Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

rock.. metal..

They are liquid.

yeah I fail..

Its hard rock.

At best it might be considered Hair metal, which isn't metal.

Guns are made of metal, not stone.

At 2/19/09 11:45 AM, DroopyA wrote: I say they're metal... I'd also say anyone that disagrees with me is either really young or just plain foolish.

So basically anybody who disagrees with your opinion is a fool?

Conceded much?

At 2/19/09 11:48 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: If it's metal it's pop-metal.

definately not pop-metal
this would be classified as classic metal
this is because nowadays the "metal" genre is more hardcore and GNR would fall into rock if it was just starting in this day and age.

I would say they are very light metal, they aren't exactly System of a Down heavy, but it's heavier than AC/DC.

At 2/19/09 05:02 PM, DroopyA wrote:

At 2/19/09 01:04 PM, HandsomePete wrote: That doesn't change my response at all though. Metallica in the 80s was metal:

You do realize GnR toured with Metallica right? As a second headliner...

Sooooo... that makes GnR Metal? How about when Aerosmith and Run DMC worked together, is Aerosmith a rap group now?

There's a reason the new nickname for Hair Metal is Cock Rock.

I've never heard anyone refer to a Cock Rock band... although the term Hair METAL is still widly popular.

If you're still considering GnR Metal, than you're probably talking to the wrong people about this. Talk to people at a Lamb of God concert or something, and someone will probably call 80's Hair Metal Cock Rock.

The key word there, is METAL. I fail to see how a band is no longer metal just because time has passed... older bands aren't going to be as heavy as the newer ones... they're old and don't write new music, thus it's impossible to keep up with the modern changes. But to strip a metal band of it's metal title just because they retired is bullshit. We don't do that to sport-stars or presidents... why would do it to musicians?

Because, like I said, it was never really "Metal," it was hard rock. Hair Metal is about as Metal as Soft Rock is Rock.

In 1985 Bruce Springstein was Rock n Roll... I think it's fair to say GnR where a lot heavier then that, thus rendering them Metal.

The freaking Police were heavier than Bruce Springstein.

Keep in mind Metallica and Slayer where Thrash metal... I hate to be a sub-genra guy but it is important here. Metal didn't start with Metallica, it just got faster. Sabbath started the metal movement in the 70s...

Sabbat is heavier than GnR and it had a totally different sound scheme and dynamic. Modern metal has much more in common with the likes of Electric Funeral. GnR didn't do stuff like that.

and there are, and where, plenty of metal bands that didn't need to speed pick their way into the genra. I would think GnR is one that fits in nicely. If we can rank Poision as a form of metal, I think GnR deserve their place without argument.

There is no reason to consider Poison Metal.

Second though on this... doesn't the existance of Hair Metal and GnRs strange absense from the genra make them more metal?

No. That makes absolutely no sense.

I mean... Hair Metal bands wore makeup, made themself look pretty, and spent a lot of time on flashy stage shows and backstage anticts with strippers.

The music was still pretty similar, which should really be the basis of your claims, and I guarantee there were just as many stripper parties with GnR as any of them.

But GnR weren't that... when the trend in metal was to wear pink and sink about having a "good time", GnR where wearing black leather and drinking themself into fist fights. Their songs where about massive drug use and their album artwork featured skulls and rape victems.

Axel came out in baseball catcher's equipment or something like that half of the time... Come on...

Doesn't that say "heavy metal" loud and clear? They played faster, they played louder, and they refused to give a fuck about public image or joining in on the current trends. Even their artwork had the popular metal imagry... skulls and rape victems.

GnR was as popular as any of the other guys. They didn't play faster or louder, but maybe a little better. And there were plenty of hair metal bands who threw skulls and crap on their shit.

Here's a Poison T-Shirt

At 2/19/09 11:47 AM, ForNoReason wrote: does that many people still care about GNR? I would consider them light metal, seeings as the genre of metal has evolved so much since GNR originally came out...

Indeed. Chinese Democracy was a little heavier than previous albums, however. At first glance, I immediately thought of them as rock, but I suppose they are a sort of light metal.

I call it "80's" metal. It's not quite the same as this time's metal, but it's still metal....

At 2/19/09 08:29 PM, HandsomePete wrote:

You do realize GnR toured with Metallica right? As a second headliner...

Sooooo... that makes GnR Metal? How about when Aerosmith and Run DMC worked together, is Aerosmith a rap group now?

Yeah, it does make GnR metal... not all by itself, but it is proof that they're more metal then rock. GnR was a bunch of long-haired tatooed leather and chain wearing drug users with skulls and rape victems on the front of their albums featuring loud, fast songs with multiple ear-peircing solos about casual sex and the late-night underground drug scene who fist fought their front row fans durring their headling tour with the biggest band in Heavy Metal since... well... ever.

All of that says 'Metal'... not just the tour. But the tour is a big peice of it... Metallica weren't the peice of shit they are now. This tour took place durring the highlight of their career... they could have toured with anyone... and the only other band that could pull in enough metal heads to make it worth their while, was Guns N Roses. That says METAL lound and clear to me.

If GnR weren't a metal band, Metal heads wouldn't have wanted to see them and they would have never been able to tour with the biggest metal band in the world.

If you're still considering GnR Metal...

Still? Why would I not STILL consider them metal? Once again why do we boot musicians out of their musical genra just because they retired? Why do you STILL consider Black Sabbath metal but you won't give that same respect to GNR? Why are GNR listed as a band that "was" metal, but isn't anymore when that same standard doesn't apply to any other band on the planet?

This has to stop here... bands can't be removed from their genra due to age. Twisted Sister, Sabbath, Iron Maiden, will all always be metal bands regardless of what year it is. It's all about respect... they laid the groundwork for your metal bands today. Don't strip them of their purple heart just because their war is over.

Because, like I said, it was never really "Metal," it was hard rock. Hair Metal is about as Metal as Soft Rock is Rock.

How can you say that? Do you not feel that attitude has anything to do with it? Then you know nothing of metal... if attitude doesn't make a metal band then why are Candiria considered metal when they actually play more freeform jazz then anything? Why is a jazzy metal band still a metal band?

The freaking Police were heavier than Bruce Springstein.

Agreed, and Bruce Springstein is what people considered Rock n Roll in that time period. If that lame ass old woman shit is rock, then GnR have got to be metal.

Sabbat is heavier than GnR and it had a totally different sound scheme and dynamic. Modern metal has much more in common with the likes of Electric Funeral. GnR didn't do stuff like that.

I don't care about modern metal... I mean, I do... but not in this conversation. GnR aren't a modern band, they died out in the mid 90s. They started in the mid 80s. It's all about what was considered metal in 85.

1985... Prince, Madonna, Wham, Heart, Pat Benetar, Phil Collins, Duran Duran, Sting, Tears for Fears, Mr Mister, Foreigner, Dire Straits, ZZ Top... I'm pretty sure GnR where way more Hardcore then these groups. I'd consider that metal.

There is no reason to consider Poison Metal.

WHAT? Why not? Is Hair Metal no longer a form of metal? So what is metal then... Slipknot? I mean, they play fast and have screaming vocals... according to you, that seems to be all that matters. Sorry Judas Preist... :(

Second though on this... doesn't the existance of Hair Metal and GnRs strange absense from the genra make them more metal?

No. That makes absolutely no sense.

Sure it does. "Your Mamma don't dance" and "Rocket Queen" have a real similar style and feel... yet one song was done by a bunch of guys in high heels and makeup, while the other was written by a bunch of heroin addicts.

I say this... because it's important to note that music isn't the only thing that defines a band. The attitude of the members counts just as much. And although GnR weren't as wild as Slayer musically, the attitude and their utter disgust for the modern trends in society is what drove them into the deeper realms of metal. It was obvious Slash and Axel weren't pretty boys... it was obvious that they wanted nothing to do with the glam-rock scene. They where the same as Metallica... but with a diffrent style. They where ugly, dirty, fuck ups that wanted to do little more then play loud, get fucked up, and have a good time. That's heavy metal... thats why heavy metal fans listened to them... that's why they are a heavy metal band.

Not that it should even matter... once again, Poision = Glam METAL. If Poision are a form of metal, GnR have to be too.

The music was still pretty similar, which should really be the basis of your claims,

It is... Hair metal is metal... GnR where heavier then that. They weren't as heavy as Metallica but they where heavier then Posion. Poision < GnR < Metallica.

Posion = metal
GnR = metal
Metallica = metal

GnR are a metal band. Always have been, always will be. If the music doesn't say it on it's own, the bands look (or lack there of), attitude, and history should prove otherwise.

Axel came out in baseball catcher's equipment or something like that half of the time... Come on...

And? Are you implying that no metal band has ever worn some silly costume on stage? Alice Cooper, Manson, and Gwar would probably argue otherwise.

And there were plenty of hair metal bands who threw skulls and crap on their shit.
Here's a Poison T-Shirt

Wow... a metal band with metal icons on their Shirt... go figure. Poison are a metal band... got a Lisa Lobe shirt featuring a raped corpse?

There should be a law that states that anyone stupid enough to think Guns n roses are metal will get a death sentence.

I would vote for "Shit" if it was an option.

Pop.

At 2/20/09 11:54 AM, Doonie wrote: Pop.

So You Guys are calling November Rain HEAVY METAL/ROCK?

Its a mixture of Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Ballads

I Feel GNR went for Heavy Metal in Chinese Democracy

Rock, definately.

Nah, I'd say they're more rock than anything. They fit in best with that genre.

They'd also be much better without Axl Rose as their singer, but that's obviously a lost hope.

HandsomePete is the only one offering logical arguments in this discussion.

OP is an idiot and refuses to accept that calling GnR metal is like calling Beastie Boys rap.

At 2/20/09 11:20 AM, DroopyA wrote:

Yeah, it does make GnR metal... not all by itself, but it is proof that they're more metal then rock. GnR was a bunch of long-haired tatooed leather and chain wearing drug users with skulls and rape victems on the front of their albums featuring loud, fast songs with multiple ear-peircing solos about casual sex and the late-night underground drug scene who fist fought their front row fans durring their headling tour with the biggest band in Heavy Metal since... well... ever.

All of that says 'Metal'... not just the tour. But the tour is a big peice of it... Metallica weren't the peice of shit they are now. This tour took place durring the highlight of their career... they could have toured with anyone... and the only other band that could pull in enough metal heads to make it worth their while, was Guns N Roses. That says METAL lound and clear to me.

The MUSIC says metal. Doesn't anyone remember the Onyx/Biohazard tag team in the early 90's?... Actually, chances are no, but I do. Biohazard was still Metal afterward, and Onyx was still rap. Billy Corgan used to hang out with Marilyn Manson.. Are either of them in the same genre? No.

If GnR weren't a metal band, Metal heads wouldn't have wanted to see them and they would have never been able to tour with the biggest metal band in the world.

I see tons of shit bands playing with bands I wanna see. Not saying that GnR is shit, per say.

If you're still considering GnR Metal...

Still? Why would I not STILL consider them metal? Once again why do we boot musicians out of their musical genra just because they retired? Why do you STILL consider Black Sabbath metal but you won't give that same respect to GNR? Why are GNR listed as a band that "was" metal, but isn't anymore when that same standard doesn't apply to any other band on the planet?

Because to be Hair Metal, you need the word HAIR in there... Haven't you ever taken that test? How long was the 100 years war? What is Cat Gut made of? It's a bunch of misnomers.

This has to stop here... bands can't be removed from their genra due to age. Twisted Sister, Sabbath, Iron Maiden, will all always be metal bands regardless of what year it is. It's all about respect... they laid the groundwork for your metal bands today. Don't strip them of their purple heart just because their war is over.

Twisted Sister is another example, but Maiden and Sabbath are unquestionably metal. I like TS as much as the next guy, hell, my punk band did a cover of We're Not Gonna Take It for Halloween. I never considered GnR metal, so I'm not taking anything away.

Because, like I said, it was never really "Metal," it was hard rock. Hair Metal is about as Metal as Soft Rock is Rock.

Agreed, and Bruce Springstein is what people considered Rock n Roll in that time period. If that lame ass old woman shit is rock, then GnR have got to be metal.

Gaaah... Nooooo... Ok, fuck it, I'm done point by pointing this... You asked whether people thought GnR was metal or not, and aren't listening to any of the argument. If you're gonna be like this, this thread is worthless. If you'd have started with "Guns and Roses is the best metal band ever" I wouldn't have even started this, nor would I have even read the thread. I'm not even going to read the rest of what you wrote, because it's entirely irrelevant. You asked a question, and you didn't like the answer. I did skim down to the bottom, and with today's fashion sense, I'm pretty sure I probably could find a Lisa Loeb shirt with skulls on it somewhere. And what's with all the "Rape victim" shit? You're like obsessed with that. What are you even talking about, some girl that got beat up, (probably by Axel, given his past) and somehow that makes them Metal? A rape victim doesn't make a metal band, maybe a mutilated carcass..

Your an idiot, Poison and Guns N' Roses are both NOT metal.

I would say toeing the line between Hard Rock and Light Metal.

At 2/20/09 01:53 PM, Platinum wrote: OP is an idiot and refuses to accept that calling GnR metal is like calling Beastie Boys rap.

That's so odd... because to me, it's balently clear that GnR are not a rock band. Maybe it's because I was alive in 1985 to see it all go down. It's funny, because I don't recall anybody standing in line for hours to get their hands on a copy of use your Illusions at midnight listening to Phil Collins.

1985 was along time ago... Aerosmith wouldn't release Pump for four more years... and it's most rocking songs would be "Janies got a gun" and "Love in an Elevator". Ride the Lightining had just been released but has yet to reach the top 100 on the Billboard charts. Metallica are touring Europe opening up for a band called "Tank" to shows with an average of 1,000 people in the audience. Wham are toping the billboard charts with Madonna's "Like a Virgin" in a close second. Bryan Adams has just released "Heaven" and Freddy Cougar is just about to see his first sequal. We've yet to go Back to the Future, "Teen Wolf" seemed like a good idea for a movie, and MTV is barely 3 years old.

Van Halen are just becoming Van Hagar and your parents think Def Lepord are too loud. The fashion on the streets involves neon and the current trend in Rock and Roll is leg warmers and big hair. Songs about dancing currently make the most money. Metal is sonanomous with Kiss, nobody has yet to scream their vocals, and Bruce Dickenson is the voice of metal. Eddie, is our god. Twisted Sister are the devil and Dee Snider is about to go to court and testify in front Al and Tipper Gore in order to defend his right to be able to continue singing such offensive songs as "We're not gonna take it".

Somewhere out there... Guns N Roses are wearing black leather and shooting herion to the point where they can't even stand. Axel is drunk and throwing beer bottles at a guy in the audience who said something about someones mother, and their about to click off into any number of classic songs found on the appitite for destruction album... except Sweet Child O Mine, it has yet to be written. The audience is small but loyal, and most of the people there are long haired stoners wearing blue jean sleavless jackets with metal band patches swen into the back. There's not a Bryan Adams fan in the house...

I don't see how GnR can be Rock and Roll in this world. It just doesn't make sense... they don't fit in with the other bands in the Rock Category. The media hates them and often blames them for things that aren't their fault, none of the members care about press or promotion, and all of them seem to enjoy pissing everybody off and just generally getting into trouble. 5 years from now Appitite for Destruction will win Favorite Heavy Metal album at the American Music Awards and the band will follow up the win with Favorite heavy Metal artist later that night. 2 years later, they would Co-Headline a tour with Metallica.

It just doesn't sound the like the career of a rock band.

The point of bands back then wasn't to follow a genre though a majority of they're songs are kinda metalish they are a rock n roll band and that's all you need to know

At 2/20/09 04:24 PM, DroopyA wrote: Hey guys, I still think I'm right even though several people have proved me wrong.

Whatever you say, buddy.

They're obviously rock. In fact, they're classic rock.

At 2/20/09 03:51 PM, HandsomePete wrote: The MUSIC says metal. Doesn't anyone remember the Onyx/Biohazard tag team in the early 90's?... Actually, chances are no, but I do. Biohazard was still Metal afterward, and Onyx was still rap. Billy Corgan used to hang out with Marilyn Manson.. Are either of them in the same genre? No.

What are you talking about? How does a collaberation on one song have anything to do with Guns N Roses living a heavy metal life style and selling their music to heavy metal fans? Anthrax did a song with Public Enemy and Michael Jackson joined forces with Lionel Richie and Kenny Loggins to record "We are the world". So what?

I think you're missing my point about just how big it was to co-headline with Metallica. We're talking about shows that go so out of hand people got trampled to death and riots ensued. Seriously... riots.

I see tons of shit bands playing with bands I wanna see. Not saying that GnR is shit, per say.

This was Metallica and Guns N Roses. It could have been Metallica and Slayer... or Metallica and Anthrax... but it wasn't because metal heads wanted to see Guns N Roses more.

Because to be Hair Metal, you need the word HAIR in there... Haven't you ever taken that test? How long was the 100 years war? What is Cat Gut made of? It's a bunch of misnomers.

It's still a form of metal. Are you implying Metallica aren't metal because the word Thrash or Speed comes first?

Gaaah... Nooooo... Ok, fuck it, I'm done point by pointing this... You asked whether people thought GnR was metal or not, and aren't listening to any of the argument.

You're not exactly hearing anything I say either. I've yet to hear you say... "good point" so from where I'm sitting, you're easly just as guilty as me. Besides, did you actually think this conversation would change anyones mind? It's the internet... and worse yet, it's Newgrounds. How serious did you think this was going to get? I just want to debate it because I'm bored and have nothing else to do. It's been a good time killer for the both of us and I'm sorry if you're getting upset instead of just having fun.

If you'd have started with "Guns and Roses is the best metal band ever"

Why would I say that? That's not true at all. In fact, that's not even what I'm trying to argue... I don't care if you think they're good, I just want you to admit that they're a metal band.

And what's with all the "Rape victim" shit?

The original artwork to the Appitite album featured a robot in a trench coat raping a helpless blond on the side of the street. The picture feaurted pantys around the ankle and everything. It caused a big controversy and some stores refused to sell the album. Other stores where preassured to place brown bags over the front of the records. It was later changed to a tattoo that Axel had previously gotten on his arm of him and his bandmates in skull form.

I think it's an important peice in the argument for them being metal as having offensive album art is usually a staple for metal bands.... where as rock groups usually aim for something more artistic or random (IE: Aerosmith with Pump). Guns N Roses took the Cannible Corpse approach here and put monsters and rape on the front of their album. When that was removed, Skulls followed. That's something metal bands do... not rock bands.

What are you even talking about, some girl that got beat up, (probably by Axel, given his past) and somehow that makes them Metal?

...see, as I said earlier... everyone who disagrees with me is either too young to have seen and heard GnR when it was new, or just foolish. I'll consider your lack of knowledge about the early GnR contorversy days as "foolish".

At 2/20/09 04:24 PM, DroopyA wrote:

I don't see how GnR can be Rock and Roll in this world. It just doesn't make sense...and then some other stuff.

Look, I'm not here calling you an idiot or making fun of you, but again, I don't know why you'd ask a question to which you're clearly not ready to hear the answer. I hate to pull the trump card, but Bon Jovi was once considered a Hair Metal band. I don't hear anyone, (well, many) saying GnR sucks, but most people aren't saying metal. I wouldn't take the MTV Awards or Grammys as an indicator of genre.
And please, for the love of Shiva, quit using the "toured with Metallica" defense.

Not even hard rock, and no way is GNR metal - almost an insult to the genre.

http://www.metal-archives.com/search.php ?string=guns+and+roses&type=band

At 2/20/09 04:41 PM, DroopyA wrote:

This was Metallica and Guns N Roses. It could have been Metallica and Slayer... or Metallica and Anthrax... but it wasn't because metal heads wanted to see Guns N Roses more.

Big name tours have more to do with business than they do with talent or genre. It's about who's making more money at the time, and who's available. Again, this has NOTHING to do with the music itself.

Because to be Hair Metal, you need the word HAIR in there... Haven't you ever taken that test? How long was the 100 years war? What is Cat Gut made of? It's a bunch of misnomers.

It's still a form of metal. Are you implying Metallica aren't metal because the word Thrash or Speed comes first?

Gaaah... Nooooo... Ok, fuck it, I'm done point by pointing this... You asked whether people thought GnR was metal or not, and aren't listening to any of the argument.

You're not exactly hearing anything I say either. I've yet to hear you say... "good point" so from where I'm sitting, you're easly just as guilty as me. Besides, did you actually think this conversation would change anyones mind? It's the internet... and worse yet, it's Newgrounds. How serious did you think this was going to get? I just want to debate it because I'm bored and have nothing else to do. It's been a good time killer for the both of us and I'm sorry if you're getting upset instead of just having fun.

I'm responding to your question, OK? You asked people what they thought. This isn't about you. I'm not upset about this, I'm just wondering how you ask someone what they think and then get pissed because they aren't on the same page as you.

If you'd have started with "Guns and Roses is the best metal band ever"

Why would I say that? That's not true at all. In fact, that's not even what I'm trying to argue... I don't care if you think they're good, I just want you to admit that they're a metal band.

And what's with all the "Rape victim" shit?

The original artwork to the Appitite album featured a robot in a trench coat raping a helpless blond on the side of the street. The picture feaurted pantys around the ankle and everything. It caused a big controversy and some stores refused to sell the album. Other stores where preassured to place brown bags over the front of the records. It was later changed to a tattoo that Axel had previously gotten on his arm of him and his bandmates in skull form.

I think it's an important peice in the argument for them being metal as having offensive album art is usually a staple for metal bands.... where as rock groups usually aim for something more artistic or random (IE: Aerosmith with Pump). Guns N Roses took the Cannible Corpse approach here and put monsters and rape on the front of their album. When that was removed, Skulls followed. That's something metal bands do... not rock bands.

This is getting so tiresome... Ok, Pump was about as artistic as the Jonas Brothers. I'm so glad you're into all this controversy shit. I play in a band who's every song is about Necrophilia... So are we metal? Anybody can create controversy, it's easy, and sometimes lazy.

...see, as I said earlier... everyone who disagrees with me is either too young to have seen and heard GnR when it was new, or just foolish. I'll consider your lack of knowledge about the early GnR contorversy days as "foolish".

I'm older than you are.

"Over-rated"

At 2/20/09 04:40 PM, Garthredbunlove wrote: They're obviously rock. In fact, they're classic rock.

Nooooooooooo....... I don´t think so.