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Black Sabbath is metal...
Judas Priest is metal...
Iron Maiden is metal...

Guns N Roses are more rock... Not even... I can't give them a genre due to their shittiness.

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nicely said handsomepete.

Personally i dont see why this is this so important to you. Music is divided into genre so they are targeted at the right target audience, links between genre's help us to look at a wider range of music aswell and i personally think it doesn't matter what genre they are in because people like the music. i like rock, metal, punk as genres but i dont like all the songs released by such artists.

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Meh I don't really care what they are as long as they're awesome.

WHICH THEY ARE HURHUR

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At 2/20/09 05:56 PM, Mendou wrote: What a waste of time, who cares if they're metal or hard rock?(Which they obviously are). Thinking G'N R are heavy metal is like saying Bon Jovi were Heavy metal.

Or to keep the OP from arguing that Bon Jovi is metal its like saying Jonas Brothers are hard rock cause they play guitar or that FOB is good just because they have a lot of fans.

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At 2/20/09 05:57 PM, EpicFail wrote: Black Sabbath is metal...
Judas Priest is metal...
Iron Maiden is metal...

Guns N Roses are more rock... Not even... I can't give them a genre due to their shittiness.

G n' R is M-E-T-A-L. I think the problem is many are used to hearing these "cookie cutter - sound alike - sing as throat wrecking deep as possible" metal bands and don't know what real metal is. Metal is not about the sound, it's about the ATTITUDE (then maybe the sound).

What G n' R is rock because they have a few soft songs? The 3 metal bands above all have soft songs also (especially Priest who has some of the best ones).

I think this is a stupid ass topic anyway. Just another one for people to flame each other.

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Man what the fuck are you talking about, no music genre is defined by attitude, of course its the sound.
Also what exactly is the "metal attitude"? I´ve never heard of this shit.

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I would consider them to be hard rock, and that's after being an avid fan of them for the last 8 years and rpetty much knowing every pre chinese democracy song of theirs inside out. I used to be obsessed, and now I can't listen to them anymore. Chinese democracy isn't Guns N' Roses. It's mediocre at best, only a couple songs are worth listening to and I consider it now to be pop rock. Velvet revolver are more hard rock than Guns N' Roses, hell, they're more Guns N' Roses than Guns N' Roses.

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A little off topic, but Guns and Roses really took a nose dive after they kicked the Gunns out.

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Hard rock.

;

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At 2/19/09 11:47 AM, Alastor wrote: I can already tell you're a douchebag.

Haha lol, yeah. More like generic suckage.

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Hard rock.

end topic

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At 2/20/09 07:06 PM, wildfire4461 wrote: G n' R is M-E-T-A-L.

You are so obviously the OP's alt.

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At 2/21/09 12:22 AM, OverCynicalBlasphemy wrote:

At 2/20/09 07:06 PM, wildfire4461 wrote: G n' R is M-E-T-A-L.

You are so obviously the OP's alt.

So you think i'm him on another account IOW. If so you're a dumbass.

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they fall into Classic Rock... yeah i heard their new CD.. i was not impressed... they should officially disband

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rock. they have none of the characteristics of metal:

double bass drumming
heavily palm muted, power chord based riffs
non- girly vocals
manly lyrics
horrendous profanity

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I guess it depends on what song your listening to as to which they are...i can say they are among my fav bands.....got em tattooed on mah back

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At 2/21/09 02:50 AM, CutterMoore wrote: I guess it depends on what song your listening to as to which they are...i can say they are among my fav bands.....got em tattooed on mah back

Oh dear.. you know what they say about guys with Guns N' Roses tattoos.

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I am not the best at explaining things, but I will try my best

Guns and Roses are hard rock, their music is all hard rock and has a certain type of feeling that is located within classic hard rock, metal is different in the aspect that it has a heavier tone to it than hard rock, and is usually a little more intricate in some way or another and just overall has a different feel to it than hard rock,

metal song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAagedeKd cQ

hard rock song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLRy4EHF 0k&feature=related

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I'm not one to typically say "Democracy makes it right" but I think this thread has achieved a fairly general consensus.

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At 2/20/09 04:44 PM, HandsomePete wrote: Look, I'm not here calling you an idiot or making fun of you, but again, I don't know why you'd ask a question to which you're clearly not ready to hear the answer.

Maybe, just maybe... it's because I wanted to be friendly and talk to new people about everyday things like music. Why is that so hard to understand? Why do you feel that everything has to be a serious life-or-death situation in which there can only be one answer? And why do you feel that I'm the one not listening when you're just as easily refusing to take into account anything I've said? Why would you reply to a topic to which you clearly weren't ready to hear the response?

This is a debate... what else where you expecting? It wouldn't be much of a topic if I responded to the first person who posted here with "I agree" would it?

We've gotten 3 pages of fun out of it and we've managed to kill a fair amount of time. Isn't the the point of a forum? Also, this is the last time I'm explaining this... if you can't have a friendly conversation with me then just simply don't respond. I refuse to waist any more time trying to expalin to you the basics of human communication nor do I want my topic revereted from music to a pointless flame war because you don't know how to be polite. From hear on out, if it's not about GnR or the diffrences between metal and rock, you will get no response.

I hate to pull the trump card, but Bon Jovi was once considered a Hair Metal band.

But only for a short time. Nothing else Bon Jovi ever did was metal... he had a few hit songs that seemed to match the metal genra of the time but none of the rest of his songs or albums ever followed suit. Bon Jovi also never carried the heavy metal attitude or garnered a heavy metal fan base. Bon Jovi wasn't on the road with Antrhax or Metallica and I'm not sure you would find a single metal fan on the planet who would consider anything Bon Jovi did as "metal".

See, this is where the 'attitude' comes in. Bon Jovi didn't act the part... they didn't look the part either. They very lightly touched on playing the part, but they didn't sell it to those who where involved in the metal scene nor did they garner their fame through heavy metal antics or tours with other heavy metal groups. Bon Jovi are rock.

And please, for the love of Shiva, quit using the "toured with Metallica" defense.

Why? Why would I just drop a key argument in my case? Because you don't have anything to play against it? That's not fair... I'm not just going to bow down and hand you the debate simply because you're not creative enough to come up with anything to debate against it. I would consider GnR and Metallic tour a key part in why GnR are a metal band. Once again, if they weren't metal, metal fans wouldn't want to hear them and they wouldn't have been co-headliners on the biggest touring metal show since Ozzfest.

Big name tours have more to do with business than they do with talent or genre.

Madonna was more popular then metallica... Metallica didn't tour with Madonna. Genre has a lot to do with it.

You asked people what they thought. This isn't about you.

Actually, it is. It's my topic. Maybe, for once, this isn't about you... did you ever stop to think about that?

Pump was about as artistic as the Jonas Brothers.

You missed the point. Metal bands are known for their dark and twisted album artwork. It's like a staple in the metal genra. Where rock bands like Aerosmith have album covers featuring toys or two trucks questionably humping, metal bands use skulls, death, and violent crimes to sell their artwork.

GnRs album artwork featured murder and rape. That's a 'metal' album cover... when that was too much, it was replaced with the color black and skulls... also big features for metal bands. If GnR was a rock band, their album artwork probably would have been just a logo (ALa: Van Halen) or some random, unoffensive image like an empty city street.

play in a band who's every song is about Necrophilia... So are we metal?

Possibly... it would depend on the content. If the lyrics are extremely graphic, generally offensive, and show little or no respect for the victems and the decesased while possibly makeing the criminal appear to be the hero, then yes... you are a metal band. Even if you wear sweater vests and play accoustic guitars, if your lyrical content offends the masses, then you're most likely metal as you're doing to make people mad, not because you actually want to spread a message.

If your lyrics are deep and used to spread awareness for the situation at hand then probably not. You still could be if your music reflects one of the extremes of the metal genra... but if you're not that loud or fast then you're just rock or punk. Metal isn't a black and white genre like other forms of music. Metal is more about the attitude then it is the music. That's why metal can range from Hair-metal, to black-metal and cover everything inbetween, including jazz, tecno, and just mathmatics-based noise.

At 2/20/09 05:57 PM, EpicFail wrote: Judas Priest is metal...
Guns N Roses are more rock...

Why? What makes Judas Preist more metal then GnR? How is "breakin' the law" heavier then Welcome to the Jungle or Rocketqueen?

At 2/20/09 06:44 PM, OverCynicalBlasphemy wrote: Or to keep the OP from arguing that Bon Jovi is metal its like saying Jonas Brothers are hard rock cause they play guitar or that FOB is good just because they have a lot of fans.

Why would I agrue Bon Jovi are metal? Where did that even come from? Until now, I've never even mentioned Bon Jovi. HandomePete did... and he claimed they where metal, not me. I know you where trying to insult me, but thanks for the support... I'm glad to see that we both agree that Bon Jovi aren't metal. Too bad this topic isn't about Bon Jovi huh?

At 2/20/09 07:06 PM, wildfire4461 wrote: Metal is not about the sound, it's about the ATTITUDE (then maybe the sound).

Agreed... metal is an attitude. That's why the metal genra has so many sub-categories... it's why you can have both hair and black metal... because metal fans realize that it's not the particular style of the song that makes it metal, but the attitude behind the music. GnR did not match the Rock n Roll attitude of 1985. They where metal heads... and other metal heards saw and respected that. Which why GnR albums sold to metal fans which is why GnR albums had metal album artwork, and it's why GnR where able to co-headline with the biggest name to ever hit the heavy metal genra without tanking or completly bombing out.

At 2/20/09 07:12 PM, DeIirium wrote: Man what the fuck are you talking about, no music genre is defined by attitude, of course its the sound.

What's the sound of heavy metal then? Keep in mind, the sound you describe needs to match all forms of metal, not just trash or progressive metal. What one sound can incompass Mortician, Candiria, Pantera, Disturbed, and Dimmu Borgir?

Also what exactly is the "metal attitude"? I´ve never heard of this shit.

I like to think of it as simply "not giving a fuck and doing what it takes to have fun". Pushing the limits and not paying any mind to what others think of you. It's sort of like punk rock, but without the bullshit "anti-establishment" message. metal heads don't care enough to take up a cause... we're too busy having fun to care about how much money a complete stranger makes off of wal-mart a day.

At 2/21/09 12:22 AM, OverCynicalBlasphemy wrote: You are so obviously the OP's alt.

My alt is "lolomfgisuck". I only use it when I feel like trolling. Just ask the mods if you don't believe me.

At 2/21/09 01:14 AM, Armadilldo wrote: double bass drumming

Black Sabbath

heavily palm muted, power chord based riffs

Power Chords? This is metal, not punk.

non- girly vocals

Iron Maiden?

manly lyrics

Dio-Rainbow in the dark?

horrendous profanity

I can't even quote the one in a million lyrics here, NG won't let me post if I do. Also: GnR Advisory sticker told those offended to "Fuck off". Signed G n F'n Roses

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Sorry for the double post, didn't have enough room last time for the links.

At 2/21/09 03:17 AM, Lost-Thought wrote: metal song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAagedeKd cQ

Judas Priest PainKiller - released in 1990.

hard rock song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLRy4EHF 0k&feature=related

Guns N Roses - Paradise City, released in 1987. Written by the band in the back of a van on their way home from a gig... possibly places it's written date in 1986. Regardless, we have a 3 or 4 year diffrence... not much of a fair comparison.

On the other hand, here's a Judas Priest song from 88.

If that is metal, Rocketqueen and Nightrain have to be.

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I guess you missed the part where it was stated how tiresome this argument was... Quickly, because no one cares:

1) Bon Jovi was considered a Hair Metal band back in the day. That's what I mean when I say that Hair Metal doesn't mean the same thing as Metal Metal.
2) My band is a horror PUNK band, not metal. In fact, my guitarist is in jail right now for smashing a beer mug over a Metal guy's face for being an ass. The Metal guy did not think my friend was Metal, so he got his ass kicked. I like metal, punk, goth, and all sorts of crazy shit, so I had no beef. But my point being - Being macabre doesn't make you metal, playing Metal music does.
3) We get to cut Rob Halford a break cuz he's gay.

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metal-rock

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At 2/21/09 12:59 AM, MissingNYC wrote: they fall into Classic Rock... yeah i heard their new CD.. i was not impressed... they should officially disband

It's terrible my friend let listen to it when I was round his once and I ended up putting some true Hard Rock on. They've lost their way, it wasn;t worth waiting like 13years for (which most of the hardcore fans would have done)

Of course I didn't I'm only 19 xD

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At 2/21/09 02:51 AM, CapnCrunchDaPimp wrote:

At 2/21/09 02:50 AM, CutterMoore wrote: I guess it depends on what song your listening to as to which they are...i can say they are among my fav bands.....got em tattooed on mah back

Oh dear.. you know what they say about guys with Guns N' Roses tattoos.

No, my friend, please enlighten me....what do they say? and who exactly is 'they'?

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Metal is a form of rock.

But yea, I guess you could say they are metal.

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At 2/23/09 02:13 PM, ZagmenO wrote: Metal is a form of rock.

But yea, I guess you could say they are metal.

It's not really a form of Rock, it derrives from Rock and Punk. And think about how many sub-genres of Metal there are to say that they are a form of rock..
You wouldn't say Death - Metal is a form of rock.

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Rock,definitely rock.

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At 2/23/09 02:13 PM, ZagmenO wrote: Metal is a form of rock.

Virtually every form of music performed by white people during the past 50-60 years has been considered some form of Rock. Country is rock.

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At 2/23/09 01:10 PM, HandsomePete wrote: I guess you missed the part where it was stated how tiresome this argument was

Then why respond. I guess you missed the multiple times that I've politely explained to you that this is all

just for mindless entertainment. It's a shame me and you can't just have a friendly discussion without you

retaining water and shoving a truck load of sand in your vagina.

1) That's what I mean when I say that Hair Metal doesn't mean the same thing as Metal Metal.

Sure it does... why would hair metal not be considered a form of metal? That's like saying the Rammones aren't

punk, they're more like pop rock simply because the standard of punk music has changed over the years. It was

punk when they did it... they had a punk rock attitude and they did it to promote the punk rock way of life.

Therefor, it's punk rock and it always will be regardless of how many Green Days and Pennywise show up to

change the sound of Punk forever.

As far as Bon Jovi are concerned, the only reason they're not considered a metal band is because they

progressivly changed to show that metal wasn't the genre they wanted to be associated with. If Slippery When

Wet was the last album they ever made, they'd be a metal band... but because Bon Jovi himself, and the band,

continued to slow and soften their sound it became blatenly obvious that there was nothing metal about Jovi

from either a musical or a lifestlye point of view.

It became clear that Shot through the Heart was more like a trendy fluke then it was a heavy metal statement.

Welcome to the Jungle wasn't a trendy cash in on a current radio trend. It was raw, and real... the fact that

it sold was just a bonus.

Jovi never wanted to be the most extreme... he never wanted to be the fastest, loudest, or known for being a

trouble maker or a party king. There was nothing metal about his attitude, and the majority of his songs and

his entire career reflect that. Jovi, isn't metal.

GnR, on the other hand, showed great pride in being obnoxious drunken fucks who didn't care what anyone

thought. They got pleasure out of making the front page based on fight fights, not their music. They never

changed their look or their sound to cash in... even when love-ballads where hot, GnR never went that route.

That's not to say that some of their songs didn't hit as ballads, but I think it's obvious that Sweet Child O

Mine and "I'll be there for you" where written for two entirely diffrent reasons. Truth be told, some of the

guys in GnR didn't even like Sweet Child O Mine, they just used it cause they needed a song for the album and

Axel was fond of it. Had it been up to Slash, nobody would have ever heard that song... It wasn't until the

90s that songs like Don't Cry and November Rain would appear... long after the ballad trend was over.

Jovi was a trend follower. He played the middle road and wrote whatever was popular at the time. When Def

Leppard where kicking ass, Jovi wrote "Shot through the heart". When "Every Rose has it's thorn" got big, Jovi

wrote "I'll be there for you". He did what he liked, but also did what he knew would sell. There was no extreme

anything behind it... it wasn't metal, just trendy.

Jovi is about as metal, as Green Day are punk rock.

Being macabre doesn't make you metal, playing Metal music does.

And GnR didn't play metal music? It's 1985... everyone was listening to Heart. People where so nieve that Dee

Snider had to go to court and fight for his right to sing "We're not gonna take it" of all things. Think about

it... We're not gonna take it was considered so bad that he had to fight in a court of law for the ability to

retain the rights to sing it. He did so for not just Twisted Sister, but all metal bands... hell, any musician

who wanted to freely express himself.

If "We're not gonna take it" was so bad and rowdy that it litterally scared Tipper Gore into a frenzy, GnR had

to be the work of Satan himself. Screw "we're not gonna take it", Axel was calling everybody N***ers and

Faggots, and the albums mandatory parental advisory told everyone to go fuck themself if they where offended by

it.

I don't see how we can say "Twisted Sister where metal" but then turn around and say GnR aren't when it's

obvious the two share an awful lot in common.

The fact that GnR wore black and used violence and death on their album art is just furture proof of the metal

attitude. They're not like Jovi who stumbled into a Hair Metal hit but wore brown vests and had album artwork

that featured nothing other then a band logo and a cd name. Bon Jovi fails where the GnR attitude picks up...

which is why Jov is rock, and GnR are metal. There is a very clear and distinctive diffrence between the two.

It's strange that someone who claims to be punk rock wouldn't understand this. Are you implying that there is

no "punk rock attitude" in the punk rock scene? Are you implying that I would be punk rock if I simply removed

the solos from my bands music? Are you implying that even though I hate everything punk rock stands for, and

can't stand any of the original punk rock bands, that I'd still be just as punk as you if I played powerchords

and covered the occasional No Doubt track?

Blink 182 are just as punk rock as the Sex Pistols? Green Day just as punk as the Clash? The Crass and the

Exploited not as punk as the Offspring? Iggy Pop not as punk as Avril Lavigne?

Who are you trying to kid here... your music of choice requires just as much lifestyle dedication as mine, yet

you claim not to understand my point? I do hope you can clafiry this for me.