Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 10/13/09 11:31 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: God shut the fuck up david.

MODS NEED TO BE MORE STRICT.

FAAAAAAAR MORE.

That is the only true complaint worthy of being considered.

If thats supposed to be funny then im not laughing, sure they can be more strict, When theyre dealing with complete idoits who still havent earned anything about being banned the first time.

When things get really tense, then ill support your complaint, but for now things are a little quiet, which is good, so theres no need for anyone to get strict off of.

you dont need a bazooka to get rid of a fly, metaphorically.

MODS need to give a clear reason why their banning you should you get banned.
I got banned for telling someone they were posting a thread in the wrong Forum, and wasn't given a clear reason why.

At 10/13/09 11:45 AM, ZOMGALIENS wrote: MODS need to give a clear reason why their banning you should you get banned.
I got banned for telling someone they were posting a thread in the wrong Forum, and wasn't given a clear reason why.

I agree, not everyone should desrve the iron fist of eternal pain for fun, not everyones a troll who deserves to be banned.

at least investigate a little bit first before taking action.

Anyone found harassing any user (mods are users too) in this thread regardless of will face a 3 day ban from me.

Is it just me, or have moderators been going a little overboard on deleting threads?

At 10/13/09 03:05 PM, Alex12345269 wrote: Is it just me, or have moderators been going a little overboard on deleting threads?

The weird thing is that most of these threads criticize the mods and/or Newgrounds...

At 10/13/09 04:13 PM, ertysproductions wrote:

At 10/13/09 03:05 PM, Alex12345269 wrote: Is it just me, or have moderators been going a little overboard on deleting threads?

The weird thing is that most of these threads criticize the mods and/or Newgrounds...

a vast majority of the threads that are deleted are utter shit/spam/advertising which probably have fewer than 2 or 3 views total when we delete them, which means that for the most part, you never even see them.

criticizing the mods by making a new thread to complain is against the rules

At 10/13/09 03:05 PM, Alex12345269 wrote: Is it just me, or have moderators been going a little overboard on deleting threads?

Yeah, if they were funny it'd be better to just lock them for the future.

I feel like there's way too much defensiveness when it comes to discussing bans, rules, and moderation from both mods and users.

I can't speak for every instance, but if you've been banned, the moderator who banned you probably had a reason for doing so. Whether or not you agree with that reason doesn't matter, the point is that that moderator is just doing his or her job. If you have questions or concerns about it, confront the specific moderator in question about the issue through PM's and do it in a polite and civil fashion.

People need to realize that bans aren't the end of the world. If you get banned from the BBS for a week, so what? There are other things you can be doing with your time, so why make a big deal of it? This goes for getting your thread locked, as well. Getting your thread locked is a hint to you that those types of threads aren't acceptable here. Again, you may not agree with it, but it's not your prerogative to claim otherwise. So, if you have a question or concern, there's no reason to be overly defensive about it. You can argue your points respectfully, but there's no reason to say things like "OH MODERATOR X IS A FUKKIN NAZU."

Insults and defensive bitching will get you absolutely nowhere and it makes it all that much harder for the mods that are just trying to do their jobs. The worst case scenario of debating the issue respectfully should be that your ban doesn't get lifted. Big deal.

But, this respectfulness goes both ways. To abide by gumOnShoe's warning, I won't name specific instances, but I will say that I have seen some cases where mods reply to users in a very disrespectful and defensive manner. I understand that it must be a stressful job to be dealing with arrogant, self-important teenaged brats hiding behind the anonymity of the internet to be internet tough guys day in and day out, but that's the responsibility that mods take on when they accept the job.

I also understand that it's very tempting to reply arrogantly to the arrogance of another, but that's just not a good way of dealing with the situation especially if you're a role model. Now, it would be easier for me to get this point across if I were to give examples, but I abstain. My point is that if mods want to attempt to stop users from being disrespectful to them, they need to abstain from wording their arguments in ways that are disrespectful to the users. Working insults into your arguments isn't going to help the situation. To a third party it's a very amusing to watch, but it just escalates the situation far beyond where it should end. A very good example of that is how people in this thread, in other threads, and very much so in places outside the BBS are arguing and complaining about this issue incessantly. They complain that the mods act disrespectfully and in what seems to be a biased manner and that creates an absurd level of unneeded tension. And, in a lot of cases, what the users assume to be the case, such as "mod x is biased against thread type x," isn't even the reality of it, but no one can see that because there's not enough respectful dialog.

And I can tell you from a regular's perspective that it's not just the rowdy, rule breaking users that express thoughts like this outside of the forums. There are many, many people who don't have an extreme passion for the issue, but they are unhappy with it or other issues regarding the mods at one level or another. And, none of those issues can be resolved until there's a mutual level of respect between the users and the mod team.

Also think, if you have the urge to act disrespectfully towards disrespect, then you can be sure that that's the exact same case for the users. It's hard to bitch about stone cold straight logic without looking like a fool. It's extremely easy to argue with defensive arguments loaded with insults (even though the arguments may have some logic in them) and get the majority of the userbase on your side. Because, when moderators do throw out insults in response to users, they look more abusive then when users return the same kind of response. It just perpetuates the exact us and them attitude that we're all trying to eliminate.

We need to stop insulting each other, we need to stop being defensive about our opinions, and we need to be willing to have an open dialog about things that have happened in a way where we're attempting to look for a resolve to the tension and not just the end of the conversation.

You know what the BBS really needs? More BlueHippo.

But in all seriousness, the only reason I'm hardly on anymore is because there seems to be to many kids or just immature users. Mostly using old memes and just being annoying.

It also seems that there isn't as many clever users on anymore.

Nothing mods can do except crack down and ban dumb asses.

When I came to the BBS, the first thing I noticed was the vast population of teenagers and kids. I tried to merge with the crowd, listen to others, have fun or just know new people. I got my first ban. OK, I broke some rules. Searching more thoroughly I found some (few) mature and understandable ppl. I actually like a good thread who we can express ourselves without insults or sarcasm, just like a good conversation, both nowadays hard (but not impossible) to find.
But lately these and other threads have fallen into a never ending fight for who pisses farther, the posters or the mods. I don't like fights, less stupid fights. Most of the guys I've been reading have grudges against some mods (no need to name them, they've already become awfully popular). I know they do their job and I respect that, but sometimes (maybe the stress of running a BBS full of children, smartasses and stuff) they just behave like they really don't care anymore about the BBS, or just like bullies having fun of those who crosses their paths. I suppose those situations are just a temporary thing, just an adaptation process.
I really loved this site at first sight. Please ppl, don't make me change of mind.

I've decided not to care anymore. Lifes too short and I'm already way over committed into this place. Mods will always do what they want when they want, just as long as they do get punished when they really cock up, that's all really any of us normal users can hope for I think.

At 10/5/09 01:14 AM, Gagsy wrote: A new issue to me, or something anyway that have become more noticeable in the pass week, is the issue on trolls - Or people who claim in their threads to be trolling.

mmmmkay.

I would like to know the mods take on this.

Well I can't speak for anybody else, but I can give you my take.

Real trolling is actually clever and can be funny, the quickest examples I can personally think of are Dickneck and that time MadCow made that thread about being a girl who was purposely trying to put on weight. The latter was a goldmine actually.

Yeah, anything funny I tend to leave alone, where I tend to hang out, like politics, it's usually pretty clear what's going on if the person displays a modicum of common sense.

Anyway, do mods take trolling or attempts to troll seriously? I know the threads I mentioned both ended in locks which was right, after the funny had worn off, but lately I've been seeing so many threads which are just down right trying to bait users - which yes do tend to get locked, but also what appear to be regular threads, but then the OP gets abuse or too many questions back at him about his thread, too many insults, too many people disproving what he's saying and turning on him, and then he'll turn around and basically reply with "I'm trolling you."

I don't like the kind of trolling your mentioning. The idiots cruising the board looking to start a fight, which is what the trolling rule says it is there to prevent. I don't like watching people flame each other for page after page, but I've found the issue can get tricky. See, if it were totally up to me, those people would be shut down double quick, but it's not. I don't just mean that from a "I'm a functionary of the show runners here" but I mean I have gotten flack from THE COMMUNITY at times over my attempts to shut obvious trolls down. Some people do actually want to debate with, or argue with legitimate trolls, they don't WANT a mod to step in and say "no, this person is a sack of crap, do not engage". So I have more been pushing users to be smart and if they don't like trolls, don't reply to or feed them. If a troll can't get anyone to play with, they go away. If people want to feed trolls and engage them in threads, and it's a significant sample of people responding to the thread I tend to feel like I have to go with the will of the responders there. In the end we want people to have fun on NG, and for some people that is fun, for you it might not be.

The mods can't always be handling these things to everyone's satisfaction because not everyone agrees on a satisfactory solution. So if you don't want trolls around, the best steps are to not reply to the troll, and contact a mod and see what we might be able to do about it. But if you see a thread where the users are happily engaging the troll, you're best bet is to simply vacate that thread and move on. Some people seem to actively WANT the trolls here.

I see this as a cop out. I think users see this response as a way of saving face, to try and save themselves some dignity for making shit topics and getting abuse, or maybe they are trolling, either way, both are things I know I'd like to see less of on this forum. Fun topics are good, but serious discussions can be just as entertaining. I don't want to have to worry about "Is this user serious or not?" when I read their topic, and I swear sometimes it feels that way.

Real trolls tend to be pretty easy to spot in my opinion. I can think of two or three serial trolls off the top of my head and to be honest, unless the userbase in great numbers rises up and stops replying to them and tells me they don't want them here, they will not be banned or disciplined by me because I tend to get flak for doing so, or asking people to stop responding to them. I try to go by the will of the people, so if the majority wants to encourage and engage idiots that are borderline about their posting, then I'm going to let them until it goes over the border and a rule is broken.

Yes, you can generally know troll topics from the title itself, how's it's laid out even from the user posting it, but the troll label comes out too much. I think I've heard people refer to me as a troll at least twice this week, which is just fucking bizarre. I don't troll, I just type what I feel like, it serves no greater proper, just me getting my feelings across, and I'd hate to wrongly get labelled that and not have people take seriously what I think in the future, and this works with every user who isn't trying to troll. If they get labelled one on the forums wrongly, it then might affect how we respond to him in other threads. idk.

We can't stop people from calling each other trolls or whatever really. Yes too many people don't know what the word means and it's become a buzzword insult, but there's not much that can be done about it. This sounds like something the community will have to work with us on and we all try to come to a consensus on how we want to deal with that issue. I don't think moderators working alone can solve this problem to people's satisfaction, because all I could see us being able to do to solve it is crack down on it, and people tend to hate our crack downs.

Are mods going to tighten down on troll issues? Or have they? Would like feedback please :(

Well I love your crack avie <3

Thanks for the input.

As far as thread deletes, the default position for a mod is SUPPOSED TO BE deletion of a thread. Locks are supposed to be the rareity, not deleting. So if you're seeing more deleting then locking (which would be hard since ya know...it's a deletion haha) then that just means mods are doing what they're supposed to.

The BBS uses up resources from the servers like everything else on the site does. The BBS is a relatively low traffic area, so we can't be leaving a bunch of locked topics around because it eats up resources which can be used elsewhere on higher trafficked portions of the site. I don't want to make it sound like the BBS or it's regulars should feel like second class citizens, but I think it's important to understand the realities of the situation. The BBS is important and it's a part of NG that people like, but it's just not AS important as something like the portals, so it's going to be the first place cuts and conservative management hits. In short: posts < flash. That's just how it is, so please understand why we will delete far more then lock. Locks to me should only be done on a thread that needs some form of explanation as to why it can't continue onward. Things that are just generating trash should be wiped from the board like excrement from a boot.

At 10/14/09 04:25 PM, Gagsy wrote: Well I love your crack avie <3

Everybody does, sometimes in multiple numbers...*scandolous* <3

Thanks for the input.

Sure, that's what this thread is all about. Better understanding where and when it can be provided.

To clarify all that, a disproportionate amount of you read locked topics over unlocked ones, so if delete suffices, it means ng doesn't have to load the locked topics anymore...

I think most mods (Poozy) are just wwwwwaaaaaayyyyyyy to cocky and impatient. They dont care what you do, if they think you did something stupid, its a ban. I think that either a pm saying something about the ban would suffice, or even a pm from the mod asking what you did.

Just my opinion. Please dont ban me!

At 11/2/09 08:36 PM, kman355 wrote: I think most mods (Poozy) are just wwwwwaaaaaayyyyyyy to cocky and impatient. They dont care what you do, if they think you did something stupid, its a ban. I think that either a pm saying something about the ban would suffice, or even a pm from the mod asking what you did.

Just my opinion. Please dont ban me!

Getting banned isn't the end of the world. Just means you fucked up.

At 11/2/09 08:36 PM, kman355 wrote: I think most mods (Poozy) are just wwwwwaaaaaayyyyyyy to cocky and impatient. They dont care what you do, if they think you did something stupid, its a ban. I think that either a pm saying something about the ban would suffice, or even a pm from the mod asking what you did.

Just my opinion. Please dont ban me!

Well my opinion on this is that you should know if you're doing something stupid. And mods usually leave a message about what you did wrong in the ban message, so that take out the PM.

At 11/2/09 08:37 PM, FBIpolux wrote:

At 11/2/09 08:36 PM, kman355 wrote: I think most mods (Poozy) are just wwwwwaaaaaayyyyyyy to cocky and impatient. They dont care what you do, if they think you did something stupid, its a ban. I think that either a pm saying something about the ban would suffice, or even a pm from the mod asking what you did.

Just my opinion. Please dont ban me!

Getting banned isn't the end of the world. Just means you fucked up.

I know, just saying that you should at least know the reason as to your ban if your curious. Unless its absolutely a stupid reason then you deserve another.

I've been banned twice. Longest was a month and the other like 3 days.

Poozy's an alright guy.

I don't agree with some of the bans he gives some people I hang out with but I'm only 13 and he's what, 32? He's 19 and 363 days older than me. I know if he were to tell me "Hey, this guy was banned for __________" then I'd understand and be on my merry way. Just because he doesn't explain to YOU why someone else was banned doesn't mean it was unfair. Have we not learned from SockMyDink that user stories are most definitely biased in 99.9% of problems that occur on the BBS?

At 10/13/09 10:19 PM, Psycho-Pickle wrote:

But in all seriousness, the only reason I'm hardly on anymore is because there seems to be to many kids or just immature users. Mostly using old memes and just being annoying.

This is pretty much how I feel. It's like for every interesting thread there are at least 3 users who appear to be /b/ incarnate and they just ruin everything.

Either that or i'm getting older.

A quick one from me, I'd personally appreciate it if certain users could pipe down on their "stop whining" attitudes towards others in this thread alone. I know I don't have any authority to "instruct" users and to give definite answers and I've been monitoring this thread far too much for a normal human being (I'll get myself checked tomorrow), but I'm still thinking that people have an ability to not receive solely sarcastic comments if they post an issue of value in this thread. Some users could do with some elaboration, but that only requires some gentle reminding, and the user in question can do so. Again, sorry in that I shouldn't be telling people how to post, but this bugs me at different times, to say the least.

I mean, it's like...

It's time to put on make-up,
It's time to dress up right,
It's time to raise the curtain
On the NEWGROUNDS BBS tonight.

I don't like that view, as oddly shaped the reference may seem.

At 11/14/09 04:04 PM, Gasping wrote: And to top the ice cream cone with a bucket of shit, the rule states that according to the forum rules, you're not qualified to host a collab if your batting avg is not at a certain number which is funny because forum moderators do not have ANY JURRISTICTION BEYOND THE FORUM and resorts to making the user confused as hell.

It says you can't make a thread in the Flash forum if it's not high enough. Doesn't mean you can't host one, it means you can't organize it on the flash forum.

At 11/14/09 04:12 PM, Twilight wrote: It says you can't make a thread in the Flash forum if it's not high enough. Doesn't mean you can't host one, it means you can't organize it on the flash forum.

It's also a "soft rule", if you send a PM to a flash forum moderator and explain your intentions and provide proof you're capable then they're happy to approve it, the rule is a pre-emptive avoidance of shit, if you care enough you'd contact a moderator.

I kinda have an idea for the BBS, but yet again it might be stupid. Like you said, I believe users especially new ones will respond better to a warning than just immediate bans. After all, sometimes bans just encourage users to break rules and use alt accounts, and sometimes it encourages them to come back after the ban in "trolling-mode".

Is it possible, for a first time warning, or for minor offences to offer something like a 2 hour suspension whereby the user would ideally have to re-read the Forum rules.

Ideally, it might be worth pursuing a coded solution whereby users can be placed on a probation period whereby if they break a rule they are then forced to re-read the rules which they broke before they can post again. Since this is beyond the mods control I won't go into here.

If I may I just want to raise one small issue about the moderators. Why some will ban you for 1 day if you break a minor rule (let's say for example Backseat modding), but others will issue a 3 or even 5 day ban for the same offence.

Are there not rules or guidelines by which mod's moderate by?

I have seen on Sanjay's post some rules he has set out regarding moderation of the forum, but this doesn't seem to apply 'across the board' if that make sense.

Having said that, I do believe the mod's are doing a good job and any ban they issue is probably in the best interest of the BBs on the whole.

Although I rarely visit/post, I think that instead of a blind lock, a mod should always post in the thread and alert the user to what they have done wrong, and the repercussions if they do it again.

At 11/2/09 08:42 PM, kman355 wrote: I know, just saying that you should at least know the reason as to your ban if your curious. Unless its absolutely a stupid reason then you deserve another.

You can always PM him respectfully about it if you don't understand the reasoning. Not to sound like a cock suck, but mods have a lot of responsibilities and can't be PMing every user they ban. If you don't feel like your ban message was descriptive enough, toss out a PM to the mod that banned you.

At 11/14/09 04:15 PM, citricsquid wrote: It's also a "soft rule", if you send a PM to a flash forum moderator and explain your intentions and provide proof you're capable then they're happy to approve it, the rule is a pre-emptive avoidance of shit, if you care enough you'd contact a moderator.

It's an avoidance of inexperienced flash authors starting collabs, feeling overwhelmed, and then dropping the project completely, I think.

At 11/16/09 08:04 PM, BabiesAteMyDingo wrote: I kinda have an idea for the BBS, but yet again it might be stupid. Like you said, I believe users especially new ones will respond better to a warning than just immediate bans. After all, sometimes bans just encourage users to break rules and use alt accounts, and sometimes it encourages them to come back after the ban in "trolling-mode".

Is it possible, for a first time warning, or for minor offences to offer something like a 2 hour suspension whereby the user would ideally have to re-read the Forum rules.

I feel like a 1 day ban is sufficient. Most of the rules are pretty clear, so I think that new users should have a certain amount of personal responsibility when it comes to posting. If they don't want to get banned, then they should use their common sense. They should lurk for a bit to see what's acceptable, and then if they think what they're about to post is against the rules, they shouldn't post it. And, worst case scenario, a minor infraction by mistake will land them a one day ban which is perfectly reasonable.

If I may I just want to raise one small issue about the moderators. Why some will ban you for 1 day if you break a minor rule (let's say for example Backseat modding), but others will issue a 3 or even 5 day ban for the same offence.

Different moderators' discretion. They're each individuals and have different ideas of how different situations should be handled. There's no clear set guidelines for banning aside from common sense (ie. spamming pornographic images shouldn't get just a 4 day ban and posting in a spam thread shouldn't be given a 30 day ban).

It also depends on the circumstances. If it's a repeat offense, it will probably be given a harsher consequences then a first timer. It also depends on the tone of the post, whether or not the post in question contains other non-offensive content, the context of the post, etc.

At 11/16/09 08:28 PM, Sir-Hank-Frank wrote: See that right there. There's part of the problem. Just because you don't like a thread or don't think it's funny doesn't mean someone else does. Why don't you shut the fuck up and let other people have fun for a change? Sometimes a thread like the one he made can turn into pure comic gold if you give it a chance and not silence any chance of creative responses by locking/deleting it. And even if it still sucks to you, it might be fun for other people.

I think what poozy meant by saying that it sucked was that it had no potential. Not just any picture can be used as a base picture and if the pictures that can't be are turned into threads, those threads are against the rules. There's even a thread posted by a mod about it, saying that the base picture needs to have a certain amount of potential. Many "unqualified" photoshop threads just degenerate into users quarreling about how shitty the base picture is because there's just nothing that can be done to them.

Obviously someone finds it funny because it was posted, but that doesn't mean that it's of acceptable quality for these boards. I'm sure that any base picture could be loaded up with memes and someone would chuckle at it, but that kind of thing just doesn't meet the standards of quality for these boards.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with Poozy's modding, he still has a great deal of forum experience (otherwise he wouldn't be a moderator) and is qualified to judge whether or not a photoshop thread has potential. It's the mods' job to prevent spam and non-constructive bitchfights, which is inevitably how many "unqualified" photoshop threads end.

At 11/16/09 08:04 PM, BabiesAteMyDingo wrote: Is it possible, for a first time warning, or for minor offences to offer something like a 2 hour suspension whereby the user would ideally have to re-read the Forum rules.

Ideally, it might be worth pursuing a coded solution whereby users can be placed on a probation period whereby if they break a rule they are then forced to re-read the rules which they broke before they can post again. Since this is beyond the mods control I won't go into here.

Like you say, these sort of ideas are interesting, but hard to implement unfortunately, for good reason. The staff aren't likely to go out and start inventing wacky new ways of changing the technical stuff behind the BBS when they have lots of projects that are frankly more important, even interesting, from most views. As far as I'm aware (and I think I'm aware - I WENT TO SCHOOL IN THE 2000S), the BBS clock always operates via EST, no matter what time zone you're using NG in, giving any sort of time option a bit of a problem. Like what's already been discussed in this thread, it's something that's unfortunate and can't really be helped at the end of the day. As ever, what I'll push is just a casual reminder of the rules for some, obviously understating things from certain points of view.

Like I say, nice ideas, but they're hard to work practically. Without being a mind-reader, I think this is something the mods have tried to tone down in this thread because... well, it's impossible, really.

If I may I just want to raise one small issue about the moderators. Why some will ban you for 1 day if you break a minor rule (let's say for example Backseat modding), but others will issue a 3 or even 5 day ban for the same offence.

Are there not rules or guidelines by which mod's moderate by?

I have seen on Sanjay's post some rules he has set out regarding moderation of the forum, but this doesn't seem to apply 'across the board' if that make sense.

Rule subjectivity is something that's haunted this thread almost since the beginning. Unfortunately, while Internet forums happen to be built on subjectivity, it's something that can't really be avoided when we start looking at the nitty-gritty. Other examples mentioned in this thread that I went through some time ago for no particular reason include Zerok's rule blog and Forum Rules, Clarified for the curious.

While I'm not a mod, the general rules that we see at the top of each board are telling each mod how to go about their business (this gets iffy in certain cases, specifically the f-word problem, see sig) and as far as I see it, the additional blogs and threads you'll see around should be, erm, kept in mind shall we say, if you want to avoid being banned from the BBS. Most of the "hidden rules" are, at the end of the day, common sense: don't just post "/thread", because that's silly anyway. More sketchy ones can indeed be learnt by experience, but it's probably healthiest in when taking care of a/an confused/angry/hungry user, to politely point them in the direction of useful resources like the sorts of things linked above and mentioned by you.

Like I say, universal majigs on the Internet are hard to pull off... but in my experience, it's more important to have this general idea than it is to have an explanation of every single rule that ever single moderator must work to every time that rules is broken.

My thoughts, though this is red red wine in an '80s style, red red wine in a modern beat style maybe.