America should support Palestine!

[Ranger2]

Instead of supporting the terrorist regime of the Israeli Jews, America should support the struggling freedom fighters in Palestine.

Hamas is always attempting to build strong, friendly ties with the U.S and the West. Except for holding "Death to America" rallies in the streets, and even showing videos showing their hatred for the West and America, they're pretty much friendly neighbors.

I believe that America should also send humanitarian aid to Hamas so they that can distribute it to the people evenly. The problem with poor Hamas, is that they don't get any food or supplies from their neighbors. All they get are boatloads of Qassam rockets and bombs to fight the Israelis on Palestinian land, so you can see how they are suffering from lack of support.

Support Palestine and support our Jihad!

[satanbrain]

go away you anti-Semitic.

[dySWN]

At 6/12/09 12:44 AM, satanbrain wrote: go away you anti-Semitic.

I take it you're missing the obvious satire here.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

right right so we should support terrorists who kill innocent civillians and use them for human shields? and attacking a US ally (IE Israel) unprovokingly I highly doubt this will happen.

[Me-Patch]

It's like watching a bugzapper.

But yeah, fuck hamas. Long live Isreal.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

yeah its Hamas that's the problem muslims have less rights and opprotunities in Palestine than they do in Israel.

[aviewaskewed]

*blinks*

Oh...this is one of THOSE topics. I'll just sit back and enjoy the lols then.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

plus Israel has a better human rights record and a higher GDP

[killxp]

You guys, you all know he isn't serious right?...... Because now I can't tell if your replies are serious or just sarcasm.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/12/09 03:15 AM, killxp wrote: You guys, you all know he isn't serious right?...... Because now I can't tell if your replies are serious or just sarcasm.

were trying to keep it serious (well I am) so the thread doesn't get locked/deleted.

[killxp]

At 6/12/09 03:22 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 6/12/09 03:15 AM, killxp wrote: You guys, you all know he isn't serious right?...... Because now I can't tell if your replies are serious or just sarcasm.

were trying to keep it serious (well I am) so the thread doesn't get locked/deleted.

Ok. Can you post links to where it shows the GDP of the nations and from what you deduced that Israel has a better human rights record? Late.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/12/09 03:28 AM, killxp wrote:

At 6/12/09 03:22 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 6/12/09 03:15 AM, killxp wrote: You guys, you all know he isn't serious right?...... Because now I can't tell if your replies are serious or just sarcasm.

were trying to keep it serious (well I am) so the thread doesn't get locked/deleted.

Ok. Can you post links to where it shows the GDP of the nations and from what you deduced that Israel has a better human rights record? Late.

Soure CIA Factbook

GDP (purchasing power parity):

$200.7 billion (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 53
$193.2 billion (2007)
$183.3 billion (2006)
note: data are in 2008 US dollars
GDP (official exchange rate):

$188.7 billion (2008 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:

3.9% (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 112
5.4% (2007 est.)
5.1% (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):

$28,200 (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 49
$27,600 (2007 est.)
$26,700 (2006 est.)
note: data are in 2008 US dollars
GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 2.7%
industry: 31.7%
services: 65.6% (2008 est.)

Human rights in Israel

there you go.

[Bolo]

America should remain neutral in the region, providing humanitarian aid to those that require it, on both sides of the ideological crevasse, but giving military aid to neither. Both sides are guilty of committing what can be described as heinous crimes in the name of their respective countries and religions, and to choose either would be to give approval to the belligerent actions of one or the other country, and thus incite the anger of the other, whilst sacrificing the moral high ground. We should never have gotten ourselves entangled in their politics in the first place; Harry Truman's most egregious error.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

we give aid to israel and they give it to us.

[Bolo]

At 6/12/09 03:46 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: we give aid to israel and they give it to us.

How is that exactly? What does a country that is essentially a barren and blood-spattered desert have to offer a country with 43.5 times the population, 85.5 times the GDP, the largest and most powerful military in the world by orders of magnitude, which exists on the other side of the planet and is perfectly capable of defending itself?

Israel is black hole into which US military funding is channeled, and it's ridiculous for us to presume that we can claim any sort of neutrality in Middle East policy; that we can claim to broker any sort of solution to the violence, when we clearly have chosen the side we want to win the theological war over there.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/12/09 04:01 AM, Bolo wrote:

At 6/12/09 03:46 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: we give aid to israel and they give it to us.

How is that exactly? What does a country that is essentially a barren and blood-spattered desert have to offer a country with 43.5 times the population, 85.5 times the GDP,

lets see its products not to mention some of the weapons that the US military uses are from israel:
Main industries high-technology projects (including aviation, communications, computer-aided design and manufacture, medical electronics, fiber optics), wood and paper products, potash and phosphates, food, beverages, and tobacco, caustic soda, cement, construction, metal products, chemical products, plastics, diamond cutting, textiles and footwear

the largest and most powerful military in the world by orders of magnitude, which exists on the other side of the planet and is perfectly capable of defending itself?

israel has Compulsary service for every male in the military and with US grade weapons and training makes it pretty good despite its nations small size.

Israel is black hole into which US military funding is channeled, and it's ridiculous for us to presume that we can claim any sort of neutrality in Middle East policy; that we can claim to broker any sort of solution to the violence, when we clearly have chosen the side we want to win the theological war over there.

that's your opinion even though Israel is a recoginized state and that its always under attack politically or literally plus its the only real ally we have in the middle east

[Bolo]

At 6/12/09 04:34 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: lets see its products not to mention some of the weapons that the US military uses are from israel:
Main industries high-technology projects (including aviation, communications, computer-aided design and manufacture, medical electronics, fiber optics), wood and paper products, potash and phosphates, food, beverages, and tobacco, caustic soda, cement, construction, metal products, chemical products, plastics, diamond cutting, textiles and footwear

You just copypasta'd that from the world factbook, but ignoring your plagiarism, how much of that is vital or even a significant part of the United States balance of trade? It turns out, Israel is ranked 23 on our list of trading partners, which puts it securely below Nigeria, Malaysia, Singapore and Ireland, and just above Thailand and Iraq. No doubt, it is directly because of the extensive US patronage that Israel is insanely prosperous, for the tiny and relatively new country that it is.

Without the importation of military resources from the US, and the exportation of certain base materials to the US, Israel would probably have suffered and economic collapse. But exclusive economic favoritism of Israel at the expense of the countries around it is a fundamental flaw in our foreign policy, and I would venture to say that this flaw is a large contributor to Muslim hatred of the US, and subsequent terrorist activities.

the largest and most powerful military in the world by orders of magnitude, which exists on the other side of the planet and is perfectly capable of defending itself?

israel has Compulsary service for every male in the military and with US grade weapons and training makes it pretty good despite its nations small size.

But the question I posed was specifically what does Israel have to offer the United States in the form of, as you phrased it, "aid," that it cannot glean from other countries? Israel is small and to be frank it is relatively barren of natural resources. It ranks 70th -- far below the US and all of the other middle eastern nations -- in Oil exportation. It has zero natural gas deposits. Israel ranks 47 for imports, and 50 for exports in the world indicating a negative balance of trade.

that's your opinion even though Israel is a recoginized state and that its always under attack politically or literally plus its the only real ally we have in the middle east

Who ever said anything about Israel's legitimacy as a state? I never even mentioned that. Regardless of Israel's legitimacy or status, they do not deserve a special trade alliance with the United States that is not afforded to the other countries of the middle east who, incidentally, are more resource-rich than Israel itself. My main qualm is not with Israel but with the US favoritism of Israel in trade, in relation to its equally-deserving neighbors who are mostly angry because of our favoritism of Israel in the first place.

[simonshragna]

Not only is Israel an approved country, so is palestina. The only country in the world who denies it.
The UN decided that the country, on which the israelian and palestinian people now live, should be split into TWO different countries, but Israel conquered the palestinian part, and the only country who supported Israel was the USA. So, it should be fair if the land should be split in half, and without colonies of Israel in Palestina, and just as it was promised to be by the UN, and that America should stop supporting Israel no matter what.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/12/09 06:05 AM, simonshragna wrote: Not only is Israel an approved country, so is palestina. The only country in the world who denies it.

not true Iran does not recogonize Israel.

[AapoJoki]

USA should definitely support the Palestinian people, by defending them FROM Hamas. The goal of Hamas is to maximize the civilian casualties of Israeli attacks, so they can polish their own image and gain more credibility for their hateful anti-Israel propaganda.

However, Israel is not without fault either. By resorting to excessive use of force, Israel is playing right into Hamas's hands.

yes, I understood that the OP was being sarcastic, but I just wanted to say my opinion

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 6/12/09 08:42 AM, AapoJoki wrote: USA should definitely support the Palestinian people, by defending them FROM Hamas. The goal of Hamas is to maximize the civilian casualties of Israeli attacks, so they can polish their own image and gain more credibility for their hateful anti-Israel propaganda.

the only problem with Hamas is they were democratically elected.

[SonicSheep]

At 6/12/09 09:20 AM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

the only problem with Hamas is they were democratically elected.

That hasnt stopped the US before...

[Penquin11]

what are u smoking man, the thing is that the current state of the area produces a situation in which supporting palestine would be non beneficial to the US in terms of economic benefit, Diplomacy, ect. This stems from the simple fact that palestine is not stable, supporting the regimes or people there would be extremely similar to supporting some sort of warlord that owns territory, as that is the actual situation. Furthermore while Isreal has once again over stepped its boundries it is actually helping america, as it is making palestine one less threat for america to deal with. Plus now is not the time to abandon a close ally. While the situation looks like it has a simple solution at first we must look to the past and look at events that unfolded because of impulsive support of an unstable area. Such as the support of Rwanda by the French in the 1990s. Not to mention the USAs history with irrational and impulsive decisions to support unstable areas it is easy to say that it will be safer for the US to just stick on the sidelines for this one

[Tancrisism]

He is a sort of anti-Semite, since Arabs are Semitic.

[adrshepard]

At 6/12/09 05:28 AM, Bolo wrote: ...exclusive economic favoritism of Israel at the expense of the countries around it is a fundamental flaw in our foreign policy, and I would venture to say that this flaw is a large contributor to Muslim hatred of the US, and subsequent terrorist activities.

So the Muslims believe that they are incapable of prospering through their own merits? That Father America has an obligation to help them?

There's no other explanation for what you're saying since the US doesn't impede economic development in the Middle East as a rule. If anything, our involvement has encouraged it, even in cases where you would morally disapprove.

But the question I posed was specifically what does Israel have to offer the United States in the form of, as you phrased it, "aid," that it cannot glean from other countries?

Airbases. Without Israel our capability in the region would be almost entirely dependent on Arabic nations. We'd only have carriers in the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean, and even then we'd have to get permission to use countries' airspace.

Regardless of Israel's legitimacy or status, they do not deserve a special trade alliance with the United States that is not afforded to the other countries of the middle east who, incidentally, are more resource-rich than Israel itself.

Alliances are ours to make as we please. To say that nations can only make alliances for certain purposes is simply ignorant.

[aviewaskewed]

At 6/12/09 09:34 AM, SonicSheep wrote: That hasnt stopped the US before...

I'm not so sure about that actually. Saddam as I recall was not a democratically elected leader, he was totalitarian we supported. We usually tend to turn on the totalitarians because that's easy to justify to the masses because the big mantra we can always fall back on when all other reasons and excuses fail is "we just want to give freedom and democracy to a region". It's a slippery line if we go over there and drop Hamas because then it can very easily be pointed out that we can't really use that excuse anymore since we attacked and toppled a democratically elected government. The only way I see us going after Hamas is we'd need to be able to DIRECTLY link Hamas to a terrorist attack on American soil, or at least american interests. But American soil would probably be better since it seems to me that while the government is willing to intervene abroad, joe public is still a bit of an isolationist and doesn't buy the idea of us having foreign adventures unless it's something like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. Where it's very clear we got attacked, and now we need to go punish the evil bastards what did it.

[Sajberhippien]

At 6/12/09 11:39 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 6/12/09 09:34 AM, SonicSheep wrote: That hasnt stopped the US before...

I'm not so sure about that actually. Saddam as I recall was not a democratically elected leader, he was totalitarian we supported.

However, the US has been involved in actions against Chavez, and right now seems quite close to a major brawl with Ahmenijad, both democratically elected. Or as democratically elected as exists in their respective regions, since they do have SOME problems. But Iran is far more democratic than Saudi Arabia, with which you have good diplomatic relationships.

[Idiot-Finder]

At 6/12/09 01:32 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: *blinks*

Oh...this is one of THOSE topics. I'll just sit back and enjoy the lols then.

The memory gave it away.

[CousinIt]

I'm kind of confused.
your post says you support Palestine,but your signature says otherwise.

[Idiot-Finder]

At 6/13/09 04:01 PM, CousinIt wrote: I'm kind of confused.
your post says you support Palestine,but your signature says otherwise.

That's the point of the joke, read the whole thing.

His previous thread's funnier though.