loses my support.

[Ericho]

Did you know that the USA supporting Israel was the main reason why the September 11th attacks happened, according to Osama bin Laden? I think that in terms of support, Israel happens to be a state that has so much conflict it would only make sense they would get support from the world's most powerful countries. I believe that we should keep on supporting them the way we would support any other country in conflict.

[aviewaskewed]

At 5/27/11 02:17 AM, FurryDemon wrote: Well I do feel a bit bad for Israel, even though they shouldn't have even been given that land in the first place ("We've killed Hitler and we feel bad for your Jews, you want some land?") they are pretty much hated by Muslims and without the US wouldn't be they kind of fucked?

That is not how Israel was founded. Israel existed well before the Holocaust. So some basic research before commenting on an issue plz.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 5/27/11 10:12 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

And sentences like this are why the vast majority of Americans just want rid of Israel ties. I am sick and tired of having two categories. If I'm not supporting 100% and more of Israel's actions I become mini-Hitler who rejoices in the evisceration of baby Jewish children.

Wait are you sure? Where's the data for this.

[Camarohusky]

At 5/27/11 10:20 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: Wait are you sure? Where's the data for this.

Purely anecdotal, but I have encountered it was too often. I mean, there's stupidity like this in many discussions, but the quickness and ease through which this sort fo ultimatum is thrown out when it comes to discussing Israel is just appalling.

[Jkolo]

At 5/28/11 12:15 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 5/27/11 10:20 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: Wait are you sure? Where's the data for this.

Purely anecdotal, but I have encountered it was too often. I mean, there's stupidity like this in many discussions, but the quickness and ease through which this sort fo ultimatum is thrown out when it comes to discussing Israel is just appalling.

This is a sociological thing. I mean it occurs in other scenarios too, i.e. , if you didn't vote for Obama your racist. I don't like it, but it is a human condition, you know?

[Camarohusky]

At 5/28/11 01:14 AM, Jkolo wrote: This is a sociological thing. I mean it occurs in other scenarios too, i.e. , if you didn't vote for Obama your racist. I don't like it, but it is a human condition, you know?

I know it does. However, when it comes to this the accusations are quicker to come out, stronger, and much more sincere. It seems that there is a large group of people who genuinely believe that if you're not unconditionally supporting Israel, you want Jews to be extreminated.

[Ranger2]

There's already a thread for this.

I don't know about how much we give Israel and how much we get back but I support them. Israel is the only real democracy and ally in the Middle East.

[Ranger2]

At 5/27/11 03:49 AM, RightWingGamer wrote:

And I lose faith in the intelligence of humanity every time I see some fucking retard say Israel conquers too much territory. HAVE YOU LOOKED FOR ISRAEL ON A GLOBE RECENTLY? YOU COULDN'T SPOT IT WITH A FUCKING MAGNIFYING GLASS, YOU RETARD!

Amen. Amen.

Israel, including the occupied territories, is about the size of New Jersey. It gave up the Sinai Peninsula, (which about double Israel's size) and gave up Gaza and now it only controls part of the West Bank.

I think it's amazing how people say Israel is a land-grabber. In the last few decades all it has done was give lands back. The last time it actually got land was over 40 years ago, in 1967. Since then it gave back parts conquered in 1973, (which were negligible) the Sinai, Gaza, and parts of the West Bank.

Now nobody calls Egypt or Jordan land-grabbers. You know why there was no Palestine after 1948? Not the Israelis' fault, but Egypt's and Jordan's. Jordan annexed the West Bank and said that it was an integral part of Jordan, and Egypt annexed Gaza and refused to let them make their own state. There were no Intifadas during then, only after Israel conquered the territories THEN they wanted their own state.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 5/28/11 12:15 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 5/27/11 10:20 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: Wait are you sure? Where's the data for this.

Purely anecdotal, but I have encountered it was too often. I mean, there's stupidity like this in many discussions, but the quickness and ease through which this sort fo ultimatum is thrown out when it comes to discussing Israel is just appalling.

then it could not only be false but the vast majority of americans could be israel supporting fanatics?

[Chris-V2]

Oh another Israel thread, great.

Considering Israel would not exist without military backing from the US government I'd be inclined to say yes!

[abdulbasit]

so happy they opened the border from egypt to palenstine. YESsss