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At 6/1/09 11:26 AM, Zerok wrote:

There are a few cases where I could let it slide, like if you're (maturely) talking about what someone else said or times like this thread where we're actually discussing it, i.e. that 5% of the time when it's not used irresponsibly.

Could i assume that 5% would also include some british users(or whoever actually users the term outside of the UK) when refering to actual smokes? It's very common word to use when refering to needing a smoke "I need a fag" or what have you.

Granted there are those who abuse the word but would you ban a user who used the word even in a normal sense? e.g:

Topic: smoking blah blah blah
Message: "I used to smoke 20 fags a day"

Something along those lines where the user is reffering to a cigeratte and not using it as in insult to anyone or reffering to others as one(in the offensive way). Same would apply to refering to something as gay also since it's become a very common word to use to refer to anything that's crap.

While one can see the difference in what the user means "Shut it you Fag/gay" compared to "my net was being gay for a few weeks and would not work" or "i was craving a fag all day to smoke" would things like that fall in your 5%?

That said i do feel on the issue of what could be done better is maybe some trigger happy mods could read a reply or two when it comes to words like these. Some people ban when they even see the word and are ignorant to what context the user used it in.

For awhile I was visiting the BBS almost everyday, and spending many hours of my day on it. However lately, I have noticed myself becoming detached. I think I have gotten tired of a lot of people drifting off into little clicks or groups of people. I understand this happening on some scale, but to the point where others are not even allowed to join in on the conversation without getting flamed or attacked or even in some cases banned. I will echo what many have probably already said in the aspect that some users can do something, then right after them another user can do the exact same thing and get banned. I it leads to the assumption that its because the first user has a close relationship to a mod.

I am not going to sit here and preach because these things haven't personally happened to me, but seeing these things just wears on me slightly and makes me not truly enjoy myself as I once did.

i tried to say this yesterday but my internet was being a bitch, so i don't think it got through. FUCKING COMCAST.

a standardization of the rules, in my opinion, would exasperate not alleviate the bbs situation. the truth is there are two kinds of spam, funny spam and shit spam. if you say that every time somebody does "x" they get a five day ban, then people will stop doing "x", and the bbs will be void of the instances when "x" is hilarious win. some of the less creative and humorous users might think it's unfair that they get banned for essentially doing the same thing as a more clever, funnier user. tough shit. almost every facet of life works this way. it isn't the mods fault. it's yours for not being better at posting.

I'l admit now, I don't always agree with what yhar has to say, but I think he brings up a good point in questioning why the DVD thread was locked. I hadn't used that thread in a few months, but I liked posting there, and I liked the responses I got. It was really just a bit of innocent discussion about films and TV DVDs, what people wanted to get a hold of on DVD to add to their collection, and more. Sure, there were some +1 posts in there, but I think that's unavoidable in many cases; you can't expect that part of posting to disappear completely in my opinion. The people who posted there often, at least when I were there, weren't doing any harm.

Of course I'm open to explanations on it, since it would simply be stupid of me not to offer the same sort of gesture you guys have been offering me. I don't know if there's been any discussion about that thread amongst you lot as to locking it, like I sensed there has been about similar threads in the past. I'm just saying I can't really find something on it alone. I mean, I'd rather have that one big established thread for people to discuss their collections, ideas, favourite films and so on, than lots of mini threads on the same issue, which people would need to keep looking in to.

***

I read THEJamoke's first post here last night I believe (or earlier today, it seems like a while ago at any rate). I agree with many of the points he makes in that we're, as a group, responsible for what goes down here more so than the mods a large part of the time. I'd advise people to read it: it's over on page nine of this thread.

However, I also think there's the thing about putting too much of importance on bans around here. The amount of bans a user recieves is obviously a quanitfiable figure which may or may not show that same user's enjoyment of the forums in some cases, but I don't think I agree with that 100% of the time. I don't think I've been banned in a while, but I can still pick up on things around the BBS, some of which I've already posted here briefly.

I'll say it again, I think the mods do a good job a large part of the time: they're dedicated, know their way around the place and seem to be decent enough people themselves, most of the time. I don't like to think things I post are stuffy, plugging up people's fun and what-not. I'm just saying, there is a bit of fault on both sides really, and I say that in the nicest way I possibly can.

Yeah, I think I should be posting more... but it's hot today, and I need to learn, not that you're, erm, missing out in any way, heh.

At 6/1/09 01:09 PM, Scarab wrote: I'l admit now, I don't always agree with what yhar has to say, but I think he brings up a good point in questioning why the DVD thread was locked.

I recall that was locked because it had effectively turned into a +1 thread for The Master with him psoting the new DVD's he'd got, or at least that was the perspective of the Mod team. It was decided that if people wanted to update a list-o'-DVD's then they could do it on their userpage.

I also recall seeing some Mod discussion on it at some point.... I think.... my memory could be failing me though. Sunshine does tend to do that to me. I could be talking out of my arse in regards to this as this is only a vague recollection I have. If I'm wrong someone correct me and I'll shut up in future.

Also:

Hai Scarab!

At 6/1/09 01:39 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I recall that was locked because it had effectively turned into a +1 thread for The Master with him psoting the new DVD's he'd got, or at least that was the perspective of the Mod team. It was decided that if people wanted to update a list-o'-DVD's then they could do it on their userpage.

read through the thread, there was just as much discussion about DVDs going on as it was a place for themaster to dump his list. if he posts it on his "blog", who's going to look? Nobody.

At 6/1/09 12:10 PM, yhar wrote: What I don't get is why the words are disallowed; Who actually takes them seriously? I've never come across someone who is offended by faggot or niggur.

Plenty of people are offended by those words, it's not the words themselves but WHAT they represent and WHY they are said.

At 6/1/09 01:43 PM, TheTrooper5 wrote:

At 6/1/09 12:10 PM, yhar wrote: What I don't get is why the words are disallowed; Who actually takes them seriously? I've never come across someone who is offended by faggot or niggur.

Plenty of people are offended by those words, it's not the words themselves but WHAT they represent and WHY they are said.

I agree, none of the racial slang terms bother me in the least, but it bothers me to see one of those words in every thread. Some people even try to implement them in every one of their posts. It bothers me that these people are taking the time to add an unnecessary racist word in what could be a very intelligent post. Queue the "OMG why you say that", and the race war begins once again.

At 6/1/09 01:40 PM, yhar wrote:

At 6/1/09 01:39 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I recall that was locked because it had effectively turned into a +1 thread for The Master with him psoting the new DVD's he'd got, or at least that was the perspective of the Mod team. It was decided that if people wanted to update a list-o'-DVD's then they could do it on their userpage.

read through the thread, there was just as much discussion about DVDs going on as it was a place for themaster to dump his list. if he posts it on his "blog", who's going to look? Nobody.

Don't forget the CD thread. Which wasn't a +1 dump. It actually takes users time to sit there and think what cds they have and there was discussion about cds. Good way for people to find new music.

At 6/1/09 01:48 PM, Gagsy wrote: Don't forget the CD thread. Which wasn't a +1 dump. It actually takes users time to sit there and think what cds they have and there was discussion about cds. Good way for people to find new music.

There are numerous clubs in C and C dedicated to various forms of music, in terms of finding new music, you jsut go to them, take a look and see whats there,m ask for some advice and voila. Same goes for the DVD thread thinking about it. You could easily start a DVD crew, which would be more condusive to discussion as it doesn;t get every tom dick and harry seeing it and going ' I bought a DVD I'll post my list!', but still gets attention as its a thread and not on userpages.

As for the discussion within that and the DVD thread the level may not have been to standard. Ie the +1 post to proper post ratio was too low. There may have been discussion but not at a level that was satisfactory.

Either way, I wans't involved ( either at all, or very little) with the decision to lock either thread, so all I can offer is conjecture.

At 6/1/09 01:39 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Hai Scarab!

Hi there! I need to pop into Politics more often and as a more active user; I keep missing some of my favourite users around here as a result :P

Thanks for the opinions on the matter anyway, because I can see what you mean. On this matter, I'd be all for some sort of DVD Collection Club, if you guys don't have any qualms with it. I'm sure someone can be dedicated enough to keep it up, and I can see it attracting enough attention anyway. I don't know if there's already anything similar though, I haven't really searched out that one. As you say, it might eliminate the problems of the often-silent fields of the Blogland.

btw, why is this still going? Full of +1s, how is that any better than DVD thread? CD Thread?

At 6/1/09 01:48 PM, Gagsy wrote: Don't forget the CD thread. Which wasn't a +1 dump. It actually takes users time to sit there and think what cds they have and there was discussion about cds. Good way for people to find new music.

I don't know. Over the years, I would occasionally browse the thread and find that it is a +1 dump. There was hardly any discussion, so I kind of regret making the thread.

I'm not going to lie i drift on and off of newgrounds every once in a while usually because of this one thing that always pisses me off and this is it: When you make a topic that is more over serious and/or discussing issues about something that's not just for laughs. I get very fucking frustrated when the very first guy to make a reply post is a total douche bag and basically ruins the whole fucking thread and makes it into a joke.

If yall could tighten up on the first post of certain threads that would be lovely. I realize theres no rules against douche bags but it does get pretty damn annoying.

sorry for the language

At 6/1/09 01:39 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I recall that was locked because it had effectively turned into a +1 thread for The Master with him psoting the new DVD's he'd got, or at least that was the perspective of the Mod team. It was decided that if people wanted to update a list-o'-DVD's then they could do it on their userpage.

I also recall seeing some Mod discussion on it at some point.... I think.... my memory could be failing me though. Sunshine does tend to do that to me. I could be talking out of my arse in regards to this as this is only a vague recollection I have. If I'm wrong someone correct me and I'll shut up in future.

Nope, I remember that discussion, and I remember it going the way you said it did.

I don't have a problem with such threads like that in theory, but if all the posts, or a majority of the posts are "Just bought Punisher: War Zone" "I just bought In Brudges" "I own this honking list of movies" where's the discussion? Where's the benefit? Now if somebody says "I just bought Punisher War Zone and this is what's on the dvd and this is what I thought of it" that opens up more discussion. It's not all that hard to make a post that invites discussion and it doesn't have to be paragraph after paragraph either. It can be short but it's got to have some information for the next guy to discuss something. If it's just "this is my list of movies" it sure seems to say to me "I'm not interested in talking to any of you fuckers about this subject, I just want you to tell me my list of movies is impressive". What good is that really? Go on your blog if all you're interested in is masturbatory stroking from the NG fanbase. The BBS should encourage discussion about a given subject.

At 5/31/09 11:00 AM, Jonas wrote:

What can be improved on the BBS?

promote the interesting posts. if more people post in the interesting threads, the crappy ones will get drowned out.

obviously still delete the garbage threads, but otherwise, let darwinism live. if a thread is interesting, it will be posted in. if it isn't, it'll be ignored.

that, or more horse porn.

At 5/31/09 11:08 AM, Gagsy wrote: Mods not overlooking the rules themselves just because they have mod status.

I mean, if they ban for a certain thing shouldn't they then aim not to do that same thing themselves?

Using terms which are banned on the BBS for example and 'spamming' topics with short one liners which I know I myself have been banned for in the point but I see mods doing it all the time.

Isn't the best way to stop this kind of behavior from the average BBS poster to make sure the mods aren't breaking rules themselves?

Fuck off.

Error - your post was 560 characters in length, 96.79% of which was taken up by quoted text. Please include only the quoted parts that are relevant in your post before trying to post your message again.

At 5/31/09 11:00 AM, Jonas wrote: or is there something you would like to see happen?

A chatting thread!

At 6/1/09 08:32 AM, Grammer wrote:

Because you were disrespectful in the ban messages.

I don't even remember the ban messages anymore verbatim. I remember the first one was because you were asking for a way (a proxy as I recall) to subvert a 4chan ban and I informed you that discussion wasn't allowed here. I seem to recall I incorrectly labeled it as a situation where proxies in general weren't to be discussed. When what I had meant to say was that asking for a proxy and clearly saying "I will use it to violate the terms of another site". I incorrectly labeled the ban message and this caused a misunderstanding. So hey, perfect example for everyone reading this thread to see that mods are only human and sometimes we honestly just goof in how we state our reasoning. But when I get a PM back from you that calls me all these names and other stuff, I like most people do just don't want to listen to the merits of your argument anymore really because I'm just personally disgusted with the way you're coming after me about the whole thing. I made a mistake, it happens, I'm sure you make mistakes too, but if you come to me and say "listen, I think you may have made a mistake, can we go over this?" we can hammer it out and maybe it'll even work out in your favor. But if you come at me with "you're wrong, there's no rule against this, you suck and should be de-modded" don't be shocked that bad things will happen to you, up to and including your bans extended. That goes for everybody. I'm a volunteer, I do this because I love the site and the BBS enough that I want it to be fun, but I'm not here to be treated like garbage or talked to like I'm some horrible person.

"This is why I'm a mod and you're not"

I seem to recall that being in response to some borderline backseat modding (which I occassionally still catch you doing) and you were ripping on my mod skills in public, kind of like now. The initial ban was over a user contacting me about their belief that you were personally attacking them in a thread, I agreed and asked you to stop, in the thread, which is something I tend to do with EVERYONE. Because I have never really gotten a complaint about it I figured nobody had an issue with it and it's a nice permanent way for me to be able to go back and remember if I've asked somebody to stop and makes me feel more justified if I go back and take action. So I can clearly say "well, right here I asked you to stop" and that helps me feel a bit better about the whole thing (I take what I do seriously, and I always try to remember how bad it sucks to keep somebody from being able to go to a place they like). You decided to keep attacking me and telling how wrong I was (noticing a pattern here?) and once again we wound up with the scenario where you got blocked from contacting me, and you're ban extended.

If you act like you're above the law and my judgment is trash (especially since you did so in public) what can you expect to happen? I mean really?

You basically told me you don't have to apologize to me for being rude, but when I apologized I was being "disingenuous". Sure I was. Whatever lets you sleep better at night.

I didn't feel I was rude in the way I handled it, why am I going to apologize if I don't think I'm wrong? Just because YOU thought I was doesn't make it so. I was also honest when I said I thought it was "disingenuous" because the first time ended in apologies, and an agreement that the issue was settled and wouldn't be brought up again, and that was obviously crap (this post further proves it) so I was honest with you about how I felt. I'd like the issue dropped now since while talking about this again I think is hopefully giving the rest of the readers a little insight into how I do things (and maybe by extension how some other mods might do or feel about things) it also borders on us devoting at least a portion of this thread to personal problems we've had in the past that on my end I feel there's no resolution for and no reason to keep dredging up. I don't want to do that as this thread should always be bigger then any one mod, or any users problem with any one mod.

In the end, for me the lesson here is that we (the mods) need to really try and be clear and professional about ban messages (if we're going to try and be funny, it should probably be amusing for everybody, not just to give each other a laugh, which does seem to be an issue), but users have to remember that if they don't understand something, or they feel the mod acted wrong, sending an angry PM filled with name calling and other bad stuff doesn't help your case and does nothing to resolve the situation. It's probably just going to turn the situation from the perspective of "it's just another situation I had to deal with" (which is how I view locks, deletes, and bans) into something a little more personal and make you a user I really don't want to deal with, which then limits you're ability to report things that could be or are legitimate problems on the site.

Reason for ban: User leaving NG, posting privileges no longer needed. 30 day ban.

=============================

It BOGGLES the mind why mods should have the duty/need to ban people forever just because a user has expressed she/he is leaving the bbs.
People change their minds... and even if they dont come back, so what, leave that account open, theres no reason to lock anyone out of their account unless they've done something so malicious that it would be so grossly apocalyptic to have them post on the bbs again.

I've posted that ive quit many times out of frusteration. Doesnt mean ban me forever.

At 6/1/09 05:39 PM, darkness-alt wrote:

At 5/31/09 11:00 AM, Jonas wrote: or is there something you would like to see happen?

A chatting thread!

You mean a thread that we would allow users to spam?
Rethink that.

At 6/1/09 05:57 PM, Spirosgod wrote: A chatting thread!

We have "lounges", which are similar.

if you just want to chat, go to C&C.

Alright let's start with the rules. I'm not complaining about the rules, it makes sense why they're here, but the thing is the rules are scattered amongst Newgrounds. You have the rules for the BBS on all forums yes, but there are also rules in Zerok's News Posts.

I say you should update the rules page so there is no confusion to bans.

Also another is going to be the explanation thread, yeah I bet not many members knew about this Moderator Only Thread. It gives explanations about different rules. This thread should always be on the front page of all forums. Since only moderators can post in it then it would be safe.

This is all I've noticed.

Oh hai.

Another BBS Reg just left.

At 6/1/09 12:10 PM, yhar wrote: What I don't get is why the words are disallowed; Who actually takes them seriously? I've never come across someone who is offended by faggot or niggur.

Paging RedCircle's friend, circa 2006

Have now read the entire thread. some points:

posters need to recognise the rules. i think the quick 1-day "read rules" ban to a new user is brilliantly efficient to those users that we want to keep, and will quite happily ward off most troublemakers.

mods need to keep perspective. this was being done back whilst i was still a mod, but it needs to be recalled today.

also, demod poozy. i cannot see anyone that likes him being a mod, myself included. i don't know why he was modded in the first place, but if he's not caused conflict already, he will do. nip it in the bud.

I don't like how some mods include personal feelings or opinions in their bans.

ex.: "hey random noob, you suck dirty asshole" no ban. "hey random mod, you suck dirty asshole" 5-day ban(?)

At 6/1/09 05:25 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: If it's just "this is my list of movies" it sure seems to say to me "I'm not interested in talking to any of you fuckers about this subject, I just want you to tell me my list of movies is impressive". What good is that really? Go on your blog if all you're interested in is masturbatory stroking from the NG fanbase. The BBS should encourage discussion about a given subject.

I understand that, and I'm all for encouraging discussion in threads; I think more people around here than we think do this often enough anyway. Once or twice I've seen threads from newer users asking how to make a popular thread, and I've generally given the answer that the thread needs enough room for discussion. Of course, the topic itself needs to be appealing for discussion to happen, which is why even though numerous threads may be made on one topic, they consistently remain popular. Anyway, I'm going off track I think.

This is another reason why I'd be interested to see how this particular DVD collection issue played out in C&C form. Guidelines in posting in the club can be made at the start obviously, but I think that since the user base would be pretty specialised, then there would be less need for "masturbatory stroking" there, and a more free-flowing discussion. Eh, it's just an idea really. I just think that something like that would move away from the +1 post nature of General that you guys are trying to deal with a lot of the time, and it wouldn't force people to post things in their blogs where they feel it's just pointless as nothing enjoyable might come out of it. It's basic though, hmm.

I suppose part of what got me talking is EyeLovePoozy's lock message. Of course, he sort of implies why the decision has been made, but what I'm saying is that I wouldn't have bothered to bring it up if I knew exactly why it had been locked. As a film-lover looking to get ideas for future purchases (and other things) myself, I might've asked people to talk about their DVD collections and had my thread locked, with a redirection to the locking of TheMaster's thread. Okay, that's a pretty hypothetical situation, but I would probably still be a little confused. I hope you get what what I mean anyway. I have a small history of making a seemingly different point to the point I set out to make.

At 6/1/09 06:02 PM, Twilight wrote: Oh hai.

Another BBS Reg just left.

Make that two.

I'm not too bothered abouut the moderating team or the standards, just wanted to add my peice over the DVD thread. Several users enjoyed posting there collections and discussing DVD's there, and although it was occasionally a +1 topic, the same could be said for many things. What about AS: Main? Surely that was just a new list each page but with new info added?

Oh, and a club was started but it was quickly deleted. More criticisms over the fact that the mods dont agree with each other. "start a DVD club" "DELETED!"

Although my opinion is worthless to you higher up people (ESPECIALLY those who think nothing of a lot of the users simply because they aren't regulars in the general forum), my advice would be a complete overhaul of the moderation team. I'm guessing several are now inactive but several forums have a lot less moderating than others. Yes there less used, but hell, mods are still needed in them. An overhaul would end the argument of "these old-school mods suck" as well as give a new view over the BBS.

As Vince McMahon says every time the WWE draft comes round "It's time to shake things up again!"

At 6/1/09 06:08 PM, Twilight wrote:

At 6/1/09 06:02 PM, Twilight wrote: Oh hai.

Another BBS Reg just left.

Make that two.

2.5, there's a reason I only post in Wi/Ht forum, the NGPD & the EGB, and nowhere else (namely, General is always a spamthread trap for me. And I picked the threads carefully, but quickly tired of the destroy+ban.)
Hopefully this thread can bring about a few tiny tiny changes in future management of threads, or at least cause some people (on both sides) to take a second look at everything. At the very very least.