Opting out of PE

[RydiaLockheart]

A couple days ago, the Cincinnati Enquirer published this article about the law that lets some students opt out of gym/physical education classes for various reasons, such as being on the football team. Sometimes, you don't even have to be on a team or anything, you can opt out.

At first I thought, "Great, more fat and lazy kids." But then I remembered my own K-12 experiences. The only things I ever got out of gym class were humiliation and hatred of organized sports. Oddly, there are plenty of those sports I now like/am somewhat interested in now that someone is not lobbing balls at me.

Think about it: Gym class generally revolves around the star athletes of some sport. The basketball kids are good at basketball, and so on, and they're generally the only ones really participating. Nobody gets a chance or wants to play them. Also, classes are what, one hour? By the time you get out all the equipment (and don't forget to factor in the time it takes to put it away), class is half over. Speaking of equipment, why does everything have to revolve around some sort of game? Why isn't general wellness/calisthenics focused on? That's way more beneficial that being able to swing a bat.

Not only that, but some of the standards of fitness schools have are downright ridiculous. My school claimed that if you couldn't run four miles, you were not in good shape. Now come on. I took several types of dance classes for twelve years, took yoga during high school, was a good weight and BMI, and was in general good shape. So what if I couldn't make the four miles?

I guess that may be another point I wanted to make. I was in good health because I got plenty of physical activity outside school. If a kid is overweight, I can see trying to get him or her some decent physical activity--again, something non-competitive that is about general wellness. But if you get enough exercise and are generally healthy, do you really need gym? Surely there's something more productive these kids can be doing. They can take an elective or something.

[TheRadicalOne]

It makes sense to let already athletic students opt out of gym, good for them.

I absolutely hated gym with a passion. It wasn't the sports that got me, though, it was the poor supervision and general anarchy of the class. A coach would pretty much sit on a bench and let 50+ kids do whatever for 90 minutes. Needless to say, a majority of fights, skipping, vandalism, etc happened in those 90 minutes.

I would of done almost anything to get out. But it's required.

Having sedentary, out of shape students is a shame. but I've never seen PE offer any benefits that continued after the semester ended. (If you were in bad shape before the class, nothing is really going to change after it, without serious effort on your part.)

[JoS]

I think its a bad idea. Do we let kids who are in Math Club opt out of math class? Do we let the kid in the poetry club opt out of English? So then why should we let the kid on the football team opt out of gym?

Gym class in general needs an overhaul. It needs to be less sports focused and more focused on fitness. I share your pain over gym class, getting picked last, not getting the ball etc. While there certainly is room for sports, it should not make up the majority of the program. There needs to be a greater emphasis on fitness and participation. How many kids just sit on the bench the whole time but get marks for just showing up?

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 4/14/09 09:39 PM, JoS wrote: I think its a bad idea. Do we let kids who are in Math Club opt out of math class? Do we let the kid in the poetry club opt out of English? So then why should we let the kid on the football team opt out of gym?

I actually got to opt out of several sections in elementary school - spelling, for example - because I tested above my grade level in them.

In first grade I was put in "remedial PE" with all the developmentally disabled and physically handicapped kids. They tried to tell my parents I might have an emotional problem or other disorder because when someone threw something toward me I cowered and held my arms up instead of trying to catch it. Honestly it was really because the kids in my class were chucking stuff at me during recess, like, you know, rocks. Then again, another teacher at the same school tried to get me put on Ritalin. Turned out I was just so bored in her class that I was getting fidgety.

I think if a kid can pass the minimum physical requirements and/or demonstrate sufficient outside fitness activity, they should be able to opt out of the class. Just like in college when you test out of a course, you should be able to test out of gym.

[fli]

At 4/14/09 09:06 PM, RydiaLockheart wrote: Not only that, but some of the standards of fitness schools have are downright ridiculous. My school claimed that if you couldn't run four miles, you were not in good shape. Now come on. I took several types of dance classes for twelve years, took yoga during high school, was a good weight and BMI, and was in general good shape. So what if I couldn't make the four miles?

But PE (at least in CA) doesn't grade you by your health.
They will test you-- but the academic grade only comes from these factors:

1.) you come to PE
2.) you come to PE on time...
3.) you are dressed for PE
4.) you participate during the physical activity
5.) you show good sportman ship.

People sucked at PE could get A's... and the people who were good at PE but were just horrible at coming on time, dressing, or being nice got D's and F's.

I guess that may be another point I wanted to make. I was in good health because I got plenty of physical activity outside school. If a kid is overweight, I can see trying to get him or her some decent physical activity--again, something non-competitive that is about general wellness. But if you get enough exercise and are generally healthy, do you really need gym? Surely there's something more productive these kids can be doing. They can take an elective or something.

[GrammerNaziElite]

But PE (at least in CA) doesn't grade you by your health.
They will test you-- but the academic grade only comes from these factors:

Actually, my coach bases our grade on our health and performance.

On another note, 4 miles? Jesus. I weightlift constantly and take martial arts and I can't run that far.

[Dante-Son-Of-Sparda]

I loved PE . REASONS:

hot girls in short (tight ones) :)
you work out
it gets the pussy out of you
and you nail the fat kids and nerds first in dodge ball

plus I got A's in Gym all the time and im not even atheletic. lol

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 4/14/09 10:17 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: hot girls in short (tight ones) :)

Our gym shorts were baggy, shapeless, and a disgusting shade of green.

and you nail the fat kids and nerds first in dodge ball

Some of us were the nerds.

And despite that fact, I bet I could take you in dodgeball. I'm so skinny I turn sideways and disappear. 'Course, I'm not as flexible as I used to be in my more competitive days...

[Dante-Son-Of-Sparda]

At 4/14/09 10:21 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: Some of us were the nerds.

And despite that fact, I bet I could take you in dodgeball. I'm so skinny I turn sideways and disappear. 'Course, I'm not as flexible as I used to be in my more competitive days...

hahaha sorry I have ethics I don't throw the balls at girls.

my parents taught better than that.

[Malachy]

I enjoyed gym class in school. although, that was probably because I was very athletic and did well in the sport-oriented classes. But, since my class was only 13 kids, we really didn't have too huge of a hierarchy. Only a few students seemed to really despise the class and most of use enjoyed it. I guess since in my school everyone had to play every sport in order for there to be that sport for the season. some years we couldn't field a basketball team.

I happen to think some type of compulsory physical education is needed and that you shouldn't be allowed to opt out just because you're on a sports team or you have some other requirement.

I do agree that the system needs to be changed. I think it needs to start with university programs that train new gym teachers, and requirements high schools have for gym classes. If they gave graduates of a more progressive background more discression in how classes were handled we wouldn't be muddled with what is required and what constitutes fitness.

They should work on simply exorcising. Any activity that engages all the students, gets their hearts pumping and maybe help the develop more as an athlete, or become more fit should be the focus rather than getting a specific time in a timed run or learning how to play a specific sport.

[aninjaman]

As the only one here currently taking P.E. I can tell you personally, you could never reform that class.
The unathletic kids couldn't care less. The athletic kids couldn't care less. The class is like health, people just sorta drift through to get a good grade.
Unless you can convince kids that the class matters people will never try.
But then again thats a problem with the whole public school system not just gym class.

[generalwinter]

At 4/15/09 06:55 PM, aninjaman wrote: As the only one here currently taking P.E. I can tell you personally, you could never reform that class.
The unathletic kids couldn't care less. The athletic kids couldn't care less. The class is like health, people just sorta drift through to get a good grade.
Unless you can convince kids that the class matters people will never try.
But then again thats a problem with the whole public school system not just gym class.

I took gym last semester, and have to say that it was a class I looked forward to. The teacher is the wrestling coach and I am a wrestler, so no problems there. Gym class never has homework, no tests, no quizzes, and whoopty do, you play dodge ball once in a while. Dodge ball is fun even if you are horrible at it, you just have to try and make an effort. As for kids not caring, rivalries were common in my gym class, and competition even among those that were unathletic was still high.

[stafffighter]

At 4/14/09 09:06 PM, RydiaLockheart wrote:

At first I thought, "Great, more fat and lazy kids." But then I remembered my own K-12 experiences. The only things I ever got out of gym class were humiliation and hatred of organized sports.

Ditto. That's a vital part of the teenage experience.

I can agree with what's been said that the ideal of the class, to teach physical fitness as well as team dynamics, is sooooo not going to to happen. But within the flawed system those are still ideals worth trying to capture.
But that begins and ends with public schooling. I needed phy ed credits to get my college degree, like I'm sure many of you did, and it's assanine to put adults into that situation. True it was more of a health class orientated on classwork but any situation in which you get graded for jogging is fucking a gym class.

[slowerthenb4]

get to work you "lazy fatties!!"

it was funny reading this thread. I can remember vaguely the extreme intesity of past pe "teachers." intimidating at the time, just veery pitiful now... lol

i have to side on its not your choice. its a good idea to be active.

it is imporant to run around a bit during the long monotonous day though, and i always did enjoy dodge ball.

[fli]

At 4/14/09 10:10 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:

But PE (at least in CA) doesn't grade you by your health.
They will test you-- but the academic grade only comes from these factors:

Actually, my coach bases our grade on our health and performance.

That doesn't seem fair... to me, what's fair is if students come in on time, dress out, participate and show good sportsmanship, and then finish up.

I remember not being particularly good at sports, but I had real fun. I was less than average in a few circumstances-- I could run a mile in average time and I was a HORRIBLE swimmer (well, I never learned until I was 15 years old.)

I knew friends who were jocks, but they failed PE because they cut class, show poor attitudes, and never changed to their PE clothes.

It seems that's the best way to grade PE-- grade on those things-- not if they can run a mile at a certain time.

On another note, 4 miles? Jesus. I weightlift constantly and take martial arts and I can't run that far.

I question this...
I think maybe 4 laps-- which is 1 mile.
4 miles would equate 16 laps of a quarter mile, which isn't something I can't see in any situation unless this is the track team.

There is so much people can do in 45 minutes to 1 hour class.
I myself can run a mile without stopping in 7 to 9 minutes, which is average for middle school boys. (It's suppose to be shorter for adult men.)

Nevertheless-- there are some guys of my age and size who can't do this in a half hour.

[Nosferatu-of-Worms]

I think kids who are in sports should be able to opt out, but for something like strength conditioning where they need it for their sport. Normal students on the other hand can stay put, but I agree that gym class needs a good overhaul. Though, I never quite understood the point of being picked first, I mean generally I was middle or last (probably due to my stature and not my ability), though if I proved myself to the "Jocks" early on I found that I was picked earlier. In fact I was the most clutch person on my teams, but enough about that.

In short, athletes don't need gym class and should be able to opt out for something like a strength conditioning class.

[Ravariel]

I'm about to sound like a total douche and for that I'm sorry.

A) The reason gym focuses on sport instead of calisthenics/general fitness is because sports are fun, calisthenics are not, they're the warm up so you don't hurt yourself during the fun.

2) 4 miles is nothing. Seriously. If you can't make it 4 miles during an hour-long class after "training" for an entire school year, you're not in shape. Period. Anyone should be able to go that far, even if it's at a very slow jog. You don't have to keep up with me and the other cross country/track guys doing 6-minute miles, but even for the least athletic, a 10-14-minute mile is reasonable. I haven't run any farther than across the street in 10 years and last year when I started to train for a half-marathon after doing literally nothing athletic in that time, I made it 4 miles in about 45 minutes.

D) The only way someone should be able to opt out of a class is to show complete proficiency in what that class is teaching. For Math, if I can do calculus, I shouldn't be expected to take a remedial algebra class. If I'm the fastest cross country runner in my conference, a star basketball player, and nearing college-level times in the 800, I should be able to opt ("test") out of Gym. That said, why would you opt out of an easy A to pad your GPA?

e^x) "Waah, I get picked last and don't do well at stuff because I'm lazy/"big boned"/don'wanna/unwilling to try" Boo fucking hoo, buck up and quit being such a wussy. Any gym teacher worth his or her salt won't be putting kids who couldn't tell the difference between a Basketball and a baseball up against the star point guard on their team in a game of 1-on-1. It defeats every purpose of the class/game. Similarly, if your feelings are hurt because you got hit by a dodgeball, you need to get a sibling and thicken up your fucking skin.

I was a nerd, but I was also very athletic (and in the "cool" clique... my school was a bit odd), so I had the bullying, I got the medicine balls ( for the uninitiated, think of a stress ball the size of a ottoman filled with lead) thrown my way in less than nice ways on several occasions, but I dealt with it. I didn't go running into a corner whining that I didn't wanna play because people were being mean to me. I just beat them at whatever game it was we were playing that day, because on a level playing field, if me and someone else are playing a game new to both of us I'll most likely win. Any nerd who can walk and chew gum should be able to out-think or out-strategize a dumb jock. And if all you ever learn to do is run away from a difficult situation, then you're going to be running away from a lot of shit in life, not just the physical challenges.

42) Most games, believe it or not, are not about competition with others. Even apparently adversarial games like basketball. Guess what they're about? Competition with yourself. They're a competition with the sniveling weakling I am hearing a lot from in here so far. Are you so lame you can't even beat the weakest part of yourself?

tl; dr moral: Quit being a wuss and just play the fucking game.

douchiness done, I promise.

[GrammerNaziElite]

At 4/16/09 08:51 AM, Ravariel wrote: I'm about to sound like a total douche and for that I'm sorry.

Body build is also a massive factor, you don't see big bulky weightlifters running marathons. You're probably a skinny little guy. I was never going to be good at running anyway, but my body type certainly doesn't help.

[Ravariel]

Regardless of your body type, with a minimal amount of training anyone can go for 4 miles. Like I said, I don't expect everyone to be able to keep up with tracksters like me, but everyone can go the distance.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Gym, like all school classes, should be optional. Choseing to or not take a class should be your own choice as a free-willed human being. The consequnces of that, good or bad, is somthing you should live with.

And only sociopathic assholes pick on the fat kids in gym. It won't "help" them lose weight in any way, but if you were going for emotional scarring and being responseable for suicide, then you are on the right track.

[JoS]

Here is a question, why do people advocate not marking based on actual achievement, but rather basically attitude? Are there any other subjects that your mark is based on attitude and not performance. If you completely screw up the math problem, but you had a positive attitude and tried should you still pass? If you blow up the chemistry lab but stayed positive should you pass?

So then why should you pass gym if you can't run 100 meters in less than 30 seconds? I am not saying make the standards toward Olympians, but decent level of physical fitness/ In any other subject if you don't meet the standard you fail, and to avoid failing you work extra hard, do extra outside of class, maybe get a tutor. Why not the same for gym class?

[aninjaman]

The main problem with gym is the teachers don't care about students, the students don't care about their grades, and were stuck playing sports that no one cares about due to safety regulations. The only reason I show up the class because its an easy 100 to raise my GPA.
But the lack of caring is a problem in the public school system. You just use gym as an example.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

At 4/16/09 04:44 PM, JoS wrote: So then why should you pass gym if you can't run 100 meters in less than 30 seconds? I am not saying make the standards toward Olympians, but decent level of physical fitness/ In any other subject if you don't meet the standard you fail, and to avoid failing you work extra hard, do extra outside of class, maybe get a tutor. Why not the same for gym class?

Because an unfit person will have no chance of heathaly getting to that standard of fitness before failing. Math on the other hand, is mentaly studied. And people who desprately need a good grade will develop a unsafe physical regiment, risking DEATH.

[Elfer]

I was fatter after gym class than when I started. I got into good shape when I started exercising on my own.

Being on the football team is absolutely a good reason to get out of gym class. Not to mention, it would make gym class generally more pleasant for everyone else by removing the people on the football team.

[JoS]

At 4/16/09 04:52 PM, MetalSlimeHunt wrote: Because an unfit person will have no chance of heathaly getting to that standard of fitness before failing. Math on the other hand, is mentaly studied. And people who desprately need a good grade will develop a unsafe physical regiment, risking DEATH.

It depends on where you set the bar. Additionally, gym starts at what like grade 1? If we start earlier focusing on fitness there will be less need for remidal work later on.

And are you seriously arguing that we should let kids be fat and unhealthy because it is safer for them? Do you have any qualification or education regarding health and fitness? If you can't pass minimal fitness standards your health is already in serious jeopardy. These kids are at high risk for everything from diabetes to cancer.

I teach swimming lessons to every grade 3 student in the Catholic school board in my city, and many of them have to wear adult sized life jackets. Grade 3 is like 8 years old and they wear the same size lifejacket as me. You think this is okay? You think it better to let them stay like this?

[Ravariel]

At 4/16/09 05:10 PM, JoS wrote: It depends on where you set the bar. Additionally, gym starts at what like grade 1? If we start earlier focusing on fitness there will be less need for remidal work later on.

That is the problem... where DO you set the bar? And how do you determine if the bar's been crossed? Does a kid have to make 5/10 free throws to pass "baskteball"? Does he have to run a mile in 8 minutes? Or should we instead look at progress? And then how do we measure that?

But it should definitely not be about only participation and attitude... some form of improvement should be necessary to do well in any class, PE included.

[Dante-Son-Of-Sparda]

I had a six pack thanks to weight lifting class

[MetalSlimeHunt]

At 4/16/09 05:10 PM, JoS wrote: It depends on where you set the bar. Additionally, gym starts at what like grade 1? If we start earlier focusing on fitness there will be less need for remidal work later on.

And are you seriously arguing that we should let kids be fat and unhealthy because it is safer for them? Do you have any qualification or education regarding health and fitness? If you can't pass minimal fitness standards your health is already in serious jeopardy. These kids are at high risk for everything from diabetes to cancer.

I teach swimming lessons to every grade 3 student in the Catholic school board in my city, and many of them have to wear adult sized life jackets. Grade 3 is like 8 years old and they wear the same size lifejacket as me. You think this is okay? You think it better to let them stay like this?

I am not suggesting that they should stay like that at all. But if a badly out of shape student who cares about their grades dearly, what will they do? The same exact thing Anorixics do: Stop eating and start exersiseing. And I don't mean in moderation, that would be good for them. I mean One bottle of water a day and 8+ hours of exersiseing untill they drop from exaustion. The bar needs to be set at 110% on every individual. The All-Star would have to do way more than the obese kids. One size does not fit all. In a system like that, the all-stars would be bored and the out of shape would be stuggleing. They need to be reguarly re-evaluated and the bar for passing set as such that the can reach it, but in a manner that will not lead to the preaviously discribed nightmare situation. The damiage needs to be reversed gradualy. Also, 8 yr olds in adult life jackets? How... I didn't think that was metabolicly possible for children that young! What the hell are they eating?

[Dante-Son-Of-Sparda]

I got a six pack because of weight lifting class.

[morefngdbs]

I remember winning a silver in an intermurals race in junior high...I went & put a note on it that said "First Loser" ...& ended up getting in shit, plus detention for 'poor attitude' I was only joking around , I was so pissed at detention I decided I'll show you guy's "Attitude" after all gym may have been manditory .
But you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink was my attitude for the rest of my junior years. :)

I wouldn't even put the damn sneakers on so you could go out on the gym floor , detention didn't work, expelling me didn't work , that just got the old man involved & wanting to know how a student with honors , English & Math, grades in the high 80's & in the 90's in Social Studies, Geography, Shop & Science classes ,was going to flunk because of 'attitude' over gym class !

I was happier on my dirt bike kicked out of school , than I was in there. they never had the balls to flunk me for no gym class either :)

ATTITUDE & PURE HATE ... Worked out just fine .