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At 4/4/09 04:43 PM, poxpower wrote: So which is it you tard? 1000 or 50 000? IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
And guess what? The universe is not 6000 days old or 300 000 days old.

By saying 1000, then 50,000 (then some other verse in between) shows that here it was meant periods, not specific days, periods that we do not know how long they are. (or at least is not stated)

By now, it's about 5 329 000 000 000 days old. PLUS ONE MINUTE.

Once again, the Qur'an does not give a date of how old the Universe is, it only says that the Earthwas created in six periods.

Do you have any scientific proof for creationism? Believing in something when there is no scientific proof is defying science.

All I"m saying is, creationism in Qur'an is not explained in detail, so for all I know, the Big Bang theory is creationism in Islam.

good to be back in these religious threads

At 4/4/09 04:48 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: All I"m saying is, creationism in Qur'an is not explained in detail, so for all I know, the Big Bang theory is creationism in Islam.

Saying something like maybe, potentially, kinda these two things aren't mutually exculsive doesn't mean anything.
It doesn't matter if ti potentially could be right it only matters if you have proof creationsim is right.

I guess I didn't phrase my point clearly

What I mean is creationism is NOT in the Qur'an with enough detail to disprove any scientific theories about how the world was created. So I can not believe in creationism, because it's not there. It never says when or how long, only that it took six periods.

At 3/21/09 03:01 AM, Triented wrote: There are many religions in the world, some that turn the McDonald's Diet, into the McDonald's diety, but one thing in every religion to be kept dear is devotion.
Islam, a religion discriminated against in the United States, looses respect due to their punishable ways, and killing of millions.
Still in all however, Islam deserves respect for being so devoted to their faith. I completely oppose the ways that some Muslims express their devotion, but it is still, so tight of a bond to devotion, that they deserve the respect.

You may think that I'm talking just of terrorism, you're wrong. I talk also of the theocracy that it has formed. Saudi Arabia, to us, may not seem like the best of countries to live, but I respect Saudi Arabia not FOR being a theocracy, but AS a theocracy.
If there is any theocracy that is strictly bonded to one religion, then it is Saudi Arabia.

Terrorism, not all of it is done by Muslims. There are also Christians that blow up abortion clinics (Killing more people than one Abortion would.)
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Ideas? Thoughts? Questions? (I was bored)
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Devotion to what?

If you think it is a good thing to cling to bronze-age ethics and morals; to pretending there is no such thing as scientific evidence; to tell lies to children which will put them in a disposition to get stuck in the "devotion" their parents are also caught up in; to think that some people are better than others; to think you can tell others they are wrong because your book says so; to devote yourself to wasting resources, time, energy and thought on something that deserves only non-existence - then you are very deluded indeed.

What is there in religion to respect?

The imaginary friend that is always there to comfort you? The pretending that death is not the end for you? Two centuries old cultural values to base your feeling of right and wrong on? The social gathering of fellow pretenders (a.k.a. "believers")?

At 4/4/09 04:10 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:

creationism

Why does creationism have to defy science? It doesn't

Creationism:
the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.

Yes, it does defy Science.

At 4/4/09 05:21 PM, Brick-top wrote:

At 4/4/09 04:10 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:

creationism

Why does creationism have to defy science? It doesn't

Creationism:
the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.

Yes, it does defy Science.

A rather odd description, since evolution has little to do with the origin of life - let alone the beginning of the universe (if there ever was any to begin with).

At 4/4/09 05:24 PM, Diederick wrote:

Yes, it does defy Science.

A rather odd description, since evolution has little to do with the origin of life - let alone the beginning of the universe (if there ever was any to begin with).

It's the dictionary definition, not mine.

The rest of the definitions basically say a literal interpretation as said in Genesis.

At 4/3/09 01:30 PM, Brick-top wrote: Yes, Religious Education (or RE) should probably be taught in schools. But not as an alternative to established facts.

Yes exactly, if you teach just one then it's too extreme. Science is fact and theory, it can only find out so much.

At 4/4/09 04:43 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 4/4/09 04:10 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:

In the Qur'an it is not specifically written how the Earth or the Universe was created, nor does it say how long it took (yes it is written six days, but "days" here means periods. As in later verses it said that a day to God is a thousand of yours, and a day to God is fifty thousand of yours)

So which is it you tard? 1000 or 50 000? IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
And guess what? The universe is not 6000 days old or 300 000 days old.

Who's the tard?

Guess what!
6000 days would be the time it took, for god to CREATE everything, NOT the full age of the universe. same goes for the 300k

What he is saying and in which he is correct, is that there is no clear mentioning of the age of the planet in neither the quoran nor the bible.

At 4/4/09 07:56 PM, Pugberto wrote:

At 4/3/09 01:30 PM, Brick-top wrote: Yes, Religious Education (or RE) should probably be taught in schools. But not as an alternative to established facts.

Yes exactly, if you teach just one then it's too extreme. Science is fact and theory, it can only find out so much.

Science is an amazing method of gaining knowledge. However if facts are overthrown by unsupported claims then knowledge has been corrupted.

LOL.
If scientists said tomorow that they have discovered the earth is 6000 years old, ALL christians would get major hard-ons and claim that the bible said so all along.

There's lots of evidence for evolution and it's believed by 98% of scientists, and it's been disproved over and over again. The Earth is billions of years old. Are you saying that during these billions of years everything just stayed the same?

At 4/5/09 08:07 AM, Ericho wrote: There's lots of evidence for evolution and it's believed by 98% of scientists, and it's been disproved over and over again. The Earth is billions of years old. Are you saying that during these billions of years everything just stayed the same?

What makes it a billion years old aside from us calling a billion years a billion years?

At 4/5/09 08:07 AM, Ericho wrote: and it's been disproved over and over again.

Typo?

At 4/4/09 08:16 PM, Brick-top wrote: Science is an amazing method of gaining knowledge. However if facts are overthrown by unsupported claims then knowledge has been corrupted.

It is an amazing method of gaining knowledge, I've done a two years course in science. Faith is more of a way of strengthening the body and spirit, making you a better person. The teachings of Jesus are still good religious or not, as for the rest of the Bible parts are a bit sketchy and controversial.

At 4/5/09 10:08 PM, Pugberto wrote:

Faith is more of a way of strengthening the body and spirit, making you a better person.

What a crock of shit.
First off, you can't strengthen your "spirit" if it doesn't even exist, can you?
And faith doesn't make your body stronger in any way, shape or form. A gym, on the other hand, will.

And faith doesn't make people better by any standard I can imagine. Other, of course, than the standard that religious people have set for themselves that says "the more faith you have, the better you are".

At 4/5/09 11:15 PM, poxpower wrote:
What a crock of shit.
First off, you can't strengthen your "self" if it doesn't even exist, can you?
And your state of mind doesn't make your body stronger in any way, shape or form. A gym, on the other hand, will.

And your state of mind doesn't make people better by any standard I can imagine. Other, of course, than the standard that religious people have set for themselves that says "the more self-will you have, the better you are".

I refer to my above post and will let you examine and maybe tell me exactly how or why you post such transparent idiocy.

Because words are words pox, and it is what their ends achieve that hold the only true meaning. The words I substituted can meet the exactly same end. Can be construed through the same religions to mean exactly that, exactly a modern view, without religion at all.

And that is why I tell you, long ago, that religion is your lifestyle, that's it.

I feel like you think we are still in the middle ages.

Jack, seriously, shut the hell up.
In case you haven't noticed, I've been ignoring you for weeks and weeks now because the essence of all your posts boils down to:

"Expansion of a definition + redefining of a random word + either the word "universe. energy or everything" + random insult to poster's intelligence".

Quit it.

Faith is a state of mind is it not?

Your mind can affect your body can it not?

In case YOU haven't been paying attention. That is not a redefinition of a word.

At all.

So you basically don't care.

Fuck you.

IN that post I was even trying to explain why I do as you said so often.

It was much more than you made it out to be, and I find that hurtful, because I sometimes put MUCH thought into these posts, to the detriment of myself and others around me irl. I become mute, thinking too much.

That sounds pathetic, and it is somewhat of a hyperbole. But for you to say that's all my posts are really says a lot about you and what kind of person you are. At least on here.

which is meaningless

So I will ask you again. How is tricking oneself into believing something detrimental? How is faith not an acceptable placebo?

can I not have faith in science? See here is where YOU play the word game, you claim faith only belongs to religion.

It doesn't. Why do you think this? Why do you disrespect me when I feel that is so clear that I am yearning for real thoughts on here? That is what I'm doing.

At 4/5/09 11:42 PM, JackPhantasm wrote: Your mind can affect your body can it not?

Doesn't mean it does i nthis particular instance.

Like you could go into why a false reality can be damaging.

Why a solid belief can still pale in comparison to true knowledge. You can actually go into a "ignorance is bliss" vs. "ignorance is dangerous." argument.

Because that's what it is.

But you don't do that, you just make blanket statements.

At 4/5/09 11:51 PM, SadisticMonkey wrote:
Doesn't mean it does i nthis particular instance.

Really. Because I've been in church, and the look on some faces is the same as the look on a person's face when they just smoked or drank a shot. It's dope.

Like the entire concept of the church is to make you feel physically weak so that you need it.

How can you think it does nothing.

I think pox means to say it does nothing good, to strengthen, it weakens, creates a reliance.

Whatever effect faith has on the body, it's not exclusive either to faith itself or to any particular type of faith you have.

I.e. whatever it does, it probably does just as well if you believe in Mr.Peanut and the California raisins or Allah.

At 4/6/09 12:16 AM, poxpower wrote:
I.e. whatever it does, it probably does just as well if you believe in Mr.Peanut and the California raisins or Allah.

Exactly. Don't you find that interesting?

At 4/6/09 12:18 AM, JackPhantasm wrote:

Exactly. Don't you find that interesting?

No, it's called the placebo effect and any schmuck who tries to monopolize it with his shitty faith gets 0 respect from me.

The placebo effect is so strong that in science, they make double-blind studies to rub them out otherwise it fucks up the results. People who think their faith gave them magic powers or accomplished amazing things are just piling on the fallacies as well as pushing the placebo effect and bad results to the limits of the ludicrous.

And another example is the dousers that James Randi speaks of, who do the very interesting thing of amplifying any movement by their little dousing rods or whatever shit when they think it's working.
But it's easy to fool them. Wether the thing they douse for is there or not, if they THINK it's there, they'll make their body move accordingly, and unknowingly.

And lastly faith gives people a general feeling of contentment which is good for your overall happiness and conductive to better health and lower stress levels. But again, this has nothing to do with faith itself, you can get the same results from calming the fuck down or having regular sex with a chimpanzee.

Well I guess from that reply it's safe to say you do find the BRAIN interesting.

I was not talking about faith.

At 4/5/09 10:08 PM, Pugberto wrote: It is an amazing method of gaining knowledge, I've done a two years course in science. Faith is more of a way of strengthening the body and spirit, making you a better person. The teachings of Jesus are still good religious or not, as for the rest of the Bible parts are a bit sketchy and controversial.

Wait...what?

Strengthening the body and spirit? In what way?

It sounds like you're flirting around the idea Jesus is only used for some sort of emotional support.

Faith has no uses. The definition alone states accepting something without evidence, if there is no demand for evidence then society will be going backwards.

At 4/6/09 12:28 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 4/6/09 12:18 AM, JackPhantasm wrote:

Exactly. Don't you find that interesting?

No, it's called the placebo effect and any schmuck who tries to monopolize it with his shitty faith gets 0 respect from me.

;;;;;
But there is more than just religious Faith.

Or don't you agree with that either ?

THere is Faith in proven scientific principals, because you know if you do something in this order the end result is always the same.
I have faith in the equipment that keeps me from falling to my death when I have to repel from a building structure down to a lighting truss or from there to the floor.

I agree with who ever wrote here that you see some people who have/are involved in a religious ritual(s) & they often look like they're high ... & they probably are, there's some evidence that people can get themselves worked up mentally to hit euphoric highs as well as lows. No other outside stimulus like drugs etc. are needed.
Even if its just peace of mind, if it floats their boat, why should you or I care one way or another ?

At 4/6/09 07:44 AM, Brick-top wrote: Strengthening the body and spirit? In what way?

Making you feel a sense of purpose gives you a greater attitude, if you are happy then you are in good health mentally and physically. (Ignoring illnesses etc, if you can conceive what I mean) You know how laughter is good for heart. In that sense.

It sounds like you're flirting around the idea Jesus is only used for some sort of emotional support.

Not in the sense you are thinking of, it's more of guidance to how you should live your life.

Faith has no uses. The definition alone states accepting something without evidence, if there is no demand for evidence then society will be going backwards.

It has a use for me and billions of others. So that statement is invalid.