At 6/2/09 02:37 PM, Sawke wrote: I think that the general demand here from the majority of the users are that they would like more warnings before bans. Is it that hard to figure out a way to comply with this request? it doesn't sound so difficult to me.

Not really for me, I tend to warn people in a thread if they're doing something wrong to knock it off or deletes and bans will be a comin. It tends to work out good. Some people may or may not be doing that, and of course the problem with a mass system like this is you're talking about asking volunteers to put out more work to remember who they've warned vs. who they haven't. Perhaps we could get liljim at some point to encode a warning system that would work like the ban system insofar as we could press a button and you get a warning PM sent, and then we have it in your history that you received a warning so if you keep up the behavior, we will ban you next time out. But I tend to think the way I do it now where I will either speak with a user in a PM, or I will just make a post in the thread saying "chill out and stop the crap" is fairly effective. But that might just be me being biased cause ya know, it's my idea and my way, haha.

At 6/2/09 02:36 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Insulting or harassing the moderators or administrators.

General Overview
These are the NG Forum rules.

That line you quoted is forum specific. It applies only to insulting or harassing on the BBS, not anywhere else. If mods insist on being right at what they did, I'm pretty sure this thread has failed its objective, if there were any at all.

At 6/2/09 02:53 PM, Jin wrote: General Overview
These are the NG Forum rules.

That line you quoted is forum specific. It applies only to insulting or harassing on the BBS, not anywhere else. If mods insist on being right at what they did, I'm pretty sure this thread has failed its objective, if there were any at all.

Hopefully Wade will pop his head back in, because again, Wade has always made it clear to the mod team that if somebody is harassing us via PM or user page we can extend an existing ban, at least that's what he's told me. Like I say, I don't understand why anybody thinks they should have the right to harass us anyway. You want respect, you should be willing to give it too. I'm also loling at some of the information I get researching some of you guys that are debating about this issue. It's very educational to figure out the motives behind it ;)

Regarding PMs and bans:

I will only lengthen bans for people if they send me death threats over the PM system. I do not do this regularly, and it is last resort to get them to stop before getting Wade to intervene.

I do get death threats--I take those seriously.

That's all I'm going to say.

It's funny because you guys act like you should follow a set protocol or actually have a system on a fucking INTERNET FORUM.

The way I see it, you should go with your gut. This is a monument of information, which is mostly meaningless. It is YOUR responsibility to sculpt this monument into a recognizable statue that could represent SOMETHING a LITTLE bit cool.

But you don't, instead you have rules. Do you realize how apathetic that makes EVERYONE? No one worries, no one cares, there are rules. Oh, I follow the rules, big woop.

I suggest we have no fucking rules at all, or that is to say, I think you should ban people because you WANT to, because you feel like they are hurting the foundation of the aforementioned monument.

This is your culling of information, act like you care, actually do something. I have been here a long time and I have not seen a day go by on this BBS, maybe once or twice, where the threads are actually pruned, where conversation is actually compelling. Maybe it's me, maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

I shouldn't have to.

Grow some fucking balls. Is what I'm saying. People complain? Oh well you know what? Fuck them. You don't need to cater to them, you need to RESTRICT them even more. EXCLUDE them, banish them, DELETE them.

Stop being a fucking pussy.

At 6/2/09 03:54 PM, yhar wrote:

If I don't already have a ban can I send death threats?

Unless you'd like to take a walk on the plank...

:P

At 6/2/09 03:55 PM, JadeTheAssassin wrote: Unless you'd like to take a walk on the plank...

P

Why don't you try out my plank?

At 6/2/09 03:54 PM, Helicopterz wrote: Stop being a fucking pussy.

Websites generate money based on the number of users that use them, you don't want to drive people away by adopting your attitude.

At 6/2/09 03:58 PM, CanadianSnowman wrote:
Websites generate money based on the number of users that use them, you don't want to drive people away by adopting your attitude.

THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE YOU ASSUME THE BBS USERS MAKE UP EVEN ONE FUCKING PERCENT OF TRAFFIC

YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID

Like, come on.

At 6/2/09 04:02 PM, Helicopterz wrote:

At 6/2/09 03:58 PM, CanadianSnowman wrote:
Websites generate money based on the number of users that use them, you don't want to drive people away by adopting your attitude.

THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE YOU ASSUME THE BBS USERS MAKE UP EVEN ONE FUCKING PERCENT OF TRAFFIC

YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID

Like, come on.

You see, you're the type of person I don't mind seeing the rules applied on.

At 6/2/09 04:03 PM, CanadianSnowman wrote:
You see, you're the type of person I don't mind seeing the rules applied on.

I haven't broken any rules, my point stands. You're the pinnacle of vaginal excrement.

"Oh, well I think the authorities should take care of people like you."

Fucking shut the fuck up, this isn't a fucking neighborhood in the hills.

All mods should be more restricted when it comes to locking and deleting shit. no more"All mods have diferent interpretations of the rules and you have to figure out what some mods will let you do when others won't" shit. There's One list of rules. One. not poozy's rules not jades rules. But One page of shit you should not do. I am so tired of shit getting locked up and no one telling them what they did. To put it short. If you have to lock something up. you need to state your reason for doing so. That means listing what rule they broke and thats why so and so locked it. Not: " Fuck this thread. >: ( "And locking it up for no reason.

Helicopterz = JackPhantasm = Posting while alt banned, which apparently you requested to be banned?

You kids are fucking weird sometimes, asking to be banned then posting with an alt?

At 6/2/09 04:11 PM, Jonas wrote: You kids are fucking weird sometimes, asking to be banned then posting with an alt?

It's all about getting attention for the "shock value" or something. Most of the threads i see stem from just that. No open discussion just "Ohh me! Lookit me! Look what i did! Hey you! I'm important! I'M IMPORTANT!"

At 6/2/09 04:29 PM, TheLameSauce wrote: it is fact. new rules means less fun.

It really is a roller coaster to hell when it comes to the rules.

More rules, means less fun. But less spam and shitty posts, what means less complaining, and more happiness. Then people will complain about being bored, so there's less rules. With less rules, there's more freedom, which pisses people off.

Up down up down up down up down christ.

On my opinion, I think some mods are really strict, or they can get mean. Like, say I made a thread. And a lot of the members liked it, and it had a lot of laughs. But then, say, Sanjay (not implying anything) comes along and says "Hey, this I don't like this thread! I'm gonna lock it!". That's what I see sometimes, mods locking threads that they don't like, not because it breaks the BBS rules but solely just because they don't like it.

I wouldn't complain if the rules stayed the same as long as ban messages and lock messages actually described their purpose (rule broken).

At 6/2/09 04:34 PM, TheLameSauce wrote: completely agreed. which is why i champion the idea of doing nothing and telling people to shut their fucking mouths.

I know what Elios is hitting at with his brief cycle there, and it makes sense. Given that idea, there's one reason why, when discussing how the BBS can be changed for the better, then it's not as useful to look at the amount of rules and bans, as it is to look at attitudes, on "both sides" of the argument. I use the term "both sides" carefully because that's implying there's two solidly defined types of user, which is obviously not true, but it works well enough here for seperating your mod from your ordinary orange-named user.

I think one of the first things that needs to be acknowledged by some users is that mods aren't really out to get them. For the most part, I don't see many problems around here with how things are done. Some people are asking for a solid set of ultimate rules that every mod must recite, which is something I think personally would be very hard to pull off. I feel a relatively large and diverse team of mods is neccessary for things to go by nice and freely as they do. Some concepts could be cleaned up, yes, and I definitely agree with those that say the so-called "additional rules" could and should in many cases be flagged up on the main rules page. Still, I've said before: Internet forums are built on sweet, sweet subjectivity; the mods are human, and they are no special robotic exception to that. Hell, we've seen a few differences in opinion between the golden-aura'd here already. It's natural.

However, likewise to the first point in the above section, it doesn't help the case when some mods see a user expressing any sort of opinion about Newgrounds or the BBS, and then to just tell them "suck my dick", or something along those lines, especially when the points the user is making are perfectly adequate and discussable. It sounds like your typical "butthurt user" hyperbole, but I've seen it happen more than once. The one thing I've picked up from a few long-time friends around here and their views on the BBS, it's not that every mod is evil and looking for an outlet for e-sadism, but rather that a few (I don't know every one of you, and I count one, two, maybe three, that fall into this category relatively often, but that's my opinion) mods get away with things that would otherwise be considered unacceptable.

I think I'm repeating myself, but I guess it doesn't hurt to push things around again, get them out there. Again, I'm not basing my argument off bans and being banned. I just enjoy these forums as much as many other of the regulars around here, which is a lot if we admit it, an obsessive load almost :P. If that weren't the case, I almost certainly wouldn't have bothered observing, and offering my own takes, on all these precious e-politics. I hope this is all understandable anyway, eh.

At 6/2/09 04:03 PM, Twilight wrote: Why should a mod get a right to lengthen someone's ban for a PM, but when someone is bothering us we get a "Stop bitching there is a block button for a reason." Mal was real smart in making that Spam PMs go here thread, but other users shouldn't be banned for a...private...message. Because a block is less messy than a punch.

that's not the point of the thread. The thread is for spam account, scripts, which are sending mass PMs. as I stated in the opening post, it is not for people who annoy you.

If somebody is harassing you because of things on the BBS in PM, userpage, AIM, or off the site, you have the right to explain this to a moderator. But, since we cannot follow up on your IM conversations, we may not be able to take action on something like that. We may have to bring Wade into it if a user is actually harassing you throughout the site, but unless they are chasing you on the forums, insulting and trolling you, we really don't have the ability to investigate your claims.

For example, say all of a sudden gagsy doesnt like you because you said something on the BBS. She starts sending you nasty PMs. You block her, as is your right. She begins leaving mean comments on your userpage. You ban her from your userpage. She begins bothering you on AIM/MSN/ICQ and you block her on that. So far, it's getting annoying and she really is harassing you...but moderators can't see any of this, because we are only able to moderate the forums, not your userpage or instant messaging. Now, if she starts replying to every post you make, and going into every topic you post in and insulting you and attacking you, we can ban her from the BBS. If you give us a yell to explain the situation before she starts this, we may start paying attention to her posting habits, and we can jump once she takes it ON THE BBS, but not before. If she is getting that bad, making alts and new IM accounts to continue to harass you, you may want to notify an administrator.

Clarification as an FYI - The point of this thread remains the same as the beginning of it, users to come in and freely complain without fear of reprisal about things happening on the BBS, with the mods, etc, and what they like, or would like to have changed.

So long as users post in a structured and well mannered way, I am curious to hear about how much of issue they take with various things.

That's it. If you think there's anything more to this thread other than this being a freely available and open chat/complaint thread, you're over thinking things.

A forum IS the posters.

Elder users leaving is bad, but I've just gone silent since there's nothing good to reply too.

Fucking 07's

Raising the necessary age requirement. It will soon become obvious who is of age and who isn't.

Well, I would like it (depending on the situation) the moderator just sends out a warning PM to the user, telling them if they make that mistake they get banned. You would think it would require more baby-sitting, but not really.

For example:
If someone posts child porn, just ban away. But if they make just a pointless topic, or just a post with one or two words just tell them "Hey, think more about your posts, and think about a topic that other people would be interested in reading.

Well that's my opinion.

I think we need more extensive rules that are easer for people to see

At 6/2/09 01:43 PM, Sammeh wrote: I'm with David on that one, I've been banned twice now for doing stuff on Stickam.

As I recall, the last one was for having a negative opinion on a certain shitty mod that I and many others should be demodded. Unsurprisingly when someone told him this he served me a 3 day ban.

Your last ban from stickam was from bitching about being kicked in the stickam thread. you got kicked because you were annoying the fuck out of everyone in there. then you bitched in thread about it.

When you bitch in the thread about being kicked, it is the same about bitching about bans you have received, which is against the BBS rules.

At 6/2/09 05:18 PM, Twilight wrote: I'm saying you shouldn't ban me if I pwn your inbox because it isn't happening on the BBS.

if it is regards to our moderating, then we withhold our right, under the rules, to extend a ban for PM harassment.

I happen to feel that if you bring it to email or IM, or otherwise outside of the BBS, especially outside of the site, to insult me, then that is harassment. You are bringing something totally beyond the scope of reasonable if you go through that much effort to insult a moderator because of their moderating of the BBS, you better bet you will get punished for it.

you will never be banned on the BBS for spamming my inbox if I hadn't banned you/locked your thread or otherwise hadnt moderated you in any way. same goes for my userpage. You also cannot be banned for complaining in your own or other's userpages.

and you know what? If you can't handle being polite in a personal correspondence with anothe rperson, you're not worth the time of a reply, but in many cases we give you the benefit of the doubt and engage you even though we dont have to. If you cant bring your concerns to me in a polite way or even coherently, then dont bother sending that PM. If it takes a ban extension for you to understand this, so be it.

i think there should be more mods like poozy to weed out the retards who like cock jokes and the noobs that post useless topics like "ramen noodles.... im eatin em"

At 6/2/09 09:53 PM, 1001115968 wrote: i think there should be more mods like poozy to weed out the retards who like cock jokes and the noobs that post useless topics like "ramen noodles.... im eatin em"

You can point those out to us through PMs. Easy to link to, and it's like being in the witness protection program.

At 6/2/09 05:30 PM, uzi47 wrote: Well, I would like it (depending on the situation) the moderator just sends out a warning PM to the user, telling them if they make that mistake they get banned. You would think it would require more baby-sitting, but not really.

For example:
If someone posts child porn, just ban away. But if they make just a pointless topic, or just a post with one or two words just tell them "Hey, think more about your posts, and think about a topic that other people would be interested in reading.

Well that's my opinion.

I think it's pretty clear by the rules that our hands are tied in most cases of bannings:

The "BIG ONES"

If you break these rules, you'll earn an instant banregardless of which moderator sees the post(s).

* Using racist, sexist, homophobic or hateful language.
* Posting pornographic (including cartoon porn) or NSFW (Not Safe For Work) material. Exceptions include NG staff or if you're posting to the Art Forum and it's relevant rather than downright perverted.
* Linking to pornographic or NSFW material without a clear warning.
* Linking to viruses, referral sites, or maliciously coded websites either in your signature or in your post.
* Discussing illegal activities - including, but not limited to: ROMs, cracks, warez and hacking.
* Instigating or discussing malicious attacks on other websites
* Posting with an alternate account whilst banned or your main account while an alt is banned. Both accounts may be deleted.
* Posting any member's real life information without permission.
* Impersonating Administrators, Moderators, or Newgrounds regulars.
* Bumping any old topic without a good reason and new information.
* Making multiple short posts (five words or less) over a short time period.
* Attempting to smartass your way around these rules.

My final thought on warnings: the rules should be your first and only warning. They are short, easy to understand and pinned to the top of every forum. the rules listed above are not up to interpretation. If you break them, you will get banned.

The other rules mentioned are very clearly up to each moderator's interpretation. It's not that they are vague, but when we moderate, we have to ban for offenses of the big ones but we have a choice in the others. We may choose to give you a ban or a warning or simply to delete your post.

We have plenty of warnings for users before you leave a reply, there's a checkbox you must click before posting that links you to the rules and says by clicking it you agree to follow them. the sticky specifically states "read before posting".

I ask that anyone who has been posting in this thread read the rules again. Go ahead and read them again even if you feel you know them well. See for yourself the language used. If you haven't read it after the redesign, you may be pleased to find that they have lost their wordy nature.

At 6/2/09 09:57 PM, JadeTheAssassin wrote:

At 6/2/09 09:53 PM, 1001115968 wrote: i think there should be more mods like poozy to weed out the retards who like cock jokes and the noobs that post useless topics like "ramen noodles.... im eatin em"

You can point those out to us through PMs. Easy to link to, and it's like being in the witness protection program.

well if you and the other mods (besides poozy) should have gotten at least one from me here and there letting you guys know of stupid pointless topics