Programming Books? [:

[Cryzabey]

Hello,

In an attempt to not squander another summer, I've decided to take on the challenge of learning a new programming language or two (or at least get my feet wet). I have a fairly decent knowledge of quiet a few languages and have already started with these books:

Learning Visual Basic .NET
- Jesse Liberty

C++ Programming
- Larry Ullman and Andreas Signer

PHP and MySQL For Dynamic Web Sites
- Larry Ullman

It would be greatly appreciated if you could put forth a book suggestion. If you intend to do so, please include the title of the book, the author(s), and the reason you're suggesting the book. Thanks [:

--
In an attempt to curb flaming:

I used NG's search to look for topics similar to this one; however, because the search cannot be used on specific forums, very few of the returned topics were related to what I was searching for.

Also, while google is generally a good source for finding pretty much anything, I would rather have a someone that can vouch for a book's quality and give reason for why it should be bought.
--

[kiwi-kiwi]

I never understood why people buy programming books when there are tons of free tutorials on the internet.
Personally I hate programming books because most of them are too basic and they assume a very low learning curve.

[Wonderful]

Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs by Gerald Sussman

The first chapter compares programming to magic.

[thoughtpolice]

At 6/14/09 11:32 AM, kiwi-kiwi wrote: I never understood why people buy programming books when there are tons of free tutorials on the internet.
Personally I hate programming books because most of them are too basic and they assume a very low learning curve.

And a lot of stuff on the internet is either worthless tripe or just complete and utter bullshit. What's your point?

At 6/14/09 11:54 AM, Wonderful wrote: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs by Gerald Sussman

The first chapter compares programming to magic.

Be wary: SICP was and still is a mainstay in computer literature. Not many books - especially in the programming field - can literally stand on their legs for nearly two decades without any revision, when normally you get 3rd, 4th and 5th editions these days before you can say 'please.' It's a very good book and extremely deep with wide reaching implications, but it is also pretty fucking hard as well, so you may want to try something else like How To Design Programs first.

On the note of programming books, you may like other (seemingly unrelated) books on topics like Logic etc.. Logic I think is particularly easy to learn ('math without numbers,' those college students say) with a lot of real world applicability.

I also recommend you go pick up a book on Scheme/lisp or something while you can - most people tell me the book 'Lisp In Small Pieces' is excellent. It will probably be very 'different', but it will be very mind opening too hopefully, which is good in the end.

[kiwi-kiwi]

And a lot of stuff on the internet is either worthless tripe or just complete and utter bullshit. What's your point?

I'm just wondering why would someone pay for information freely available on the internet

[thoughtpolice]

At 6/14/09 11:49 PM, kiwi-kiwi wrote: I'm just wondering why would someone pay for information freely available on the internet

Because maybe the same quality of information you would find in a book is not available on the internet whatsoever? Like, you know, just maybe the people who write stuff on the internet might sometimes be full of shit and know nothing, and just maybe the people who write books may write really good books because they are incredibly knowledgeable on the matter?

Yes, I know: it's insane to believe there could be bullshit on the internet, and maybe some books cover the literature better.

[zenyara]

PHP and MYSQL Web Development - Welling and Thomson

This book has it all when it comes to PHP and Mysql database and includes a CD of all examples.

You can build your own shopping carts, mailing lists, uploaders, etc.

[Cryzabey]

Thanks for the book suggestions. I've filled my Amazon shopping cart and am currently waiting for a box loaded with knowledge to be delivered at my doorstep. I'll continue checking back for any other suggestions you may have, thanks again.

Comments for individuals are expressed below.

@Wonderful
Timeless, so I've heard. Thanks for the book suggestion [:

@kiwi-kiwi
Ha.

@thoughtpolice
Thanks for the heads up on SICP. I've started on "How to Design Programs", like you suggested, with hopes that SICP will become slightly less daunting. Also, I hadn't even considered non-programming books until you mentioned them. I'll be sure to check up on the ones you suggested, as well as search for books that branch out on the other tangents of programming.

@zenyara.
Nearly 200 customer reviews and 4 1/2 stars on Amazon, not bad. Thanks for the book suggestion [:

[DearonElensar]

The C Programming Language is quite useful if you want to learn some C.

[kiwi-kiwi]

At 6/15/09 01:49 AM, thoughtpolice wrote:

Yes, I know: it's insane to believe there could be bullshit on the internet, and maybe some books cover the literature better.

There is lots of BS on the internet, but you can easily filter it out if not by common sense at least by trial and error.
Also on the quality of information, you're making the assumption that if you pay for something you're going to get a better quality, which is not always correct. Of course the guy that's making the book has to meet a high standard so he can sell the book and make money, but there are other reasons to make comprehensive guides ( for instance if you want people to use you software/programming language ) like adobe labs, msdn. Let's say you're doing some project on .NET what would you rather do, search in a book you read or go to msdn?

And as a conclusion. I am under the impression that programming isn't something you learn from books, you want to program, you have to stay in front of the compilers and try everything out, you just need a starting point and for that the internet is good enough

[thoughtpolice]

At 6/15/09 03:22 PM, kiwi-kiwi wrote: There is lots of BS on the internet, but you can easily filter it out if not by common sense at least by trial and error.

You can certainly spot erroneous information on the internet. 'easily' however, is not always the case. Also, you make the assumption that these erroneous pieces of information are things like API references or syntax examples or something I think, when that's not the point. An article can have perfectly correct, working code written in it, and still misrepresent ideas and information in a way that is stupid.

It's not simply that black and white, I'm afraid.

Also on the quality of information, you're making the assumption that if you pay for something you're going to get a better quality, which is not always correct.

When did I ever say you always get better information from books, because you pay for them? I don't believe I ever did.

Of course the guy that's making the book has to meet a high standard so he can sell the book and make money, but there are other reasons to make comprehensive guides ( for instance if you want people to use you software/programming language ) like adobe labs, msdn.

MSDN and a book on a specific topic or idea are not the same thing. There is a huge difference between API/library documentation on how to create a popup window, and things like actual written material that's about a particular subject of interest like such as artificial intelligence, or mechanized computer logic and theorem proving.

Let's say you're doing some project on .NET what would you rather do, search in a book you read or go to msdn?

This is a straw man argument. See above.

And as a conclusion. I am under the impression that programming isn't something you learn from books, you want to program, you have to stay in front of the compilers and try everything out, you just need a starting point and for that the internet is good enough

I never said programming is something you learn from books. I never said you should spend more time with books than in front of the compiler. I am merely pointing out that disregarding ALL books just because "the internet is there and free" or "some books are bad" is a pretty stupid conclusion to draw.

[Xenolithic]

At 6/14/09 10:43 AM, Cryzabey wrote: It would be greatly appreciated if you could put forth a book suggestion. If you intend to do so, please include the title of the book, the author(s), and the reason you're suggesting the book. Thanks [:

Before I actually suggest my book, I have to say: THANK YOU! From the bottom of my black little heart, thank you. That was, and I'm being completely honest here, the best starting topic on any forum on Newgrounds I've ever seen.
1.) You typed properly.
2.) You used paragraphs.
3.) You were polite.
4.) You told us what you already had.
5.) You told us almost exactly what you wanted. The only thing you didn't say was what field of programming you were really looking for. Whether actual programs, or web-based programming.

But, by looking at the books you already had, I don't think it matters either way.

Anywho, the book I recommend to you is:

Absolute C++ (Second Edition)
- Walter Savitch

I recommend this book to you because I really took a lot from reading and using it. I have the book in front of my as I type this, and occasionally while typing this, I flip through trying to remember why I liked it so much, so I can tell you, as well.

First of all, it explains how certain functions work. The book does that exceptionally well, actually. Second, it has some pretty nice color-coated sections. Such as the green sections. If you see a green box, it's clear that it's a "self-test". It also says it at the top of the box, but never mind that. It gives full code examples for you to try out, and to see how things work.

I could go on, but I'm sure I'm boring you by now. And, considering how long I've taken to write this post because I've been getting side tracked up the ass, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the page timed out by now.

*Copies this post just in case*

[Never-One]

If you want to get started on some C++ now before your books arrive, here's a link to an online book.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner /cc305129.aspx
I still prefer my own books to it for when I need to refresh myself on anything, but it's not a bad resource and should get you started.

[Pinoyguy75]

If you really want to learn a programming language, then I suggest java. It's the same as c++, but in a different format. People do complain about the big library java has built in, but a lot of it comes in very handy when developing Graphical User Interfaces and a lot of methods (or functions) built in various classes, so you don't have to write code for a bunch of the little things (all of which is provided on the java website called "java docs" with easy navigation to help you find a class of a method you need). After learning Java transitioning to c++ will be fairly easy, it will just be a matter of getting use to a different format (syntax). The book I'm using works really well.

Introduction to Java Programming, Seventh Edition, Y. Daniel Liang

The first 10 chapters deal with Object Oriented Design, which is the same place you'll start at with c++ and from there the beginning of the book has a chart that maps out which chapters after the first 10 that you need for each individual chapters. It's fairly straight forward and and some chapters the map skips, so you don't have to go through the whole book. The book provides a website that contains answers to review questions and half of the programming exercises. It also has self-tests, so you'll have plenty of to truly test your knowledge. Plus there are plenty of java forums and to help you out. Whatever you choose, I wish you luck and this piece of advise...

Take this seriously or make sure this is something you really want to do, because like math or music you can't just learn the material, you have to practice and practice and when you do become proficient it's still trial and error when developing code/programs.
So good luck and I wish you a safe journey!

[kiwi-kiwi]

At 6/15/09 03:50 PM, thoughtpolice wrote:

You can certainly spot erroneous information on the internet. 'easily' however, is not always the case. Also, you make the assumption that these erroneous pieces of information are things like API references or syntax examples or something I think, when that's not the point. An article can have perfectly correct, working code written in it, and still misrepresent ideas and information in a way that is stupid.

It's not simply that black and white, I'm afraid.

Ok, you've had me there

MSDN and a book on a specific topic or idea are not the same thing. There is a huge difference between API/library documentation on how to create a popup window, and things like actual written material that's about a particular subject of interest like such as artificial intelligence, or mechanized computer logic and theorem proving.

I was thinking this topic was going to stay on learning how to program in a new language, in which case if you look at some parts of msdn you will see they are structured just like a book, it just differs by the volume of text

I never said programming is something you learn from books. I never said you should spend more time with books than in front of the compiler. I am merely pointing out that disregarding ALL books just because "the internet is there and free" or "some books are bad" is a pretty stupid conclusion to draw.

I never said I disregard ALL books because the internet is there and is free, I'm just saying I like to keep books as a last resort in case the internet fails to provide an adequate answer (I don't think I could ever learn math off the internet for instance)

Also this seems to be a matter of preference, I'm going to stop here and apologize for bringing this up.

[Cryzabey]

Wow, guys. I'll try to respond with my opinions on your book suggestions as soon as I can, but with the number of books being suggested, it may take me a while to make my way through them. I've set a pace for myself of roughly forty pages a day. I figure much more than that, and I won't take in or remember as much information. (I take notes on and practice the material in those forty pages.)

@DrearonElensar.
Thank you for the book suggestion; however, your book suggestion does raise a couple of questions. At the risk of sounding ignorant:

- How widely used is C?
- Has C++ or any other languages impeded the usage of it?
- And what applications is it typically used for?

@Xenolithic.
Haha, thank you. Unfortunately, as much as I appreciate your praise, I don't see myself as being worthy. For example, the majority of the contributors in the Programming Forum produce high quality posts that rival and usually surpass mine. Also, I'm afraid closer inspection of my grammar usage would unveil a number of unruly holes ;)

But I digress. Thank you for your book suggestion. The passion with which you described it has guaranteed its place in my Amazon shopping cart. I can't wait until it arrives so I can witness first hand the awesomeness it supposedly secretes.

@Never-One
Thank you. Everyone loves a Free good reference ;)

@Pinoyguy75
Thank you for the book suggestion, as well as the timeless gift of wisdom. I wholeheartedly intend to develop my programming knowledge and skills for quiet some time to come. Entering college fairly soon, I plan to pursue courses that will lead to an eventual degree in something computer programming related.

As far as your book suggestion goes, I'll definitely look into it. The reasons for which you suggested it make a lot of sense, and it seems a great place to start for good foundation in not only one language, but many.

[DearonElensar]

At 6/18/09 05:03 PM, Cryzabey wrote: @DrearonElensar.
Thank you for the book suggestion; however, your book suggestion does raise a couple of questions. At the risk of sounding ignorant:

- How widely used is C?
- Has C++ or any other languages impeded the usage of it?
- And what applications is it typically used for?

Hmm, it's not that widely used anymore, so called C based languages (C++ and C# being obvious ones) have long ago "taken over".
Still it has it's niche uses, it's a much smaller language than C++ (there is no OOP for example) and the others that followed it.
This means that you both have to do more work, but also retain more control over how it works (again, this is usually not needed).
And the "program" that uses the most C that i can think of right is now the Linux kernel.
Anyway i think C is worth learning because it's such a (relatively) small language, it's low level and there are lots of languages that were "inspired" by it.

[Xenolithic]

At 6/18/09 05:03 PM, Cryzabey wrote: Haha, thank you. Unfortunately, as much as I appreciate your praise, I don't see myself as being worthy. For example, the majority of the contributors in the Programming Forum produce high quality posts that rival and usually surpass mine. Also, I'm afraid closer inspection of my grammar usage would unveil a number of unruly holes ;)

While this is true, I haven't been here long, so I probably haven't seen what you've seen. I'm just congratulating you on the best first post thatI'veseen.

But I digress. Thank you for your book suggestion.

You're very welcome, my good man.

Also, do you realize you can do multiple replies like this in one post? Instead of doing "@Username," click reply to a post, copy what's already in the box, go back to the topic page, click another post to reply to, and paste what you have. Reply to both, and post.

At 6/18/09 05:03 PM, Cryzabey wrote: Haha, thank you.

This is just a test that -should- work. :X

[fatape]

good stuff in here, thanks guys

[IsTehErreip]

[Not op] Thank you to everyone on here, you unknowingly helped me too