Keeping a kid - Selfish?

[ismellarat]

So, recently I found out that my friend (16) knocked up his girlfriend (18).

Now, some semi relevant background information: His girlfriend is an absolute control freak, and extremely possessive and clingy. She considers him hanging out with other women cheating, and won't even let him call them by their nicknames or anything like that. She tries to be with him every second of every day, even when he's hanging out with friends.

When they started having sex, they always used the 'double dutch' method (Condoms and contraceptive pill) but she eventually got sick of it, and managed to convince h8im (despite protests) that he doesn't need condoms, and that all will be fine.
Sure enough, a month or 2 later he finds out she's pregnant. He tries to tell her to get an abortion, to which she replied "It's too dangerous for me, and even if it wasn't, abortions are murder".
So, he then tried to get her to put it up for adoption, but to that she replied "I'm not carrying something for 9 months to give it away".

So now he's pretty much fucked. Living in the same town, and being 16, there's not a lot he can do. He is hoping that she claims to not know the father, or else even if he flees, he will be forced to pay for the baby. Either way, his future is fucked.

I find this to be extremely selfish on her behalf. Fair enough that she wants a kid, and it is in her wishes, but what about his? Surely he has a say in the matter. He didn't even want to stop using condoms, so it's her fault.
What do you think?
Do you think women really deserve an absolute say in the future of the growing fetus inside them?

[dylan-double-c]

Jesus, if your man enough to knock a girl up, you gotta be enough of a man to be a dad.
I don't think she's being selfish, I mean, if I made life with some woman, I sure as hell would be there.
Kids aren't that bad.

[VladimirJFaust]

Well from what I hear, the lady is an extreme bitch. Reminds me of my ex-step-mom (hated her so much; glad my dad divorced her). I'm just wondering how she's going to explain having a baby with an underaged teen (since he is 16). Would she get in trouble for statutory rape? I know a guy would but what about a chick?

[Joshiwa]

Well the thing is it is ultimately both of their faults because they decided to have sex, there are always risks involved. Granted she could be more mature about the situation and actually talk to him. I say let it cool down for a bit and then he grow some balls and stand up to her and try to reason.

I would say if she says its ok if he wants nothing to do with the child and she expects no child support than so be it. But if not than he needs to man up and take responsibility.

[iCurrie]

I don't think shes being selfish. In my opinion an abortion is murder. His girlfriends only his girlfriend, She shouldn't be able to bitch and moan so much he's gonna throw away his rubber. He would have liked the idea of additional comfort just as much as her. So in a sense, Its his fault.

That been said, Hes only a kid. He doesn't need that much responsibilty for something he didn't really want. And if he's willing to pay for the abortion, But she chooses to keep it, Then he should make a sort of legal deal stating that he tried and she denied. And doesn't have to pay to support the child.

[irashii]

While I don't think she should keep the kid, your friend is not entirely out of the wrong in this. Yes, she was pressuring him into not using a condom, but at the end of the day the choice is his. If you're not prepared for the potential consequences, it's up to you to protect yourself in sex. Yes, his girlfriend says she was using birth control, but unless he's there to watch her take it you can't be positive, and it's up to him after that.

Again, if you're not going to take the steps to protect yourself, be ready for what can happen. I feel bad for your friend, he's in a shitty situation. But these are things he needed to consider before he jumped into it.

[Nakoruru]

Tell the police and put the crazy bitch in jail. She's 18 and he's 16, in most places in the US that's rape.

[pauralotter14]

well i would have done the exact same thing as the girl. Im against abortions and no matter what the guy said i would never have one. the girl cant be blamed just cos it was her idea not to use the condom, the guy didnt have to say yes, so in a way it is his fault as well and he has to live with the consequences.

[Ocean]

Well, if she wants to keep it, it's not the guys responsibility to look after it if he doesn't want it.

[ismellarat]

At 4/18/09 03:42 AM, dylan-double-c wrote: Jesus, if your man enough to knock a girl up, you gotta be enough of a man to be a dad.
I don't think she's being selfish, I mean, if I made life with some woman, I sure as hell would be there.

But he wanted to use absolute protection. He actually suspects she stopped using the pill on purpose to trap him, because that's just the kind of person she is.

Kids aren't that bad.

That isn't the point, the point is that he is 16, and hasn't even finished school. His circumstances are different to hers, yet she has no empathy.

At 4/18/09 03:44 AM, VladimirJFaust wrote: I'm just wondering how she's going to explain having a baby with an underaged teen (since he is 16). Would she get in trouble for statutory rape? I know a guy would but what about a chick?

In Australia, the age of consent is 16.

At 4/18/09 03:44 AM, Joshiwa wrote: Well the thing is it is ultimately both of their faults because they decided to have sex, there are always risks involved. Granted she could be more mature about the situation and actually talk to him. I say let it cool down for a bit and then he grow some balls and stand up to her and try to reason.

He has been tryin to reason for months, she is just too stubborn.

I would say if she says its ok if he wants nothing to do with the child and she expects no child support than so be it. But if not than he needs to man up and take responsibility.

That just doesn't seem fair to me.

At 4/18/09 03:45 AM, iCurrie wrote: I don't think shes being selfish. In my opinion an abortion is murder. His girlfriends only his girlfriend, She shouldn't be able to bitch and moan so much he's gonna throw away his rubber. He would have liked the idea of additional comfort just as much as her. So in a sense, Its his fault.

You don't know the woman we're dealing with.

That been said, Hes only a kid. He doesn't need that much responsibilty for something he didn't really want. And if he's willing to pay for the abortion, But she chooses to keep it, Then he should make a sort of legal deal stating that he tried and she denied. And doesn't have to pay to support the child.

At least you have some empathy for him.

[Nakoruru]

At 4/18/09 03:49 AM, pauralotter14 wrote: well i would have done the exact same thing as the girl. Im against abortions and no matter what the guy said i would never have one. the girl cant be blamed just cos it was her idea not to use the condom, the guy didnt have to say yes, so in a way it is his fault as well and he has to live with the consequences.

She's 18, he's 16. She can easily be blamed in a court of law. Honestly, having a kid as a method to keep a man is disgusting, utterly disgusting. Kids aren't tools.

[dylan-double-c]

Basically I see it like this.
They both agreed (or so I take it) to go bareback. She probably didn't take her pregnancy pills. Technically, if they were double-dutchin it, it would be very many murders, because of the sperm cells being killed. If its not too late, I would suggest a week-after-pill. At least I think they make them that strong...

If you think she's a bitch, poison her? It would take care of the baby problem, too!

[Metal-Sonic-v2]

Judging by the background information that you have given us, she obviously set him up to impregnate her. From that, I'd call her a deceiving cunt. With that, I'd also say that your friend better get a lawyer if he does not want to have to raise (or somehow otherwise contribute to the raising of) that child, although he's probably going to be forced to do so anyway.

Now, I must also acknowledge the possibility that you, OP, have somehow misled us with the "information" that you have given us. I'm not saying you're necessarily being dishonest; I'm just trying to acknowledge two opposing situations. Anyway, let's say that, hypothetically, your friend was just careless. From that, I'd call him a dumb-fuck. With that, I'd also make that same lawyer recommendation, although I'd pity him less once he's legally forced to father that child.

[ismellarat]

At 4/18/09 03:52 AM, Nakoruru wrote: Honestly, having a kid as a method to keep a man is disgusting, utterly disgusting. Kids aren't tools.

I completely agree.

At 4/18/09 03:53 AM, dylan-double-c wrote: Basically I see it like this.
They both agreed (or so I take it) to go bareback. She probably didn't take her pregnancy pills. Technically, if they were double-dutchin it, it would be very many murders, because of the sperm cells being killed. If its not too late, I would suggest a week-after-pill. At least I think they make them that strong...

Way too late. To my knowledge, she's about 3-4 months in.

If you think she's a bitch, poison her? It would take care of the baby problem, too!

I told him to 'accidentally' push her down the stairs or punch her in the stomach. :3

At 4/18/09 03:55 AM, Metal-Sonic-v2 wrote: I'd also say that your friend better get a lawyer if he does not want to have to raise (or somehow otherwise contribute to the raising of) that child, although he's probably going to be forced to do so anyway.

That's actually a good idea.

Now, I must also acknowledge the possibility that you, OP, have somehow misled us with the "information" that you have given us. I'm not saying you're necessarily being dishonest; I'm just trying to acknowledge two opposing situations. Anyway, let's say that, hypothetically, your friend was just careless. From that, I'd call him a dumb-fuck. With that, I'd also make that same lawyer recommendation, although I'd pity him less once he's legally forced to father that child.

I'm going merely off what I know. He is really not the 'careless' type. He stays out of trouble usually (except when he's drunk) he gets A's at school, never pulls sickies etc.

At 4/18/09 03:50 AM, KitsuneNoir wrote: Well, if she wants to keep it, it's not the guys responsibility to look after it if he doesn't want it.

Even if he doesn't stay around to father the child, he'll still have his paycheque garnished as child support. The only way around this is if she claims to not know the father, in which case the government won't know who to garnish.
To my knowledge, he's going to refuse to sign any papers, but he might be legally forced to.

[Metal-Sonic-v2]

At 4/18/09 04:11 AM, ismellarat wrote: I told him to 'accidentally' push her down the stairs or punch her in the stomach. :3

I know that you're joking, but I still must say that doing that would be very destructive and would totally ruin/end all three lives. I hope your friend never brings himself to do that.

I'm going merely off what I know. He is really not the 'careless' type. He stays out of trouble usually (except when he's drunk) he gets A's at school, never pulls sickies etc.

Shit, man, this situation has a high chance of completely fucking up his futures plans for an education.

To my knowledge, he's going to refuse to sign any papers, but he might be legally forced to.

As far as I know, that's a safe mentality; don't sign anything unless you are legally forced to do so.

[jack231]

At 4/18/09 03:37 AM, ismellarat wrote: the 'double dutch' method ) that he doesn't need condoms, and that all will be fine.

MOAR LIEK DOUBLE BUTCH HAR HARRR

not all caps

[alucardxmeow]

If I got a girl pregnant, I'd stay with her and my kid for the rest of my life. Running away would mean abandoning a life form you created, which is equally as bad as getting an abortion.

[Nakoruru]

At 4/18/09 05:15 AM, alucardxmeow wrote: If I got a girl pregnant, I'd stay with her and my kid for the rest of my life. Running away would mean abandoning a life form you created, which is equally as bad as getting an abortion.

Even if you didn't love her? Seriously, that's one of the worse things you can do to a child, they can tell when their parents are unhappy. I honestly think a kid would be better off with one parent then two who are just faking it.

[NikeThanatos]

The best two words your friend will ever hear come out of your mouth.

I think you know what they are.

[ismellarat]

At 4/18/09 05:24 AM, NikeThanatos wrote: The best two words your friend will ever hear come out of your mouth.

I think you know what they are.

Falcon Punch?

[NikeThanatos]

And now for a serious response.

This is the bitches fault. She stopped using the necessary protection; she got herself pregnant. Your friend was against this the whole way through, and now that she's knocked up, he doesn't get a say in this even though it's her fault.

Abortion, adoption, or falcon punch, in any case if I was your friend I'd dump the bitch on her ass and let her keep it for herself. She wants the baby, she can have it, but have no part of either of their lives.

[katyperryy]

At 4/18/09 05:29 AM, NikeThanatos wrote: And now for a serious response.

This is the bitches fault. She stopped using the necessary protection; she got herself pregnant. Your friend was against this the whole way through, and now that she's knocked up, he doesn't get a say in this even though it's her fault.

Abortion, adoption, or falcon punch, in any case if I was your friend I'd dump the bitch on her ass and let her keep it for herself. She wants the baby, she can have it, but have no part of either of their lives.

That's true, but wouldn't he have to pay some sort of child support? Even if he doesn't EVER see them, could she take legal action to take his money.

[NikeThanatos]

At 4/18/09 05:34 AM, katyperryy wrote: That's true, but wouldn't he have to pay some sort of child support? Even if he doesn't EVER see them, could she take legal action to take his money.

He would indeed. The system is so anti-male these days (Whatever is the opposite of Mysogonistic). He never wanted it in the first place, but the bitch won't give him a say, and then HE'LL have to pay for the little fucker to grow up and eventually get addicted to heroin and cocaine cause his father never loved him/her.

We gave women the vote, and this is how they repay us? Fuck me sideways...

[ismellarat]

At 4/18/09 05:37 AM, NikeThanatos wrote: He would indeed. The system is so anti-male these days (Whatever is the opposite of Mysogonistic).

That would me misandric

He never wanted it in the first place, but the bitch won't give him a say, and then HE'LL have to pay for the little fucker to grow up and eventually get addicted to heroin and cocaine cause his father never loved him/her.

Now you see his problem. Why the fuck is it up to him to pay for his bastard son's crack?

We gave women the vote, and this is how they repay us? Fuck me sideways...

I'm just waiting for women's rights to be abolished. I would so vote for someone who promised that.

[NikeThanatos]

At 4/18/09 05:44 AM, ismellarat wrote: That would me misandric

Cheers. I'll remember that now.

Now you see his problem. Why the fuck is it up to him to pay for his bastard son's crack?

Yeah, he could by crack for himself with that money!

[elcriz000]

the woman didn't want to use condoms anymore but he didn't HAVE to keep having sex
with her he could of just said no and he wouldn't be in this mess

[ismellarat]

At 4/18/09 06:00 AM, elcriz000 wrote: the woman didn't want to use condoms anymore but he didn't HAVE to keep having sex
with her he could of just said no and he wouldn't be in this mess

While I see your point, do you realise how hard it is to refuse sex with someone you're attracted to?

[Doomsday-One]

At 4/18/09 06:28 AM, ismellarat wrote:

At 4/18/09 06:00 AM, elcriz000 wrote: the woman didn't want to use condoms anymore but he didn't HAVE to keep having sex
with her he could of just said no and he wouldn't be in this mess

While I see your point, do you realise how hard it is to refuse sex with someone you're attracted to?

I have to agree with this.
It's quite a tough one to call though.

If she intentionally stopped taking the pills, then she should pretty much get the blame.

However, the pills aren't perfect, and maybe they just got unlucky.
If that's the case, then blaming her is unfair. You can't blame someone over bad luck, in the same way you can't blame someone for rolling a '6' on a die, even if she didn't take the maximun amount of protection.

Finally, I have to say that, although I am pro-abortion, I wouldn't say she is selfish for refusing it.
We may not realise it, but I'm sure it's a pretty grim thought to imagine killing your own child, who has been living inside of you, and you have been feeding and taking care of, for 3 or 4 months. Especially since females are usually more emotionally attached compared to males.
In the end, I suppose he'll have to grin and bare it, or try to convince her that it would be worse for them and the baby to let it live.

[ismellarat]

At 4/18/09 06:43 AM, Doomsday-One wrote: However, the pills aren't perfect, and maybe they just got unlucky.
If that's the case, then blaming her is unfair. You can't blame someone over bad luck, in the same way you can't blame someone for rolling a '6' on a die, even if she didn't take the maximun amount of protection.

In the same way, he isn't to blame. Using your 'gambling' analogy, she was the one raising the odds though, so she is somewhat at fault either way. Also, it's not unlikely that she deliberately got herself knocked up. Afterall, she got one of those contraceptive bars in her arm (claiming it was to stop/control her period), but took it out when they started actually having sex.

Finally, I have to say that, although I am pro-abortion, I wouldn't say she is selfish for refusing it.
We may not realise it, but I'm sure it's a pretty grim thought to imagine killing your own child, who has been living inside of you, and you have been feeding and taking care of, for 3 or 4 months. Especially since females are usually more emotionally attached compared to males.

Abortion isn't the only option though. He also suggested putting it up for adoption, but she refused that as well, despite the fact that she clearly isn't capable of raising the baby on her own. I'm sure she'll probably be getting a lot of support from her mother though.

In the end, I suppose he'll have to grin and bare it, or try to convince her that it would be worse for them and the baby to let it live.

Again, there are other alternatives than just 'grinning and baring it'. They aren't capable of raising the child. He works part time, and I don't think she works at all.

[Pugberto]

He shouldn't have decided not to use a condom. At the end of the day it takes two to tango so their both at fault, if he didn't want to risk having a baby then he shouldn't of had sex.