To my fellow conservatives...

[Slick-Rob]

Hi, I am a young conservative, in my senior year of high school, and am beginning to doubt whether I will be able to see this country right itself of the vast error it has made. I choose not to use the word "Republican" to describe myself because of some personal discrepancies with a few social policies, but agree on most of the economic ones of the GOP. Which brings me to my question for all of my fellow conservatives out there:

Have we lost the battle?

No matter how many people complain over President Obama's moves to increase the national debt, despite his campaign promises, and he refuses to listen. And a majority of constituents probably aren't paying attention to President Obama's new policies (aka Democrats). From what I've seen of President Obama's time in office so far, he seems to be ushering in the era of Carter again, who was just a horrible president. I fear there won't be another Reagan to clean this up.

And will Obama be able to get us out of the Depression that is coming? The only way that the United States made it out of the Great Depression was through arms dealing during the initial years of WWII, and I don't see Obama as allowing us to play that part again, should that opportunity ever arrive to save us.

Do we give up? All I've done before this moment of realization is live in the Republican Underground, but I'm starting to believe that there might come a time when the Underground Movement comes to a close. What do we do?

[Patton3]

I think this post would have been better titled "To My Fellow Americans". We're all in this ship together, and if it does really start to sink, we're all gonna be there bailing it out. Not just Conservatives, but Liberals, Socialists, Non-Partisans, everybody.

Also, I'm all for free speech, which by all means includes the right to speculate on the countries future, but in the post you made it sound like this ship was sinking fast by Obama's actions, and his alone. And I think we can both agree, that everbody, Conservatives, Liberals, whatever, all have to take a share of the blame.

[Al6200]

The Republicans are no more crushed today than the Democrats were crushed after the victories of Reagen or Bush.

[fli]

Yup...
High school graduating senior who thinks he who knows everything--
one probably who's jocking over pasty Limbaugh cock cause it's the supposedly smart thing to do...

One more for the status quo...

Check...
N-E-X-T...

[Brick-top]

I highly doubt Obama is ignoring the finanical problems considering it's on the damn news every waking second in every country that's felt even the slightest pinch.

But the financial crisis isn't as simple as people are making it seem. It's a domino effect and it's difficult to stop.

I'm starting to think this depression/recession/crisis etc will have some positives at least in the general public for a while once it's gone. It'll encourage people to act more wisely with their money and not put everything on credit cards, get massive loans and buy every single electronic gadget that's existed since the dawn of electricity.

[ASKE]

We're all affected by every policy that is passed in the states. Sucks but at least your China.

[Korriken]

At 3/9/09 05:56 PM, fli wrote: Yup...
High school graduating senior who thinks he who knows everything--
one probably who's jocking over pasty Limbaugh cock cause it's the supposedly smart thing to do...

One more for the status quo...

Check...
N-E-X-T...

Yup...
Liberal who thinks he knows everything--
one probably who's Jocking over the various liberal "journalists" cocks, spreading their lies about Rush Limbaugh, because its supposedly the smart thing to do.

One more for the status quo...

Check...
N-E-X-T...

I mean seriously, unless you actually listen to the Rush Limbaugh show, you have no right to be bashing the man because you have no idea what he says.. oh wait.. "I HOPE HE FAILS!" That's right, he would DARE oppose Obama, meaning he's automatically an extremist right wing Obama hater, context be damned.

[Patton3]

At 3/9/09 07:30 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 3/9/09 05:56 PM, fli wrote:

N-E-X-T...

I mean seriously, unless you actually listen to the Rush Limbaugh show, you have no right to be bashing the man because you have no idea what he says.. oh wait.. "I HOPE HE FAILS!" That's right, he would DARE oppose Obama, meaning he's automatically an extremist right wing Obama hater, context be damned.

There's a bit of a leap between those who simply dont agree with Obama, and those who want him to fail, just to prove their point. To actually want the President of your own country to fail is incredibly self-defeating. If he fails, we all fail.

[MortifiedPenguins]

Bring back Barry Goldwater would be one good thing.

As much as I love Ronald Reagan, there were many things that he did that started this decline.

Chief among them was incorparating overly religous docterine into conservative policy.

Conservative policy used to mean small government, small debt, small taxes and pro military.
Now it's massive government, lip service to the military and forced religious and social values.

People like Palin and Huckabee are what is killing the Republican party.

[aninjaman]

Im not a conservative but I can say that the conservatives haven't "lost the battle".
This happens alot. One political party seems dead and gone like the Democrats seemed after Reagan or Republicans during Roosevelt. Political parties have power in cycles. Wait a decade or two and the Republicans will be back in power, a little reformed, just back in power.

[Ericho]

As bad a name Republicans have nowadays, you can still at least focus on the minority that are pretty intelligent, like Ron Paul. I honestly would've voted for him if he was on the ticket!

[Korriken]

At 3/9/09 07:45 PM, Patton3 wrote:

I mean seriously, unless you actually listen to the Rush Limbaugh show, you have no right to be bashing the man because you have no idea what he says.. oh wait.. "I HOPE HE FAILS!" That's right, he would DARE oppose Obama, meaning he's automatically an extremist right wing Obama hater, context be damned.

There's a bit of a leap between those who simply dont agree with Obama, and those who want him to fail, just to prove their point. To actually want the President of your own country to fail is incredibly self-defeating. If he fails, we all fail.

Obviously you don't listen to him either. Instead of trusting a 3rd party, you should listen to his show for a few days to a week and see what he really says. It's easy to just believe what someone says about someone else. You see the 4 words, don't bother finding out WHAT about Obama he hopes fails, then try to judge the man based on it. Brilliant. I could easily take Obama's gaffe "my muslim faith" and running around yelling "secret muslim!"

[aviewaskewed]

Oh, it's just another Obama will kill us all thread but with better worded rhetoric? Never mind. I thought we had something new and original here. My bad.

[wiski]

Printing more money and giving more money to dying corporations will not work in the long run
Throwing money in a fire doesn't put the fire out

[Dawnslayer]

At 3/9/09 06:10 PM, KemCab wrote:

At 3/9/09 05:08 PM, Slick-Rob wrote: And will Obama be able to get us out of

Remember it was Hoover that not only got America into the depression, but he didn't do anything for three years after that.

Although I did vote for Obama, I have to admit his soundbytes are starting to sound like Hoover's "right around the corner" speeches. That said, the Depression wasn't entirely Hoover's fault, either; he inherited an economy already on the edge of disaster, much as Obama has.

the Depression that is coming?

Hey, hey, don't count on bread lines or shanty towns forming any day soon.

Too late. According to this evening's "Nightly News" broadcast, tent cities for the homeless are becoming more and more prevalent.

-----

At 3/9/09 06:22 PM, Brick-top wrote: I'm starting to think this depression/recession/crisis etc will have some positives at least in the general public for a while once it's gone. It'll encourage people to act more wisely with their money and not put everything on credit cards, get massive loans and buy every single electronic gadget that's existed since the dawn of electricity.

For a while, maybe. But humans are notorious for forgetting the mistakes of the past and screwing up the same way later.

-----

As for the actual topic: I will not deny that I am left of center. But this does not mean I am anti-conservative, nor that I can not agree with right-wingers on some issues. Indeed, I support the banter that moves across the political spectrum because it provides people who participate in it with new insights, and (if they have an open mind) an opportunity to find the best solutions to our problems. Conservatism is not dead; it's just been through a very rough eight years, and we were ALL dragged through that.

[AbstractPathologist]

At 3/9/09 05:56 PM, fli wrote: Yup...
High school graduating senior who thinks he who knows everything--
one probably who's jocking over pasty Limbaugh cock cause it's the supposedly smart thing to do...

One more for the status quo...

Check...
N-E-X-T...

Geez, sounds like someone is bitter. Why don't you go take a little nap and let the nice, friendly, mature people post here. Okay? Cool. :)

[Patton3]

At 3/9/09 10:46 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 3/9/09 07:45 PM, Patton3 wrote:

I mean seriously, unless you actually listen to the Rush Limbaugh show, you have no right to be bashing the man because you have no idea what he says.. oh wait.. "I HOPE HE FAILS!" That's right, he would DARE oppose Obama, meaning he's automatically an extremist right wing Obama hater, context be damned.

There's a bit of a leap between those who simply dont agree with Obama, and those who want him to fail, just to prove their point. To actually want the President of your own country to fail is incredibly self-defeating. If he fails, we all fail.

Obviously you don't listen to him either. Instead of trusting a 3rd party, you should listen to his show for a few days to a week and see what he really says. It's easy to just believe what someone says about someone else. You see the 4 words, don't bother finding out WHAT about Obama he hopes fails, then try to judge the man based on it. Brilliant. I could easily take Obama's gaffe "my muslim faith" and running around yelling "secret muslim!"

I try not to listen to anyone, anymore, who only presents one side of the story. So, I don't listen to AM rodio, FOX, MSNBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. I do, however, enjoy listening to Bob Schieffer and wn.com.
And when you quoted Rush, the ONLY thing you included was "I hope he fails!" in referring to Obama. When you're broad and unspecific like that, you can't blame people for taking something the wrong way. A lot of people do that, and the news is one of the worse ones. Take Senate histories for example. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, there's a bill on abortion that bans abortion at any time but the first tri-mester, and makes abortions more easily available to women who meet these criteria. If a Republican voted yes on the bill, it could be bastardized to sound like all he voted for was making abortion more easily available, which is true, but it's not the whole story. He also limited the time frame in which they could be performed.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 3/9/09 06:10 PM, KemCab wrote:

At 3/9/09 05:08 PM, Slick-Rob wrote: And will Obama be able to get us out of

Remember it was Hoover that not only got America into the depression, but he didn't do anything for three years after that.

lol is that what they told you?

"We might have done nothing. That would have been utter ruin. Instead we met the situation with proposals to private business and to Congress of the most gigantic program of economic defense and counterattack ever evolved in the history of the Republic. We put it into action.... No government in Washington has hitherto considered that it held so broad a responsibility for leadership in such times.... For the first time in the history of depression, dividends, profits, and the cost of living, have been reduced before wages have suffered.... They were maintained until the cost of living had decreased and the profits had practically vanished. They are now the highest real wages in the world.

Creating new jobs and giving to the whole system a new breath of life; nothing has ever been devised in our history which has done more for ... "the common run of men and women." Some of the reactionary economists urged that we should allow the liquidation to take its course until we had found bottom.... We determined that we would not follow the advice of the bitter-end liquidationists and see the whole body of debtors of the United States brought to bankruptcy and the savings of our people brought to destruction." - Herbert Hoover

More: http://mises.org/story/2902

[Korriken]

At 3/10/09 04:20 PM, Patton3 wrote:

I try not to listen to anyone, anymore, who only presents one side of the story. So, I don't listen to AM rodio, FOX, MSNBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. I do, however, enjoy listening to Bob Schieffer and wn.com.
And when you quoted Rush, the ONLY thing you included was "I hope he fails!" in referring to Obama. When you're broad and unspecific like that, you can't blame people for taking something the wrong way.

That was the very point im trying to make. There's been a lot of... err... "journalists" who take that very quote, twist it out of context and run with it. There's also been a commercial about it as well. Problem is, a lot of people never think to look any deeper into it to see what the context is. WARNING: Contains high levels of Convervative opinion and criticism of Obama. Link may contain material that is offensive to Obama worshippers.

[Anth0n]

Democrats and Republicans are basically the same. People are realizing that Republicans love big government despite preaching fiscal conservatism and personal responsibility. Sure they oppose big spending now, but they sure didn't in the Bush years. So no one trusts them anymore.

Libertarians are the real conservatives, IMO.

[blackattackbitch]

At 3/10/09 07:05 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: lol is that what they told you?

Enlightening....HOW DARE YOU SHAKE THE FOUNDATION OF MY UNIVERSE!!!

At 3/9/09 11:36 PM, wiski wrote: Printing more money and giving more money to dying corporations will not work in the long run
Throwing money in a fire doesn't put the fire out

Depends, how much money are we talking? And on how big a fire? Better analogy please, such as:
Imagine the economy as the guy taking it up the ass, and imagine Congress as the guy fucking in the ass. Now imagine the stimulus as the lube, but the lube is old, cheap, and pretty shitty, as well as half empty. Now Congress won't be able to shove it's dick inside the asshole of the economy, improving the economic mood, because it doesn't have a viable method of entry. And even if it does get its dick inside, it's likely to tear something and not satisfy at all. Get what I'm talking about?

At 3/10/09 07:18 PM, Korriken wrote: Link may contain material that is offensive to Obama worshippers.

AGHHH FUCKS NOISE!!!! CONTEXT!!!! BURNS MY LIBERAL RETINAS!!!!!!

At 3/9/09 05:08 PM, Slick-Rob wrote: Hi, I am a young conservative, in my senior year of high school, and am beginning to doubt whether I will be able to see this country right itself of the vast error it has made. I choose not to use the word "Republican"

Thank god, only idiots define their ideology according to party. In fact, I'll go even further and call those who attach broad names like "conservative" and "liberal" to their ideologies are idiots. I'm a human being with beliefs and opinions.

Have we lost the battle?

No matter how many people complain over President Obama's moves to increase the national debt, despite his campaign promises, and he refuses to listen. And a majority of constituents probably aren't paying attention to President Obama's new policies (aka Democrats). From what I've seen of President Obama's time in office so far, he seems to be ushering in the era of Carter again, who was just a horrible president. I fear there won't be another Reagan to clean this up.

Uh-oh, another "Obama is the political devil" thread. For fuck's sake, give the man some time to make a goddamn mark, it's only been 50 days. I prefer to hear bitching when the bitching is fact-based, not speculation/opinion based, please.

And will Obama be able to get us out of the Depression that is coming? The only way that the United States made it out of the Great Depression was through arms dealing during the initial years of WWII, and I don't see Obama as allowing us to play that part again, should that opportunity ever arrive to save us.

Unlike many of my friends, I'm pretty certain that we won't see another Great Depression out of this. However, essential steps that would ensure the stability of the financial markets have yet to be taken.

Do we give up? All I've done before this moment of realization is live in the Republican Underground, but I'm starting to believe that there might come a time when the Underground Movement comes to a close. What do we do?

Come to the surface and put your balls to the wall. That is, place your ideas under the vicious eyes of public scrutiny.

[Korriken]

At 3/11/09 02:08 AM, blackattackbitch wrote:

At 3/10/09 07:18 PM, Korriken wrote: Link may contain material that is offensive to Obama worshippers.

AGHHH FUCKS NOISE!!!! CONTEXT!!!! BURNS MY LIBERAL RETINAS!!!!!!

Told you not to touch that darn thing. This is the problem with people. They refuse to see both sides of an argument. If something conflicts with what they want to believe, they automatically turn hostile towards it.

[Patton3]

At 3/10/09 07:18 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 3/10/09 04:20 PM, Patton3 wrote:

I try not to listen to anyone, anymore, who only presents one side of the story. So, I don't listen to AM rodio, FOX, MSNBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. I do, however, enjoy listening to Bob Schieffer and wn.com.
And when you quoted Rush, the ONLY thing you included was "I hope he fails!" in referring to Obama. When you're broad and unspecific like that, you can't blame people for taking something the wrong way.

That was the very point im trying to make. There's been a lot of... err... "journalists" who take that very quote, twist it out of context and run with it. There's also been a commercial about it as well. Problem is, a lot of people never think to look any deeper into it to see what the context is. WARNING: Contains high levels of Convervative opinion and criticism of Obama. Link may contain material that is offensive to Obama worshippers.

I'm fine with hearing a conservative opinion and Obama criticisms (you must admit, they often overlap), but isn't calling Obama supporters in general Obama worshipers, like taking a quote and throwing it out of context, and blowing it out of proportion? The very thing your angry at people for doing to Rush Limbaugh, amongst, I'm sure, several other Conservatives?

[Korriken]

At 3/11/09 04:32 PM, Patton3 wrote:

I'm fine with hearing a conservative opinion and Obama criticisms (you must admit, they often overlap), but isn't calling Obama supporters in general Obama worshipers, like taking a quote and throwing it out of context, and blowing it out of proportion? The very thing your angry at people for doing to Rush Limbaugh, amongst, I'm sure, several other Conservatives?

There is a difference between an Obama supporter and an Obama worshipper. An Obama supporter is a well informed liberal that knows Obama's agenda and supports it. Obama worshippers, on the other hand, look a lot like this. An uninformed rube that doesn't have a clue and thinks Obama is gonna somehow magically make everything awesome, or don't have a clue how the economy works and thinks punishing "those fat rich bastards that get rich off the backs of the poor" is a viable plan to get the economy going again.

[blackattackbitch]

At 3/11/09 07:24 PM, Korriken wrote: Obama worshippers, on the other hand, look a lot like this.

ROFL fucking hilarious! "I haven't felt this good since I recieved a Playstation 3 for christmas" is the best line in the fucking world!

[Korriken]

At 3/11/09 07:46 PM, blackattackbitch wrote:

At 3/11/09 07:24 PM, Korriken wrote: Obama worshippers, on the other hand, look a lot like this.

ROFL fucking hilarious! "I haven't felt this good since I recieved a Playstation 3 for christmas" is the best line in the fucking world!

At least he didn't compare it to getting laid. "Obama talking to me was better than that screaming orgasm some girl gave me at a party!" That would have been disturbing.

If you get this kind of emotional reponse from talking to a politician, then you need to step back and give it some thought. One should never lose control of their emotions when someone else speaks to them, I don't care WHO it is.

[Patton3]

At 3/11/09 07:24 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 3/11/09 04:32 PM, Patton3 wrote:

I'm fine with hearing a conservative opinion and Obama criticisms (you must admit, they often overlap), but isn't calling Obama supporters in general Obama worshipers, like taking a quote and throwing it out of context, and blowing it out of proportion? The very thing your angry at people for doing to Rush Limbaugh, amongst, I'm sure, several other Conservatives?

There is a difference between an Obama supporter and an Obama worshipper. An Obama supporter is a well informed liberal that knows Obama's agenda and supports it. Obama worshippers, on the other hand, look a lot like this. An uninformed rube that doesn't have a clue and thinks Obama is gonna somehow magically make everything awesome, or don't have a clue how the economy works and thinks punishing "those fat rich bastards that get rich off the backs of the poor" is a viable plan to get the economy going again.

It just seemed as though earlier, you were saying they were one in the same. I don't know if it's because it was poorly worded or I misread it, probably the last one, but ah well, just a small misunderstanding.
As well, an Obama supporter doesn't have to be a liberal, he could be a moderate conservative, a moderate, or some obscure party member who knows his party's candidate doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.
And on a final note, very few Obama supporters think that the rich are just fat, uncaring, sleezeballs. However, it's fair to say that most think they should be taxed more heavily. An interesting fact about this, 65% of voters in the 250k+ income bracket voted for Obama. Kinda weird.

[Slick-Rob]

OK, I'd just like to say that I didn't start this thread as a "Bash Obama" thread, but as a way to vent my despair at what I'm seeing. As for the whole economic problem, yes, it is complicated, but simply pouring tons of money on the issue, which at some point in time will have to paid off by taxpayers, is obviously not a solution.

We Republicans tried a REAL Stimulus package which gave money straight to the taxpayers and didn't have over 9,000 earmarks. (insert DBZ joke here) It didn't work did it? And neither will this one, which has a whole bunch of crap that WILL NOT STIMULATE THE ECONOMY!!! How is $50,000 for the National Foundation for the Arts, a STIMULUS? Tell me why a 3 Trillion Dollar Bill is necessary.

[Patton3]

At 3/12/09 04:18 PM, Slick-Rob wrote: OK, I'd just like to say that I didn't start this thread as a "Bash Obama" thread, but as a way to vent my despair at what I'm seeing. As for the whole economic problem, yes, it is complicated, but simply pouring tons of money on the issue, which at some point in time will have to paid off by taxpayers, is obviously not a solution.

Maybe not, yet this is a democracy, and majority rules.

We Republicans tried a REAL Stimulus package which gave money straight to the taxpayers and didn't have over 9,000 earmarks. (insert DBZ joke here) It didn't work did it? And neither will this one, which has a whole bunch of crap that WILL NOT STIMULATE THE ECONOMY!!! How is $50,000 for the National Foundation for the Arts, a STIMULUS? Tell me why a 3 Trillion Dollar Bill is necessary.

So putting money into the hands of irresponsible consumers who either, a. did something dumb with it, or b. put away the money that was supposed to end the recession for when the recession was over. That was a "real stimulus"?

And on the earmarks, no, not all will stimulate the economy. But:
1. You can't say things like fisheries won't create jobs and revenue. In addition to lessening our toll on the environment.
2. Oh, yes. Foundations that support the arts, stations that monitor seismic activity, groups that build community centers and things of that nature, etc. They're all just such horrible things! Why would we ever want to supply money to projects like that?

Tell me why people keep inflating the amount of money in the stimulus package that has been passed by the government.

[Slick-Rob]

At 3/12/09 04:43 PM, Patton3 wrote:

2. Oh, yes. Foundations that support the arts, stations that monitor seismic activity, groups that build community centers and things of that nature, etc. They're all just such horrible things! Why would we ever want to supply money to projects like that?

You're missing the point. My point is that throwing money all over the place at things that, although nice, add more to the national debt are not needed. Didn't Obama say he was going to reduce the national debt?

Tell me why people keep inflating the amount of money in the stimulus package that has been passed by the government.

Ummm... because it is that damn huge. And they're asking for more.