Please call me senator

[TheBellmaker]

Two days ago Senator Barbara boxer said to General Walsh during a discussion about New Orleans:

"Could you say 'senator' instead of 'ma'am? It's just a thing. I worked so hard to get that title. I'd appreciate it."

Rude and uncalled for?

I think that it was very rude, especially to an general
Discuss

[TheBellmaker]

More info + vid

[elcoyote357]

I agree, I think it is very rude. And it isn't like she was talking to somebody of a lower rank or a civilian. I personally believe that a general is higher-if not equal to-a senator.

[TheMason]

At 6/19/09 01:34 AM, elcoyote357 wrote: I agree, I think it is very rude. And it isn't like she was talking to somebody of a lower rank or a civilian. I personally believe that a general is higher-if not equal to-a senator.

There is not enough information.

If he never addressed her as Senator, or he did it once and then started calling her Ma'am instead of Senator...he is in the wrong.

If he only did once or twice...then she's being a bitch.

Finally, no a general is NOT higher or equal to a senator. In our system the military is placed under civilian control. This does not end with the president (executive branch) but also extends to the legislative branch. Generals are appointed by the president. But they are approved by the senate.

That is one of the great things about our Republic. The military does not out-rank any elected official. Even within their individual branches they have a civilian boss. The four-star general who is the Air Force Chief of Staff is answerable to the Secretary of the Air Force (ditto for the Army, Navy & Marines). The four-star Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is answerable to the Secretary of Defense. In turn...these secretaries are answerable to the president and the senate.

[kraor024]

There's not much information to go by but using the information at hand, I think the general was rude

To my understanding our military has a great sense of tradition & formality(I've never served so correct me if I'm wrong), & This was clearly a formal setting & the general did not address her by her formal title, a military officer not addressing a senator as such in a formal setting could be construed as an insult.

[TheStonePilot]

It's not very rude..
She was simply asking him to address her by a title she beleived she earned.
Unless she was a real bitch about it, it just depends on what the general thinks of her.

[TheMason]

At 6/19/09 08:53 AM, kraor024 wrote: There's not much information to go by but using the information at hand, I think the general was rude

To my understanding our military has a great sense of tradition & formality(I've never served so correct me if I'm wrong), & This was clearly a formal setting & the general did not address her by her formal title, a military officer not addressing a senator as such in a formal setting could be construed as an insult.

I would like to see the entire exchange. If it was only a slip-up and he had called her Senator up until then...it was something small that Sen. Boxer should have had the graciousness to not notice.

However, if the General repeatedly called her Ma'am instead of Senator...then that is a breach of ettiquette on his part.

That's why I would like to see the entire exchange or otherwise find out how many times he had referred to her as Senator or Ma'am before this.

But then again he is only a one-star. Speaking in front of the Senate may not be something he's used to. He is afterall a Junior Flag Officer. So if this was his first time in front of a Senate panel it could be a case of nerves.

[TheBellmaker]

Entire comittee session

Questions start at 39 mins.

Refered to her as madam chair, then when he started getting pressed by Boxer he started using ma'am.

[ballpeenhammer]

She wasn't being a bitch. He simply wasn't referring to her by her preferred title, and considering that she earned it, she has the right to be addresed as such.

[Aughiris]

At 6/19/09 04:55 PM, ballpeenhammer wrote: She wasn't being a bitch. He simply wasn't referring to her by her preferred title, and considering that she earned it, she has the right to be addresed as such.

'Earned' it?

Oh come on now. A politician does not 'earn' his title. A politician manipulates the public so that he may be appointed a title by the public. Unless you find manipulating and earning to be the same thing, than you sir are wrong.

[Durin413]

For all those who say the general was in the wrong, would you also consider it wrong if he used the term sir to a male senator? If not, than there ought to be nothing wrong with Ma'am, as it is the female equivalent of sir. And these are terms that the military uses for respect.

[kraor024]

I'd have a problem if the senator addressed the general as sir instead of his proper title. This was a formal setting in which custom dictates that you address someone by their proper title.

To be honest I don't know why people care if the senator rude or not. Is it actually important for a senator to be polite?

[MisterRPG]

If she was calling him by his given title, there's nothing wrong with asking that he call her by hers.

[TheMason]

Speaking as someone who is in the military, if the General did not refer to her as "Senator" or "Madame Chair" then he is in the wrong.

That's it.

Doesn't matter if we're talking about male or female senators or generals. When you are a military member, you call an elected official by their office title. In this case, Senator.

If it was a once or twice thing...then yeah Boxer is being a bitch...but still within her right.

[Achilles2]

At 6/19/09 08:34 PM, Aughiris wrote: 'Earned' it?

Oh come on now. A politician does not 'earn' his title. A politician manipulates the public so that he may be appointed a title by the public. Unless you find manipulating and earning to be the same thing, than you sir are wrong.

Yet another ignorant statement on politicians. No, you DO earn your title. It isn't easy to go out there and speak the truth and get elected by a largely stupid population. Just because the Kennedys can use their name and the Romneys can use their money doesn't mean every politician uses the same means to get elected.

[ThePretenders]

He should have been more courteous. When addressing people of status you should call them by their role and not by any other name. If he said it a few times then its a mistake and if he said it more then it isn't.

[Aughiris]

At 6/20/09 09:08 AM, Achilles2 wrote:

At 6/19/09 08:34 PM, Aughiris wrote: 'Earned' it?

Oh come on now. A politician does not 'earn' his title. A politician manipulates the public so that he may be appointed a title by the public. Unless you find manipulating and earning to be the same thing, than you sir are wrong.

Yet another ignorant statement on politicians. No, you DO earn your title. It isn't easy to go out there and speak the truth and get elected by a largely stupid population. Just because the Kennedys can use their name and the Romneys can use their money doesn't mean every politician uses the same means to get elected.

So what are you saying? That manipulating the masses so that you are granted a title is the same as 'earning' a title? 'Earning' something means that you have worked hard for it and thus have proven yourself to be worthy of this title. I have yet to see a politician who worked hard for their title.

[Foreshadow]

The general worked for decades to get his title I'll bet, and you don't get to a high position in the military without having a dick or 2 in your ass.

There's a difference between deserving respect, and demanding respect.

[Christopherr]

In the Deep South, ma'am carries a much higher connotation... Anyone know where he's from?

[Demosthenez]

Barbara Boxer is a dumb anti-military biotch. She dont surprise me.

She wanted to feel big and pull rank. I mean, hell, she a Senator. The only people who want to do things like become Senator tend to be incredibly arrogant, self satisfied pricks.

[TheMason]

In the USMC, it is considered ill-form to call anyone just "sir" or "ma'am". It is:
Yes Staff Sergeant.
No Lt. Col.

It is the full title. Only Sergeants are called Sergeants. Staff Sergeants and all other Sergeants are called by their full rank. Even Corporals are called Lance Corporal or Corporal. The reason is they have earned that rank.

In a courtroom you do not refer to the Judge as 'sir', but as 'your honor'.

You do not call an appointed Cabinet Secrety such as the Secretary of the Treasury sir but Mr or Madam Secretary.

Same thing with Congressmen and Senators. They are Mr/Madam Congressman or Senator.

If testifying in front of a legislative panel the proper ettiqutte is to call them Senator.

Yes 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' are titles of respect. But they are generic titles that can be applied to anyone. That is why they are inappropriate in a formal setting.

Even if you are a general. And yes I agree Boxer came of as a bitch, especially since she is known to be anti-military.

But that does not change the fact..
The
One-star General
was
wrong.

[Demosthenez]

- Boxer and her merry band of followers walk into a restaurant.
- They get a spot in the queue to get seated.
- Host comes up and says. . . "Now seating Boxer, party of 5"
- Boxer replies. . . "Thats SENATOR Boxer. I worked very hard to get this title and you must address me as such to keep feeding my tremendous ego."

Stupid bitch. Feinstein and Boxer, I cant believe California keeps electing those two cuntbags.

[Demosthenez]

- Boxer and her merry band of followers walk into a restaurant.
- They get a spot in the queue to get seated.
- Host comes up and says. . . "Now seating Boxer, party of 5"
- Boxer replies. . . "Thats SENATOR Boxer. I worked very hard to get this title and you must address me as such to keep feeding my tremendous ego."

Stupid bitch. Feinstein and Boxer, I cant believe California keeps electing those two cuntbags.