US soldiers get away with evrything

[lapslf]

In the Netherlands there is a lot of fuzz going on right now about a Dutch Sergeant who shot an Iraqi in the back from a distance of 100 meters. He got arrested for murder and is in trial now. Sounds allright doesn't it? If you shoot someone for no valid reason you should be arrested.

The fun thing is, this never happens to any US soldiers. Two days ago, an entire Iraqi family was killed because US soldiers opened fire on their car, just because they passed a militairy post without stopping. The soldiers did not get any kind of punishment.

Officially, the American government has set up some rules about this in August. An Iraqi can charge a US soldier for any material or physical damage if he can prove that the soldier acted wrong or irresponsably and that it did not happen in a war action.

Well how the fuck are you gonna prove it wasn't a war action, or even that it was wrong to shoot? This has made it almost impossible to get any punishment for the soldiers or any money from the US government to restore the damage they caused.

The Dutch Sergeant was charged by the ministry of justice of his own country. I have yet to see the Americans do something like that. So much for bringing freedom and justice to the Iraqi people.

[EvilGovernmentAgents]

At 1/7/04 09:19 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: In the Netherlands there is a lot of fuzz going on right now about a Dutch Sergeant who shot an Iraqi in the back from a distance of 100 meters. He got arrested for murder and is in trial now. Sounds allright doesn't it? If you shoot someone for no valid reason you should be arrested.

So let me see. If you shoot at a enemy combatant and kill him and another civilian by accident, you get arrested? And I`d like to see the circumstances behind the shooting please.

The fun thing is, this never happens to any US soldiers. Two days ago, an entire Iraqi family was killed because US soldiers opened fire on their car, just because they passed a militairy post without stopping. The soldiers did not get any kind of punishment.

Just ``because``? Oh no. People who pass a military post without stopping do exactly the same thing as suicide bombers do. In combat, soldiers are trained to think of themselves and the men next to them first. That takes priority over anything else, and the men made their choice. They saw a very possible threat and opened fire. How is that against any rules of engagement?

Officially, the American government has set up some rules about this in August. An Iraqi can charge a US soldier for any material or physical damage if he can prove that the soldier acted wrong or irresponsably and that it did not happen in a war action.
Well how the fuck are you gonna prove it wasn't a war action, or even that it was wrong to shoot? This has made it almost impossible to get any punishment for the soldiers or any money from the US government to restore the damage they caused.

So you`re saying that people should find it easier to win against the U.S. govt? And how is it impossible? There`s still a thing called the court, and cross examination of the stories told by the defendant.

The Dutch Sergeant was charged by the ministry of justice of his own country. I have yet to see the Americans do something like that. So much for bringing freedom and justice to the Iraqi people.

Apparently, every govt.`s form of justice and view of justice must be the same. I don`t know the circumstances behind the dutch sarge, but don`t tell me that the American shooting was totally and utterly unprovoked.

[AleksM]

Vegg you are right. America needs more discipline. They think they can run around in other peoples countries and do whatever they want. Well no they cant. Cause eventually they will fuck up by trying to get into another country while taht country is real anti-american. This will be the fall of the US military.

[lapslf]

At 1/7/04 09:35 AM, Unpossibility wrote: So let me see. If you shoot at a enemy combatant and kill him and another civilian by accident, you get arrested? And I`d like to see the circumstances behind the shooting please.

It wasn't an enemy cobatant, it was a citizen. Read before you speak will ya? As for the circumstances, there was some looting going on and the soldier who was part of the "quick reaction force" that was sent to stop this. The Iraqi's did not have any fire arms, and the soldier shot him at a 100 meters distance, so it wasn't excactly a life threatning situation, now was it?

Just ``because``? Oh no. People who pass a military post without stopping do exactly the same thing as suicide bombers do. In combat, soldiers are trained to think of themselves and the men next to them first. That takes priority over anything else, and the men made their choice. They saw a very possible threat and opened fire. How is that against any rules of engagement?

You could be a terrorist too, so should I just shoot you? It was a car with an unarmed family inside, so it wasn't a threat at all. Just because the car didn't stop does not gave them a reason to shoot. That is against any rule of engagement.

So you`re saying that people should find it easier to win against the U.S. govt? And how is it impossible? There`s still a thing called the court, and cross examination of the stories told by the defendant.

Well mister smarty pants, the thing is, HOW do you proof that the soldiers acted unjust? How do you prove it wasn't an act of war? The Iraqi's have to figure this out, and unless you have a videotape of the actual accident it's very hard to prove anything.

Apparently, every govt.`s form of justice and view of justice must be the same. I don`t know the circumstances behind the dutch sarge, but don`t tell me that the American shooting was totally and utterly unprovoked.

Well, I just think the American government should be responsible for the acts of it's troops and should punish them when they misbehave. And I'd say you could hardly call the American shooting provoked. All the car did was not stopping. They did not shoot or anything. Besides, these are not by far the only civillian deaths that the Americans have unjustly caused so far. A lot more of these things happen and no US soldier has ever been punished so far. Perhaps sometimes they were right to shoot, but I highly doubt they were in all of those cases.

[Dagodevas]

At 1/7/04 09:19 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: The fun thing is, this never happens to any US soldiers. Two days ago, an entire Iraqi family was killed because US soldiers opened fire on their car, just because they passed a militairy post without stopping. The soldiers did not get any kind of punishment.

Well, theoretically, they were just doing their job. Would you rather have them just let every car that could potentially be carrying suicide bombers or dangerous weapons slide past that checkpoint unnoticed? I know that sounds pretty mean-spirited, but it’s true.

[bumcheekcity]

At 1/7/04 12:01 PM, Dagodevas wrote:

At 1/7/04 09:19 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: The fun thing is, this never happens to any US soldiers. Two days ago, an entire Iraqi family was killed because US soldiers opened fire on their car, just because they passed a militairy post without stopping. The soldiers did not get any kind of punishment.

Well, theoretically, they were just doing their job. Would you rather have them just let every car that could potentially be but it’s true.carrying suicide bombers or dangerous weapons slide past that checkpoint unnoticed? I know that sounds pretty mean-spirited,

Theoretically, yes. They were just doing their job, but they should have checked. We can't just have our soldiors shooting people because they MIGHT be daangerous.

[Dagodevas]

At 1/7/04 12:21 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: Theoretically, yes. They were just doing their job, but they should have checked. We can't just have our soldiors shooting people because they MIGHT be daangerous.

Checked? I thought the car drove through the checkpoint. It's not like it's stopping.

[Callmesweettea]

I was in the U. S. Army for a couple of years and my husband is over there in the sands right now. i have been around the military for years now and soldiers do get in trouble and have to obey laws. and they have to follow orders, other wise they can put their lives and the lives of their fellows in peril. soldiers cant do whatever ever they want where ever they want. i have been living overseas for 4 years and i have known soldiers who get convicted for breaking laws. soldiers get tickets and have to pay them and all that stuff. there are reasons for JAG and SOFA agreements. There are lots of soldiers getting hurt from sneaky ass suicide bobers and such so they have to be careful. sometimes you dont have time to check to see if people are too dangerous or not especially if they dont follow instructions such as HALT or Dont come any closer or you will be shot. I would like my friends and family to come back home alive.

[BWS]

At 1/7/04 10:32 AM, Aleks777 wrote: They think they can run around in other peoples countries and do whatever they want. Well no they cant.

Insofar as this argument is concerned, the actions are not illegal because they are at war. It may not be right, but it is not illegal. And when you say "they" you are meaning who?

Cause eventually they will fuck up by trying to get into another country while taht country is real anti-american. This will be the fall of the US military.

Right. Let me guess, since they are like anti-american, they we like destroy our military...please. Do you actually think that what you said is logical?

[Ravens-Grin]

At 1/7/04 10:35 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: It wasn't an enemy cobatant, it was a citizen. Read before you speak will ya? As for the circumstances, there was some looting going on and the soldier who was part of the "quick reaction force" that was sent to stop this. The Iraqi's did not have any fire arms, and the soldier shot him at a 100 meters distance, so it wasn't excactly a life threatning situation, now was it?

Looting without any kind of weapons? That seems odd to me, how about you?

You could be a terrorist too, so should I just shoot you? It was a car with an unarmed family inside, so it wasn't a threat at all. Just because the car didn't stop does not gave them a reason to shoot. That is against any rule of engagement.

The people were at a checkpoint. They were supposed to stop. Because they did not stop even with weapons probably drawn on them, they were shot once they passed the checkpoint. Many smugglers do not want to stop at a checkpoint because they know they will get caught. If you can distinguish between a family that means no harm and a family that has weapons hidden underneath the seat then the US army probably needs you over there as well as the Iraqis. The thing is, you can't distinguish between the two. You have difficulties imagining things don't you?

So you`re saying that people should find it easier to win against the U.S. govt? And how is it impossible? There`s still a thing called the court, and cross examination of the stories told by the defendant.

Well mister smarty pants, the thing is, HOW do you proof that the soldiers acted unjust? How do you prove it wasn't an act of war? The Iraqi's have to figure this out, and unless you have a videotape of the actual accident it's very hard to prove anything.

You have a misconception of Americans. Your thinking if a group of American soldiers goes downtown Baghdad and one of them shoots an Iraqi for "fun" that the others will shut their mouths. That is not true, far from the truth. More likely the soldiers will report to the officer of the one persons action. Also, the trial would probably be dealt in private because that is how our military does trials.

[Quiche]

Why didn't the American soldiers just shoot the tires?

[adrshepard]

At 1/7/04 09:19 AM, Veggiemeal wrote:

The fun thing is, this never happens to any US soldiers. Two days ago, an entire Iraqi family was killed because US soldiers opened fire on their car, just because they passed a militairy post without stopping. The soldiers did not get any kind of punishment.

Yeah, its totally unjustified! A suspicious car disobeys military orders in wartime, which for all the soldiers know is a suicide vehicle, and they destroy it after giving warning shots! What nerve! The Iraqi people should feel free to disobey troops and roadblocks without being attacked!

Well how the fuck are you gonna prove it wasn't a war action, or even that it was wrong to shoot? This has made it almost impossible to get any punishment for the soldiers or any money from the US government to restore the damage they caused.

Yeah, because most of the Iraqis that are killed ignored the troops and their orders before they were fired upon. I don't know about you, but if a strong military force was in my country I'd be careful moving around.

The Dutch Sergeant was charged by the ministry of justice of his own country. I have yet to see the Americans do something like that. So much for bringing freedom and justice to the Iraqi people.

Yeah, we should just reinstate Saddam and he can imprison, murder, torture, and probably rape the Iraqi people.

[bumcheekcity]

At 1/7/04 03:48 PM, Quiche wrote: Why didn't the American soldiers just shoot the tires?

Yeah, if they're so great why do they have to blow the whole truck up?

[ichbincow]

At 1/7/04 03:48 PM, Quiche wrote: Why didn't the American soldiers just shoot the tires?

You watch too much TV.....A MILITARY CHECKPOINT has you falling under only 3 catagoreis=1)Your a threat 2)Your a potnetial threat 3)your a non threat.

Frankly I would like to see commentary made by someone that understands the subject under debate--as for why they didnt "shoot the tires"---The car can still move and the occupants of the vehicle have the opportunity to shoot at not only the guards but may in fact shoot innocent people (ie..people who stopped at the checkpoint)...its is not easy to get a clean shot at a fast moveing object....If they could have used a more nonlethal means of stopping the vehicle safely they would have---please review your rules for DEADLY FORCE USAGE...yes i was in the military and have stood arned watches---no fun and stress filled...Personally I feel with all this hoopla someone else would step up to the plate and TAKE OVER from what the US is trying to do---so far I see NO ONE willing to fully undertake the responsiblites...Just remember that someone else is sacrificeing so that you can enjoy your freedooms.

[bumcheekcity]

As you are driving up to the checkpoint you are a potential threat, you aren't guilty until proven so. We assume peole are innocent, why do you assume Iraquis are all going to blow themselves up?

[adrshepard]

Iraq is still a warzone. There is no real stability yet. The Iraqis don't have the rights that we have yet. They have human rights, but not political rights. They will eventually, but not until those who are actively trying to kill soldiers are stopped.

[Fedges]

At 1/7/04 10:35 AM, Veggiemeal wrote:

At 1/7/04 09:35 AM, Unpossibility wrote:

opened fire. How is that against any rules of engagement?

You could be a terrorist too, so should I just shoot you? It was a car with an unarmed family inside, so it wasn't a threat at all. Just because the car didn't stop does not gave them a reason to shoot. That is against any rule of engagement.

How were the soldiers supposed to know that there was an unarmed family in the car? If they drove through an army checkpoint without stopping, they could easily be terrorists. How what if it was a car bomb, or their were suicide bombers? If they weren't terrorist why didn't theys stop at the checkpoint? I know that they were an unarmed family, but how did the soldiers know that

Also I think it's unfair how heavily scutinized the U.S. army is in. In every days new paper there is some kind of arrticle about the situation in Iraq, also every U.S. death is made a big deal of. We are in a war, we will have casualties, if you consider the number of deaths, i think this is the lowest casualty war ever for us.

[Sterling-Sinner]

I'm a United States Soldier. I have many friends in Iraq and it's looking as though I may be joining them soon. You sit at home at your damn computer and try to sound all high and mighty about our soldiers in Iraq yet you have no idea what's really going on over there. You're an idiot for your oversights.
Where did you get the whole story from? A news report? Can you really believe a news place anyway? what if they were putting their own twist on the whole situation to get more interest in their show or newspaper? They could be right but i know how the military works and it wouldn't go unpunished for a soldier to act like that. Unless you've heard this story from another witness or a soldier then I suggest you think long and hard about your sources you idiot. How dare you say something like that about my brothers, my family.
As for that family that was shot in Iraq, it is sad and unfortunate yet if they drove by a base without stopping they could have been scouts, they could have been terrorists, they could have been Iraqi military. It became a safety issue once they did not stop. I doubt they were even driving past a post as you said. You've already proved your stupidity so it was probably as they drove past a checkpoint and, of course, that's going to warrant our soldiers to open fire after the suicide attack on another checkpoint that claimed our soldiers lives. They were acting in interest of safety. Just as a police officer would fire upon a suspect who reaches in his coat suddenly.
You sicken me. Sitting at your damn computer with some excuse that you can't serve your country and criticizing those who fight for the very name you hide under as an American. I wouldn't be surprised if you were overweight and living with your parents. You have no idea what it's like to be a soldier and what it's like to fight a war. We're not fighting a force that is clearly defined as we did in WWII against other countries who actually wore a distinctive uniform. We're fighting an army that is in civilian clothes as we did in Viet Nam and many other instances. That can really induce fear on you that you could be killed by anyone walking in the city.
All I can say is that you should be ashamed of your malicious comments. There are a lot of things wrong with the military, but nothing is perfect. We're an elite fighting force and we actually earn our titles and ranks. You have no idea what it's like so don't act like you're above us and you can say what we should be doing or what is wrong. You're unbelievably stupid and I fear that you're only one of the many that will try to harm our country from the inside.
So cruise your damn internet, eat your McDonald's, dream of being important, and shut your damn mouth about our military because we've earned our respect and you haven't.

[Sterling-Sinner]

At 1/7/04 10:32 AM, Aleks777 wrote: Vegg you are right. America needs more discipline. They think they can run around in other peoples countries and do whatever they want. Well no they cant. Cause eventually they will fuck up by trying to get into another country while taht country is real anti-american. This will be the fall of the US military.

I think you should shut your damn mouth too. Unless you're a soldier you shouldn't think you're better than our military to take such a pompous and arrogant position. Keep your face on the damn computer screen and leave the military alone. We know what the hell we're doing and we do it well. Try doing what our soliders do instead of being fat, dumb, and happy behind our US Military's protection

[swaenK]

Damn, it feels good to be, Canadian.

[Sterling-Sinner]

At 1/8/04 01:33 AM, Kaosboy85 wrote: Sterling Sinner I salute you and thank you for saving me a lot of typing. I was just getting ready to throw my computer out the window from reading this red-dipper-doper baby dribble. You just covered everything I was pissed off about. As for everyone else stop watching TV (rather stop believing everything you see on TV is true) and remove your heads from your rectum!

My pleasure. At least someone else out there has a good level of intelligence. Glad to have you aboard Kaos. Everyone else needs to stop letting the media think for them and stop acting like they know how the military works or like they're better than the military. Fight the Media!

[Sterling-Sinner]

At 1/7/04 04:12 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: As you are driving up to the checkpoint you are a potential threat, you aren't guilty until proven so. We assume peole are innocent, why do you assume Iraquis are all going to blow themselves up?

Stop thinking, you'll hurt yourself

[lapslf]

At 1/8/04 12:34 AM, Sterling_Sinner wrote:

:A lot of stuff about how bad I am and how great he and his trigger happy friends are.

First of all, you criticize me about how I say stuff about the military without knowing anything about it. Well, I'm not American (thank god) so I couldn't "harm your country from the inside". Also, I'm very skinny and I'm a vegetarian and I have some real ideals (not some shit a drill sergeant has pumped into my head, like some other people) so I don't eat at McDonald's. So much for my overweightness. I do still live with my parents but that's not exactly a surprise since I'm only 17. And I would rather get fucked in my ass by an elephant before I'd be so stupid to join the army. You call me stupid, but at least I'm smart enough to have proper education and I'll be able to find a real job where I don't get paid by shooting people. Or perhaps you did have some education, and that would make you even more stupid for wasting that by joining the military.

About the shooting thing at the car. Okay, perhaps this wasn't the best example. But as I said before, this just one of many. I posted this thread because a Dutch soldier was arrested because he shot an Iraqi, and I have yet to hear about a US soldier being busted for something like that. Now would you explain me how is could be that your great army does not punish any US soldiers when they recklessly shoot people in Iraq? I mean, shit like this happen in Iraq: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm but no soldier has ever been arrested in Iraq yet. So either the newspapers and channels are lying, or you are.

[Sterling-Sinner]

At 1/8/04 02:45 AM, Veggiemeal wrote:

At 1/8/04 12:34 AM, Sterling_Sinner wrote: A lot of stuff about how bad I am and how great he and his trigger happy friends are.

First of all, you criticize me about how I say stuff about the military without knowing anything about it. Well, I'm not American (thank god) so I couldn't "harm your country from the inside". Also, I'm very skinny and I'm a vegetarian and I have some real ideals (not some shit a drill sergeant has pumped into my head, like some other people) so I don't eat at McDonald's. So much for my overweightness. I do still live with my parents but that's not exactly a surprise since I'm only 17. And I would rather get fucked in my ass by an elephant before I'd be so stupid to join the army. You call me stupid, but at least I'm smart enough to have proper education and I'll be able to find a real job where I don't get paid by shooting people. Or perhaps you did have some education, and that would make you even more stupid for wasting that by joining the military.

About the shooting thing at the car. Okay, perhaps this wasn't the best example. But as I said before, this just one of many. I posted this thread because a Dutch soldier was arrested because he shot an Iraqi, and I have yet to hear about a US soldier being busted for something like that. Now would you explain me how is could be that your great army does not punish any US soldiers when they recklessly shoot people in Iraq? I mean, shit like this happen in Iraq: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm but no soldier has ever been arrested in Iraq yet. So either the newspapers and channels are lying, or you are.

I never said we were great. Only better than someone as stupid as you are. For being 17 you sure do have a mouth on you, boy, and I'd watch it. You have no idea what it's like. I'm currently earning my degree in philosophy and the Army is paying for it. When I get my degree I will have paid nothing for it. All of my battle buddies are also persuing their degrees but serving their country as well. I'll have you know that we're not paid for shooting people. We're paid for doing our jobs and doing what it takes to stay alive. We're not trigger happy. Perhaps you shouldn't be a mindless idiot and believe everything you read. Are you that stupid to believe that newspapers and reporters would never lie? Do you still believe in Santa Claus too? Fucking idiot. The media isn't half as interested in the truth as getting more subscribers. Don't be so gullible.
I don't get these opinions because my drill sergeants told me to believe it. I get it because it's what I'm experiencing. I'm only told how to do my job. I know you'd like to get fucked in the ass by animals. I'm sure you do it enough to be as stupid as to believe that we go unpunished for unjust acts. You aren't in the Army so you don't know what happens when the cameras are turned off. Do you? You are a fucking idiot, believing what the media says. They don't hear about the military justice, the reprocussions of our soldier's actions. They only report the stuff that would get people stirred up. Perhaps you shouldn't participate in a topic that you have no idea about. You're only a boy, you have no clue what we're going through and what happens when the cameras aren't rolling. The civilian world never gets the full story. Only the controversial stuff.
So since you were stupid enough to think I wasn't getting a proper education that just shows you how absoloutely clueless you are as to how the military works. You'll never see. You're only a boy that listens to what the media tells him. So fickle. Run along and try to catch the next trend before you miss it. I hope the bandwagon still has a seat left for you. Don't try to make a topic out of something you don't know. You're in over your head and it truly shows.

[Sterling-Sinner]

Let's look at this from a distance............
That kid talks about military justice. How we get away with everything. He says he'll never be stupid enough to join the army, yet doesn't realize an American soldier can get just as good an education as anyone else, but costs him less. He says we're trigger happy, yet he's never been in combat so he doesn't know what real combat is.
In a nutshell he's trying to take a position that he clearly doesn't have the grounds to support, being a non-American and not even an adult. Plus, his only information source is the media, which isn't very trustworthy. So he tries to make an argument against something that he knows Very little about. How effective is that?? It's not effective at all. So far he's only proved that he's nowhere near the position to argue such a point.
When I made the assumption he was an American and was overweight and already out of school, which he wasn't any of that, how effective was that? it wasn't effective because I didn't have enough information about him.
Isnt' that similar to what he's trying to say about the military? He doesn't have enough info so it's not effective, just as my earlier insult wasn't effective because I didn't have enough info.
So, the point we proved here is that he's ignorant because he's pretending to know something he doesn't while basing his conclusion on a single source of information that can easily be tainted and manipulated. What does that say about his opinion? It says that he's a weak person who believes what he's told and jumps to conclusions. Such a person is clearly unable to partake in an intelligent conversation and any further opinion on this topic by the aforementioned boy should be ignored.
Thank you Veggiemeal for proving your own stupidity I hope that vegetarian nonsense works out and I pray that you do get that previously mentioned 'proper education' so you can learn how to make a clear, concise, and educated argument without relying on fallacies to base your conclusion. I hope that your life isn't as easily led by others as your mind is......

[cockjockey]

At 1/8/04 02:45 AM, Veggiemeal wrote:

At 1/8/04 12:34 AM, Sterling_Sinner wrote: A lot of stuff about how bad I am and how great he and his trigger happy friends are.

I'm only 17.

:I don't get paid by shooting people.

The first quote sums up why the second one was allowed to happen. It's amazing the way you were able to simplify military politics for us all, for example, I now know that everyone in the military is stupid. Including all the officers who got in on the basis of University Majors/degrees, and including whoever happens to be president at the time.
From this we can conclude that every single president of the united states that ever lived was stupid. Think how humbling that is. I'm from the UK, and we lost the battle of independence, as much as we bitch about cheating and whatnot, we still lost. To a military which must've been stupid. Run by a commander in chief who was... stupid. So how fucking stupid are we for losing this battle? Very. Go back to your Moby albums and stop this propaganda nonsense.

[Sterling-Sinner]

My point exactly. Illustrated through another user. I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to agree with me or not

[lapslf]

Okay, perhaps I was stereotyping soldiers a bit, and that wasn't very intelligent. But you just kinda pissed me off by calling me stupid and overweight. And just because I'm not and adult and not American doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion about things. By saying so you don't make a really smart impression either.

I don't believe everything the media tells me, but this isn't about what the media told me. I mean, the media never told me that no US soldiers ever get busted, but I've also never heard of any soldier who did. If they do, then prove me wrong before calling me stupid. You have not done that so far. It's just very hard to believe for me that the soldiers in Iraq don't shoot people for no good reason from time to time. Just look at that video fragment. Of course, sometimes they do have good reasons to shoot and afterwards it turned out unnescessary (or how the fuck you spell that stupid word). Anyway, (as far as I know) no US soldier have ever been arrested and I found that awkward so I posted this threat. I don't know what's true or not, so I posted this to find out more. That's why people discuss things, to get to know more, mkay? So don't immediatly start flaming me just because my opinion is different.

At 1/8/04 12:34 AM, Sterling_Sinner wrote: and shut your damn mouth about our military because we've earned our respect and you haven't.

You hear that? That's the sound of feedom. Free to say no more.

[Taxman2A]

At 1/8/04 06:43 AM, cockjockey wrote:

The first quote sums up why the second one was allowed to happen. It's amazing the way you were able to simplify military politics for us all, for example, I now know that everyone in the military is stupid. Including all the officers who got in on the basis of University Majors/degrees, and including whoever happens to be president at the time.
From this we can conclude that every single president of the united states that ever lived was stupid. Think how humbling that is. I'm from the UK, and we lost the battle of independence, as much as we bitch about cheating and whatnot, we still lost. To a military which must've been stupid. Run by a commander in chief who was... stupid. So how fucking stupid are we for losing this battle? Very. Go back to your Moby albums and stop this propaganda nonsense.

This is the most amazingly brilliant post ever written. Please post more often. Can you imagine? A European Newgrounds user who doesn't use every single opportunity to flame the US? Why, you better watch it there, CockJockey, if I didn't know any better I would say you are an objective thinker who visits this website for a reason other than trying to blame all your problems on the US.

Good job bringing up Officers. I myself graduated college with a 3.6 GPA, yet I must still be unbelievably stupid to have joined the military. Jeeze, if I was smarter I would have been like everyone else at my university and gotten a job that would have stuck me in a cubicle for all eternity. That would have been so much smarter than having an enjoyable job that pays a competitive salary. I really regret doing a job I can feel proud of, rather than sitting in an office all day busting my ass to make some rich guy richer.