Obama School Plan

[Flash-Gamers]

I used to like Obama until I found out what some of his plans for school were. (I saw this on CNN Student News.) Anyways Obama is trying make it were us kids have longer school days, goto school longer during the year, and harder test! Hopefully most of his proposed school plans never become law.
Do any of you like his proposed school plans?

[JeremieCompNerd]

You mean Obama really plans to push kids to live up to their potential by teaching them more during their formative years and educating them in good work ethic to boot?!?!? How horrible of him! Even Hitler wasn't cruel enough to make the next generation of students smarter and less lazy, much less to limit the so-very-well-deserved summer break during which they forget a great deal of what they learned!
Just face it, if he got to do one thing during his time as President, the best thing he could possibly do is to train the next generation to be equipped to take his place.

[aninjaman]

1) I looked and couldnt find the article in CNN student news or anywhere. But it should be the OP's job to back up his starting claims. Don't make others do your research.
2) Obama does have a school plan but it mostly involves investing in early education. And our schools do need alot of reform from elementary school all the way to high school. The public school system in Baltimore is broken and I doubt its better in any other big city.

[Memorize]

At 3/12/09 07:47 PM, aninjaman wrote: 1) I looked and couldnt find the article in CNN student news or anywhere. But it should be the OP's job to back up his starting claims. Don't make others do your research.
2) Obama does have a school plan but it mostly involves investing in early education. And our schools do need alot of reform from elementary school all the way to high school. The public school system in Baltimore is broken and I doubt its better in any other big city.

I love it when liberals unknowingly support the "No Child Left Behind" Act from Bush.

[aninjaman]

At 3/12/09 07:55 PM, Memorize wrote: I love it when liberals unknowingly support the "No Child Left Behind" Act from Bush.

The main parts of the No Child Left Behind Plan were a ton of standerized tests and schools that have better performence get more money then those that don't.
I don't support those parts of the plan and I don't remember saying I did.
If part of the plan was to give money to primary education then I support that part of the plan.

[Brick-top]

At 3/12/09 07:20 PM, Flash-Gamers wrote: Do any of you like his proposed school plans?

Age/Gender: 16, Male

Question answered.

The longer you spend at school (along with how students are educated) the higher chance you have for a decent grade and a better chance for university or a good job.

[JeremieCompNerd]

At 3/12/09 07:55 PM, Memorize wrote:

I love it when liberals unknowingly support the "No Child Left Behind" Act from Bush.

And I love it when conservative can't tell the difference between liberals genuinely wanting to help solve a problem and a republican farce to bump poll rating that has little to no impact on the actual problem. :-) Not trying to flame, just pointing out the obvious. I want to improve the school system, but the "no child left behind" act just isn't going to get it done.

[Patton3]

All in all, I'm fine with Obama's school plan. However:
-If there is going to be an increase in the length of the school day, I think schools should implement a mandatory study hall.
-If the school year will be lengthened as well, we should see a little more funding go to extra curriculars in conjunction.
-And regardless on what else is in the plan, unless it's something really radical, I want to see less dependence on standardized test scores. I mean, you could do well in, say, Geometry, keeping a B+ average. Then you might come up on a concept you have trouble with, only to find out that that one concept makes up a large portion of the test, and as a result of your mediocre grade, your grade in that class may drop a full letter grade, perhaps even two, because of that one test. That just doesn't seem right. Most of a students time goes into homework and projects by necesity, yet they make up typically only 20-40% of a students final grade. Wow, that really makes me want to spend shit loads of time on homework!

[Achilles2]

I don't know where you got those facts from, OP, but they're probably untrue. Nothing about that is mentioned anywhere on any news station or site. It's just an example of people jumping the gun.

At 3/12/09 08:02 PM, Brick-top wrote: Age/Gender: 16, Male

Question answered.

I don't see the point you're trying to make. Students are the best ones to take advice from if you want to learn how to help THEM learn the most. We experience it every day, and we know the ups and downs of school and what needs to be changed and/or fixed, so we would be the best ones to take advice from.

For some reasons, most school reform programs are based on advice from parents, completely ignoring the fact that students don't usually tell their parents everything about school everyday, so the parents don't know anything about how exactly today's schools work.

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 3/12/09 09:09 PM, Achilles2 wrote: I don't see the point you're trying to make. Students are the best ones to take advice from if you want to learn how to help THEM learn the most. We experience it every day, and we know the ups and downs of school and what needs to be changed and/or fixed, so we would be the best ones to take advice from.

For some reasons, most school reform programs are based on advice from parents, completely ignoring the fact that students don't usually tell their parents everything about school everyday, so the parents don't know anything about how exactly today's schools work.

We all went to school too. And the majority of kids are going to support the ideas that cause them the least additional work. If my stepson, who is your age, had his way, he wouldn't have homework or essays or have to go to half his classes. I was in high school once, and although I was a high achiever, I certainly would not have supported longer school days, harder tests, or anything that made me do more work.

Just because you experience it every day doesn't make you an expert on it, nor does it mean you know what's best for you.

Additionally, teenagers are highly emotional and have undeveloped brains, but think they perceive the world the way adults do. I know it's hard to accept, but you are physically incapable of comprehending long-term consequences the way adults do, and that makes you a poor candidate to offer solutions to your own education and development. It's not personal.

When you are older, you will be astonished at how dumb you were at this age, and how much smarter your parents seem.

[ImaSmartass2]

Oh shit, the MAN is going to increase our school hours. Now we can't just fuck around all day.

Seriously though, its for your own good, Bittersweet as it is.

[blackattackbitch]

At 3/12/09 09:09 PM, Achilles2 wrote: I don't know where you got those facts from, OP, but they're probably untrue. Nothing about that is mentioned anywhere on any news station or site. It's just an example of people jumping the gun.

Well, to give the OP a little more credibility, I also saw something similar to this on CNN mobile. Or was it ABC mobile? More likely CNN since I read that more often and ABC is starting to look like a tabloid, but my point still stands. From what I can remember, Obama wanted to restore merit pay for teachers and possibly extend school hours.

At 3/12/09 10:06 PM, ImaSmartass2 wrote: Oh shit, the MAN is going to increase our school hours. Now we can't just fuck around all day.

Seriously though, its for your own good, Bittersweet as it is.

He's gonna have to do more than that to fix the public school system. First of all, get rid of the current emphasis on student control. Schools are more concerned with making the student sit down and be quiet than actually making sure that the student can read at his/her grade level.

Second of all, stop this focus on "modernizing" the school, unless the "modernization" is actually something necessary to the education of the students. New flatscreen monitors are not necessary for any school, nor is other top-of-the-line hi-tech computer equipment. A well-stocked library and various databases with which the student can do research should be fine, and only actual computer classes should have impressive gear, but only if the student is willing to pay about 15 dollars or so to take the class.

Third of all, there needs to be a sufficient plan to help kids who need a little more help. Too often, I see kids who have trouble in school go through the same motions over and over again, like going to the counselor and going for tutoring only to fail over and over again. If something doesn't work, don't you think it's time to change something?

And Obama better not be talking about merit pay unless he actually has a plan to determine how well the teacher is teaching the kids.

[hansari]

At 3/12/09 10:44 PM, blackattackbitch wrote:

New flatscreen monitors are not necessary for any school, nor is other top-of-the-line hi-tech computer equipment. A well-stocked library and various databases with which the student can do research should be fine, and only actual computer classes should have impressive gear, but only if the student is willing to pay about 15 dollars or so to take the class.

I second that.

I remember how garbage the distribution and use of funds were back when I was in Highschool.

Putting aside that we unnecessarily built a new school when my graduating class alone was just a little over 100, we had those small flat screen LCD tvs in each classroom. (and that was back when they JUST came out, so you can imagine they were expensive...)

[Memorize]

At 3/12/09 08:07 PM, JeremieCompNerd wrote:

And I love it when conservative can't tell the difference between liberals genuinely wanting to help solve a problem and a republican farce to bump poll rating that has little to no impact on the actual problem. :-) Not trying to flame, just pointing out the obvious. I want to improve the school system, but the "no child left behind" act just isn't going to get it done.

No Child Left Behind sucks.

Just because you increase school hours doesn't mean you'll obtain better grades, especially with our already failure of a public education system, unprepared teachers, minimal pay, and kid's attention spans rapidly decreasing.

Increasing school hours is pointless. A better idea would be to have a generation raise their kids better and get the government out of the schools so they can have better teachers.

[GrammerNaziElite]

Increasing school hours is pointless. A better idea would be to have a generation raise their kids better and get the government out of the schools so they can have better teachers.

Private industries are famous for maintaining quality standards and just gushing with empathy, especially when it comes to non-profit businesses.

[Psil0]

Obama shouldn't worry about fixing schools right now. His focus and attention should be put completely on fixing the economy. If he does that within his first presidency and gets reelected (which at looking at it right now, he probably won't), then he can focus on fixing education in the country.

[GrammerNaziElite]

At 3/13/09 01:43 AM, Nosferatu-of-Worms wrote: Obama shouldn't worry about fixing schools right now. His focus and attention should be put completely on fixing the economy. If he does that within his first presidency and gets reelected (which at looking at it right now, he probably won't), then he can focus on fixing education in the country.

Smarter people = better economy. The less unskilled labor we have and the more skilled thinkers we have, the better. A smart man won't just do cheap labor, he'll do it better and find ways to make it more efficient.

[aviewaskewed]

At 3/13/09 12:55 AM, Memorize wrote: No Child Left Behind sucks.

NOW it looks like a Memorize post "hello, I'm going to bash liberals and make it look like they support a George Bush plan that I also seem to support" *accused liberal makes a reasonable response* "oh, I don't support what George Bush did...yeah...that'll keep my credibility intact".

Just because you increase school hours doesn't mean you'll obtain better grades, especially with our already failure of a public education system, unprepared teachers, minimal pay, and kid's attention spans rapidly decreasing.

That's very true. But can it really hurt to increase the hours to get the teachers who actually are prepared and trying to have a bit more time to drill the things that need to be drilled into these kids heads? It's not gonna solve the whole problem, but as a step in the process (which is absolutely what it sounds like) is it really a bad idea?

Increasing school hours is pointless. A better idea would be to have a generation raise their kids better and get the government out of the schools so they can have better teachers.

How is the government creating worse teachers? I'm not seeing it. Agreed it would be better to have parents raise their kids better but if they won't do it, what can you do? At some point we're all gonna be old, feeble and in need of the younger generations to step up and take charge of things. So trying to work to make sure they're prepared to do that seems like a smart investment on the part of the WHOLE of society (which does include the government). So yeah, I don't see your point here at all.

[fli]

I agree on increasing hours--
it will at least certainly help students from staying away from gangs, and helping parents who work long hours.

I hope they will return to older education methods, but keep the new ones that work too--
We have new English teachers who don't know anything grammar...

Grammar used to be a required curriculum for Californian schools, but then around the 70s-- they removed it. I grew up without the grammar, which would have helped me in my English classes and certainly with my other classes.

And obviously funding needs to go to other stuff like the arts and physical education... and to renovate schools who desperately need it.

You can't teach shit to children if they have a shitty school-- No Child Left Behind left TONS of children behind because of this stupid catch 22...

To do better, they need money. But to get money, they need to get better...
Bush logic-- only comprehensible to the dying Bush-ites.

[SeaBoundRhino]

What? Obama is trying to make you learn? How evil.

[Memorize]

At 3/13/09 03:14 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:

NOW it looks like a Memorize post "hello, I'm going to bash liberals and make it look like they support a George Bush plan that I also seem to support" *accused liberal makes a reasonable response* "oh, I don't support what George Bush did...yeah...that'll keep my credibility intact".

Since we're obviously seeing a trend of liberals protesting Obama's Iraq and Afghanistan strategy, which is... dun dun duuuuun... the exact same as Bush's.

Since we're obviously seeing an uprise of liberal dissent against Clinton for bombing and invading Iraq under the premise of WMDs, right?

Why should I expect liberals to bitch to Obama about his continued funding and support of Bush's "No Child Left Behind" Act? An act so terrible, says the liberal, that it is further ruining education.

That's very true. But can it really hurt to increase the hours to get the teachers who actually are prepared and trying to have a bit more time to drill the things that need to be drilled into these kids heads? It's not gonna solve the whole problem, but as a step in the process (which is absolutely what it sounds like) is it really a bad idea?

Because 40 hours a week isn't enough, right?

And if it doesn't work?

What are you going to do? Propose more hours?

How is the government creating worse teachers? I'm not seeing it.

Gee, it could be due to a lack of standards, piss poor pay, and it's result in increasing the cost of a college education.

Agreed it would be better to have parents raise their kids better but if they won't do it, what can you do?

Considering that the government has failed in this area for decades, what makes you think it's going to work now?

I swear, it's like listening to a politician claim that we haven't "spent enough" to get the economy jump started, even though we're already spending 1/3 of our national debt.

And if that doesn't work, it'll be the same excuse as last time: "We didn't spend enough".

At some point we're all gonna be old, feeble and in need of the younger generations to step up and take charge of things. So trying to work to make sure they're prepared to do that seems like a smart investment on the part of the WHOLE of society (which does include the government). So yeah, I don't see your point here at all.

My point is that considering the government has been attempting to do ALL OF THIS since FDR and Lyndon Johnson's "The Great Society" (which turned out to be total disasters), how many more decades or half-centuries do we have to go before we realize that it doesn't work?

[Ericho]

Why would you complain about a lack of education? Some people are complaining about how the standard grades are being lowered, and if that happens, we could make up for it with longer school hours!

[SmilezRoyale]

The critics of The plan may merely be nitpicking on the issue of longer school hours... one would need to assess the entire plan. I don't believe longer teaching time alone is going to cut it. Number one is that it shouldn't be the federal governments job to deal with Schooling... especially since schooling is so miserable in their own backyard. If obama can fix the DC outskirt's education maybe they can claim to have some legitimacy on the national level.

State governments at the largest should perhaps observe the top performing schools in their areas or other areas and try to mimic their techniques.

The fact that Obama sends his childeren to private Education suggests he either believes private education is better

[SkunkyFluffy]

At 3/13/09 06:58 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: The fact that Obama sends his childeren to private Education suggests he either believes private education is better

They went to public school in Chicago, I believe.

DC schools are atrocious, for one thing - far below the national average, and even someone who thinks public schools are great would have to pause before sending their child there. For another, the security nightmare of sending the First Kids to public school would make it an incredibly stupid idea. Between the people who hate his dad and the temptation of a kidnap-for-ransom situation, some dumb fucker in DC would mess with those girls.

I am not a fan of the man, but let's not muddy the issue with these kinds of accusations.

[Korriken]

You can try to make people smarter by keeping them in school longer, but if the person has absolutely no interest in learning, you can keep them there 24/7/365 and it won't make a bit of difference.

What we need is one thing the government can't buy with money. A cultural change. Our culture has to change and have a lot more emphasis on intelligence and education.

and merit pay sounds ripe for abuse. Teachers cooking their books to make it seem like their kids are smarter than they really are in order to bring in more money.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 3/13/09 09:18 PM, Korriken wrote:

What we need is one thing the government can't buy with money. A cultural change. Our culture has to change and have a lot more emphasis on intelligence and education.

What we need, along with this change in intelligence and education in our national view, is actual competive schools where parents can pick and choose where they went to go aka voucher program

Along with that, if ever possible which isn't likely,we have to get rid of the biggest problem to public education in this country, teacher unions.

The amount of power that they have on the education proccess and thier corrupt manhandling of our nation's youths is something that needs to be changed.

[Psil0]

At 3/13/09 01:46 AM, GrammerNaziElite wrote:

At 3/13/09 01:43 AM, Nosferatu-of-Worms wrote: Obama shouldn't worry about fixing schools right now. His focus and attention should be put completely on fixing the economy. If he does that within his first presidency and gets reelected (which at looking at it right now, he probably won't), then he can focus on fixing education in the country.

Smarter people = better economy. The less unskilled labor we have and the more skilled thinkers we have, the better. A smart man won't just do cheap labor, he'll do it better and find ways to make it more efficient.

Yeah but none of that would affect the economy now. It wouldn't have affect for around 20 years from now when Obama's term as president has long since been over. You have to look at it, as when will we see the effects? Also he'd have to implement it little by little. Not only testing it certain areas (where education would tend to lack), but also testing it to see what grade levels need it. Do we really need as much repition early on or is it more important when kids hit the middle school grades where the information is far more important. Also, class sizes in a lot of schools is ridiculous. Its almost impossible for teachers to help struggling students (students who wouldn't normally ask for help or when offered wouldn't take it) when they have 20-30 students to teach.

To me the best reform we can possibly do right now is to reform whats being taught when. To me its that kids don't get the right information early enough and the later years they get the information too late to make a difference or the wrong information.

[xscoot]

At 3/12/09 08:19 PM, Patton3 wrote: Most of a students time goes into homework and projects by necesity, yet they make up typically only 20-40% of a students final grade. Wow, that really makes me want to spend shit loads of time on homework!

It's different here in Canada. No standardized tests, and course work takes up 70% of the grade, with a culminating task taking up the last 30%. The culminating comprises of two parts: a final assignment, and an Exam. Each is usually worth 15% each, but somemay be different. For example, a drama or art class will have the final assignment valued at 25%, with the exam only being 5%. Either way, most of the marks come from working hard in school, and actually learning the material instead of just scoring really high on a couple end of year tests. It's better here.

[Psil0]

But test actually show whether you know the information or not (not homework or projects). The HW is supposed to reinforce it, people can cheat on homework, but its more difficult to do so on an exam or test.

[Dragonmad]

As far as I can see, this entire topic thus far has been a combination of parents and students arguing about the school system, and liberals and conservatives arguing about the NCLB act.

The entire system of our country's public education is a joke right now, and to blame it on the students or the government alone is just narrow minded.

I'm a freshman highschool student and I'm for increased hours, dispite whatever anyone may say about students choosing the "path with least work" or whatever. The current school system is a joke in general in that it stops being free the moment you become an adult, and most people who want to get into decent colleges have to fight tooth and nail before they even realize their actions are necessary to that magnitude. And it certainly doesn't help that the shool system up until the high school level is painfully dumb, to the point that myself, and several others I know (in different areas, so this isn't just me) drops you into a situation you're totally unprepaired for.

The No Child Left Behind act is even more laughable than the schools. "Oh, let's give the students a ridiculously easy series of standardized tests and then remove funding from the ones who do poorly. Let's make it even harder for those who have trouble (not including those who don't want to work in this) to get a good education and make the school cut sallaries and have to hire unmotivated minimum wage teachers! It's ingenious!"

Was the bill written by a retarted fucking monkey!?

If Obama's school plan is real, I certainly salute it. We need to increase the intelligence of our youth, and stop hurting those of (and I don't mean this in an insulting or arrogant way at all) less aptitude. Longer school days will certainly help, and if that doesn't work, then we try something else. The economy will be fixed by future workers, not just those involved right now. Educating future workers = a faster economic recovery.

As for Obama's re-election, it's a lock no matter what. He deserved it, and still does. However, he got in because of the (and I'm sure I'll end up being flamed for this, but it needs to be said anyway) African american population's vote, and only because of the color of the skin. They picked the right leader for the wrong reasons, but whatever.Liberals and Conservatives can sontinue fighting like fucking three year olds over who gets to stack the alphabet blocks, or we can shut up and fix the problem!