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Logical Society

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pyromaniac616
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Logical Society 2009-04-13 08:11:28 Reply

Newgrounds, do you think that a goverment based purely upon logic, and critical path analysis would work to be a fully functioning society? If you have seen up to bones series three, I mean that a society with only people like Zack, those who are predominatly ruled by logic and sense. If you have not, then Zack is someone who only makes choices if they are logical.

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 08:13:08 Reply

At 4/13/09 08:11 AM, pyromaniac616 wrote: Newgrounds, do you think that a goverment based purely upon logic, and critical path analysis would work to be a fully functioning society? I

Huh... anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.
Like, seriously. You're 100% FOR SURE a dumbass if you answer "no".


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generalwinter
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 08:16:30 Reply

At 4/13/09 08:11 AM, pyromaniac616 wrote: Newgrounds, do you think that a goverment based purely upon logic, and critical path analysis would work to be a fully functioning society?

Just the government? No, because the citizens would not do things for the greater good based on logic.

And I am not a dumbass because my opinion differs from yours.


Those who do not learn from the mistakes of their past are doomed to repeat them.

Ytaker
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 08:36:34 Reply

At 4/13/09 08:11 AM, pyromaniac616 wrote: Newgrounds, do you think that a goverment based purely upon logic, and critical path analysis would work to be a fully functioning society? If you have seen up to bones series three, I mean that a society with only people like Zack, those who are predominatly ruled by logic and sense. If you have not, then Zack is someone who only makes choices if they are logical.

Zack has low self esteem, and autism. He's non functional in society. If everyone was like him, then doctors, teachers, and any other career based on socialization would not exist. Your social intelligence is just as, if not more important than your IQ and mathematical intelligence.

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 08:46:23 Reply

At 4/13/09 08:36 AM, Ytaker wrote:
Zack has low self esteem, and autism. He's non functional in society. If everyone was like him, then doctors, teachers, and any other career based on socialization would not exist. Your social intelligence is just as, if not more important than your IQ and mathematical intelligence.

Yes, but that is not the part of his personality I am basing this on. Although it may well be a factor, I am talking purely about his logc. He does what seems logical, and if a whole society, in which I mean citizens also, behaved like that with additional social skills, then would it work in the long run as a functional society, as long as there would be no outside influences? Bear in mind that this is purely theoretical, and as such, what I am describing can happen in theory. Most probably not in reality, but at least in practice.

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 10:09:50 Reply

At 4/13/09 08:13 AM, poxpower wrote:
Huh... anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.
Like, seriously. You're 100% FOR SURE a dumbass if you answer "no".

Hey why don't you just fucking lock the topic then if that's all you think of it.

I think for it to be successful we would have to have leaders that were fully capable of reconciling emotional populations with logical decisions.

Because humans, when grouped as a nation or any other large group, are far from solely logically decisive?

Right. Or will you just ignore me.

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 10:28:41 Reply

A woman kills her husband after he hit her every day of their marriage.
What punishment does she deserve?


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JackPhantasm
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 10:32:07 Reply

At 4/13/09 10:28 AM, RubberTrucky wrote:
What punishment does she deserve?

No killer deserves punishment. They deserve study and evaluation, and help.

RubberTrucky
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 10:42:45 Reply

At 4/13/09 10:32 AM, JackPhantasm wrote:
No killer deserves punishment. They deserve study and evaluation, and help.

Then what amount and kind of help does she need?


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JackPhantasm
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 10:46:09 Reply

I don't know. Therapy?

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 11:23:11 Reply

At 4/13/09 10:46 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: I don't know. Therapy?

Look at it from a logical sense.

Women get abused by spouses - True
Humans retalitae - True
Non-retalition would cause further harm - True
Retaliation required to permanantly stop harm - True
Retaliate? - Confirm

You cannot blame her, however in a logical society, the husband would not abuse her in the first place, because

Harm - Detrimental
Causing harm - Detrimental unless special occasion permits it
No chance of retaliation - Undetermanable variabe - illogical to assume
Cause harm? - Illogical

Bighead8
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 11:36:55 Reply

Lets face it, humans are illogical, flawed, violent, and yes, stupid. Because of this, this "logical society" can never exist.

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 11:40:08 Reply

At 4/13/09 11:36 AM, Bighead8 wrote: Lets face it, humans are illogical, flawed, violent, and yes, stupid. Because of this, this "logical society" can never exist.

Which is why I proposed it as a theoretical idea.

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:01:08 Reply

At 4/13/09 11:47 AM, KemCab wrote:

This is why I think we should have computers run things for us.

And you just found my next argument, well done.

Realisticly, this could only be done in a society composed of computers.

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:05:23 Reply

At 4/13/09 11:23 AM, pyromaniac616 wrote:
You cannot blame her, however in a logical society, the husband would not abuse her in the first place,

Oh, so society as a whole is binary logical?

How would breeding work? Would we still have enjoyable sex or would it be like "Extract semen from a male, extract egg from female and breed in laboratories." Cause sexual interaction is prone to mistakes and can have bad consequences (see Demolition Man for instance)


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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:11:16 Reply

A society with nothing but logic means no religion.

As if they [the religious and superstitious masses] would ever allow such a society to exist.


I have a pink miniature unicorn in my left testicle. Prove me wrong.

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:17:41 Reply

At 4/13/09 12:11 PM, Aughiris wrote: A society with nothing but logic means no religion.

As if they [the religious and superstitious masses] would ever allow such a society to exist.

It's not really a question whether such a society is likely to grow, but if such a society in existence would work.

I say that it is without doubt a functional society. But to my personal taste, such a society would be a dull one, where humankind becomes nothing more then emotionless robots. I wouldn't want to live in one.


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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:24:16 Reply

The question is not "Will it work?", the question is "Can it exist?"

Yes, but only if a lot of people die first.


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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:29:00 Reply

At 4/13/09 12:05 PM, RubberTrucky wrote: How would breeding work? Would we still have enjoyable sex or would it be like "Extract semen from a male, extract egg from female and breed in laboratories." Cause sexual interaction is prone to mistakes and can have bad consequences (see Demolition Man for instance)

Why would a society based on logic be devoid of emotion? Why can't we all agree that love and sex are nice to have? The logical society could agree to go through normal human emotions.

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:36:36 Reply

At 4/13/09 12:05 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:

Would we still have enjoyable sex

It is logical, as it would increase the morale of the society, which is advantageous, therfore, yes.

At 4/13/09 12:17 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:
where humankind becomes nothing more then emotionless robots.

I personaly disagree with this, due to the fact that only negative emotions are illogical.

At 4/13/09 12:24 PM, MrCrawford wrote: The question is not "Will it work?", the question is "Can it exist?"

Yes, but only if a lot of people die first.

If it does work, then it does not matter how many die as long as there is still a functionable amount to continue the race. Heard of the phrase "Sacrifice one life for the lives of the many?"

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:39:09 Reply

At 4/13/09 12:29 PM, aninjaman wrote:
Why would a society based on logic be devoid of emotion?

Ever so often logic and emotion are two different opinions. Emotion is what creates multiple solutions, logic is simply the sum of the bests. Things like love and friendship, for instance, hold us back to attain our proper goals. The only reason why love and friendship can be logical, is when they further our own goals. So we should pick our friends according to how much we need them or might need them and stop wasting our time with losers who can't help us. It is also no use to maintain a friendship when we want instant gratification of our needs. Friendship, thus, should be limited to bargaining of help.
Also, pleasure is something that gets in the way of achieving useful things. If people stopped practising their hobbies surfing the net and playing counterstrike, they should have had more time to study things and solve logical puzzles.

Why can't we all agree that love and sex are nice to have?

Sex in peculiar is even potentially dangerous because of STD's and even using condoms isn't protecting us a 100%. So sex is only usefull to breed our human race and so this can be easily accomplished in laboratories.

The logical society could agree to go through normal human emotions.

This depends of course in what degree you want the society to be logical. A full logical society wouldn't tolerate emotions. Heck, if we are all 100% logic, we wouldn't need emotions anyway.


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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:44:06 Reply

At 4/13/09 08:46 AM, pyromaniac616 wrote:
At 4/13/09 08:36 AM, Ytaker wrote:
Zack has low self esteem, and autism. He's non functional in society. If everyone was like him, then doctors, teachers, and any other career based on socialization would not exist. Your social intelligence is just as, if not more important than your IQ and mathematical intelligence.
Yes, but that is not the part of his personality I am basing this on. Although it may well be a factor, I am talking purely about his logc. He does what seems logical, and if a whole society, in which I mean citizens also, behaved like that with additional social skills, then would it work in the long run as a functional society, as long as there would be no outside influences? Bear in mind that this is purely theoretical, and as such, what I am describing can happen in theory. Most probably not in reality, but at least in practice.

His logical mindset is due to his lack of social skills. If they behaved like him, then they would not have social skills. There's a trade off between logic and emotion, and large benefits to emotional.

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 12:54:09 Reply

At 4/13/09 12:44 PM, Ytaker wrote:

His logical mindset is due to his lack of social skills. If they behaved like him, then they would not have social skills. There's a trade off between logic and emotion, and large benefits to emotional.

Given the choice, I would be logical, no matter at what expense. I have no social skills anyway.

So I am similiar to him in a few ways, and in mindsets.
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 13:14:46 Reply

At 4/13/09 08:11 AM, pyromaniac616 wrote: Newgrounds, do you think that a goverment based purely upon logic, and critical path analysis would work to be a fully functioning society?

No more or less "fully functioning" than any other government. Actually I don't even think that a "government based purely on logic" could even get off the ground successfully.

Besides, it's just kinda funny to me how some people seem to equate logicality with this idea that the reasoning must be perfect because it's based on some sequential logical process. Logic can and often is frought with mistakes... hell, that's one of the reasons why the Latin language still gets any burn: for giving fancy-sounding names to all the numerous, different types of fallacious reasoning out there.


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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 13:24:24 Reply

At 4/13/09 12:39 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:
At 4/13/09 12:29 PM, aninjaman wrote:
Why would a society based on logic be devoid of emotion?
Ever so often logic and emotion are two different opinions.

But emotions exist for a logical purpose. We developed them through evoloution.

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 13:29:02 Reply

At 4/13/09 01:24 PM, aninjaman wrote: But emotions exist for a logical purpose. We developed them through evoloution.

In that case, society as we know it, is already a logical one. No problem exists and the case is closed.


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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 13:37:47 Reply

At 4/13/09 01:29 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:
At 4/13/09 01:24 PM, aninjaman wrote: But emotions exist for a logical purpose. We developed them through evoloution.
In that case, society as we know it, is already a logical one. No problem exists and the case is closed.

Damn. Got me there.
Then a logical a 100% society would collapse if it ever got up in the first place because it would require us to suppress our emotions. Which is impossible.

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 13:38:02 Reply

At 4/13/09 01:29 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:
In that case, society as we know it, is already a logical one. No problem exists and the case is closed.

But our society is illogical, you just have to look at tobbacco. It has one or two positive benefits, but is generaly illogical, so they would not exist in a logical society.

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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 13:38:40 Reply

Society needs to be based off a mix of logic and emotion.

Too much logic and you start to be apathetic and acting like robots

Too much emotion and you start to fly off the handle on any decision at a whim

pyromaniac616
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Response to Logical Society 2009-04-13 13:44:17 Reply

At 4/13/09 01:38 PM, MetalSlimeHunt wrote: Society needs to be based off a mix of logic and emotion.

Too much logic and you start to be apathetic and acting like robots

Too much emotion and you start to fly off the handle on any decision at a whim

I already am apathetic, and rather robotic. I do not have that much emotion either. In my eyes, this would be my perfect life.