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At 4/30/09 08:51 PM, Millo90 wrote: As much as I would LOVE for pot to be legalized, heres a few reasons why it most likely won't happen any time soon:

1: The government has no way to tax it, so if it does get legalized, expect it to be just like smokes, filled with all the chemicals that'll kill you.

This is one of the worst arguments I've heard, and it's one that I've heard quite often.

The government can easily tax it, just like it taxes tobacco. Once it is legalized, large businesses and a legitimate industry will form around it, just like any other valuable resource.

The second point you had was interesting, but not something to worry about. One would very likely be able to buy it not pre-rolled, just like you can buy tobacco not pre-rolled, and it is generally more pure that way. Besides, you could still grow it yourself.

2: We've set up the image that smoking weed is bad for so long now, I doubt the government wants to legalize it after all the crap they said.

But how many do you know that actually believe that image?

3: The police make to much money off busting people.

And the taxpayers waste too much money off of paying for them to be busted.

4: It will make us HAPPY and thats a big no no for the government.

Touché.

all I can say is if they do legalize marijuana it should be 18 and not this twenty one crap. I know it will be legal eventually. states are already getting more and more lenient about it so its more of a matter of when will they legalize it rather than if marijuana will be legal. I just hope it does get legalized soon so our government can stop wasting taxpayer money on idiotic and pointless pot bust.

At 4/30/09 08:55 PM, aninjaman wrote:

At 4/30/09 08:51 PM, Millo90 wrote: 3 The police make to much money off busting people.

That makes no sense. The police lose money and time with all the resources they pour into combating drugs.

It depends on which department, in many major cities the drug task forces have a negative cost on the budget , the are able to do so by siezing any & all property related to drug deals, this includes but is not limited to any monies earned, any vehicles used to transport, any real estate used to grow & of course anything purchased by with the profits from drug dealing, realze that one does not have to be convicted to have there property siezed only be unable to prove that it was not acquired by illegal means, this is a rather fucked up policy as it sifts burden of proof to the owner & not the state.

Well, it would be possible if they made some kind of restrictions or somethin or you need some permision to take mary jane but not make it goddamn illegal :(

At 5/1/09 10:04 AM, Dinkec wrote: Well, it would be possible if they made some kind of restrictions or somethin or you need some permision to take mary jane but not make it goddamn illegal :(

true, an age limit should be put in effect prior to marijuana's legalization, otherwise, stupid preppy middle schoolers will get high as shit, cause an accident, and get pot banned again. Thanks, hypothetical assholes.......

try linking to a reputable website, not some pro drug USENET text file

At 5/2/09 12:03 AM, afuckingname wrote: try linking to a reputable website, not some pro drug USENET text file

Reputable sources right here. Rather or Not you choose to remain ignorant is not my problem

The business of getting Hi
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=
1657827965975839596&ei=Mlf5SYH0GYT0-wHtv %20NyoBA&q=Business+of+getting+hi&hl=en

Grass history of marijuna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sknoKWsVl AA

Penn and teller Bullshit: War on drugs
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=
3025396475247394113&ei=51f5Sf2NG4Tg-wGTu %208DxAw&q=penn+and+teller+war+on+drugs&
hl=en

Super High me(Requires Veoh viedo plugin)
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/catego %20ry/entertainment/watch/v7031922d5yS9E ZW

need something more scholarly, i dont think penn and teller know anything about the issue.

oh i found one
http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/mariju ana.html

At 5/2/09 12:15 PM, afuckingname wrote: need something more scholarly, i dont think penn and teller know anything about the issue.

you'd think that might be why they interview experts on the subject.

At 5/2/09 12:15 PM, afuckingname wrote: need something more scholarly, i dont think penn and teller know anything about the issue.

oh i found one
http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/mariju ana.html

Did you actually read that link ?
My fuckin' slanted pussy god !
THe desciption at the top of the page. "It is a dry shredded green & brown mix of flowers,stems,seeds & leaves."
I don't know what the author of that was on (probably confiscated PCP) but no one, & I mean NO ONE ! in this part of Canada smokes anything that nasty ! ! !
As a matter of fact anywhere in Canada I have ever visited where pot was available (which has been EVERYWHERE BY THE WAY !) What is available is BUDS.
Who in the fuck would smoke sticks & seeds ?
I can see someone who hasn't got a CLICK (FYI a clue contains 100 clicks) being ripped off by someone they didn't know buying a bag of sticks...I mean stems ,seeds, leaves & in a mess like that I highly doubt there would be any 'flower' !

NIDA...they are so unbelievably out of touch with reality, they probably believe their own hype...how bloody sad is that !

I think pot is no different to beer. it's addicting. it makes you unable to function.

so why not? agree

At 5/2/09 06:53 PM, alienhominid100 wrote: I think pot is no different to beer. it's addicting.

Pot is not a physically addictive drug.

At 4/30/09 09:09 PM, 32Degrees wrote: You could hear a story about a man killing his wife because he was under the influence of weed.

yeah, so? Let's ban alcohol then.

At 5/2/09 08:16 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

yeah, so? Let's ban alcohol then.

I would rather have a dad who smokes pot than a dad who drinks. It really sucks.

At 5/2/09 02:30 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

so what youre saying is youve got more potent weeds, so the effects listed there must be stronger

enjoy the damage, espically if you're predisposed to schizophrenia

At 5/3/09 03:28 PM, afuckingname wrote: enjoy the damage, espically if you're predisposed to schizophrenia

that should read "enjoy the damage if you're predisposed to schizophrenia".

At 5/3/09 03:30 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 5/3/09 03:28 PM, afuckingname wrote: enjoy the damage, espically if you're predisposed to schizophrenia

that should read "enjoy the damage if you're predisposed to schizophrenia".

lol

-----------------

With that said, I'd like to throw this out there for any of the hemp-hating weed-o-phobes reading this: How do you enforce a policy that restricts a freedom of choice regarding substance use (note: not abuse) when the prevailing arguments are not against the drug in question, but the stigmatisms artificially instituted through fear and propaganda?

Tetrahydracannibol is an addictive substance. Sparking a joint will get you "high", releasing chemicals that feel "good". Alcohol seeks the same end, through seemingly different means. Should smoked marijuana be outlawed, while teas and snacks be allowed?

For people with addictive personalities, smoking weed responsibly isn't a matter of the drug conquering their higher reasoning powers, but a collapse of their already-weakened state of mind. If you just "gotta have" something you like, no matter what the cost, weed ain't really for you. If you can manage your life while puffing a doobie, more power to ya. If you wreck someone's life DIRECTLY because of your personal choices, you'll face the punishments as well.

An ounce of prevention (lol) here is NOT WORTH A POUND OF CURE. The cure for drug use and abuse is not prohibition, it's education and responsibility.

damage from the to drug to anybody!

An ounce of prevention (lol) here is NOT WORTH A POUND OF CURE. The cure for drug use and abuse is not prohibition, it's education and responsibility.

Well said. Don't feed us lies or ban it, tell us the truth and let us decide.

At 4/20/09 05:13 PM, xXShortEmoKidXx wrote: ... homocide ...

BAHAHAHA

Anyway, everything other than a blatant(...ly hilarious!) misspelling of homicide that Emo wrote is dead-on. Look up how many criminals were under the influence of weed when they commited their crime. It'll be pretty negligible compared to the number who were drunk. And guess whihc substance causes 40% of traffic deaths in the US alone? Not weed, but (gasp) alcohol!

And to all you non-stoners, no one is gonna make you smoke pot if it's legalized. Does anyone make you go to Catholic mass if you're not Catholic? Does anyone make you play football if you don't want to? Of course not! Why would it be any different for marijuana?

And in this crap economy we're all in, why not look to our past to see how well a concept like this has worked before? Look at the Great Depression of the 30's. One of the most successful measures FDR put into effect was ending the prohibition of alcohol, then tasing the hell out of it! More spending money for the government, more mobsters out of the bootlegging business, and more people happy in general! Why wouldn't the same concept work for this drug?

In conclusion:

Marijuana has different effects on different people. Some people get high real quick, while others like me it takes quite a few hits to get high. Some people shit themselves when they get high for some reason. My section mate in college shit himself while he was high and got shit all over the toilet, then took a shower and the shit ran down his wet leg and stained the bottom of the shower. Now I wear flip flops while showering.

My point is that it should be legal because it isn't that dangerous in a controlled environment. In fact, fuck it I'd rather drive with someone that is extremely high than with someone that is a tiny bit drunk. Drunkeness is far more debilitating that marijuana usage.

At 5/2/09 12:15 PM, afuckingname wrote: need something more scholarly, i dont think penn and teller know anything about the issue.

oh i found one
http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/mariju ana.html

A minor point I know, but from reading this it would appear that the withdrawal symptoms of marijuana addiction are about the same as nicotine withdrawal (I should know, I just quit smoking). Added to which marijuana is far more difficult to get addicted to. What really concerns me is, exactly how much damage does long term pot use do to your body? And what sort?

At 5/4/09 04:08 PM, smiler661 wrote: A minor point I know, but from reading this it would appear that the withdrawal symptoms of marijuana addiction are about the same as nicotine withdrawal (I should know, I just quit smoking). Added to which marijuana is far more difficult to get addicted to. What really concerns me is, exactly how much damage does long term pot use do to your body? And what sort?

it should also be noted that most people mix their weed with tobacco, and as mentioned in numerous studies, it is often difficult to tell what is caused by marijuana and what is caused by tobacco.

At 5/4/09 05:39 PM, SolInvictus wrote: it should also be noted that most people mix their weed with tobacco, and as mentioned in numerous studies, it is often difficult to tell what is caused by marijuana and what is caused by tobacco.

;;;
I have occassionally come across this disgusting habit.
But all I have to do is puke all over the place & no one who's there, ever trys to pass me a pot joint laced with tobacco again .
THose who don't know how to roll, or those smoking wet weed are the biggest offenders of the tobacco /pot mix. I can't stand the smell of burning tobacco, it makes me nauseous , if I inhale I vomit...no control ,just projectile reflex.... I don't care about my shoes BBBAAAAAARRRRRFFFFFFFF

Seeing as tobacco is so bad for you, I guess this is a good thing.

At 5/4/09 05:39 PM, SolInvictus wrote: it should also be noted that most people mix their weed with tobacco, and as mentioned in numerous studies, it is often difficult to tell what is caused by marijuana and what is caused by tobacco.

This is especially true in Europe. While I was in Amsterdam, I purchased a joint, and I found it was at least 40% tobacco. Then we smoked with some Irish girls, and they were very surprised that we often smoked completely pure marijuana instead of mixing it with tobacco. They thought of it almost as foreign as someone eating peanut butter with vinegar. I found this to be consistent with everywhere that I went (England, France, Netherlands, Germany, and Poland).

Added to this is the fact that the only place where marijuana is essentially legal, and thus polls and tests can have a bit more accuracy, is the Netherlands, in Europe.

Blunts are very popular in California, another huge marijuana area, and blunts are smoked wrapped in tobacco leaf.

So it is true that it is difficult to tell where the damage from tobacco ends and that from pot begins.

Emotional Development
Marijuana stuns the emotional growth of many of its users as people tend to smoke it to relax instead of facing the problems life throws at them. I'm quite certain that those of you older have experienced the lack of maturity peers exert as a result of such emotional arrest because of consistent use of mj, smoking, alcohol, and drugs.

Taxes and Business
Do you really want to give the government something new to tax American people for? I mean they only take so much from us every year for the rest of our lives. Besides MJ isn't a very taxable commodity b/c it's so easy to grow. Why would I pay for MJ when I could grow for free in backyard? Additionally the Drug gangs and drug lords probably wouldn't take this too well and react in 1 of 2 ways. The 1st response which is what we're seeing in Mexico is that they would basically become more cutthroat, and competitive on other drugs, trafficking routes, and territories, as business shrinks. There organization would be legitimize and since they have far better resources, organization, labor, and overall better business infrastructure, they would have a step ahead of "newbies" who are new to the business. Plus Rival drug businesses would do what the corporate world does today which is intimidating their rivals into bad business. Of course with militarized gangs to carry out "dirty work" it would be economically best for the company to permanently eliminate the rival competition through violence. After all dead owners can't build new stores. This similar strategy would work in mainstream corporate America if they were that dirty, and if you don't believe me just look at how much Apple's stock plummeted when Steve Jobs got sick. If he had died the Apple Stock would have crashed and even though rival Microsoft would publically express their condolences they would be secretly smiling as Apple's mastermind commander was taken out of play.

Health
When Alcohol and tobacco was 1st introduced people a vast majority of people used it b/c no one fully understood the full effects it could have on people. For centuries such items were even seen as good and healthy. However it was only until relatively recently that the public has discovered that these drugs had negative impacts on the body long-term. Sadly the only way we would have truly discovered this information was if enough people used it for a really long time. Now we are able to link the ailments and negative impacts to the source and with so many people currently addicted we often times wish that it had been illegal to save the millions of lives lost, but with so many people used to it and hooked such legislation would be impossible and suffer severe backlash as what occurred with prohibition. However the brightside is that MJ isn't as mainstream as tobacco and alcohol so the majority of people aren't addicted or as heavily influenced by it, as would be the case if it were legal. As more research and development goes in more studies are showing that chronic MJ use does cause accelerated neurological degeneration and potential chemical imbalance. Who knows what other dangers and negative side effects will be discovered as research continues. I will be the 1st to admit that MJ isn't nearly as detrimental as alcohol, and smoking, but I can't justify its usage on this basis alone.
Critics might say that it's a good pain killer, which obviously is true hence its usage, but morphine is also a great painkiller and its b/c of this pleasure that it's also known to be quite addictive. It should also be noted that Alcohol and tobacco were also used as pain killers in times prior, so this makes me hesitant in fully legalizing its usage.

Conclusion
If MJ gets legalized as history as shown there will be NO turning back if later down the road if we discover that MJ is very bad for you as history has shown with the failures of prohibition and the financial struggles with tobacco. In such a case then we'll have the 3 big legal drug killers, alcohol, tobacco, and MJ. Alcohol and tobacco are already a handful enough as it is. As someone who lost a best friend to alcohol as a result of her being hit by a drunk driver, I would have gladly kept it illegal from the start. Perhaps then so many loved ones would have been spared.

However if future studies point out that MJ isn't that harmful longterm and the benefits considerably outway the cons I might be less resistant on the issue.

Actually they make revenue of pot busts. You have to remember that cops and gov't generate revenue from people breaking the law why do you think bails and fines are so expensive?

At 5/4/09 07:11 PM, EXTREMEREDFOX wrote: Emotional Development

People can use the internet as an emotional outlet. People can play video games all day. Both those things are legal but will the same affect.
You can't make stunting emotional development illegal.

Taxes and Business
Do you really want to give the government something new to tax American people for?

Getting taxed is better than getting arrested.

Why would I pay for MJ when I could grow for free in backyard?

So are tomatos. Do you grow tomatos in your yard? What about carrots? OR corn?
People are lazy enough to buy weed instead of growing it.

Drug lords probably wouldn't take this too well and react in 1 of 2 ways.

What happened to the alcohol smuggling gangs after prohibition ended?
They either changed business or went bust. No attacking the government.

Health

Weed could hurt your health. In fact it does. But we don't make something illegal once we find out it is unhealthy. Is high fructose corn syrup illegal?

Extreme guy- Great post on why you shouldn't do it, not why it should be illegal.

At 5/4/09 07:11 PM, EXTREMEREDFOX wrote: I'm quite certain that those of you older have experienced the lack of maturity peers exert as a result of such emotional arrest because of consistent use of mj, smoking, alcohol, and drugs.

Regardless of whether any of that is true, would you like to see tobacco and alcohol made illegal?

Taxes and Business
Do you really want to give the government something new to tax American people for? I mean they only take so much from us every year for the rest of our lives.

I must say, this is a creative argument. You are against the legalization of marijuana because it can be taxed?

Besides MJ isn't a very taxable commodity b/c it's so easy to grow. Why would I pay for MJ when I could grow for free in backyard?

Similarly, tomatoes, lettuce, celery, and tobacco aren't very taxable, right?

Wrong. You would pay for it because the large businesses that would sell it would sell much higher quality than you would, and it is much more convenient to simply buy it than to grow it.

Additionally the Drug gangs and drug lords probably wouldn't take this too well and react in 1 of 2 ways. The 1st response which is what we're seeing in Mexico is that they would basically become more cutthroat, and competitive on other drugs, trafficking routes, and territories, as business shrinks.

It is possible that they would turn to other drugs more, that's true. But in the short term, it would cut down on the majority of their profit, and that would give the Mexican government time to react against them in a full-scale manner.

There organization would be legitimize and since they have far better resources, organization, labor, and overall better business infrastructure, they would have a step ahead of "newbies" who are new to the business.

If marijuana was legalized, I am sure there would be a clause that would not allow cooperation with Mexican drug lords, and oversight committees to make sure this is followed.

Plus Rival drug businesses would do what the corporate world does today which is intimidating their rivals into bad business.

Is this an anti-capitalism statement?

Of course with militarized gangs to carry out "dirty work" it would be economically best for the company to permanently eliminate the rival competition through violence. After all dead owners can't build new stores.

This is absolutely inaccurate. It isn't that dead owners can't build new stores, it's that CEO's in jail cannot run stores. If marijuana was legalized, it would become much more profitable to behave legally than illegally because of the threats of losing their businesses. We cannot guarantee that there won't be some bad owners, but should we stop hiring electric companies merely because of Enron?

This similar strategy would work in mainstream corporate America if they were that dirty, and if you don't believe me just look at how much Apple's stock plummeted when Steve Jobs got sick. If he had died the Apple Stock would have crashed and even though rival Microsoft would publically express their condolences they would be secretly smiling as Apple's mastermind commander was taken out of play.

But it doesn't work in mainstream corporate America. If marijuana was legalized, it would become part of mainstream corporate America.

Your argument also pertains to the Prohibition-era of the 1920's. During the Prohibition, alcohol was handled much like marijuana - by cuthroat gangs who murdered competition. Immediately after alcohol was re-legalized, legitimate, legal businesses began to sell it.

Simply put, it is more lucrative to behave legally with commodities in the long run than it is to behave illegally.

I will be the 1st to admit that MJ isn't nearly as detrimental as alcohol, and smoking, but I can't justify its usage on this basis alone.

You are using a fallacy in your argument, though. You are assuming that just because someone wishes marijuana was legal that they justify its use. This is not necessarily true.

I, for instance, am very anti-cigarettes, but I would never, ever, recommend that cigarettes be made illegal.

Critics might say that it's a good pain killer, which obviously is true hence its usage, but morphine is also a great painkiller and its b/c of this pleasure that it's also known to be quite addictive.

Incorrect. Morphine is addictive because it is physically addictive, not because it is pleasurable.

Marijuana is not addictive - it has no addictive properties. But marijuana can be habit-forming. You mentioned the "withdrawal symptoms" - these are completely synonymous with other habits that people try to kick. Have you ever seen how people act when they try to quit habitually biting their nails? There is nothing physically addictive about nail-biting, it is merely an emotional/psychological addiction; aka, a habit. This is the same with marijuana.

As someone who lost a best friend to alcohol as a result of her being hit by a drunk driver, I would have gladly kept it illegal from the start. Perhaps then so many loved ones would have been spared.

No, this is not true at all. Have you read anything about the Prohibition of alcohol between 1919 and 1937? Here is a link if you haven't. They tried banning alcohol, but it did not stop people from drinking. It didn't even slow the amount of drinking down.

What happened was exactly what has happened with marijuana - it created a black market, and thus funded criminal activity. Illegalizing a commodity does not discourage its use. Illegalizing a commodity encourages (economically encourages) the criminal distribution of it, and makes the use a criminal offense.

However if future studies point out that MJ isn't that harmful longterm and the benefits considerably outway the cons I might be less resistant on the issue.

I have actually written a very long argument which I would be happy to send to you if you were inclined.

At 5/4/09 05:56 PM, morefngdbs wrote: I can't stand the smell of burning tobacco, it makes me nauseous , if I inhale I vomit...no control ,just projectile reflex.... I don't care about my shoes BBBAAAAAARRRRRFFFFFFFF

really? that sucks, but using clip saves on weed, evens out the burn and makes it less harsh. oddly enough i learnt how to roll with nothing but weed (and self-rolled cigarettes) and moved on to using clip; to each his own i guess (or whatever doesn't make you vomit everywhere while trying to enjoy yourself).

At 5/4/09 07:11 PM, EXTREMEREDFOX wrote: Emotional Development
Marijuana stuns the emotional growth of many of its users as people tend to smoke it to relax instead of facing the problems life throws at them.

relaxing and owning up to your problems are two completely different things. relaxing is nice even when you aren't stressed or dealing with personal issues; i honestly don't understand how you can equivocate relaxing with attempting to escape/forget something.

I'm quite certain that those of you older have experienced the lack of maturity peers exert as a result of such emotional arrest because of consistent use of mj, smoking, alcohol, and drugs.

yes and no; but they tend to be idiots irrelevant of drug use.

Taxes and Business
Do you really want to give the government something new to tax American people for?

why not? only marijuana smokers would be taxed. don't want to be taxed, then don't smoke.

Besides MJ isn't a very taxable commodity b/c it's so easy to grow. Why would I pay for MJ when I could grow for free in backyard?

where would you get the seeds? and as has been pointed out before, you can grow whatever you want (including tobacco), yet few people bother when they have an easier option.

If he had died the Apple Stock would have crashed and even though rival Microsoft would publically express their condolences they would be secretly smiling as Apple's mastermind commander was taken out of play.

we have laws and police to deal with that fun stuff. increased activity means greater visibility, which isn't good for people who would rather avoid what would be serious run ins with the law.

Health
When Alcohol and tobacco was 1st introduced people a vast majority of people used it b/c no one fully understood the full effects it could have on people. For centuries such items were even seen as good and healthy. However it was only until relatively recently that the public has discovered that these drugs had negative impacts on the body long-term.

i guess its just a coincidence that after thousands of years of use, research into the effects of alcohol and tobacco have suddenly become more conclusive at the same time as medical science became more advanced and applicable to such issues.

However the brightside is that MJ isn't as mainstream as tobacco and alcohol so the majority of people aren't addicted or as heavily influenced by it, as would be the case if it were legal.

lols.

In such a case then we'll have the 3 big legal drug killers, alcohol, tobacco, and MJ.

well unfortunately research indicates that marijuana doesn't come close to being as dangerous as alcohol or tobacco.