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At 5/16/09 08:54 PM, I-smel wrote: People allways tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
Someone asked once how to do a camera shake, and I talked about what a sine wave does and how you basically start with that and decay it. Then I got some fool all up in my grill spittin NO THAT'S STUPID, THE CODE TO DO A CAMERA SHAKE IS _x+=random();

That does seem like the cool way of doing it (not that there's just one way). I'm in love with sin and cos waves at the moment :P I'm restraining myself from just throwing out a second order differential equation.

Anyway, apart from that little aside, I think your points could be summed up by: 'If you're not entirely sure you know what you're talking about, you don't know what you're talking about'.

Then again, there is the old problem that the very things which make people incompetant prevent themselves from identifying themselves as incompetent.

At 5/18/09 12:35 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote: Also, I'm sick of people asking legitimate questions only to be given links to "Let Me Google That For You". I'm going to start banning that shit. Provide actual help or a relevant link(s) or don't post at all.

I agree, telling people to "google it you lazy fucks" isn't helpful at all, why bother trying to help people if all you're gonna do is tell them to fuck off and use a different resource.

Just ignore it, they'll get the picture eventually. Or maybe someone who, you know, cares will come and help.

At 5/18/09 12:47 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote:

At 5/18/09 12:35 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote: Also, I'm sick of people asking legitimate questions only to be given links to "Let Me Google That For You". I'm going to start banning that shit. Provide actual help or a relevant link(s) or don't post at all.

I agree, telling people to "google it you lazy fucks" isn't helpful at all, why bother trying to help people if all you're gonna do is tell them to fuck off and use a different resource.

What if you do both? Tell them to google from now on but tell them what they want to know anyways? :3

At 5/18/09 12:49 PM, WhoknowsmeaUdiO wrote: What if you do both? Tell them to google from now on but tell them what they want to know anyways? :3

Telling people to Google things defeats the whole object of the Flash forum. We're here mainly to help.

If you've done your own search, found a helpful resource and want to share it, then fine, but telling people to fuck off and search on their own helps nobody.

At 5/18/09 12:49 PM, WhoknowsmeaUdiO wrote: What if you do both? Tell them to google from now on but tell them what they want to know anyways? :3

But they shouldn't "Google it from now on". While Google can throw up some good answers (if you Google the right stuff), this is a HELP forum. People come here to get help off other people, not just be redirected Google. A lot of stuff found on Google can be found here (portal tutorials, AS: Main, etc), so if anything you should link to them, where relevant, instead of Google.

At 5/18/09 12:51 PM, Paranoia wrote: Telling people to Google things defeats the whole object of the Flash forum. We're here mainly to help.

If you've done your own search, found a helpful resource and want to share it, then fine, but telling people to fuck off and search on their own helps nobody.

I don't tell them to fuck off. I try to help them at first, but also tell them to search Google from now on, with the basic stuff like buttons. Example:

(Guy): Hi guys, I'm kinda new to Flash and I want to get into programming. I tried to make a button, but it isn't working, (code)
(Me): Well what you're doing wrong is .... , you should be doing .... (Blah example code blah) ...But try and google from now on first, before you post.

Is this okay?

Would you lot say I know what I'm talking about often or not?

At 5/18/09 01:00 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: Would you lot say I know what I'm talking about often or not?

I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but I think you do, most of the time. Unless you've had some medicinal herbs. What I saw from hereare
alot of useless posts though. (I did NOT compare this to my own posts ;) )

True say dat GG. I agree with what you say, i heard Unknownfury voice similar concerns not so long ago.

Another problem, is that we get a simple question, a simple answer, and yet people feel the need to rephrase the answer and say it possibly 10 times bumping the topic up everytime.

And I dont understand why people are asking for if other people think they are capable of answering questions or not, surely only you do know. If you dont know what your talking about, then dont answer the questions, if you do then great go for it. You dont need anyones validation for that unless your some knucklehead in which case you DEFINATELY shouldnt be answering questions.

At 5/18/09 01:12 PM, CaiWengi wrote: Another problem, is that we get a simple question, a simple answer, and yet people feel the need to rephrase the answer and say it possibly 10 times bumping the topic up everytime.

I guess people often don't read the whole thread.

At 5/18/09 01:12 PM, CaiWengi wrote: And I dont understand why people are asking for if other people think they are capable of answering questions or not, surely only you do know. If you dont know what your talking about, then dont answer the questions, if you do then great go for it. You dont need anyones validation for that unless your some knucklehead in which case you DEFINATELY shouldnt be answering questions.

In other words you just answered my question with a no.
fair enough.
i can live with that.
The thing is I think I'm decently bad but, I don't really help anymore, but when I did i would often make a fool of myself.

At 5/18/09 01:14 PM, WhoknowsmeaUdiO wrote: I guess people often don't read the whole thread.

Yeah I did read the whole thread. Please provide any kind of evidence that I didnt. I cant even see where anyone made the same point you quoted, and even if they did, so what? Im not allowed to agree?

I think your a great example of how people dont help, take a look at your two posts here http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1061 352 and tell me how you contributed to helping that guy at all. All you did is criticise other people for at least trying to help, while you didnt even make an attempt.

Does anyone else think that getting rid of your post count being public would go a long way in stopping alot of the crap?I really think it would, not that its a viable option.

At 5/18/09 01:12 PM, CaiWengi wrote: True say dat GG. I agree with what you say, i heard Unknownfury voice similar concerns not so long ago.

Another problem, is that we get a simple question, a simple answer, and yet people feel the need to rephrase the answer and say it possibly 10 times bumping the topic up everytime.

This is true. Often happens with the easy questions, they get answered 50 times from people who think they're being helpful, which just pushes down the harder questions which makes it harder to get the help you need.

Either duplicate answers should be deleted, or threads should be closed when they are answered sufficiently, or both.

And I dont understand why people are asking for if other people think they are capable of answering questions or not

One of my guidelines covers this, if you have to ask, you aren't

At 5/18/09 01:36 PM, CaiWengi wrote:

At 5/18/09 01:14 PM, WhoknowsmeaUdiO wrote: I guess people often don't read the whole thread.

Yeah I did read the whole thread. Please provide any kind of evidence that I didnt. I cant even see where anyone made the same point you quoted, and even if they did, so what? Im not allowed to agree?

I never said you didn't? Oh and yes I know I criticize people. Guess I should change my aura to dark then, shouldn't I?

At 5/18/09 02:09 PM, WhoknowsmeaUdiO wrote: Guess I should change my aura to dark then, shouldn't I?

Or leave the forums. For ever D:

anyone else find it annoying that you would find about 10 threads with the exact same problem at one time in this forum? most of the time these just piss me off a bit so i help one and then dont help the others.

At 5/18/09 02:09 PM, WhoknowsmeaUdiO wrote:
I never said you didn't? Oh and yes I know I criticize people. Guess I should change my aura to dark then, shouldn't I?

I misread your post, I apologise, I thought you were referring to me not reading the whole thread.

Your still contributing nothing to this thread, exactly like your posts in the question thread I linked to. Dont post for the sake of posting, or just for the sake of useless criticism, noboy cares if you feel someone was helpful or not, unless your willing to show how they should of helped.

In a help topic, either help them or dont post

Sure I can see the arguement of not directly helping them, but maybe contributing to some kind of discussion within, or pointing them in the direction they need to go, but mainly its a good idea some people need to take notice of.

At 5/18/09 02:17 PM, CaiWengi wrote: Your still contributing nothing to this thread, exactly like your posts in the question thread I linked to.

You didn't get a good impression of me, did you? Well I guess that's how anybody sees me. I hate the fact that I criticize others in a negative way, I'm trying to improve there.

At 5/16/09 06:53 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: I've been seeing a lot of threads lately where the inexperienced ask a reasonable question, and the inexperienced answer the question, most of the time wrong.

as i recall this has always been the case, and everyone in the thread learns by discussion.
this is a discussion forum not Yahoo Answers.
People are entitled to freedom of speech and their opinion no matter how right or wrong they are.

Whether this is a result of a lack of help coming from the experienced/regulars since we all tend to pool into reg lounge for a fun discussion rather than helping newbs, or simply people trying to be helpful doesn't matter.

both, regs get tired of answering the same stupid questions over and over.
tend to not want to help, get sloppy, insult people.
some people misread the question or dont read the hole question resulting in a partchal or technically correct but useless answer.

all in all people say and do what they feel like.

"Ask questions and discuss flash techniques with your peers."

This is the opening line underneath the link to the Flash Forums and I think it really describes what should happen in these said forums as compared to what is happening.

In a lot of topics I've seen people ask legitimate questions and instead of helping and encouraging these individuals, their questions are thrown down their throats leaving people discouraged from asking for help here again. Topics should be left as mature discussions allowing anybody to post their input, whether it is right or wrong. From this, even the experienced posters can learn new techniques or ideas that they may not have thought of, and the inexperienced users can learn from constructive criticism. You can't learn from your mistakes if you're too afraid to take risks or discuss topics with other members. If this were true, nothing would ever evolve and get better. The forums should be a large idea pool that anyone can contribute to and also draw from, experienced or not experienced.

At 5/18/09 02:36 PM, Patcoola wrote:

At 5/16/09 06:53 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: I've been seeing a lot of threads lately where the inexperienced ask a reasonable question, and the inexperienced answer the question, most of the time wrong.

as i recall this has always been the case, and everyone in the thread learns by discussion.
this is a discussion forum not Yahoo Answers.
People are entitled to freedom of speech and their opinion no matter how right or wrong they are.

The 'freedom of speech' on internet forums is so tired now. If people want to talk about whatever they want using whatever language then they can make their own forums or websites and say whatever they want. But this is not their forum. By all means neither is it mine to tell them what they can and cant say, but my point is that the freedom of speech argument is not valid in any way.

Dont want to speak for glaiel gamer of course, but Im sure he agrees that discussion in a help topic can be helpful. His whole point revolved around people posting useless help because they think they know what they are talking about but they dont. They just replace broken code with even more broken code.

Whether this is a result of a lack of help coming from the experienced/regulars since we all tend to pool into reg lounge for a fun discussion rather than helping newbs, or simply people trying to be helpful doesn't matter.

both, regs get tired of answering the same stupid questions over and over.
tend to not want to help, get sloppy, insult people.
some people misread the question or dont read the hole question resulting in a partchal or technically correct but useless answer.

all in all people say and do what they feel like.

People say and do what they feel like? Of course, but we can regulate and try to advise what they say in help topics in this BBS. If we gave everyone a free reign, people would rarely get any useful help. For freedom we need laws, its one of the great ironies of life.

The original point of AS: Main was to provide answers to the most regularly asked questions - to help prevent the tedium of writing the same thing out over and over again. Obviously things have moved on since then, but there are still a lot of people using AS2, and those links are still useful (and of course AS3: Main) - but I never see people using them to help newbs.

Although linking them to the main topic is useful, it's definitely better to grab the URL of the specific tut that deals with their problem - it can be a bit of a trial for new internet users finding the one they need.

In terms of specific AS questions that aren't covered by the AS: Main threads, I personally actually quite enjoy spending 10 minutes solving problems with users' flas or code, I just wish I had more time to dedicate doing it because it can actually prompt me to try things I haven't.

Myself, I learnt partly by copying (from web samples or decompiling), understanding and adapting other Flashers' codes, and while I'm aware there are some who won't even attempt to understand why the code they copied from the internet won't work, it certainly shouldn't be looked down on as much as it is as a way for users to learn.

In general, new Flash users should be treated with tolerance rather than hostility. So they tried to create a game by copying someone else's work... who cares? If they want their game to be unique, they're going to have to learn how to understand AS. There is no place on the Flash forum for the virtual bullying and insulting I've seen in some instances, more often than not by posters who don't have a clue themselves.

The Flash forum is here for the experienced users to help the less experienced, whether it be in the artistic or the coding side of the program. We were all newbs once, some people would do well to remember that and chill out on the abuse. If you think you might have an answer to a question, then post... if you're just going to flame, be aggressive, or give bad guidance... don't bother.

It's just like replaying with the phrase, "I don't know, I'm just replying here for +1 posts / make me look smart and helpful."

At 5/18/09 03:25 PM, Ironosaur wrote: It's just like replaying with the phrase, "I don't know, I'm just replying here for +1 posts / make me look smart and helpful."

i thought those posts were bannable

At 5/18/09 03:11 PM, Denvish wrote: In terms of specific AS questions that aren't covered by the AS: Main threads, I personally actually quite enjoy spending 10 minutes solving problems with users' flas or code, I just wish I had more time to dedicate doing it because it can actually prompt me to try things I haven't.

I agree it's quite rewarding when you solve a problem (both yours or someone else's) but I don't like it when people just post .fla files with out also posting a section of code too. People should always provide both, because if it's a simple mistake, people can often fix it with out going to the trouble of downloading a .fla.

At 5/19/09 10:32 AM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: i thought those posts were bannable

They are. I ban people if I see them posting like that. Having said that, it seems to me that Flash is one of the more lenient forums (especially compared to General) so maybe that's why this is whole culture of flaming and trolling has grown. I don't know how the others mods feel, but I don't think the Flash Forum needs to be moderated too heavily, but maybe we should come down a little bit harder from now on...

Like Glaiel & Kirk were saying...explanation of code is needed, coupled with a desire to get people to stop mindlessly copying and pasting that which they do not understand. That's what sending someone off to Google causes. I mean, that poor little ultimate platformer tutorial code has been cut up more times than a shrimp at a Benihana.

At 5/19/09 11:01 AM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote: But maybe we should come down a little bit harder from now on...

Please do so on me :( I notice that I flame a lot, don't want to. I want to help, but I often just do more bad than good.

At 5/19/09 11:01 AM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote: ...I don't know how the others mods feel, but I don't think the Flash Forum needs to be moderated too heavily, but maybe we should come down a little bit harder from now on...

As much as I'd like to believe this is a senior, instructional forum for my peers and flash professionals - it's not. This forum is not as professional as Kirupa, or Actionscript.org, or even Flashkit. What we are is a collection of people who have a like minded fascination for Flash and don't discriminate on age, seniority, professionalism or rank. Because thats what the slogan says right next to the tank and below the title. EbE.

This unfortunately means that a lot of bad advice gets given with no guage as to it's quality. Even with the good advice in the same thread and all the pros of a better solution spelt out, its still the case that a lot of the times your professional solution will not get followed because, worryingly enough, most of the times people don't care that your solution is more practical - they got what they came for and want to leave as fast as possible and they can copy and paste the code into the right spot and make thier little character move regardless of if they're using AyEssThreePointOh or Ooops or whatever all the cool coders are using.

If people want a useful solution they'll wait and be patient and give us all the information to thier problem. These are the people who are actually making an effort to learn already, and they are the kind of people who won't accept a two line onClipEvent code copied and pasted from an ancient tutorial flash as the solution to thier problem. Everyone else is more than likely a wasted case and you should shrug your shoulders, contemplate what the ramifications of yet-another-crap flash project being on the net means for your potential future sponsorship revenue, and help someone else.

One thing I do is give solutions in psuedo-code or faux-c++ or just type some AS in the "post reply" box without testing.

So the logic is there, but if people want to make it work they have to understand what it does.

At 5/19/09 05:04 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: One thing I do is give solutions in psuedo-code or faux-c++ or just type some AS in the "post reply" box without testing.

So the logic is there, but if people want to make it work they have to understand what it does.

Yeah. I've done that a few times.
But then the reply is immediately "So how do I do that in AS?" from the half of the people who aren't here to learn.

I'm going to start rapping knuckles more often for doing stupid things, including giving advice that is just plain bad, seeing as thats what all you cool kids seem to agree would be a good idea. May as well do something other than permaban pirates and remove spam