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My friend has brawl and he's always going on about how it sux b/c it takes no skill. He mastered the game as yoshi and this newbie beat him wit a weak character!!!! i said he was a sore loser but said its b/c the game requires no skill

At 4/5/09 11:25 PM, Frazoola wrote: What's that about MK? Online (yeah, I actually got a match) the same person was owning everyone with MK until I decided "Screw it. I'm using Peach." and owned him. Peach > MetaKnight

I'm a Peach main. I've used her in plenty of competitive tournaments and I know a lot about her character and let me tell you this:
Meta Knight>>>>Peach. Meta Knight is just plain unfair and he should have been banned. He has the best priority in the game, no start-up lag in any attacks, no ending lag in any attacks, he has great range to space over his body, and he can kill at 20% but taking almost everyone off the stage and gimping their recovery. He doesn't really have any cons.

Brawl's balance is ridiculously horrible.

At 4/6/09 01:29 AM, verycoolguy wrote: Brawl's balance is ridiculously horrible.

Well, if you discount MetaKnight, and even Snake to an extent, it's a bit more balanced. Though I suppose the same could be said for Melee if you discounted Fox and Falco.

You have to try and keep in mind that the developers did do a pretty good job on balance though, since Balancing 35 characters is a helluva a lot harder than balancing 25.

At 2/21/09 09:07 PM, KartoTolmex wrote: You're not missing out on much, personally I think Melee is much better.

Melee was excellent but they're both almost completely different games since Brawl is 'cartoony' and 'party-like' while Melee focused in on objectives and streaming combos.

Brawl feels too watered down, and too much effort has been made to cater for the "fans" i.e. the people who can be bothered to write to Nintendo

Brawl is watered down but still brilliant.

anyone who cares about tiers isn't playing correctly

Ive never played Brawl but Melee was amazing :]

At 4/6/09 05:51 AM, MAYORMCHEESE wrote: anyone who cares about tiers isn't playing correctly

Ah, there is so much truth in this. Introducing online play was a nice thought, but most of the community turned it from a fun-filled affair into a sordid online affair :(
The game's meant to be fun and not played competitively, IT WAS JUST AN ADDITION TO THE FUN

My friends and I bought Brawl, played it for a week and a half and picked Melee up again. That game not deserve the praise it received in comparison to its predecessor. I wish they had actually seen that things like wave dashing added another element to the game even if they did not mean for it to be implemented.

But the speed was the main killer, along with everyone's ridiculous recoveries from the bottom of the stage. Took all the fun away.

To those people who even knew about Super Smash Bros. Brawl, do you guys remember the first time you saw that one trailer? It was really amazing wasn't it? It got us all hyped up to get the game for QUITE the time. Now what am I saying here? Well, when I got the game, I was incredibly excited and what not! After a while, I started losing that excitement.

Some of you fellows are correct that Brawl is in a way "Toned down". I would like to give at least one example or two that I and maybe others have noticed. Now the first thing is some of the moveset changes to the characters. Some of those changes where great. Even Bowser can pull off a cheap suicide move on his opponents when given the chance.

Then is the toning down of some of the characters themselve. I mained Mario in the first and second smash bros. but I can't seem to do the same in Brawl. Now how can that be, you ask? Well, I don't know it is but I think Mario's moves have been "toned down" a notch. And his F.L.U.D.D. device isn't too useful really...not to me anyways. Maybe someone else knows advanced strategies with that attack but I don't.

The online play is slightly laggy but SOMETIMES, it gets so laggy that you literally can't tell what you're doing out there. Maybe a slight improvement on the Wi-Fi would be a better choice.

And finally, I wish to mention the Subspace Emissary. Now I enjoy the cutscenes quite a bit but SOMETIMES, I think that some parts in the adventure were unnecessary. And since the characters didn't talk really (except like Ike when he says "GREAT AETHER" or like Mario or I dunno). I just think that it was slightly disappointing but it does not mean that I hate the Subspace Emissary. It gave me some good challenges.

Now I will also agree with the entire game being toned down as far as competitive play is concerned which leads back to what I mentioned about some of the characters being toned down like I mentioned Mario for example.

Overall, Brawl is a great game but in SOME aspects, Melee is more preferable. It depends on the gamer's style and tastes, really.

If you want to say anything to me about it (like ask questions), I will most likely answer them. ^_^;

At 4/6/09 07:02 AM, Aci6 wrote: Ah, there is so much truth in this. Introducing online play was a nice thought, but most of the community turned it from a fun-filled affair into a sordid online affair :(

I think you're wrong on this one. The main killer was just that it doesn't play well unless you have VERY low ping. That's what killed it, not anything about the community.

And if you're referring to the "tourneyfags" as people refer to them, them playing Brawl their way isn't affecting you in the slightest, so why should you give a damn? It's like the whole "assimilation" policy of governments with Aboriginal people - just because they do something differently, it must be wrong, and they MUST play it your way, since that is the way you like it and must therefore be correct.
Perhaps this is a bit of an extreme example, but sometimes extreme examples are needed to get a point across.

The game's meant to be fun and not played competitively, IT WAS JUST AN ADDITION TO THE FUN

The same could be said of the original game of football/soccer, it was just some blokes kicking a bladder, around and was only made to be a bit of fun. And now look at it - FIFA, etc. Some people might have said that it was not meant to be played competitively, since it was just a bit of fun. And when they designed better boots and clothing, that was just an addition to the fun.

The game's meant to be fun and not played competitively, IT WAS JUST AN ADDITION TO THE FUN

The same could be said of the original game of football/soccer, it was just some blokes kicking a bladder, around and was only made to be a bit of fun. And now look at it - FIFA, etc. Some people might have said that it was not meant to be played competitively, since it was just a bit of fun. And when they designed better boots and clothing, that was just an addition to the fun.

couldn't have said it better myself. SSBB IS a step back from Melee no matter what Anyone says!!!

At 4/6/09 07:42 PM, ParadoxVoid wrote:

And if you're referring to the "tourneyfags" as people refer to them, them playing Brawl their way isn't affecting you in the slightest, so why should you give a damn? It's like the whole "assimilation" policy of governments with Aboriginal people - just because they do something differently, it must be wrong, and they MUST play it your way, since that is the way you like it and must therefore be correct.

the only problem I have with the whole tourny aspect of this game is that Melee players who complained about Brawl are trying to set the game up their own way (ie Brawl+) and taking over the Brawl tourny setups and imo that's complete bullshit

if you hate Brawl that's fine, and understandable. but stick to your own game if that's the case.

At 4/6/09 08:58 PM, MAYORMCHEESE wrote:

At 4/6/09 07:42 PM, ParadoxVoid wrote:

And if you're referring to the "tourneyfags" as people refer to them, them playing Brawl their way isn't affecting you in the slightest, so why should you give a damn? It's like the whole "assimilation" policy of governments with Aboriginal people - just because they do something differently, it must be wrong, and they MUST play it your way, since that is the way you like it and must therefore be correct.

the only problem I have with the whole tourny aspect of this game is that Melee players who complained about Brawl are trying to set the game up their own way (ie Brawl+) and taking over the Brawl tourny setups and imo that's complete bullshit

if you hate Brawl that's fine, and understandable. but stick to your own game if that's the case.

If you actually attended tournaments you would realize that there are no Brawl+ tournies (aka they aren't taking over "Brawl tourny setups").

And besides, you're looking at it the wrong way. The people who support Brawl+ like the new additions to Brawl (characters, stages, graphics, etc.) but dislike the watered-down gameplay. By creating Brawl+, they are essentially creating a completely new game that has everything they wanted and hoped for with Brawl.

I support Brawl+ and hacking Wii's (Brawl specifically) because it makes the game more interesting. Although I've never played a match of "Brawl+," I have played matches where people hacked their Wii's to have infinite replay time (no 3 minute limit), every song available to play on any stage, and interesting new textures such as these. The changes were purely aesthetic, but fun nonetheless.

However, I doubt Brawl+ will ever get its own tournament scene, even if I do support it. The fact that you have to hack a Wii to play it is one problem, but even when that is all said and done there will probably be many different versions of Brawl+ to choose from. Because hacking is adding into the equation, players will never be satisfied with character balance. People will demand change because it is will be fast and easy to do. Someone may decide that Ness has to much lag after a PK Fire and then edit his Brawl+ to fix it. Other people who agree will download his fix as well.

With regular Brawl, you don't get to choose what your characters abilities are; they're set in stone. With a game made by hacking and rearranging the parts of an existing game, the option to rearrange them even more is always open. I doubt that the community could ever be 100% content with one version of Brawl+, making it impossible to hold its own as a solid, competitive game (if that makes any sense).

At 4/6/09 07:42 PM, ParadoxVoid wrote: look at it - FIFA, etc. Some people might have said that it was not meant to be played competitively, since it was just a bit of fun. And when they designed better boots and clothing, that was just an addition to the fun.

Yeah and the relevance in that is where?

At 4/6/09 11:44 PM, JingoJoe14 wrote:

If you actually attended tournaments you would realize that there are no Brawl+ tournies (aka they aren't taking over "Brawl tourny setups").

yeah i have, it was all before Brawl+ started popping up though

you're right for the most part though, and i was at fault for rushing the comment about Brawl+ being new norm.

however my opinion is that, if you have to hack a game to play it competitively hen maybe you're playing the wrong game.

At 4/6/09 11:55 PM, Aci6 wrote: Yeah and the relevance in that is where?

Earlier, you wrote:

At 4/6/09 07:02 AM, Aci6 wrote: The game's meant to be fun and not played competitively, IT WAS JUST AN ADDITION TO THE FUN

The game of football could be viewed the same way - both Brawl and Football were originally just games, and people turned them into competitive situations, where some people had strong views against it. If the competitive scene hadn't arisen with Football, there would be no FIFA or English Premier League.

Most people don't play football in the same way as it is played on a competitive level, yet I don't hear people complaining about how professional footballers are ruining the game by adding a competitive element to the game. Perhaps it was just meant "for fun"?

At 4/7/09 05:09 AM, ParadoxVoid wrote: yet I don't hear people complaining about how professional footballers are ruining the game by adding a competitive element to the game. Perhaps it was just meant "for fun"?

No one said it was ruining the game, I merely backed MAYORMCHEESE in his post that worrying about tiers isn't playing the game, the game was originally for fun. Sure you can play competitively but it boils down to the game being most fun without being online and worrying about tiers, it wasn't intended for the game; having tiers.

At 4/7/09 05:16 AM, Aci6 wrote: it wasn't intended for the game; having tiers.

Of course it wasn't intended - the developers want the game to be as balanced as humanely possible at release. But in a game of such complexity, with 35 different characters, all with their own moves, weight, specials and fall speed, doing this is an immense task.

Not to mention that the developers have no idea about some of the tactics that will be brought into the open by the community once the game is released.

When making Melee, the developers had no idea that glitches like Wavedashing and L-cancelling existed in the code, which is just one example of how difficult balancing a game is. When Brawl was released, they fixed these bugs, but others were found, such as the momentum cancelling effects of Mr G&W's bucket, and Snake and some other characters DACUS abilities.