At 6/1/09 03:57 AM, gregaaron89 wrote: Stop making the word "F****t" or the shortened "f*g" a bannable offense

Well said. I completely agree. I think I might have been banned for it before and it's just stupid. It's like those obnoxious PSA's about not saying "That's so gay". It just gives the word more power and solves nothing. I'm not directly calling someone a homosexual and saying it's wrong to be gay, no one is getting offended, so what the hell does banning someone over that prove?

At 6/1/09 02:51 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: Rebuttal

The problem is, and as users have pointed out many times, mods will do or say things that other users get banned for. And it's true. Especially concerning the word fag. We have mods who openly admit to using the word fag and don't care (I'm one of them, except I never personally attack people with it, or try not to, but instead I use it in humorous or ironic ways.)

Maybe this is something we should bring up with the admins again, because more than anything I believe it's just them not wanting words to be used to directly insult and berate other users. If they wanted the word banned, they could ban it like the N-word.

This is going to be a debate that just won't be won, and users are going to continue to get banned for using the word fag, while other users get away with it, and other users aren't caught, and users catch mods doing it. It's a Catch 22.

And I also believe this forum is pretty derogatory. Let's face it, people post threads about dicks, shit, bestiality, incest, etc. There is plenty of sick shit to go around. But, saying the word fag is crossing the line? It makes it 10x worse when paid staff members like Stamper use the word fag. Not that I have anything against him using the word, because I've made it clear that people using the word doesn't bother me.

So, let's recount. Admins can say fag, and some mods will say fag, while others will ban for the word no matter the circumstance. It's pretty clear why regulars leave this website. When you've been here since 2002 and you get banned for saying "fag" in the most leisurely, unoffensive manner, it's pretty fucking weak.

Oh, and while I'm on the subject of disagreeing with certain aspects of how this forum is moderated, I'd like to add how much I sincerely hate the destroy feature. I've said it many times in the mod lounge, and I feel bad because it's cool that the staff try to give us extra tools to make the job easier, but this one is way too easily taken advantage of.

It just makes the job of moderating much less personal and a lot more robotic. It's too easy to click a button and ban an entire thread because of it being "spammy." When I look through user ban records, they are loaded with bans from the destroy feature. I just looked at Gagsy's as an example, since she has a lot of posts and has been around a while, and lo and behold, it's a fucking laundry list of "Banned for posting in spam thread..." bans. Most of the time you will only get a one day ban, but it's still unjustified and totally ruins the experience of posting here.

When I look at records of regular posting users like Gagsy and see that many bans, especially ones from the destroy function, I think, "If this person is so bad, why the fuck haven't they gotten their account deleted yet?" Which is precisely the point. The person isn't bad at all, they just constantly get caught in the crossfire. Dedicated users to this website should not be getting banned so copiously.

Double Standards or no standards at all. More clarity and parity.

Here's my point. I posted some time ago a thread called "Pictures of your pets", unaware it had already been done before, and from memory it got removed, not just locked. But currently in the BBS threads is http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1066 204 the exact same topic, "Pictures of your Pets", from a noobie, who like me at the time obviously did'nt use the search bar. But will anything be done about it?

And the same can be said for the "Phobia" posts, I mean seriously, http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1066 161 and http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1064 182 not even 2000 posts apart and yet allowed to survive.

One of the things I've noticed is that if a mod personally finds something on the BBS annoying, then they will dish out unnecessarily long bans for doing whatever annoys them. If something will annoy everything else but not annoy the mod at all, then a shorter ban will be given. Where as if no one other than a mod finds something annoying, you could be facing a month's ban for it.

At 6/1/09 10:53 AM, gamejunkie wrote: And the same can be said for the "Phobia" posts, I mean seriously, http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1066 161 and http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1064 182 not even 2000 posts apart and yet allowed to survive.

Saying they're 'allowed to survive' is assuming that every moderator has checked and posting in them, when it's just not the case.

If you put your message in a PM and sent it to me, the most recent topic would be locked with a link to the previous one.

Assuming that the mods aren't doing their jobs properly because they missed something is pretty poor logic. Making a bad decision or a poor judgement call would be bad moderating, but if we've just overlooked something you really can't justify being so quick to jump on us for it.

Although every mod on the team knows what they're doing when it comes to duplicated threads and minor issues like that, there are still times when there are no moderators online for just long enough for a thread to drop off the front page and be missed completely.

When you see something like that, send one of us a PM and it'll be sorted out, or you'll get an explanation as to why not.

At 6/1/09 04:32 AM, vaIentine wrote: Too be 100% honest, I think a bunch of the old Newgrounds users left because of the redesign of the BBS. I was thinking of leaving myself, and Jonas - I've been around longer then you (well back in the Muffin days)...

Uhh... I've been around since the old BBS design? This is my second account?

The muffin days? Hell, I was there. I had a sig that said friend of the muffins for the longest time.

N*gger and faggot will be autobans from me 100% of the time until the higher authority decrees them acceptable. I've picked my side and am sticking with it. It's either all or nothing, IMO. Given the fact that 95% of the usage of either word on the General Forum is simply uncalled for and/or irresponsible, I have no qualms with my decision.

I'm not going to get into a big moralistic debate about these or other words, their respective degrees of "offensiveness," or the rather inconsequential effects banning or not banning them has on the BBS.

There are a few cases where I could let it slide, like if you're (maturely) talking about what someone else said or times like this thread where we're actually discussing it, i.e. that 5% of the time when it's not used irresponsibly.

Otherwise, I see them, you're banned. End of story. Deal with it. Keep it up: longer bans.

At 6/1/09 10:53 AM, gamejunkie wrote: Double Standards or no standards at all. More clarity and parity.

Happy to deliver, at least on this particular issue.

At 6/1/09 11:11 AM, Dry-Ice wrote:

At 6/1/09 10:53 AM, gamejunkie wrote: And the same can be said for the "Phobia" posts, I mean seriously, http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1066 161 and http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1064 182 not even 2000 posts apart and yet allowed to survive.

Saying they're 'allowed to survive' is assuming that every moderator has checked and posting in them, when it's just not the case.

If you put your message in a PM and sent it to me, the most recent topic would be locked with a link to the previous one.

Assuming that the mods aren't doing their jobs properly because they missed something is pretty poor logic. Making a bad decision or a poor judgement call would be bad moderating, but if we've just overlooked something you really can't justify being so quick to jump on us for it.

Although every mod on the team knows what they're doing when it comes to duplicated threads and minor issues like that, there are still times when there are no moderators online for just long enough for a thread to drop off the front page and be missed completely.

When you see something like that, send one of us a PM and it'll be sorted out, or you'll get an explanation as to why not.

Fair enough comments on some but not all of my comments. So why is the "Pictures of your pets" thread still open. http://www.newgrounds.com/ bbs/topic/1066204 when my exact same topic got deleted within seconds of posting it. With a message from I think it was Evark not completely sure about that, but the message said, NO PICTURE POST THREADS.

Following words/phrases need to be bannable:

Butthurt.
Owned.
Epic[...].

That's all I can think of. Seriously, seeing that shit clutter up a funny thread makes it a lot less humorous, especially when morons use them out of context.

In addition, I'd like to see BBS mods sticking to their jobs of modding the BBS. I know users that have been banned for antics in both off-site chats and user's blogs. That's not cool.

And the double standards of some mods is awful. For example, FunkBRS and his hate bandwagon. I have nothing against Funk. But if another user posted that sort of shit, nine times out of ten it'd be locked with a 'this goes in your blog' reply. Sorry to pick on you funky babes.

At 6/1/09 05:02 AM, DirtySyko wrote:

When I look at records of regular posting users like Gagsy and see that many bans, especially ones from the destroy function, I think, "If this person is so bad, why the fuck haven't they gotten their account deleted yet?" Which is precisely the point. The person isn't bad at all, they just constantly get caught in the crossfire. Dedicated users to this website should not be getting banned so copiously.

It may be wrong, but reading that just totally makes me feel less like a shite poster now.

I'm well aware a large number of my bans are from the old spam thread posting business and it has mostly affected what I post in now - Proof that spam thread banning does work, and I think mods are right to ban, just yeah, not everyone in the thread I guess. I and other users shouldn't need to worry about posting in threads for fear of getting banned, when we know we aren't going to break the rules with our replies.

Sure people will say "You care too much about being banned" but when posting here is like your favourite pastime online, you kinda don't want to keep getting banned.

At 6/1/09 11:26 AM, gamejunkie wrote: So why is the "Pictures of your pets" thread still open. http://www.newgrounds.com/ bbs/topic/1066204 when my exact same topic got deleted within seconds of posting it. With a message from I think it was Evark not completely sure about that, but the message said, NO PICTURE POST THREADS.

You guys have to understand that everyone WON'T see everything. Some threads slip through and grow. It's much easier to kill a small topic than a big one because with a big one you have to go and look at the content of all the pages and see if real discussion has actually cropped up.

Also, there's the matter of the fact that spammish topics are ACTUALLY GOOD for the BBS every now and then. you know how the food guide says you need a small serving of fats and shit? That's like our spam. As mods we moderate, not eliminate. So if a few kinda spammy topics manage to slip through, that's actually healthy. If they get too out of control, they'll likely be put to sleep.

There's no formula for what amount of spam can stay. It won't be fair to some OPs. That's just the nature of things.

At 6/1/09 11:26 AM, Zerok wrote:

At 6/1/09 10:53 AM, gamejunkie wrote: Double Standards or no standards at all. More clarity and parity.

Happy to deliver, at least on this particular issue.

I know, you have been extremely helpful in the past. And its much appreciated. Yes I read your News posts as should other users. I find your moderating to be much above the average. At least you give clear reasoning for your bans, or thread locks, unlike some other Mod's. Same can be said for Dry-Ice and Evark, hard but fair. Cheers.

At 6/1/09 11:36 AM, yhar wrote: can any mods summarise what they've taken from what we've all said, whether or not you're going to change and if so, how?

It'd be nice to know that the discussion came to something ;)

Dude, you sound like a guidance counselor or something.

At 6/1/09 11:36 AM, yhar wrote: can any mods summarise what they've taken from what we've all said, whether or not you're going to change and if so, how?

It'd be nice to know that the discussion came to something ;)

This would be lovely, because I really can't be fucked reading through 13 pages to see what has been suggested :3

And I'm sure that this has been mentioned before, but should someone really be banned for posting in a spam thread? (Excluding posting more spam in a spam thread, of course) Surely just banning the OP would solve the problem?

I'm sure alot of other people said it as well, but for me the worst thing on the BBS is by far the destroy thread tool.

I mean sure there are topics that degenerate into absolute shit but banning everyone that posted in the thread automatically just seems unfair to people that had no idea what they were getting into, or people that were actually replying seriously to a troll post.

Mostly I don't post as much as I used to because I'm paranoid about the type of threads that are 'okay'.

I'd abandon my post count just to avoid destroys. Getting banned like that just totally ruins the fun of NG.

At 5/31/09 11:27 AM, Luis wrote: The backseat modding thing is the one that gets me. I have never heard of a more absurd reason to ban people.

Some people are passionate about helping. Yes, maybe to the point of then being annoying.
Go send them a PM, tell them to lay off...

The users should get a choice on some things. Maybe a couple of minor things, something to make us a little happier that we aren't completely powerless.

At 6/1/09 11:26 AM, Zerok wrote: N*gger and faggot will be autobans from me 100% of the time until the higher authority decrees them acceptable. I've picked my side and am sticking with it. It's either all or nothing, IMO. Given the fact that 95% of the usage of either word on the General Forum is simply uncalled for and/or irresponsible, I have no qualms with my decision.

I'm not going to get into a big moralistic debate about these or other words, their respective degrees of "offensiveness," or the rather inconsequential effects banning or not banning them has on the BBS.

There are a few cases where I could let it slide, like if you're (maturely) talking about what someone else said or times like this thread where we're actually discussing it, i.e. that 5% of the time when it's not used irresponsibly.

Otherwise, I see them, you're banned. End of story. Deal with it. Keep it up: longer bans.

At 6/1/09 10:53 AM, gamejunkie wrote: Double Standards or no standards at all. More clarity and parity.

Happy to deliver, at least on this particular issue.

Zerok, not to be a faggot but by you saying you don't want to get into debates makes you sound lazy, and by you saying that the users should suck it up and deal with it makes you look like an asshole. Unscrew your vagina and hop back into polite discourse.

I like how you say that it's going to be 100 % enforcement, and you mention that 95% is going to be used irresponsibly. If you are not going to take the extra effort to discern if the context is appropriate, it sounds like you're just not willing to take the extra time to do your job at that point.

Could you clarify? Because the way you're explaining it, it sounds like your throwing the kid out with the bathwater, and willing to ban users that haven't done anything wrong, solely because they didn't cross a line but came too close for comfort.

There can and will be times when both Nig ger and faggot are completely acceptable to use. You just may not realize it.

At 6/1/09 11:26 AM, Zerok wrote: N*gger and faggot will be autobans from me 100% of the time until the higher authority decrees them acceptable.

Well in that case you better hunt down every mod who uses the word and bring them before the admins because you can't continue banning people on your side for it while other mods use it.

At 6/1/09 11:26 AM, Zerok wrote:

There are a few cases where I could let it slide, like if you're (maturely) talking about what someone else said or times like this thread where we're actually discussing it, i.e. that 5% of the time when it's not used irresponsibly.

Could i assume that 5% would also include some british users(or whoever actually users the term outside of the UK) when refering to actual smokes? It's very common word to use when refering to needing a smoke "I need a fag" or what have you.

Granted there are those who abuse the word but would you ban a user who used the word even in a normal sense? e.g:

Topic: smoking blah blah blah
Message: "I used to smoke 20 fags a day"

Something along those lines where the user is reffering to a cigeratte and not using it as in insult to anyone or reffering to others as one(in the offensive way). Same would apply to refering to something as gay also since it's become a very common word to use to refer to anything that's crap.

While one can see the difference in what the user means "Shut it you Fag/gay" compared to "my net was being gay for a few weeks and would not work" or "i was craving a fag all day to smoke" would things like that fall in your 5%?

That said i do feel on the issue of what could be done better is maybe some trigger happy mods could read a reply or two when it comes to words like these. Some people ban when they even see the word and are ignorant to what context the user used it in.

For awhile I was visiting the BBS almost everyday, and spending many hours of my day on it. However lately, I have noticed myself becoming detached. I think I have gotten tired of a lot of people drifting off into little clicks or groups of people. I understand this happening on some scale, but to the point where others are not even allowed to join in on the conversation without getting flamed or attacked or even in some cases banned. I will echo what many have probably already said in the aspect that some users can do something, then right after them another user can do the exact same thing and get banned. I it leads to the assumption that its because the first user has a close relationship to a mod.

I am not going to sit here and preach because these things haven't personally happened to me, but seeing these things just wears on me slightly and makes me not truly enjoy myself as I once did.

I'l admit now, I don't always agree with what yhar has to say, but I think he brings up a good point in questioning why the DVD thread was locked. I hadn't used that thread in a few months, but I liked posting there, and I liked the responses I got. It was really just a bit of innocent discussion about films and TV DVDs, what people wanted to get a hold of on DVD to add to their collection, and more. Sure, there were some +1 posts in there, but I think that's unavoidable in many cases; you can't expect that part of posting to disappear completely in my opinion. The people who posted there often, at least when I were there, weren't doing any harm.

Of course I'm open to explanations on it, since it would simply be stupid of me not to offer the same sort of gesture you guys have been offering me. I don't know if there's been any discussion about that thread amongst you lot as to locking it, like I sensed there has been about similar threads in the past. I'm just saying I can't really find something on it alone. I mean, I'd rather have that one big established thread for people to discuss their collections, ideas, favourite films and so on, than lots of mini threads on the same issue, which people would need to keep looking in to.

***

I read THEJamoke's first post here last night I believe (or earlier today, it seems like a while ago at any rate). I agree with many of the points he makes in that we're, as a group, responsible for what goes down here more so than the mods a large part of the time. I'd advise people to read it: it's over on page nine of this thread.

However, I also think there's the thing about putting too much of importance on bans around here. The amount of bans a user recieves is obviously a quanitfiable figure which may or may not show that same user's enjoyment of the forums in some cases, but I don't think I agree with that 100% of the time. I don't think I've been banned in a while, but I can still pick up on things around the BBS, some of which I've already posted here briefly.

I'll say it again, I think the mods do a good job a large part of the time: they're dedicated, know their way around the place and seem to be decent enough people themselves, most of the time. I don't like to think things I post are stuffy, plugging up people's fun and what-not. I'm just saying, there is a bit of fault on both sides really, and I say that in the nicest way I possibly can.

Yeah, I think I should be posting more... but it's hot today, and I need to learn, not that you're, erm, missing out in any way, heh.

At 6/1/09 01:09 PM, Scarab wrote: I'l admit now, I don't always agree with what yhar has to say, but I think he brings up a good point in questioning why the DVD thread was locked.

I recall that was locked because it had effectively turned into a +1 thread for The Master with him psoting the new DVD's he'd got, or at least that was the perspective of the Mod team. It was decided that if people wanted to update a list-o'-DVD's then they could do it on their userpage.

I also recall seeing some Mod discussion on it at some point.... I think.... my memory could be failing me though. Sunshine does tend to do that to me. I could be talking out of my arse in regards to this as this is only a vague recollection I have. If I'm wrong someone correct me and I'll shut up in future.

Also:

Hai Scarab!

At 6/1/09 12:10 PM, yhar wrote: What I don't get is why the words are disallowed; Who actually takes them seriously? I've never come across someone who is offended by faggot or niggur.

Plenty of people are offended by those words, it's not the words themselves but WHAT they represent and WHY they are said.

At 6/1/09 01:43 PM, TheTrooper5 wrote:

At 6/1/09 12:10 PM, yhar wrote: What I don't get is why the words are disallowed; Who actually takes them seriously? I've never come across someone who is offended by faggot or niggur.

Plenty of people are offended by those words, it's not the words themselves but WHAT they represent and WHY they are said.

I agree, none of the racial slang terms bother me in the least, but it bothers me to see one of those words in every thread. Some people even try to implement them in every one of their posts. It bothers me that these people are taking the time to add an unnecessary racist word in what could be a very intelligent post. Queue the "OMG why you say that", and the race war begins once again.

At 6/1/09 01:40 PM, yhar wrote:

At 6/1/09 01:39 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I recall that was locked because it had effectively turned into a +1 thread for The Master with him psoting the new DVD's he'd got, or at least that was the perspective of the Mod team. It was decided that if people wanted to update a list-o'-DVD's then they could do it on their userpage.

read through the thread, there was just as much discussion about DVDs going on as it was a place for themaster to dump his list. if he posts it on his "blog", who's going to look? Nobody.

Don't forget the CD thread. Which wasn't a +1 dump. It actually takes users time to sit there and think what cds they have and there was discussion about cds. Good way for people to find new music.

At 6/1/09 01:48 PM, Gagsy wrote: Don't forget the CD thread. Which wasn't a +1 dump. It actually takes users time to sit there and think what cds they have and there was discussion about cds. Good way for people to find new music.

There are numerous clubs in C and C dedicated to various forms of music, in terms of finding new music, you jsut go to them, take a look and see whats there,m ask for some advice and voila. Same goes for the DVD thread thinking about it. You could easily start a DVD crew, which would be more condusive to discussion as it doesn;t get every tom dick and harry seeing it and going ' I bought a DVD I'll post my list!', but still gets attention as its a thread and not on userpages.

As for the discussion within that and the DVD thread the level may not have been to standard. Ie the +1 post to proper post ratio was too low. There may have been discussion but not at a level that was satisfactory.

Either way, I wans't involved ( either at all, or very little) with the decision to lock either thread, so all I can offer is conjecture.

At 6/1/09 01:39 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Hai Scarab!

Hi there! I need to pop into Politics more often and as a more active user; I keep missing some of my favourite users around here as a result :P

Thanks for the opinions on the matter anyway, because I can see what you mean. On this matter, I'd be all for some sort of DVD Collection Club, if you guys don't have any qualms with it. I'm sure someone can be dedicated enough to keep it up, and I can see it attracting enough attention anyway. I don't know if there's already anything similar though, I haven't really searched out that one. As you say, it might eliminate the problems of the often-silent fields of the Blogland.

I'm not going to lie i drift on and off of newgrounds every once in a while usually because of this one thing that always pisses me off and this is it: When you make a topic that is more over serious and/or discussing issues about something that's not just for laughs. I get very fucking frustrated when the very first guy to make a reply post is a total douche bag and basically ruins the whole fucking thread and makes it into a joke.

If yall could tighten up on the first post of certain threads that would be lovely. I realize theres no rules against douche bags but it does get pretty damn annoying.

sorry for the language

At 6/1/09 01:39 PM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: I recall that was locked because it had effectively turned into a +1 thread for The Master with him psoting the new DVD's he'd got, or at least that was the perspective of the Mod team. It was decided that if people wanted to update a list-o'-DVD's then they could do it on their userpage.

I also recall seeing some Mod discussion on it at some point.... I think.... my memory could be failing me though. Sunshine does tend to do that to me. I could be talking out of my arse in regards to this as this is only a vague recollection I have. If I'm wrong someone correct me and I'll shut up in future.

Nope, I remember that discussion, and I remember it going the way you said it did.

I don't have a problem with such threads like that in theory, but if all the posts, or a majority of the posts are "Just bought Punisher: War Zone" "I just bought In Brudges" "I own this honking list of movies" where's the discussion? Where's the benefit? Now if somebody says "I just bought Punisher War Zone and this is what's on the dvd and this is what I thought of it" that opens up more discussion. It's not all that hard to make a post that invites discussion and it doesn't have to be paragraph after paragraph either. It can be short but it's got to have some information for the next guy to discuss something. If it's just "this is my list of movies" it sure seems to say to me "I'm not interested in talking to any of you fuckers about this subject, I just want you to tell me my list of movies is impressive". What good is that really? Go on your blog if all you're interested in is masturbatory stroking from the NG fanbase. The BBS should encourage discussion about a given subject.