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At 4/27/09 09:13 PM, Vrael wrote:

Yes, you have to go FAR deeper. The Sad thing is that "Cool" Atheists always attack Christianity which in terms of arguing against their typical believer or even a Priest is extremely easy, I want to see one of these idiots argue with the leader of a Mosque ( the correct term escapes me, my apologies to Islam) or a Rabbi.

Really? Well search youtube.
How many do you want? You'll notice really really fast that even the smartest of religious people don't have any good arguments :O

They get steamrolled because they defend a crazy position. You could be the smartest person IN THE UNIVERSE and you'd still look like an idiot trying to defend this bullshit.

The only time they don't look that stupid is when they shove sooooooo many lies in such a small amount of time that it just baffled the opposition. That's Kent Hovind's favorite tactic. Well, was, since he's in jail now.
That dude would just spout out lies. Shameless lies. Things about science which he pretended to know but was decidedly wrong about. Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort also do this a lot.

Seriously, I have looked for that smart religious defender. They don't exist. If you are defending a religion, on any level, you're not as smart as you think.

At 4/27/09 09:13 PM, Vrael wrote:

Yes, you have to go FAR deeper. The Sad thing is that "Cool" Atheists always attack Christianity which in terms of arguing against their typical believer or even a Priest is extremely easy, I want to see one of these idiots argue with the leader of a Mosque ( the correct term escapes me, my apologies to Islam) or a Rabbi.

Change that to "dumb" atheists. If you want arguments against religion in general just look up for videos from "thunderf00t" ot "TheAmazingAtheist" on youtube. They know their shit. Even if they do not talk only about that.

Christianity falls rather far off the scale in terms of being able to argue Philosophically about their faith however European Catholic Priests > American Catholic Priests >/= Protestant Reverends etc. etc.

The thing with religion is that you cannot argue with it.

If your follow a religion then what is said in your holy book is a fact and cannot be argued ever, IT IS FACT, END. Evidence shows it is not ? TOO BAD THE BIBLE SAYS SO THEREFORE IT IS TRUE.
Too bad the bible say the earth is flat.

Oh also, George Carlin, when he talks about religion, he is right and hilarious.

At 4/27/09 09:18 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 4/27/09 09:13 PM, Vrael wrote:

Yes, you have to go FAR deeper. The Sad thing is that "Cool" Atheists always attack Christianity which in terms of arguing against their typical believer or even a Priest is extremely easy, I want to see one of these idiots argue with the leader of a Mosque ( the correct term escapes me, my apologies to Islam) or a Rabbi.

Really? Well search youtube.

Do you happen to know thunderf00t and TheAmazingAtheist ?

How many do you want? You'll notice really really fast that even the smartest of religious people don't have any good arguments :O

They get steamrolled because they defend a crazy position. You could be the smartest person IN THE UNIVERSE and you'd still look like an idiot trying to defend this bullshit.

I couldnt agree more, they get steamrolled indeed. Also the smartest person in the universe wouldn't follow a religion.

The only time they don't look that stupid is when they shove sooooooo many lies in such a small amount of time that it just baffled the opposition. That's Kent Hovind's favorite tactic. Well, was, since he's in jail now.

They also like to "quote mine".

That dude would just spout out lies. Shameless lies. Things about science which he pretended to know but was decidedly wrong about. Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort also do this a lot.

Seriously, I have looked for that smart religious defender. They don't exist. If you are defending a religion, on any level, you're not as smart as you think.

Obviously, as religion wants you to be ignorant and stupid so they can control you even more.

Hm, well...

Nothing is perfect?

:D

At 4/27/09 09:18 PM, poxpower wrote:

Seriously, I have looked for that smart religious defender. They don't exist. If you are defending a religion, on any level, you're not as smart as you think.

Eh Don't be so sure I've met a few well versed teachers of Islam, their quite the Academics and if you study the Quran you'd notice its more about Enlightenment than

ALLLLLLAAAAAAHH!!!!!

BOOM

But that's mostly because the Islamic teachers step away from the book and make it Philosophy which is a wee-bit different than Religion.

In most cases it's actually very interesting...

At 4/27/09 09:18 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 4/27/09 09:13 PM, Vrael wrote:

Yes, you have to go FAR deeper. The Sad thing is that "Cool" Atheists always attack Christianity which in terms of arguing against their typical believer or even a Priest is extremely easy, I want to see one of these idiots argue with the leader of a Mosque ( the correct term escapes me, my apologies to Islam) or a Rabbi.

Really? Well search youtube.
How many do you want? You'll notice really really fast that even the smartest of religious people don't have any good arguments :O

They get steamrolled because they defend a crazy position. You could be the smartest person IN THE UNIVERSE and you'd still look like an idiot trying to defend this bullshit.

The only time they don't look that stupid is when they shove sooooooo many lies in such a small amount of time that it just baffled the opposition. That's Kent Hovind's favorite tactic. Well, was, since he's in jail now.
That dude would just spout out lies. Shameless lies. Things about science which he pretended to know but was decidedly wrong about. Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort also do this a lot.

Seriously, I have looked for that smart religious defender. They don't exist. If you are defending a religion, on any level, you're not as smart as you think.

oh god pox... I love you

On topic now who the fuck cares that the majority of people believe in something that there is absolutely no proof of. Congrats your one of the most mistrusted minorities in the world! Now shut up and stop giving atheists a worse name than they have by copy and pasting some shit off of Wikipedia while only trying to get a rise out of Christians here.

And to any of the Christians in this thread believe it or not but not all Atheist's try and go out of their way to shove their opinion down your throats, while I realize not all Theist's shove their ideas down our throats. So lets at least try to keep this as civil as this shithole of this topic in this shithole of a forum deserves.

I believe I'll withdraw from this conversation, I prefer to deal with beliefs/ideals/faiths not Religion...religion is too tangible and horrendously flawed...

At 4/27/09 08:49 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:

At 4/27/09 08:46 PM, HandsomePete wrote: Damn dude... I was just being sarcastic.

Then be more obvious dude, you made me search for a while.

If you are sarcastic when writing something I cannot get your tone of voice obviously, then to leave no doubt you must exaggerate your sarcastic comment to make sure people get it.

Because there are stupid people on the internet and a person could have believed what you said.

I went in the complete opposite tone of what I had been up until that point. Discrediting religion at first, and then making a completely ridiculous statement like, "no one's ever killed anyone over religion."

At 4/27/09 09:37 PM, Vrael wrote: I believe I'll withdraw from this conversation, I prefer to deal with beliefs/ideals/faiths not Religion...religion is too tangible and horrendously flawed...

I am really starting to like you bro.

At 4/27/09 09:13 PM, Vrael wrote:

Yes, you have to go FAR deeper. The Sad thing is that "Cool" Atheists

Christians who've been Christians their entire lives have NO idea how hard it is to be an Atheist, how much discrimination, propaganda, and overall saturation of Christianity in the culture. And those Atheists who've been born again put their past behind them and reassert themselves with the "superiority" of the majority. Sorry if you don't like that after 12,000 years of civilization, those with the idea that "well, maybe ALL religion is wrong, rather than just all of them except mine" has finally gained some traction.

At 4/27/09 09:47 PM, HandsomePete wrote: Christians who've been Christians their entire lives have NO idea how hard it is to be an Atheist, how much discrimination, propaganda, and overall saturation of Christianity in the culture.

Coming from yet another "Christianity is wrong" thread... do you guys think before you post?

At 4/27/09 09:47 PM, HandsomePete wrote: "superiority" of the majority.

This reminds me of something my Dad told me (who's hardcore catholic republican conservative)

"Just Because its the Majority that doesn't mean it's right"

I'm sure some big figure in history has probably said that...I hold these words though to be extremely true...

At 4/27/09 09:52 PM, CacheHelper wrote:

Coming from yet another "Christianity is wrong" thread... do you guys think before you post?

Because one website on the Internet is the affinity of culture amirite

At 4/27/09 09:56 PM, fireybush wrote:

At 4/27/09 09:52 PM, CacheHelper wrote:

Coming from yet another "Christianity is wrong" thread... do you guys think before you post?

Because one website on the Internet is the affinity of culture amirite

One thread on one website might I add.

At 4/27/09 09:52 PM, CacheHelper wrote:

At 4/27/09 09:47 PM, HandsomePete wrote: Christians who've been Christians their entire lives have NO idea how hard it is to be an Atheist, how much discrimination, propaganda, and overall saturation of Christianity in the culture.

Coming from yet another "Christianity is wrong" thread... do you guys think before you post?

NG is one of the few places in which Atheists actually make up a large enough portion of the population to not get buried in a serious conversation by sheer numbers alone.

At 4/27/09 10:02 PM, HandsomePete wrote: NG is one of the few places in which Atheists actually make up a large enough portion of the population to not get buried in a serious conversation by sheer numbers alone.

There would also be youtube. At least atheism got strong representants.

Also 4chan for the most part.

At 4/27/09 10:02 PM, HandsomePete wrote:

At 4/27/09 09:52 PM, CacheHelper wrote:

NG is one of the few places in which Atheists actually make up a large enough portion of the population to not get buried in a serious conversation by sheer numbers alone.

True I think the made up statistic is 7% of Americans believe in No God 15% declare no religion

Here's something for you all to think about, why can't atheist just SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET OTHERS BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE IN instead of trying to shove your belief of disbelief down other peoples throats, you can't prove god exist as well as you can't prove he doesn't, you are just as bad or even worse than extremists. And if you wanna think you're so smart and prove that there is no god, why don't you jump off a fucking cliff and find out for yourself. Then you'll have all the reason to be an ass if you were right.

At 4/27/09 10:08 PM, Vrael wrote:

ot get buried in a serious conversation by sheer numbers alone.

True I think the made up statistic is 7% of Americans believe in No God 15% declare no religion

Forgot to Add, mean I'd gander a solid 55% of NG is Atheist and probably 75% is non-christian...

but hey I'm just blowing random numbers so who knows...

At 4/27/09 06:10 PM, LK412 wrote:

At 4/27/09 05:59 PM, Skeddels wrote: We Catholics believe that if you are sorry for your sins, you shall be forgiven. The first is an example of one being truly for his sins, the second is a situation in which he isn't.

What stops them from doing it again? They could keep doing it and then just go to confession. Just like that act of contrition thing. Just sin all your life and keep a priest by you on your deathbed.

I don't know the mechanics of Christianity tho, so if im wrong then soz.

But, if you continue to do it again and again and again, you are not truly sorry and, therefore, shall not be forgiven. There's a place for people like that.....

At 4/27/09 09:28 PM, Vrael wrote:

Eh Don't be so sure I've met a few well versed teachers of Islam, their quite the Academics and if you study the Quran you'd notice its more about Enlightenment than

I really don't care.
And I've read enough "Allah shits on the infidel" lines from it to know better than to innocently believe their word for it when they pretend like their book is "oh, really, it's all about being a better person and respecting everyone!".

At 4/27/09 09:28 PM, fireybush wrote:

And to any of the Christians in this thread believe it or not but not all Atheist's try and go out of their way to shove their opinion down your throats, while I realize not all Theist's shove their ideas down our throats. So lets at least try to keep this as civil as this shithole of this topic in this shithole of a forum deserves.

Dear other atheists: not all atheists are crybaby pussies like this kid, who apparently thinks that replying to people on the internet is "shoving views down people's throats".

Only an intellectual weakling tries to win people over by being nice instead of being right.

At 4/27/09 09:37 PM, Vrael wrote: I believe I'll withdraw from this conversation, I prefer to deal with beliefs/ideals/faiths not Religion...religion is too tangible and horrendously flawed...

Wow, what does that even mean?

I think the only reason why religious leaders get "steamrolled" by atheists is that, in modern ages, atheists can think up whatever argument they want to. We now have the internet, mass-communication, and things as simple as the postal service.

Back in biblical times, all they had were letter-carriers and The Bible. We have the bible now, and it hasn't changed all too much. So, because we have 2000 year old intelligence to back ourselves with, it won't be able to counter every argument the atheists can think up.

Also, since I am a Methodist, you can call me whatever you want. I'm just trying to look at this from a neutral perspective, so forgive me if I am too religious.

I'm going to sleep now, I'll see if this is still active by tomorrow.

At 4/27/09 10:14 PM, poxpower wrote: Only an intellectual weakling tries to win people over by being nice instead of being right.

I really like this line.

At 4/27/09 10:12 PM, ifureadthisdie wrote: Here's something for you all to think about, why can't atheist just SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET OTHERS BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE IN

Because religion is bad for society. And it's not like Religion isnt all: OUR RELIGION IS THE ONLY REAL ONE ALL OTHERS ARE BULLSHIT EVEN IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE PROOF THAN THE OTHER GUY LOL

instead of trying to shove your belief of disbelief down other peoples throats,

It's called arguing, something that people do what they have different point ofview and they want to make the other person think about his points of view and vice-versa.

you can't prove god exist as well as you can't prove he doesn't,

Why believing in something you have no proof for ? I think it is the best proof that show god was invented by someone.

you are just as bad or even worse than extremists.

Yeah, get the big words out bro, you know it's not true.

And if you wanna think you're so smart and prove that there is no god, why don't you jump off a fucking cliff and find out for yourself.

Because I know there is probably nothing and I do not want to waste my life, what kind of question is what ? Why don't you go jump down a cliff ?

Then you'll have all the reason to be an ass if you were right.

Exept I'll be dead.

At 4/27/09 10:15 PM, Yrtnej wrote: I think the only reason why religious leaders get "steamrolled" by atheists is that, in modern ages, atheists can think up whatever argument they want to. We now have the internet, mass-communication, and things as simple as the postal service.

Yes, before people were ignorant so they ate all the shit religious leaders shoved down their throat, now we have info and facts about things, so we refuse to eat the shit nowadays.

Back in biblical times, all they had were letter-carriers and The Bible. We have the bible now, and it hasn't changed all too much. So, because we have 2000 year old intelligence to back ourselves with, it won't be able to counter every argument the atheists can think up.

Obviously, religion is outdated and not true, if religion had some truth in it they could counterargue us.

Also, since I am a Methodist, you can call me whatever you want. I'm just trying to look at this from a neutral perspective, so forgive me if I am too religious.

HE BELIEVE IN GOD ! GET HIM ! No seriously, It's okay that you at least try to see it from a neutral point of view, it's a first step.

I'm going to sleep now, I'll see if this is still active by tomorrow.

Good night sweetie~

At 4/27/09 10:14 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 4/27/09 09:28 PM, Vrael wrote:

Eh Don't be so sure I've met a few well versed teachers of Islam, their quite the Academics and if you study the Quran you'd notice its more about Enlightenment than

I really don't care.
And I've read enough "Allah shits on the infidel" lines from it to know better than to innocently believe their word for it when they pretend like their book is "oh, really, it's all about being a better person and respecting everyone!".

It's a matter of the perspective of the person reading the book as to what the "infidel" is. You disappoint me though Pox, you're extremely linear in your thoughts, was hoping you'd maybe branch out a tad...

At 4/27/09 09:37 PM, Vrael wrote: I believe I'll withdraw from this conversation, I prefer to deal with beliefs/ideals/faiths not Religion...religion is too tangible and horrendously flawed...

Wow, what does that even mean?

Religion = Concrete while Belief/Ideal/Faith = Abstract

I prefer the Abstract because theirs actually something to argue over and debate intelligently with an open mind.

Religion is just....linear...sort of like your opinion of it, all of it.

Which isn't necessarily wrong. but by no means right. It has it's merits, but their diminished by corrupt men who lead the organized religions...

At 4/27/09 10:24 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: reply

Look i don't have anything against atheists or any other religion, i respect what you believe i respect what anyone else believe i don't care if they do as long as they keep it to themselves and not try to force it into others. I'm not in full belief of god but I'm not in full disbelief either. Keep your religion to your damn self. You can't say that your religion is the only real one, no religion has full proof it's beliefs are the real ones including yours.

At 4/27/09 10:30 PM, Vrael wrote: It's a matter of the perspective of the person reading the book as to what the "infidel" is. You disappoint me though Pox, you're extremely linear in your thoughts, was hoping you'd maybe branch out a tad...

Yeah so you can basically blame everyone you want as the "infidel" it's so much easier to blame people that put your power in danger. He isn,t the one thinking in a line, there is nothing more to religion than what it is in the end, a tool to control people.

At 4/27/09 09:37 PM, Vrael wrote:

Religion = Concrete while Belief/Ideal/Faith = Abstract

I prefer the Abstract because theirs actually something to argue over and debate intelligently with an open mind.

Religion is just....linear...sort of like your opinion of it, all of it.

Which isn't necessarily wrong. but by no means right. It has it's merits, but their diminished by corrupt men who lead the organized religions...

You say it yourself, religion islinear, it's not Pox that is linear.

Religion says: What I say is right, if you do not agree you will burn in hell and deserve to be put to death.

Also you cannot really argue over "beliefs" as they are just what you believe in.

At 4/27/09 10:32 PM, ifureadthisdie wrote:

At 4/27/09 10:24 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: reply

Look i don't have anything against atheists or any other religion,

I respect others, but one sure thing is that intolerance should not be tolerated, and that is what religion is. God hates infudels, god hates fags, god hate strangers etc. OH BUT RELIGION IS ABOUT LOVE

i respect what you believe i respect what anyone else believe i don't care if they do as long as they keep it to themselves and not try to force it into others.

It's what religion, they try to make their bullshit pass as facts.

I'm not in full belief of god but I'm not in full disbelief either. Keep your religion to your damn self.

Won,t be hard, I am an atheist.

You can't say that your religion is the only real one,

I agree with this.

no religion has full proof it's beliefs are the real ones including yours.

No religion has "ANY" proof that their beliefs are the real ones.

"partial" proof dosen't exist.

True I should leave beliefs out of that...

However, when I say Pox has a linear thinking of religion its that he only views it as wrong, stupid or evil. Which is not the only way religion works...

I think my issue is I'm starting to go idealist in this conversation. I do that sometimes.

that and I'm not really connecting my thoughts...I feel kinda random

At 4/27/09 10:38 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: I respect others, but one sure thing is that intolerance should not be tolerated, and that is what religion is. God hates infudels, god hates fags, god hate strangers etc. OH BUT RELIGION IS ABOUT LOVE

Where the hell did you hear the part about strangers? I don't care that he hates gays but if everyone was gay humanity would not exist today so he's on to something here.

It's what religion, they try to make their bullshit pass as facts.

Which is why i stated "keep your religion to your damn self" all are guilty of this even atheism

Wont be hard, I am an atheist.

Well why not help stop all this damn argument about who is right and who is wrong instead of keeping it going since this argument will never ever end.

I agree with this.

Then I'm not fully wrong

No religion has "ANY" proof that their beliefs are the real ones.

"partial" proof doesn't exist.

I also agree, a belief is a belief as well as a theory being a theory. Both ends up with the same answer
Unless you were there while it happened you can't actually prove it, but people choose to go with one and that's the one they feel is more rational.

At 4/27/09 10:30 PM, Vrael wrote:

It's a matter of the perspective of the person reading the book as to what the "infidel" is.

Yeah but it doesn't change the fact that it clearly states that Allah won't tolerate shit from infidels.
And from reading the rest, you can gather pretty obvious things that don't matter on your own opinion about what an infidel is.

For instance:
"Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom"

Does that sound up to interpretation?

How bout this one:

"Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. "

Yeah, that's really vague...

Or this juicy one:

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) "

I suggest you look into it for yourself. Don't listen to what Imams will tell you because you have to remember ONE thing and one thing only: they are in the business of faith. It's their JOB to make you either accept or join their religion and it's their job to keep their converts by any and all means.