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At 4/8/09 07:30 PM, Mrmilkcarton wrote:

At 4/7/09 01:00 PM, DavidOrr wrote: words

When you voice chords for an orchestral piece do you have parallel octaves and fifths not including pedal tones. I've been told to avoid using them if I can.

Nope- I'd avoid those when possible. The thing is, if you follow strict voice leading practices (as was done by Bach and countless others) you should NEVER have parallel octaves and fifths. Some rules can be broken under certain circumstances, but the only instance I can think of where parallel 5ths can be accepted is when you're using a German Augmented 6 chord to a V chord (which you won't encounter a lot). Modern music is such that anything goes. However, since a lot of the tonal music we base our studies off of follow standard voice leading practices, our ears have developed in a way that parallel octaves and fifths sound strange (they stick out to me like a sore thumb because I'm so used to avoiding them). So, it's not that you CAN'T use them, but you should avoid using them if you're striving for smooth voices.

In an orchestral setting, when parts are doubled (i.e a cello part doubled in the bass), parallels are acceptable because the two parts are considered one unique line.

So, in short, you should not use parallel octaves or 5ths, unless you are doubling parts between instruments. Hopefully that made sense, let me know if something is confusing!

At 4/8/09, DavidOrr, HalcyonicFalconX, and Mrmilkcarton wrote:

STUFF

Hmm keep in mind, you can break these rules and still sound great. For example, take into considering Igor Stravinsky and John Williams. Off the top of my head I can tell you they didn't exactly follow the "rules" in many of their compositions. You might even say that John Williams might have gotten some of his inspirations from Igor Stravinsky. I don't know if that is true, but some of his soundtracks certainly sound like it... meh enough of my blabbering... i don't really know what i'm talking about... I think...

At 4/8/09, DavidOrr, BrokenDeck, Mrmilkcarton, and I wrote:
Lots of stuff.

Yes of course. Music theory back then was created by composers who, through lots of trials and errors, figured out what sounded good and what didn't. Hence they set forth "rules" that people followed. But those rules get broken all the time. The Beatles were criticized when they first came to America for having songs that broke the rules of classical music theory. See where they went? :P

Point is - take all of these pointers in mind. But if something sounds good to you, use it.

Rules are created, bent, and broken.

At 4/9/09 02:34 AM, HalcyonicFalconX wrote: The Beatles were criticized when they first came to America for having songs that broke the rules of classical music theory.

To their credit, they were high as hell, so what could you expect?

Oh and Gravey, I didn't mention your name because I didn't even know you back then hahaha

At 4/9/09 12:15 AM, brokendeck wrote: At 4/8/09, DavidOrr, HalcyonicFalconX, and Mrmilkcarton wrote:

STUFF

Hmm keep in mind, you can break these rules and still sound great. For example, take into considering Igor Stravinsky and John Williams. Off the top of my head I can tell you they didn't exactly follow the "rules" in many of their compositions. You might even say that John Williams might have gotten some of his inspirations from Igor Stravinsky. I don't know if that is true, but some of his soundtracks certainly sound like it... meh enough of my blabbering... i don't really know what i'm talking about... I think...

They certainly did followed rules, just not the same set of rules that Bach and Beethoven followed. The point is, it's a good idea to know the rules and observe them BEFORE you start breaking them.

At 4/9/09 01:45 PM, DavidOrr wrote: They certainly did followed rules, just not the same set of rules that Bach and Beethoven followed. The point is, it's a good idea to know the rules and observe them BEFORE you start breaking them.

what about musicians who smoke pot and have no conceptualization of rules of music theory or physical reality for that matter, and churn out genius?

John williams is a good example. Also check out Scott buckley, he is not a professional but his music sounds great, making him a perfect example. Also Hans Zimmer

At 4/9/09 06:25 PM, btriangle wrote: John williams is a good example. Also check out Scott buckley, he is not a professional but his music sounds great, making him a perfect example. Also Hans Zimmer

Scott is actually a professional. He spent one year in LA and does music for a living after all.

At 4/9/09 02:23 PM, Bjra wrote:

At 4/9/09 01:45 PM, DavidOrr wrote: They certainly did followed rules, just not the same set of rules that Bach and Beethoven followed. The point is, it's a good idea to know the rules and observe them BEFORE you start breaking them.

what about musicians who smoke pot and have no conceptualization of rules of music theory or physical reality for that matter, and churn out genius?

I'd consider them the exception, not the rule. And plus, will most of these geniuses be remembered in 20 years? How about 100?

Michael Giacchino, and Alexander Desplat who did the Benjamin Button score, and also a dude named Jerry Martin who did some impressive tracks on SimCity 4.

And XGM-Zeth.

At 4/9/09 10:39 PM, DavidOrr wrote:

At 4/9/09 02:23 PM, Bjra wrote:

At 4/9/09 01:45 PM, DavidOrr wrote: They certainly did followed rules, just not the same set of rules that Bach and Beethoven followed. The point is, it's a good idea to know the rules and observe them BEFORE you start breaking them.

what about musicians who smoke pot and have no conceptualization of rules of music theory or physical reality for that matter, and churn out genius?

I'd consider them the exception, not the rule. And plus, will most of these geniuses be remembered in 20 years? How about 100?

I'm pretty sureJim Hendrix will be remembered for a very LOOONG time lol. Boy was he HIGH as hell lol :S :S :S Or Jerry Garcia, or Kurt Cobain..... etc. etc. They might be contemporary, but I'm sure they will be remembered for a long time. People said the same thing about Schubert when the Schubertans first started lauding his praises. "Bah he's just a fad" etc. (FYI he was the first musician to have "groupies" so to say...

But besides the point..... rules and theory really do help you on your way to musical success. I'm sure thre was a similiar thread about this sort of thing before..... :/

hey heres some really good epic orchestral music, it really quenches the first :P just thought id give the link b4 i forget to.

http://www.esnips.com/web/EpicScoreEpicA ctionAdventure2

and heres some others the artist has done

http://www.esnips.com/user/jjshanahan

At 2/20/09 04:55 PM, blackattackbitch wrote: Sorry for the double post, and sorry for the above post if it sounds like an advert, but I figured I'd help in a better way.

Two sites you wanna check out for orchestral sounds

http://Sf2midi.com
http://www.papelmedia.de/english/downloa d2.htm

Or you could shell out some cash and buy edirol orchestral, miroslav philharmonik, east-west, or god-forbid vienna symphonic library.

Vienna!? Yeh, you should get that if you have enough for another house,

I suggest east west quantum leap and Kontakt (latest one)

also, www.intero.newgrounds.com
and my attempt at epic xD: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/2 19239

Not bad, just needsa little more power. ;)

{Heim} No Fear, No Mercy, by basbalfan55 Type: LoopGenre: Classical

This is my most epic orchestral piece by far.