Your Duty To The Audio Portal

[JohnnyFrizz]

Okay here's the deal:

I dont know if some of you have noticed this, but the songs on the Top 5 and Top 30 are getting really few reviews and Im not speaking for the popular artists here, but for the new and unknown musicians that are getting their first tops and their first chances of exposure on the site.

When I got my first Top 5 back in 2008 with my song Stadium Wave, I was amazed by the reception it got from the users and specially from the artists, it got almost a hundred reviews in only 3 days and now I am finding tracks that end up with merely 40 reviews by the end of the week like this one: View - Breathless and I mean, its not the most amazing track in the world! But come on it is has a pretty decent mixing, pretty decent length and for me its a fairly good piece.

My point here, is that the veteran (experienced) musicians on the site are no longer giving feedback to the portal that has seen them grow (as artists) as they once did and I mean, I havent made that many reviews, but I have always tried to make good critical and helpful reviews for my portal fellows and I think many of you should start giving back something to this site, I would like to put wyldfyre as an example here...Look at him! He has been on the site for years and he havent got tired of making good and helpful reviews for both the new and the veteran artists, he probably has the most audio reviews on this site. Maestro Rage also used to make great reviews, Bjra, MusicStory... I mean where are you guys, your buddies at NG need you!

Another really good example would be Karco, he used to make really good crittics and extremely helpful reviews (and extremely long too XD) and I see with great sadness that he hasnt reviewed for a very long time, and I mean, he used to tell us our home truths, but that helped us want to improve and made us say "Boy, next time I swear I will impress this guy and leave him speechless!".

I hope you can get the point of this thread and take consciousness of your responsibility to the musician community on this site.

Thank you very much.

[loansindi]

No one reviews as much as they should.

I don't. It's hard to motivate myself, because I try to always write a worthwhile review (for a worthwhile piece of music anyway.)

That takes time and effort, and a shockingly low number of artists bother to respond with so much as a 'thanks', so it's hard to understand why I should bother sometimes.

[Erkie]

Loansindi brings up a good point,
I personally will only review those who actively write back.

And when I do review, it's for a peice that I find has enough merit to warrant a review, and I do listen to quite a bit of music.

Hitting big by being lucky enough to get into any top five/frontpage is by pure chance, as getting used in a flash in a lot less likely, being popular doesn't give anyone a moral responsibility to actively review. More power to those who do.

[JohnnyFrizz]

At 4/29/09 02:53 AM, Erkie wrote: Loansindi brings up a good point,
I personally will only review those who actively write back.

And when I do review, it's for a peice that I find has enough merit to warrant a review, and I do listen to quite a bit of music.

Hitting big by being lucky enough to get into any top five/frontpage is by pure chance, as getting used in a flash in a lot less likely, being popular doesn't give anyone a moral responsibility to actively review. More power to those who do.

I agree with both of you guys, its obvious that when you take your time to make a good review you would like to be thanked for it, sadly many of the ngers respond to few of them or some of them never respond to their reviews, but perhaps many of them do not intend it, perhaps they are just busy with something (I cound myself in) but if you just want your reviews to be answered (and Ive told many of my fans) just drop him a PM asking kindly to answer your review saying you put a lot of time an effort on making it, I could guarantee you that most of them will answer ;)

Now about the "worthy reviewing songs" part...its not about looking for the best songs to be reviewed, because they simply doesnt need it! Yes you can drop a nice comment saying "WOOW MAN, you're awesom3!! I love this!" but the guys who really need a REVIEW (thats why its called review not comment) are those who are not that experienced, and Im not telling to make an essay for their song, just leave them a lil tip or pointer they can improve and a reasonable grade according to the musicians level.

[loansindi]

At 4/29/09 03:08 AM, JohnnyFrizz wrote: regarding worthiness.

If I feel a song has no merit (something a kid put together in twenty minutes after pirating FL studio) then I won't review it.

If I hear some solid ideas that I feel can be developed into a good song, THEN I will review it and offer my own take.

[Erkie]

At 4/29/09 03:08 AM, JohnnyFrizz wrote: Yes you can drop a nice comment saying "WOOW MAN, you're awesom3!! I love this!"

You can't, it goes against NG's intended purpose for a review. That's why you see "People think this is a useless review." at the bottom of them in both portals. There are plenty of other places to sing your praises to an artist.

However,

but the guys who really need a REVIEW (thats why its called review not comment) are those who are not that experienced

Comments of pure praise that contain your own personal criticism and insights, becomes a review. It's not hard to write criticism for any song.

[Phyrnna]

Every now and then, I strive to leave a nice lengthy long review for new and eveloping artists. After all, I do remember how this community helped me develop my music and I like giving back. Every now and then, when I have time, I'll just click on random songs in the new submissions column. And when I hear a song that sounds like it's got potential but certainly could use pointers, I tend to hunch down and write out a nice long review for the artist. And most of the time they appreciate it and reply, which is nice. Of course, even if they don't, I don't mind. I just do it to try to help out.

By which if any of you want reviews, let me know. I'll take some time out to drop a review.

[Aviation]

I rate based on execution rather than personal preference, but I'm not so good at constructive criticism when it comes to reviewing, mainly because I'm not too savvy in music mechanics. I'm still learning for now, I suppose.

@HalcyonicFalconX:
Think you can review some of my stuff?

I'd be very much obliged...

[Aviation]

I rate based on execution rather than personal preference, but I'm terrible at constructive criticism when reviewing, mainly because I'm not savvy in musical mechanics. I'm still learning for now, I suppose.

@HalcyonicFalconX:
Can you look over some of my stuff?

I'd be much obliged if you did.

[NeonProject]

A lot of the older users are starting to lose more free time, with starting families and working more. Most (not all) youth are more about taking, this is why the 0 bomb thing, even though it's always been an issue, is getting worse.
There's too many new members who expect to get into the top chart without working hard, and there are too many people who don't want to help other's out.

Also, youth of today (blah, blah, blah) don't take well to criticism and just reply you with abuse if you 'diss' their song.

I'll be honest, I haven't submitted for a few months now (Damn, the albums taking all my time up). I should really be spending more time reviewing other artists work, and now I've sene this thread, I will probably work on that.

[Nav]

At 4/29/09 07:07 AM, NeonProject wrote: A lot of the older users are starting to lose more free time, with starting families and working more. Most (not all) youth are more about taking, this is why the 0 bomb thing, even though it's always been an issue, is getting worse.

Incorrect. It's been getting worse because of the rev-share and how views = cash now.

Also, I don't review anymore because I realized that, at this point, there's very little that this site can help me with other than finding a contact or two.

[MaestroRage]

I'm with Nav on this one. I respond to the first 6 or 7 reviews, and then move on. I admit I read everything, but I'm not going to pour hours repeating myself, in all honesty if I could disable the review on my songs I would, i'm not here for praise. I treat my profile as my portfolio to talk to and work with flash authors. The 0 bombers can have an orgy on my page I don't really care, it does nothing to slow down my marketing, and you make no money from audio songs anyways. I don't review because the AP is dead to me. I don't see it changing anytime soon, these recent additions without further change (like introduce the ban/save system to encourage stat whores to listen to audio) will only make things worse.

Which contributes somewhat to why songs on the front page are getting less and less exposure. Since deserving songs RARELY get up there, people get tired of coming here to hear Voice Acting as the top 3 and some random shit on the last two. Very few of these songs are worth anything. If the Flash Portal only had stick figures on the front page, you're going to get a drastically reduced public to broadcast your shitty stick figures to.

tl;dr, i'm becoming as bitter as Erkie ;D! Come here you bastard, give us a hug.

[YouriX]

At 4/29/09 10:23 AM, MaestroRage wrote:

The truth?

Well i havnt been here long but i have to say the AP is changing alot and not in a nice way i might add.

[giftedbuttwisted]

At 4/29/09 10:23 AM, MaestroRage wrote:

Which contributes somewhat to why songs on the front page are getting less and less exposure. Since deserving songs RARELY get up there, people get tired of coming here to hear Voice Acting as the top 3 and some random shit on the last two. Very few of these songs are worth anything. If the Flash Portal only had stick figures on the front page, you're going to get a drastically reduced public to broadcast your shitty stick figures to.

tl;dr, i'm becoming as bitter as Erkie ;D! Come here you bastard, give us a hug.

I disagee, our song got featured 2 weeks ago and got 1,632 votes, 14,103 listens, 717 downloads, 200+ reviews and 250 favorites. The AP is doin pretty good.

[JohnnyFrizz]

At 4/29/09 12:02 PM, giftedbuttwisted wrote: I disagee, our song got featured 2 weeks ago and got 1,632 votes, 14,103 listens, 717 downloads, 200+ reviews and 250 favorites. The AP is doin pretty good.

The fact you are getting tons of crappy comments and praise on your song, doesnt necessarily mean that you are getting feedback from the community and by feedback I mean good and honest constructive criticism.

[Truemen]

At 4/29/09 01:34 PM, Nithalahk wrote: Management has failed when it comes to integrating the two.

Audio artists on strike! and i mean all of them! ... too bad there are people on here who dont know that the AF exist.

[Gorgorothx]

God, you guys are depressing ;) I don't really give a shit that my songs don't get much traffic. I enjoy coming here for you guys. As long as the really committed artists here (generally AF) stick together, the audio portal will never die. I host my music on a few other sites, and to be honest I get more attention here than I do there...

[Truemen]

At 4/29/09 02:04 PM, Nithalahk wrote:
You can't accuse me of treason, since, as the mods like to say, NG is not a democracy.

i was kind a of being sarcastic lol. a strike would fail easily.

[Slipstreamer]

You don't need to review if you cant constructively criticize.

[JohnnyFrizz]

At 4/29/09 02:21 PM, Slipstreamer wrote: You don't need to review if you cant constructively criticize.

True, but even the stupidest dumb can tell when a song sounds good or bad, the only thing Im asking for here, is to help the artists see the what flaws of their work are so they can improve it and if you are experienced in music making, tell the him how he can improve...

[Slipstreamer]

Yeah johnny, but you have no real "obligation" to review if you can't criticize at all.
Everyone loves a good or bad review though lol

[Erkie]

At 4/29/09 02:29 PM, Slipstreamer wrote: Everyone loves a good or bad review though lol

Not really.

[Slipstreamer]

You would know wouldn't you?...

[Erkie]

Yeah, I can be non-specific too.

[Chronamut]

what you must understand is that back then a lot of us had more TIME - with the passing of time we grow up - and real life takes a lot of our time away. I know I barely reviewed at all this year simply because i didn't have the TIME - however I still stayed on here with the community, even though I realy didnt have the time for it - and when school was done - I started to pick up the pace. Even now I should be looking for a job - but I am on here - cuz you know - I love you guys :P

also - it never hurts to pm a person asking for a review swa - youll review them if htey review you - just.. don't do it for every song.. it tends to get annoying.

[JohnnyFrizz]

At 4/29/09 02:29 PM, Slipstreamer wrote: Yeah johnny, but you have no real "obligation" to review if you can't criticize at all.
Everyone loves a good or bad review though lol

I agree but if you happen to find an extremely good song where you cant even notice the flaws you can still give your recognition to it mentioning where he has succeed, artists also need encouragment to keep making kick ass tunes! Otherwise they will just...slip away

And yehh "not at all", I agree with Erkie, I think no one wants crappy comments saying to your song "This is shit, better become a fisherman". What NG artists really needs is the best feedback they can receive from their community

[Erkie]

For slipstreamr, in order for him to give technical critiques, he has to base it on the submitted genre, which is then based on what he considers good in that genre. That's why in some of the replies to his review the artists become defensive over his definitions; "Dude, wtf, I wasn't TRYING to make that kind of trance".

Such is technical information. You can make praise AND criticism palatable at the same time by what standard you come to your assessments.

You have to make cohesive sense of the song. You have to put the entire thing into context to find "weak points". Putting a song into context is finding out how it made you feel, and how the artist intended it to make you feel.

As long as you can do that, you can add whatever you want to it really.

[Slipstreamer]

Yeah, its always nice to see people telling you your song is perfect. :P

[Erkie]

It isn't.

That's why with the reviewing formula I pointed out, the standard with which you review is changed from genre-based ("that clap is WAY too muffled for trance") to feeling based.

As result, there's depth and direction for your review. The great part is, you give praise to thing you like, and critique what you don't like on that basis.

The responses go from their outrage for being genre-specific to their encouragement in merits you find in them.

[Chronamut]

exactly erkie.

you should never genre-specific review a song - review it by how it sounds to you - and how it makes you feel hearing wise - not what recipe you botched music making wise.