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I'm in love with the rage on the Steam forums, "bawwwwww I can't achievement farm for a couple of hours to get all the weapons, I hate Valve forever ='(" seems to be the most common complaint.

I am so glad that Valve are being brave and moving away from the hideously broken achievement system for their unlocks, the new system may not be perfect either, but at least they're trying.

At 5/22/09 01:47 AM, Fyndir wrote: I'm in love with the rage on the Steam forums, "bawwwwww I can't achievement farm for a couple of hours to get all the weapons, I hate Valve forever ='(" seems to be the most common complaint.

I am so glad that Valve are being brave and moving away from the hideously broken achievement system for their unlocks, the new system may not be perfect either, but at least they're trying.

I don't know.

I'm personally not really gravitated towards working for some bullshit "goal" of farming achievements just for the slightest chance that the item I want drops.

I want to get 6 random achievements and get my fucking Hunstman. I don't want to get all fucking 35 just for it to drop last because I don't even want the two pieces of shit before it.

This annoys me and totally killed all my excitement about the update.

At 5/22/09 02:14 AM, Pounce wrote: I'm personally not really gravitated towards working for some bullshit "goal" of farming achievements just for the slightest chance that the item I want drops.

So don't farm the achievements?

Just play normally and get the drops that way.

At 5/22/09 02:16 AM, Fyndir wrote:

At 5/22/09 02:14 AM, Pounce wrote: I'm personally not really gravitated towards working for some bullshit "goal" of farming achievements just for the slightest chance that the item I want drops.

So don't farm the achievements?

Just play normally and get the drops that way.

Almost 9/10 of the achievements are impossible to earn by normal means other than having an immense amount of patience and luck over hundreds of hours.

I didn't wait months and months so I could depend on a random number generator to decide when I'll enjoy an update or not.

At 5/22/09 02:21 AM, Pounce wrote: Almost 9/10 of the achievements are impossible to earn by normal means other than having an immense amount of patience and luck over hundreds of hours.

Yeah, so ignore them.

That's the whole point of the change, the achievements no longer 'earn' you weapons, so you never have to think about them apart from when you happen to get one.

I didn't wait months and months so I could depend on a random number generator to decide when I'll enjoy an update or not.

Go cry about it on the Steam forums with the other retards then, this change means there's actually hope for TF2.

At 5/22/09 02:21 AM, Pounce wrote:

At 5/22/09 02:16 AM, Fyndir wrote:

At 5/22/09 02:14 AM, Pounce wrote: I'm personally not really gravitated towards working for some bullshit "goal" of farming achievements just for the slightest chance that the item I want drops.

So don't farm the achievements?

Just play normally and get the drops that way.

Almost 9/10 of the achievements are impossible to earn by normal means other than having an immense amount of patience and luck over hundreds of hours.

I didn't wait months and months so I could depend on a random number generator to decide when I'll enjoy an update or not.

I'm confused. Are you guys saying the unlock items are based on chance, and you don't unlock them in a specific order now? Or am I missing something else here?

At 5/22/09 02:25 AM, DirtySyko wrote: I'm confused. Are you guys saying the unlock items are based on chance, and you don't unlock them in a specific order now? Or am I missing something else here?

Yeah, pretty much.

The medic update had 36 achievements. You got the Blutsauger at 12 achievements, the Kritzkrieg at 24, and the Ubersaw at 36.

And for the others, it went 6-12-18 or something like that to make it easier.

Except now, there's 35 achievements each, instead of coming in increments, it's all entirely random on when you'll get a new weapon or not.

I'm at 17 or something on my sniper and still haven't got one fucking thing yet.

At 5/22/09 02:24 AM, Fyndir wrote: Go cry about it on the Steam forums with the other retards then, this change means there's actually hope for TF2.

Pissing in an ocean of piss. Nothing I do will change their decision.

At 5/22/09 02:25 AM, DirtySyko wrote: I'm confused. Are you guys saying the unlock items are based on chance, and you don't unlock them in a specific order now? Or am I missing something else here?

From the patch notes:

General You now find new and old items as you play, instead of through achievements

My understanding, and it seems to be backed up by what others are saying, is that this means the previously achievement based unlocks are now semi-random.

No real information on what, if anything, affects the chances of getting them, or if it's completely random, but I'm sure all the details will come to light over the next week or so.

I'm reading the TF2 forums now, and everyone makes it seem like items literally DROP when you kill someone. A guy says he saw somebody kill one guy and the Ambassador dropped, whereas he killed like 35 people and ended up getting something he already had unlocked.

Oh, and did I mention that when you get an achievement you might get an item you already have?

That's right, out of like 15 weapons from the Medic/Heavy/Pyro/Scout etc, you might not even get any of the new 6, but any of the old ones you have, making a duplicate in your inventory.

Meaning all those hours grinded for something you already had.

Counterproductive and a shitty idea.

At 5/22/09 02:31 AM, DirtySyko wrote: I'm reading the TF2 forums now, and everyone makes it seem like items literally DROP when you kill someone. A guy says he saw somebody kill one guy and the Ambassador dropped, whereas he killed like 35 people and ended up getting something he already had unlocked.

I've been running over dead bodies as all classes for 5 and a half hours now, nothing so far.

The achievement system worked better
This is a dumb idea

None of you guys understand.. weapon unlocks have NOTHING to do with achievements now. NOTHING AT ALL. Nor do you pick them up from people. They're awarded to you randomly. You could go AFK on a server, come back in an hour and you might have unlocked a weapon or two. It's ridiculous, not only is the randomness meaning you can have several of the same weapon which is incredibly annoying when you want to unlock something specific (e.g., the huntsman), but it's useless.. I have 2 blutsaugers, how does that help anyone ever?

I understand they don't want people to achievement farm, but now they're just giving the weapons randomly rather than based on skill. At least before you had to work for the unlocks, you had to be able to get the achievements.. whether you went to an achievement server or not.

I went to achievement servers to get a lot of my achievements.. I got 10 of the sniper achievements in less than 20 minutes before realising there were no milestones so I was wasting my time. I was seriously looking forward to playing hardcore sniper then spy to get the unlocks, in achievement servers and in real servers.. but now I can't, I've just got to play and hope I unlock something shiny :/

It's balls. Deep fried balls.

At 5/22/09 04:18 AM, liaaaam wrote: I understand they don't want people to achievement farm, but now they're just giving the weapons randomly rather than based on skill.

The overwhelming majority of achievements had nothing to do with skill either, so the level of skill taken hasn't changed, at all, so don't act like it has just because you're pissed you can't hop on an achievement server for 2 hours after each update and get every item.

I'm not a particularly huge fan of the new weapon system, but it was a good move by Valve to try and minimise the amount of Spy/Sniper only servers that would no doubt have appeared had they done it the old way.

I miss the feeling of working towards a goal though. I liked using and unlocking my weapons, because it actually felt like an achievement to say "Look, I have the Blutsauger because I worked for it, not because it randomly dropped in my lap."

Of course, this feeling doesn't particularly apply to the farmers...

I don't think it's just farming they want to cut down on, but they also don't want games to be full of just one, or in this case, two classes, trying to unlock weapons. Anytime an update comes out the class with the update has an overwhelming amount of people playing as it for the first couple of weeks. I just got done playing and for the most part the classes were pretty spread out.

I do agree though, that some people are probably going to get the shaft. I can already see people playing for a month and not unlocking a single new item. I played for about 5 minutes and get Natascha, but I already have that. Also, in my 1 and a half hours of playing, I saw about 7 different people get items, so they distribute them pretty often, you just have to hope you get something you don't already have.

At 5/22/09 06:01 AM, DirtySyko wrote: I don't think it's just farming they want to cut down on

Here's the problem.

There's going to be entire servers full of waiting rooms where you can just AFK overnight and come back with your inventory full, now.

So instead of actually promoting playing, Valve accidentally got the exact opposite of what they wanted, boring the shit out of people instead of having it feel like a lottery.

People in Valve aren't retarded, I'm sure they'll bring it back to the old way soon enough. I mean remember the +50 health for the pyro with the backburner? SO I'm sure they'll see how annoyed we are and just give it to us. Also I think these are the easiest achievements of all the packs. Or at least the spy has easy ones. Sniper's shouldn't take too long.

My computer is too slow to run this adequately.
Mouse + Keyboard controls can still suck my dick, verily.

And by the sounds of it I wouldn't be able to unlock the PC Exclusive shit anyway.
Back to the Xbox version, patiently waiting for the updates.

At 5/22/09 06:53 AM, xthesnarfx wrote: People in Valve aren't retarded, I'm sure they'll bring it back to the old way soon enough.

I will be so incredibly disappointed in them if they give in to you crying babies.

At 5/22/09 07:44 AM, Fyndir wrote: I will be so incredibly disappointed in them if they give in to you crying babies.

Why? For listening to the players? Since when has that been a bad thing in a dev company? Overall, I have to say that I've heard more negative than positive about the system.

Most people are annoyed at the random chance-ness of the weapon drops, but are liking the fact that we're not getting servers spammed with a single class.

I'm sure Valve will be able to figure out a compromise, they've had a pretty damn good track record so far.

At 5/22/09 08:27 AM, ParadoxVoid wrote: Why? For listening to the players?

For listening to the crying noobs who just want to be able to jump on an achievement server, get every achievement (and therefore every item) on the very first day of every update.

It's a pathetic "I DESERVE these things" mentality, the new system is better because it means you can earn the items by playing the game normally, instead of performing arbitrary tasks unrelated to regular gameplay.

It doubtless needs some tweaking, any new release does, but even in a slightly flawed state it's infinitely better than the achievements system could ever be.

At 5/22/09 08:31 AM, Fyndir wrote: It's a pathetic "I DESERVE these things" mentality, the new system is better because it means you can earn the items by playing the game normally, instead of performing arbitrary tasks unrelated to regular gameplay.

I understand where you're coming from. I just think that it could probably have been implemented better, and not so random. Perhaps playing for a certain time, and getting a certain number of points in a game would net you a random item you didn't already have. I believe that's where most of the frustration comes from - not only the randomness of the drops, but for the lucky ones that do get an item, the fact that it's one that they've gotten already annoys them.

It doubtless needs some tweaking, any new release does, but even in a slightly flawed state it's infinitely better than the achievements system could ever be.

This is where I disagree. I feel that there's not much point in putting the work in for an update, if only a small fraction of people get to experience them, and the only reason they do is because they're just luckier than you are.

I agree with changing the way unlocks are obtained, I do not agree with the way they have done it. It makes no sense what so ever. Why couldn't they just have a Battlefield style thing where the points you gain in-game count you up to the next "rank", at which point you can choose which weapon you want to unlock.

FKN VALVE RUEN MY GHEYM I PAID A HOLE 10 DOLLAZ FOR HOW DARE DEY GIVE ME FREE STUFF AND NOT MAYK IT TO MY LIEKING FAGOTS.

At 5/22/09 08:39 AM, ParadoxVoid wrote: This is where I disagree. I feel that there's not much point in putting the work in for an update, if only a small fraction of people get to experience them, and the only reason they do is because they're just luckier than you are.

Again you're looking for instant gratification.

Valve added new stuff to the game, that doesn't mean that every player should have it instantly, you appear to be exactly the kind of person who hops on achievement servers on the day of the update and essentially cheats to access the new items on the same day.

Are you that kind of person?

If so, please tell me now, because there's no point in actually discussing this with you if I'm right.

Apparently they even drop while you spectate.

Seriously fyndir I agree with you but this is just hilarious.

At 5/22/09 10:47 AM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote: Apparently they even drop while you spectate.

Seriously fyndir I agree with you but this is just hilarious.

That's one of the things that I'm currently assuming is a bug, because I can't imagine why they would allow that deliberately.

At 5/22/09 10:28 AM, Fyndir wrote: Again you're looking for instant gratification.

Valve added new stuff to the game, that doesn't mean that every player should have it instantly, you appear to be exactly the kind of person who hops on achievement servers on the day of the update and essentially cheats to access the new items on the same day.

Are you that kind of person?

If so, please tell me now, because there's no point in actually discussing this with you if I'm right.

I'm not that kind of person. I actually like to get the achievements the hard way, through actual playtime, and not 'cheating' for them. The only time I have gone on one, and that was before I knew what an achievement server was, I've regretted it.

The instant gratification point you mention might be valid for some people, but others, like myself, like to work towards something. Personally, that's what I miss the most about the de-linking. Now there isn't any reward for putting in REAL effort playing to get the achievements.